A little rant on how poor this "simulation" is.

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Viperguy324

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Cars- Detail is great, sound is good, overall A

Tracks- Detail is great, Glare is way too high, asphalt grip is way off (This maybe do to the BS tires) overall B

Tires- This is where things go retarded.. you don't drive a $300k car on a track with "sports" type tires ... Not to mention every tire in this game feels like it was a discount tire from china. overall F

Penalties- I thought this was the "Real Driving Simulator" ...last time I checked I didn't get a 5 sec hold for "cutting" the track on a straightaway just by touching the grass to get past slow cars.. Lets not even start with the ... you have 16 cars on the track of different makes.. if you touch them you get screwed..if they touch you.. you get screwed.. Yea try and get past that GT-R with a lotus.. I can't wait for the "Ring".. with these BS penalties it will be crap. overall F-

I my opinion the developers need to spend less time trying to keep us busy restarting a race on lap 5 because the AI gets loose and clips you causing a 5 sec cut throwing your car around the track and more time on getting the "simulation" part right.


For those of you looking for a racing simulator I suggest GTR2. For people who want to spend hours on end developing ways to bounce off cars without getting penalized I suggest GT5.


To the developers... not all of us are 14 yr old kids who don't know how a car handles. Try working on that.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
What version of the physics are you playing with, how do you have the driving aids set and most importantly what real world experience do you have in regard to the accuracy of tyre grip levels, etc.

I ask this because I fundamentally disagree with almost every point you have made in regard to the physics side of things.

By the way, while I am not the development team, just to be clear I am not a 14 year old with no idea how a car handles. Rather someone who has worked in the motor industry the majority of his adult life and with a great deal of track and proving ground experience. No game is a perfect recreation of how a car handles, but with the aids off and physics set to Pro, GT5:P does a damn good job.

I would also advise taking a look around some of the sim dedicated forums, GTR2 gets a fair degree of criticism in regard to its physics engine, particularly the level of grip offered by the tyres.
Like every normal driver, I test GTR2 2 weeks ago, and my surprise was big, after 2 corner, I press exit, and look if I'm really in Simu Mod. OMG, Yes. I can't believe it so, I decide to look the files of the game to understand why the game is so arcade.

After a short time, (because the problem is the same in the demo and I did also a patch for the demo) I decide to make a big improuvement on GTR2.

My point a view about it, is not to say GTR2 is bag or Simbin work bad, the only thing is to make the game more Real. So I think my patch is more for league who want to organise real FIA GT Championship, with realistic physics.

So sorry to tell to every body, who think GTR2 is a simu, it isn't, but I propose to you a solution. So I think I can say, if a game is real or not, because I drive on Motorsport on hight level, and I still have very good contact with some ingeneer who confirm my point of view on GTR2 compare to real car. This is why I decide to give to everybody the Patch and not only for some friend of some different League.


So I will try to explain what I did for you.

First thing: The slip curve of the tyre. So now you can't drift anymore.

Second thing: I reduce the grip of all tyre (same calcul for all), to have a correct lateral and longitunal G, compare to the real car. (in corner or on braking...)
Click to expand...
Source - http://www.racesimulations.com/GTR2/news/article/1330.html

ATTN Mods: Couldn't we have a "GTR2 physics and tire curves SUX sub-forum" ?
Click to expand...
Source - http://forum.rscnet.org/archive/index.php?t-269288.html


Scaff
 
Viperguy324
Cars- Detail is great, sound is good, overall A

Tracks- Detail is great, Glare is way too high, asphalt grip is way off (This maybe do to the BS tires) overall B

Tires- This is where things go retarded.. you don't drive a $300k car on a track with "sports" type tires ... Not to mention every tire in this game feels like it was a discount tire from china. overall F

Penalties- I thought this was the "Real Driving Simulator" ...last time I checked I didn't get a 5 sec hold for "cutting" the track on a straightaway just by touching the grass to get past slow cars.. Lets not even start with the ... you have 16 cars on the track of different makes.. if you touch them you get screwed..if they touch you.. you get screwed.. Yea try and get past that GT-R with a lotus.. I can't wait for the "Ring".. with these BS penalties it will be crap. overall F-

I my opinion the developers need to spend less time trying to keep us busy restarting a race on lap 5 because the AI gets loose and clips you causing a 5 sec cut throwing your car around the track and more time on getting the "simulation" part right.


For those of you looking for a racing simulator I suggest GTR2. For people who want to spend hours on end developing ways to bounce off cars without getting penalized I suggest GT5.


To the developers... not all of us are 14 yr old kids who don't know how a car handles. Try working on that.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

So I see you don't know how to drive.. Deal with it.
 
Scaff
What version of the physics are you playing with, how do you have the driving aids set and most importantly what real world experience do you have in regard to the accuracy of tyre grip levels, etc.

I ask this because I fundamentally disagree with almost every point you have made in regard to the physics side of things.

By the way, while I am not the development team, just to be clear I am not a 14 year old with no idea how a car handles. Rather someone who has worked in the motor industry the majority of his adult life and with a great deal of track and proving ground experience. No game is a perfect recreation of how a car handles, but with the aids off and physics set to Pro, GT5:P does a damn good job.


Scaff
Click to expand...

Well said Scaff!

Viperguy324, to be fair, I have to say your point about the tires shouldn't be warranted. Although I have to concede that the tires are perfect (not exactly possible in the near future either), but they are pretty accurate (roughly speaking). And a "$300K car," as you suggested may actually be used with "sports tires" if not N3s. Racing tires in GT are really RACING tires, not exactly for road cars, buddy. There have been extensive tests done here by members of the forum. COnsider checking them!
 
the Interceptor
Not everyone has to like this game. Go and return it, I can live with that.
Click to expand...

👍
There are hundred of post like these. I'm getting tired of them and people JUMP in after playing the game of less then a day and complain.
 
Viperguy324
Cars- Detail is great, sound is good, overall A

Tracks- Detail is great, Glare is way too high, asphalt grip is way off (This maybe do to the BS tires) overall B

Tires- This is where things go retarded.. you don't drive a $300k car on a track with "sports" type tires ... Not to mention every tire in this game feels like it was a discount tire from china. overall F

Penalties- I thought this was the "Real Driving Simulator" ...last time I checked I didn't get a 5 sec hold for "cutting" the track on a straightaway just by touching the grass to get past slow cars.. Lets not even start with the ... you have 16 cars on the track of different makes.. if you touch them you get screwed..if they touch you.. you get screwed.. Yea try and get past that GT-R with a lotus.. I can't wait for the "Ring".. with these BS penalties it will be crap. overall F-

I my opinion the developers need to spend less time trying to keep us busy restarting a race on lap 5 because the AI gets loose and clips you causing a 5 sec cut throwing your car around the track and more time on getting the "simulation" part right.


For those of you looking for a racing simulator I suggest GTR2. For people who want to spend hours on end developing ways to bounce off cars without getting penalized I suggest GT5.


To the developers... not all of us are 14 yr old kids who don't know how a car handles. Try working on that.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

Now turn pro physics on.
 
The one thing I agree with is that the penalty system can be unfair too often. Other than that GT5:P has really impressed me. I agree with Scaff completely and members on here will no I'm not someone who will rave about the game just because it called Gran Turismo, I didn't enjoy GT4 that much. Physics wise I firmly believe GT5:P is the most realistic driving game on any console, the only other game I played that I think could be more realistic is Live For Speed. GT5:P is the most accurate GT game to date.
 
Scaff
What version of the physics are you playing with, how do you have the driving aids set and most importantly what real world experience do you have in regard to the accuracy of tyre grip levels, etc.

I ask this because I fundamentally disagree with almost every point you have made in regard to the physics side of things.

By the way, while I am not the development team, just to be clear I am not a 14 year old with no idea how a car handles. Rather someone who has worked in the motor industry the majority of his adult life and with a great deal of track and proving ground experience. No game is a perfect recreation of how a car handles, but with the aids off and physics set to Pro, GT5:P does a damn good job.

I would also advise taking a look around some of the sim dedicated forums, GTR2 gets a fair degree of criticism in regard to its physics engine, particularly the level of grip offered by the tyres.

Source - http://www.racesimulations.com/GTR2/news/article/1330.html


Source - http://forum.rscnet.org/archive/index.php?t-269288.html


Scaff
Click to expand...

The actual car physics are not really my concern..it's the tires that are beyond realistic.

As for my experience.. I would say i'm a advanced track driver. Over 1000+ laps at various tracks ranging from Willow Springs to the Nordschlife.

My current track car is an '06 Spec-C (N12). On R888's
(spec can be seen on IWSTI... under VIPERGUY)


As for GTR2 ... you can adjust the file to bring the grip to reality.
 
Viperguy324
Tracks- Detail is great, Glare is way too high, asphalt grip is way off (This maybe do to the BS tires) overall B
Click to expand...
Ever seen a newly paved race track? They're pretty damn shiny. And race tracks get repaved quite often.

Tires- This is where things go retarded.. you don't drive a $300k car on a track with "sports" type tires ... Not to mention every tire in this game feels like it was a discount tire from china. overall F
Click to expand...
Sports tyres is exactly what is used on track. Think of Michelin Pilot Sport Cups or the like, those are close to S2 or S3 tyres in the game. About the grip levels, pay attention to the speedometer while you're cornering. Then think about driving those corners in real life at that speed. I bet there would be sliding but in the game you simply don't realize how fast you're going which results in you overdriving the car heavily and then accusing the physics.

Penalties- I thought this was the "Real Driving Simulator" ...last time I checked I didn't get a 5 sec hold for "cutting" the track on a straightaway just by touching the grass to get past slow cars..
Click to expand...
Neither did I. We must be playing different games. And overtaking usually can be done entirely on the track, especially if on a straight.

Lets not even start with the ... you have 16 cars on the track of different makes.. if you touch them you get screwed..if they touch you.. you get screwed..
Click to expand...
"Touch" is quite a bit overexaggerated, you need quite a crash to get that penalty. And the point is to pass cleanly or with only slight nudging. If you can't do it, it's not the fault of the game.

Yea try and get past that GT-R with a lotus.. I can't wait for the "Ring".. with these BS penalties it will be crap. overall F-
Click to expand...
Easy as hell. Shall I make a video for you about overtaking a GT-R with a Lotus? And about the Nürburgring, it isn't a rallycross track. It's meant to be driven along the black stuff like every other track. And as far as I know that causes no penalties.

I my opinion the developers need to spend less time trying to keep us busy restarting a race on lap 5 because the AI gets loose and clips you causing a 5 sec cut throwing your car around the track and more time on getting the "simulation" part right.
Click to expand...
In my opinion some of the players need to spend less time restarting those races and more time learning to pass the opponents. About the simulation part, I point to what Scaff said.

For those of you looking for a racing simulator I suggest GTR2. For people who want to spend hours on end developing ways to bounce off cars without getting penalized I suggest GT5.
Click to expand...
Oddly enough I didn't need any time to develop those ways. I just drove on the part of the track where there were no AI cars. I understand that it's too much for some of us though.

The bottom line. Unless you're playing this with Pro physics, all aids off and a G25 wheel you don't know what you're missing.
 
I personally agree with him when it comes to the penalties. Sadly we will have to wait until damage is implemented for us to see this change. Tire wise: I wonder if there is a game that allows the player to test the different models of tires available today. I know this could come off as boring to some, but I wouldnt mind if a driving game implemented tire sims. Thats my thoughts. hpe I dont get flamed too.
 
un_peacekeeper
Well said Scaff!

Viperguy324, to be fair, I have to say your point about the tires shouldn't be warranted. Although I have to concede that the tires are perfect (not exactly possible in the near future either), but they are pretty accurate (roughly speaking). And a "$300K car," as you suggested may actually be used with "sports tires" if not N3s. Racing tires in GT are really RACING tires, not exactly for road cars, buddy. There have been extensive tests done here by members of the forum. COnsider checking them!
Click to expand...

Have you been to a track before? .... you will not see a F430 on anything other then cut slicks.
 
Viperguy324
For those of you looking for a racing simulator I suggest GTR2.
Click to expand...

This confirms you have no idea of real driving physics nor a feeling for that.

Driving GTR2 just made me angry. I bought it, tried it and noticed it was wasted money.
 
So, then drive with S3's in GT5:P, they simulate cut slicks. The R compounds simulate slicks. And yes, I have seen an F430 at a track on stock regular tyre's. For someone who's done 1000+ laps at various track (and I presume you do mean in real life) I'm very suprised from what you're saying.

Are you complaining that the tyre's arn't realisitc, or that the right tyre compounds arn't available? Because you do know that you can change your tyre's in GT5:P right. N1's are economy tryre's for regular cars, N2's are sports tyre's for sports cars and N3's are performance tyre's for high perofrmance cars. All are supposed to simulate the type of tyre that comes on their comparative car as standard. The S tyre are closer to cut slicks, and the R tyre's are full racing slicks.
 
Greycap
Ever seen a newly paved race track? They're pretty damn shiny. And race tracks get repaved quite often.


Sports tyres is exactly what is used on track. Think of Michelin Pilot Sport Cups or the like, those are close to S2 or S3 tyres in the game. About the grip levels, pay attention to the speedometer while you're cornering. Then think about driving those corners in real life at that speed. I bet there would be sliding but in the game you simply don't realize how fast you're going which results in you overdriving the car heavily and then accusing the physics.


Neither did I. We must be playing different games. And overtaking usually can be done entirely on the track, especially if on a straight.


"Touch" is quite a bit overexaggerated, you need quite a crash to get that penalty. And the point is to pass cleanly or with only slight nudging. If you can't do it, it's not the fault of the game.


Easy as hell. Shall I make a video for you about overtaking a GT-R with a Lotus? And about the Nürburgring, it isn't a rallycross track. It's meant to be driven along the black stuff like every other track. And as far as I know that causes no penalties.


In my opinion some of the players need to spend less time restarting those races and more time learning to pass the opponents. About the simulation part, I point to what Scaff said.


Oddly enough I didn't need any time to develop those ways. I just drove on the part of the track where there were no AI cars. I understand that it's too much for some of us though.

The bottom line. Unless you're playing this with Pro physics, all aids off and a G25 wheel you don't know what you're missing.
Click to expand...

ok so now the tracks are fresh.. ok

Please send me a video of you driving any lotus in the S10 race and getting on the podium without using the other cars as rails.

and as for the touch comment .. yes..touch.. I was passing the vette on the outside when he leaned on my for a sec and you know what comes next...
 
Viperguy324
The actual car physics are not really my concern..it's the tires that are beyond realistic.

As for my experience.. I would say i'm a advanced track driver. Over 1000+ laps at various tracks ranging from Willow Springs to the Nordschlife.

My current track car is an '06 Spec-C (N12). On R888's
(spec can be seen on IWSTI... under VIPERGUY)


As for GTR2 ... you can adjust the file to bring the grip to reality.
Click to expand...
huh, you go to IWSTI.com also, *high five*
OT- I have not done track times on a closed circuit (mostly just freeway onramps) and i have to say sometimes the tyres on gt5p dont grip enough for how a real sports car (STI and a 335i) handle at high cornering speed, or maybe im just missing the G's in gt5p and compensating by saying that it feels wierd?
 
Like I said, I've seen Ferrari's at track days on performance road tyre's.

Ofcourse you don't see them actually race with them. But then I can't recall too many event races where you use regular road tyres in GT5:P either. Most races put you on S-tyres which are more like cut slicks.
 
Dave A
So, then drive with S3's in GT5:P, they simulate cut slicks. The R compounds simulate slicks. And yes, I have seen an F430 at a track on stock regular tyre's. For someone who's done 1000+ laps at various track (and I presume you do mean in real life) I'm very suprised from what you're saying.

Are you complaining that the tyre's arn't realisitc, or that the right tyre compounds arn't available? Because you do know that you can change your tyre's in GT5:P right. N1's are economy tryre's for regular cars, N2's are sports tyre's for sports cars and N3's are performance tyre's for high perofrmance cars. All are supposed to simulate the type of tyre that comes on their comparative car as standard. The S tyre are closer to cut slicks, and the R tyre's are full racing slicks.
Click to expand...

And this F430 had someone that knew how to drive? I know you can change tires... problem is you cant choose in most races.

Dave A
Like I said, I've seen Ferrari's at track days on performance road tyre's.

Ofcourse you don't see them actually race with them. But then I can't recall too many event races where you use regular road tyres in GT5:P either. Most races put you on S-tyres which are more like cut slicks.
Click to expand...

And have you driven on cut slicks before in real life? ... they are not far off from full slicks.
 
So, in most races your given S tyre's, which offer a lot more grip than N tyre's. On a F430 the N3's are what represent what the car would come with from the dealer, the S tyre's are the performance compounds designed for tracking the car and racing and the R tyre's a refull on slicks.

And cut slicks are a long way off full slicks, hence the reason some are road legal and no full slicks are. A full slick offers far less control when grip is compromised, they are poor before they warm up and they are poor in anything but the dry but amazingly fast in the dry.
 
Did anyone mention that time trials are limited to S2s?

Duphman
Thats not a Challenge Stradale. Its a 430 Scuderia.
Click to expand...

Bah! My bad. It was spied and was initially thought that it was the CS, then Ferrari came out and released the Scuderia. Sorry.
 
The penalty system of Prologue is pretty off, there's little to discuss about that. Still, there always are many ways to bring up criticism, and this one is not the right one if you ask me. You get what you give.
 
I always thought racing game tracks were too shiny....until I took these photos. Now I think they are spot on.

 
Dave A
So, in most races your given S tyre's, which offer a lot more grip than N tyre's. On a F430 the N3's are what represent what the car would come with from the dealer, the S tyre's are the performance compounds designed for tracking the car and racing and the R tyre's a refull on slicks.

And cut slicks are a long way off full slicks, hence the reason some are road legal and no full slicks are. A full slick offers far less control when grip is compromised, they are poor before they warm up and they are poor in anything but the dry but amazingly fast in the dry.
Click to expand...

Thats my point.. would you drive your big$$$$$ car off the lot and take it racing with the same street tires on ??? no .. you would go no less then fresh semi's
 
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