A new challenge

[LeGeNd-1]

No. That's impossible for a car to have a zero value. That's another GT2 oddity.

It's the RX-7 in GT1 that has zero values, I don't know about the one in GT2. A rare oddity in GT1 I should say.

My take on those numbers are they represent downforce values, rather than drag. The reason is, many cars that have a typical, somewhat boxy or pedestrian-friendly body usually have low numbers...typically 0.10 to 0.15 up front and 0.19 to 0.25 in the rear. Cars with a sleeker appearance, small spoilers and wings will have higher numbers. And those with massive wings, front air dams and fender flares (full race cars) start with the highest numbers. If it were drag, the opposite would be true. Real-life cars with alot of frontal area (which creates the most drag) have higher values than sleeker cars. 💡

Good point with the roadcars 👍. Although on racecars wings also create a lot of drag, which may explain the large numbers if it represents drag coefficient. I agree with you though, most probably it represents arbitary downforce values. Is it still the same in later GTs?

But the numbers don't represent absolute real-life downforce values 100% accurately in my opinion, they are just PD's system of how airflow works within the game. They do resemble real-life, though, it's just not 100% accurate.

Agree with this too 👍. How do they measure downforce in real life by the way? I've sometimes heard downforce expressed in kilograms for some racecars. Wait.....this could be another explanation 💡! What if the downforce value in GT represents the downwards weight (in tonnes probably) exerted by the wing? This also makes sense because front values are always lower than rear values, both in GT and real life.

This thread is turning into a physics lecture methinks .

 

[A.A.Z.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downforce
The formula given there is quite easy actually.
LeGeNd-1, as long as this is a force, it can be measured not only in Newtons (N = Kg * m / s^2), but also in kiloponds, or kilogram-forces (1 kp = 1 Kg * g = 1 Kg * 9.8 m / s^2), which is defined as the force exerted by Earth's gravity on one kilogram of mass. That's indeed more handful to use when measuring downforce at high speeds than Newtons

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Thanks for the wiki link, that explains everything 👍. So I guess they just take the datas needed and use the formula to calculate the amount of downforce...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

LeGeNd-1, oh I see. It's the RX-7 from GT1.

To answer your question, NO that's one of the things they dropped in later games No stock downforce values are shown.

If you have a car with a full racing kit (modifiable) it does show them, though. In GT4, when you buy a wing for a car, the values are shown from 0 to 30, but full racing cars have values similar to those in GT1 and GT2 (0.34 as a minimum value for instance).

I'm not sure if they have downforce values in GT5P. I did read somewhere that they did bring back power & torque graphs, tho...but I asked people in that forum if they're shown in detail, and nobody answered me. Because that forum hasn't got as many tech-heads like we are.

 

[A.A.Z.]

I'm not sure if they have downforce values in GT5P. I did read somewhere that they did bring back power & torque graphs, tho...but i asked people in that forum if they're shown in detail, and nobody answered me. Because that forum hasn't got as many tech-heads like we are.

Actually this is the most disappointing thing. I mean, why do they drop that stuff? Is it very difficult to implement as some additional info (obviously the necessary data is already in the game internally)? No it isn't! Do people get annoyed by its presence in the game? No! On the other hand, its abscense makes the game look and feel more arcadish (god I hate those "Power: -- Torque: -- Mass: --" instead of real numbers). Hasn't KY once said that he wants this game to be an encyclopaedia? Then why do they keep dropping such things? Of course young people won't ever know this scene at all, if the only game that is pretending to be a real racing sim seems to get duller and duller. What are they supposed to get the knowledge from? Maybe from those video magazines in Japanese? Or from Top Gear?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeah, I know. GT4 brought power graphs back, for instance, but they're hard to read. It's just 2 lines (torque and power) and a vague area where it has rpms and power, but you can't plot how power builds or how much peak power there is like you can in GT1 and 2. 👎 Like if wanna know how much torque my VW Golf GTi is making at 3,000 rpms, I have to "guesstimate" it Some people may go "oh, who cares, Parnelli", but this is important stuff to anyone who's ever had a car (real-life) hooked up to a dyno.

And then there's also the gearing charts. Awesome to know how much potential my car's engine has in each gear, even if it's just theoretical. Kazunori, ARE YOU OUT THERE? We WANT CHARTS & GRAPHS!

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Yeah, the power/torque & gear ratio charts are two of the things I miss the most. There's a power/torque chart in GT2, but it's so small you can hardly read the numbers 👎. In GT1 everything is so blatantly displayed you can't miss it even if you try. In that respect, NFS UG2 is better than GT2 because it had a full dyno mode, complete with detailed power/torque charts. You can even change the engine and turbo mapping with great detail. Sadly, these technical things only stop there, once you're out on track everything goes back to arcade style.....

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I'm fine with the GT2 power graphs. Yeah they're a bit smaller, but at least they're there! I could use them reliably. 👍 First time I fired up GT2, I expected they would be there, and sure enough they were.

But the first time I fired up GT3 and saw no power graphs, I was PISSED. I was real mad And like I said, in GT4, once I finally figured out how to find the graphs (they're hidden, you gotta press "start" when you're in the tuning screen) I found they were useless. IT's like whoa....BIG DEAL....two f:censored:ing squiggly lines. How am I supposed to READ WHAT THEY IMPLY IF THERE'S NO PLOT AREA????

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Yeah I can imagine that would really piss me off too. Good thing I stuck with GT1 & 2 all these years then.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

GT3 & 4 have their advantages, too. In some respects, they're certainly better than the originals. But that only made me want to see improvements over GT1 & 2 all the more, know what I mean. Like if it was done good in this game, why can't it be done BETTER in the next?

GT5 better have it all man. Kazunori, are you out there?

 

[black supra]

what about GT 6... that is, if there will be a GT 6.

but wghat will that be like.....

 

[Parnelli Bone]

By the time GT6 comes out, TV sets will be obsolete. Instead, PD will install the game module into your head, that was the racing will be as reallisitc as possible.