A pseudo-scientific test: Comparing the Le Mans cars on Sarthe II

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 4' started by Zardoz, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. DuckRacer

    DuckRacer Premium

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    Zardoz, that's more intresting info too. :idea: This thread definately needs to be stickied.
    By the way, this is the best write-up I have ever read. :tup:

    Duck7892
     
  2. FoolKiller

    FoolKiller Premium

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    This is great info. Thanks a lot. This explains why I am having such trouble. I should have known better than to assume that the best cars in real life should be the best in the game.

    Mental Note: Buy any and every car with a PD, GT, PS, or Sony logo, especially if it is named after that brand. :ouch:
     
  3. gumpy

    gumpy

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    I can accidentally add some findings to this research.

    I took a mental note of the gear settings for the Minolta but failed to remember what other settings you had changed.

    I did some testing and got the same max A Spec speed so I let Bob loose last night and found his lap times were about 3-4 secs slower and he could only go 6 laps before his rear tires were shot.

    When I left for work this morning he was about to lap the 787B for the third time with about 8 hours remaining so there should be no dramas when I get home.

    Bob spins out on the main straight about twice per 12 laps.

    Anyway I wondered what I was doing different.

    The differences are:

    Brake balance - I have stock
    ASM/TCS I have stock

    These are costing me 3-4 secs per lap and 1 lap less per pit stop.

    If I were to fine tune the settings I would also raise the ride height a little (I think the bumps on the straight are an issue and I would shorten the gears a little (for Bob only).

    This last one is for this reason:

    When I watch Bob and switch to rear view it sounds like he keeps changing between the top two gears on the straight as if he will not put his foot down enough to keep it in top gear. It may be that by shortening the gears it may help Bob. I will test over the weekend.
     
  4. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    Excellent write up.

    Out of those cars my best that I have is my minolta, and it is currently doing the 24 hours of Nurburgring :)
     
  5. phattboy

    phattboy

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    Now here is a load of VERY useful information and well put together!!! Nice JOB!!! :tup:

    phattboy
     
  6. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    Well, today is my test of your information now Zardoz :)

    I'm doing the 24hrs of lemans 2 right now with my XJR9, my best car out of all the ones you tested without many miles on it (My minolta has over 3,000.)

    It's in the lead on lap 5 :)
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake

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    great info, that must have took some time :)
     
  8. M5_dude

    M5_dude

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    Great to see another ALMS fan on the forum. Grand Prix of Atlanta was great, I enjoyed it a little more than the 12 Hours of Sebring. Were you surprised with the R8 winning after Dyson Racing taking pole position to start? I was. Anyways good to see another ALMS fan on here.
     
  9. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    Great! Let us know how your Bob does with the Jag. What are his stats?


    .
     
  10. FormulaGT

    FormulaGT

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    I used the Plyaystation 2 Pesky. it's a damn good car, but i think you may have gotten the '03 model confused with '04 because the tire wear with R2/R3 is quite bad (lasting only 5 laps). it may just be my B-spec driver (which is strange because he is alsmot 8000 points). i also found it quite suprising that when i did the race, 2nd place was the 787B ahead of the Sauber (by 1 lap). The AI controlled 787B seemed to last 10 or 11 laps between stops!

    Also, has anyone been severely affected by the drive-into-the-wall-on-the-straight glitch? I know i was...like once every 2 laps!
     
  11. Group C Fanatic

    Group C Fanatic

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    I have to say, you're spot on with these two points. Why is the 88C-V (or the Minolta as everyone seems to call it) among the best LM cars in GT4? I couldn't understand it either. And I agree, the Sauber was indeed hyped up and still is. I think it's just because it's hard to acquire.

    Anyway, great write up, will come in useful. Great to see so many LM fans on GTP.
     
  12. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    Looks like you reversed the tires. You should have had an R3/R2 combo, with the Mediums on the front, not the rear. Five laps with Mediums on the rear is about right for the '04 Playstation car.

    In my test the '03 Courage car went seven laps on R3/R3. The '04 Playstation car, with more power, had to have R3/R2 to go seven.

    Your experience with the drive-into-the-wall glitch is the worst I've heard of. With me, it happened on the first lap with the '04 Pesky, so I re-started the race, and I never saw it happen again.

    .
     
  13. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    I won yesterday on lap 443.

    His stats are 8245, 96, 82 and 81.

    I was ahead by somewhere around 4 or 5 laps, and something I noticed that caught my attention is that my Jag never once left the track or spun out, while the 6th place XJR9 would regularly go off on one of the turns right after the start/finish line. Also the Minolta and the Sauber were dead even the entire race, as soon as one would start to pull away somehow the other would catch up :)

    I 'drove' the last lap and I was ALL over the place because my Jag was in DIRE need of a chassis refresh! lol
     
  14. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    My b spec guy never once ever dove into the wall.

    However, I have 2 things going for me:

    1 - I took Ed (Still in drivers ed, never passed) for 2 laps in lemans practice before the actual enduro with the exact same settings.

    2 - Ed has pretty good stats (read the above post)
     
  15. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    That's exactly the number of laps my 4-hour test extrapolated out to for 24 hours!

    Your Bob has much better stats than mine, yet they apparently got the Jag around equally as well. I wonder what the significance of that is?
     
  16. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    You're right!

    I must say that for the first 10 or so hours I would hit the 'ok' when it would pit, and I did it out of habit instead of thinking, so my results are a slight bit skewed b/c I know you didn't hit 'ok.' However the difference is marginal anyway and I only did it for less than 1/2 the race.

    The significance could be that my b spec guy never slammed a wall near the chicane, never spun out or went off course...
     
  17. FormulaGT

    FormulaGT

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    That's interesting, i was sure the tires were the right way round...oh well i won anyway. I had to resort to using RSH on the rear and RH on the front just to keep ahead of the 787B who seemed oddly fast. this combination seemed to work well, but came extremely close to running out of fuel, although i thought it was better than losing my three lap lead.

    the glitch is probably the reason i didn't get a bigger winning margin. although when i restarted the race it still happened, so i just raced anyway and won reasonably comfortably. As you said in the guide the GT40 was hopless, it crashed into one of the sandtraps and never got out, running out of fuel in the process.

    Didn't mention this before, but GREAT guide Zardoz!
     
  18. SilverEclipse01

    SilverEclipse01

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    Awesome effort on the comparison, Zardoz. Thanks for sharing. I too enjoy the LMP cars, but usually tend to stick with the GT and the GTS types. I just think it sucks that the Vertigo and the GT40 absolutely have to be tuned in order to even be competitive with the other uber GT class/LM "dream" cars (especially on certain tracks).

    Oh well. I needed to learn how to tune eventually. I guess my button-mashing past is catching up to me. That's probably where B-Spec Bob comes in, being able to drive the finesse cars until I can catch up in skill and ability. At least I can drive the dang cars at full throttle down a straight and overtake properly! Ha! Take that Bob!
     
  19. njesper

    njesper

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    Excuse me, if this has been answered in another post (have checked but couldnt find it)

    1. Could you specify the result of this wear and tear? How does it make your car weaker? do you loose horsepower and/or does the car skid more/feel heavier?

    2. Is there a cure for a car, that has been worn out? or do you have to sell it, and buy a new one?

    3. What about oil change? If you change the oil before the endurance race, does anybody know how much time into the race, the oil reaches its worst again?


    Hope somebody wants to help out yet another gt4 fanatic, who could probably find all the answers on page 32 in three different threads :)

    Best regards,
    Jesper
    -Denmark-
     
  20. hitman146

    hitman146

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    this is one of the best write ups i´ve seen

    bet that took long!

    thx
     
  21. VyPeR

    VyPeR

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    Yes, much agreed. In GT3, It was the R390, 787B, or the GT1 that was always the dominant cars in racing. Is PD showing favoritism?

    The Sauber C9 was one of the fastest cars ever to compete in the Lemans 24hr. race. It hit almost up to 240 mph on the Mulsanne straight, also winning the race in '89.
     
  22. barryl85

    barryl85

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  23. Bentley Boy

    Bentley Boy

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    agreed with the sauber but also why is the nissan so damn quick, it never won le mans in its time i dont think? if porsche had its old group c le mans on the game it would certainty kick ass
     
  24. zoxxy

    zoxxy (Banned)

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    Your post's are always looking so energetic! :D

    Btw, really great W.U!
     
  25. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    Very nice writeup, however you did something I would think you'd have been better off not doing. Thats the extra rigidity, I'm not 100% sure if it will slow down your lap times, but on all the LMP, GT1 and group C cars I did it to became harder to control and more prone to spinning which may be part of the reason your B-Spec driver couldn't control the Vertigo and GT40.
     
  26. gumpy

    gumpy

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    1,119
    What I have found is that on some cars it helps B-spec Bob keep his handling tight in the latter stages. If you do not have the rigidity the handling will deteriorate quicker.

    I have not had problems with spinning only understeer.

    If the car has a tendency to understeer then be careful. I would never do it to a 4WD for example.

    I think it would help with cars that have stiff suspension but a tendencey to oversteer.

    I still have not A-specced any race longer than 1 hours in GT4 but I have taken over from Bob late in a race and found it hard. The chassis rigidity should help with this.
     
  27. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    So far the "Increase Rigidity" option has improved the handling of every car I tested it on, including the Le Mans cars.

    It knocked about 1.2 seconds off the lap time of the '03 Pesky on R246, and about 1.7 seconds off the Jag's time. It reduced the understeer of the Pesky, and reduced the oversteer of the Jag. Go figure.

    (I love the way the scrolling message says "be careful". Since it can't be uninstalled, how can we be careful? You buy it, you live with it, period.)
     
  28. Zardoz

    Zardoz

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    2,208

    1. The handling of the car becomes erratic and unpredictable. It will wander around on the straight, and be generally more difficult to control.

    2. There is indeed a cure. In the tune shop for the car, in the "Other" section, is the Rigidity Refresher Plan. It restores the car to as-new condition. It does not last, however, and should be re-applied whenever it becomes available again (check-mark disappears). I've seen this happen in as little as 400 miles on some cars, and some say that rough driving, with lots of collisions, hastens its availability.

    3. No data on this, but it does have an effect. You'll note a drop in power as the race progresses. Always change the oil and buy the RRP after a long race.
     
  29. njesper

    njesper

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    Thanks Zardoz,

    I'll keep those comments in mind. Hopefully my plan of a-speccing the whole le mans 24 hours race will be possible, even if the cars starts going wild on the straight. I'll set the car a 10mm higher, so that it will not touch the ground accidentially on the mulsannes straight.

    :)

    Jesper
     
  30. -= XplosiV =-

    -= XplosiV =-

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    Just a quick question, the Playstation Pescarolo C60 '04 was tested on pace setting '3' - is setting '4' too much or do the tires give out too much that you have to resort to setting '3' when you have less grip ?