A Review - By A Racing Game Fan

Too add to the G25 points, I just got my G25 2 days ago...stepped up form the DFP and I must say there is a big difference between the two as the G25 adds another sense of realism when using the clutch.

My lap times have dropped by a few secs which is due to me having to adjust to using the clutch, but I do notice at times I'm faster thru turns because I can control my speed better .

Don't cheat yourself from a great experience by not getting a G25
 
When i bought the driving force pro for GT4 i was shocked at how much better it made the game...

Driving hard round the track you could feel the steering going light when you went past the point of adhesion by the tyres
 
Going off topic a bit...I wonder why PD has never done a PC version of GT?
It is not like the PC is a competitor to the PS2/3 and imagine how good a PC version could be.
Super high res texture, high resolution (1920x1200 or higher), the possiblity of user created mods, tracks and cars.
A out and out SIM like GT would do very well in the PC market and would probably sell by the bucket load as there very few decent racing games on the PC.
I remember reading an interview with the Producer of GT (sorry I forget his name) and he said he would love to do a PC version. So my guess is Sony are saying "the computer says no!!" to a PC version :)
 
morpheus9394
Going off topic a bit...I wonder why PD has never done a PC version of GT?
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They want to keep it exclusive and PC is too small market.

A out and out SIM like GT would do very well in the PC market and would probably sell by the bucket load as there very few decent racing games on the PC.
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Few? Well depends what you mean, maybe few "casual" racing games but plenty of sims. PC is still the platform where the main sim racing genre is.

I remember reading an interview with the Producer of GT (sorry I forget his name) and he said he would love to do a PC version. So my guess is Sony are saying "the computer says no!!" to a PC version :)
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Somehow I doubt that. Might have been very old interview?
 
I've always wanted a GT-style PC game, and even moreso a GT-style arcade game. Neither are likely to happen.
 
That Youtube video posted where the guy talks about the grass is a typical GT review, this is a racing simulation game and so the focus should be on that, yet here he is talking about grass, in another video the maker of the game was talking about the stitching in the ferrari! All this focus on graphics should only really come about when you know you have an amazing game with excellent pyshics, sound, AI etc (as it claims to be the benchmark for simulation), this graphic indulgence should be the "tinkering" once the main game is 100% perfect, and yet this seems not to be the case, as once again it appears he has let his love of graphics/photography overtake the real need to produce (not perfect) a decent simulation experience.

Sure it looks nice but it seems once again the emphasis has been put on the graphics and everything else has suffered. GT seems to be the benchmark in graphics and not simulation, the biggest thing that needed work in my opinion was always the AI (has been for many years), yet reading what you guys think of it leaves me slightly dissapointed that yet again it fails to deliver, I hope the final version will be good, I won't be getting GT: Prologue despite buying every other GT that ever came out previously.


a slighly miffed, long time gt fan.
 
That is the single most disappointing element in the GT series and judging by GT5P things won't be that much better in GT5.
Then again we do have probably another 8-12mths before GT5 is released in Japan so there is still plenty of time to improve the AI.
At the moment the AI is very relax and easy to deal with. They just stick to the racing line, very rarely make mistakes, usually only if you force them into a mistake by bumping into them and pushing them off the road.
You can pass the cars very easily and they make no effort to block you or to try any overtake back, unless you make a mistake and drive slow enough for them to past you naturally.
The AI reminds of arcade racers, like Sega Rally, where you start at the back of the field and as long as you drive well and don't make too many mistakes you will get first place by the end of the race. There is not actually "racing" involved. It is more like timetrails with traffic to get in your way.
It is a really shame that with all the PS3s processing power we still stuck with the same old AI.
The graphics are ....ing amazing though :)
 
i have to agree....

Just had my copy delivered today. Have done approx 2 hours play, nearly completed B licence and it's very boring up to now.

It feels all very lifeless at the moment. Sedate is the word.

Im hoping the high end cars will bring some life it to this.
 
It will get better I asure you...

But what can I say...?

Reading through this thread I'd say PD and SONY's competition must really having a ball;

Yet GT5Prologue is such an AMAZING game, by far the best thing PD's ever made (in terms of pretty much everything, really, even though it's a small game-for now-it integrates into the gameplay free races, races specific types of car, mission races, races against the clock/licenses, arcade races. time trial, amazing menus, great tracks-even the Daytona oval is fun-, a penalty system that works, unparalleled graphics, GTTV, Ferraris,I could go on forever...
And remember there's still a lot to come

So maybe the competition is not having such a great time, maybe all I'm seeing, reading through this thread, is a bunch of desperate little soldiers shooting in all directions

... and obviously missing

RUI
 
Wolfe
I've always wanted a GT-style PC game, and even moreso a GT-style arcade game. Neither are likely to happen.
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By arcade you reffer to actual arcades, and not arcade like gameplay right?

Yeah, it'd be pretty sweet if PD sold complete packages as arcades with a motion simulator to boot, 3 screens and online, they could limit the arcade to certain features, and even make it compatible with the PS3 version for online races...

It's nice to dream.
 
m_a_r_s_h_a_l_l
i have to agree....

Just had my copy delivered today. Have done approx 2 hours play, nearly completed B licence and it's very boring up to now.

It feels all very lifeless at the moment. Sedate is the word.

Im hoping the high end cars will bring some life it to this.
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I really dont like driving all the slow cars either but hang in there, it is worth it.

and if you get the good cars and you still think the game is boring then you should donate to someone on this forum who will appreciate it.
 
morpheus9394
That is the single most disappointing element in the GT series and judging by GT5P things won't be that much better in GT5.
Then again we do have probably another 8-12mths before GT5 is released in Japan so there is still plenty of time to improve the AI.
At the moment the AI is very relax and easy to deal with. They just stick to the racing line, very rarely make mistakes, usually only if you force them into a mistake by bumping into them and pushing them off the road.
You can pass the cars very easily and they make no effort to block you or to try any overtake back, unless you make a mistake and drive slow enough for them to past you naturally.
The AI reminds of arcade racers, like Sega Rally, where you start at the back of the field and as long as you drive well and don't make too many mistakes you will get first place by the end of the race. There is not actually "racing" involved. It is more like timetrails with traffic to get in your way.
It is a really shame that with all the PS3s processing power we still stuck with the same old AI.
The graphics are ....ing amazing though :)
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The AI is really as smart as I want the AI to be. I like winning the races and getting all the cars unlocked but I dont want it to be handed to me.

GT5 prologue will soon have the best AI possible, ANOTHER INTELLIGENT HUMAN. I really expect the best racing to be online. GT has a huge fanbase so dont think that there will be a shortage of competition
 
Another gripe I have with GT is the lack of accurate sounds, for example I never heard an anti-lag valve in GT nor any decent tyre sounds, not to mention engine/exhaust/dumpvalve/turbo etc replicated to a good standard. graphically the game looks nice (looks like an upgraded gt4 in my opinion) , I remember a couple of years ago we were talking about these blue ray discs and how much space they have on them and that there would be no excuse to not have decent high quality car sounds, and yet it seems we are still falling short of what it should be, it's like gt4 deja vu again, so come on give us some decent bloody sounds for once! on that note can anyone upload, or point me to any videos that showcase the sounds in gtp?

I hope there is not a massive rush to get this game out if it means the game will suffer, I'll happily wait till well into 2009 if it meant we would get the game that truly respresents the ps3, anyone with me?
 
There is not actually "racing" involved. It is more like timetrails with traffic to get in your way.
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That's exactly the problem with the GT series: I described it in another thread as "timetrials with moving obstacles". Lack of variation in the AI, lack of decent collision physics, lack of damage, makes for boring racing. I've been so hoping that PD would make substantial improvements in these areas with GT5.
 
Biggles
That's exactly the problem with the GT series: I described it in another thread as "timetrials with moving obstacles". Lack of variation in the AI, lack of decent collision physics, lack of damage, makes for boring racing. I've been so hoping that PD would make substantial improvements in these areas with GT5.
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what i don't completely understand is how varied you want the cars to be. any racer will follow the racing line. you also see some overtaking taking place and i've seen cars make mistakes. i think the flaw that is in gt is that while you are at the back of the pack and clearly not the slowest driver, all the other cars are fairly much ordered from fastest to slowest. what is needed is another 2-3 cars that are back in the field to push forward and overtake more than just one car.
 
what i don't completely understand is how varied you want the cars to be. any racer will follow the racing line. you also see some overtaking taking place and i've seen cars make mistakes. i think the flaw that is in gt is that while you are at the back of the pack and clearly not the slowest driver, all the other cars are fairly much ordered from fastest to slowest. what is needed is another 2-3 cars that are back in the field to push forward and overtake more than just one car.
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To approximate a "real" driver there have to be mistakes & variations in the driving line - do you always follow exactly the same line around the course? - & reactions by the other AI cars to those mistakes & variations. Then you have to react to those various mistakes & variations & the AI cars react to that etc. Now you've got a race.

In GT4 the AI cars would basically follow exactly the same line every time, allowing you to know, in advance, exactly what they are going to do & plan your line accordingly. That's why it's like a "time trial with moving obstacles" or "time trial with traffic" rather than actual racing. Still fun, but not nearly as interesting or challenging.

I know there are limits to what is possible, but it's clear that PD hadn't even made an effort in that direction up to GT4, & I'm not sure it's much different in GT5:P from what I've seen...
 
Biggles
To approximate a "real" driver there have to be mistakes & variations in the driving line - do you always follow exactly the same line around the course? - & reactions by the other AI cars to those mistakes & variations. Then you have to react to those various mistakes & variations & the AI cars react to that etc. Now you've got a race.

In GT4 the AI cars would basically follow exactly the same line every time, allowing you to know, in advance, exactly what they are going to do & plan your line accordingly. That's why it's like a "time trial with moving obstacles" or "time trial with traffic" rather than actual racing. Still fun, but not nearly as interesting or challenging.

I know there are limits to what is possible, but it's clear that PD hadn't even made an effort in that direction up to GT4, & I'm not sure it's much different in GT5:P from what I've seen...
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You hit the nail on the head my friend. Golly good show!!
I will give you an example of a situation that actually happened in a racing I was playing this afternoon and this is the suit of thing I want to see happen in GT5......
I was in second place pushing hard to try and pass the first place guy. The first place guy was pushing hard to try and shake me off his tail. He broke too late for a corner and went onto the sand trap. I also broke to hard and hit the sand but managed to avoid hitting him. The third place guy overtook both of us.....this carried out for the two laps before my skill and knowledge of the track improved and I pulled away on the last lap.
The race was exciting a fun and every race in this race so far has been like that and the game in question is.................Need for Speed Pro Street.
Yes I know, it is not in the same league as GT5 but they have certainly got the AI right. The CPU drivers push hard, make mistakes, protect their line, go off the line to attempt to push you, brake late....the whole works and that's the kind of thing I want for GT5 races.
The thought of that kind of AI with GT5 amazing graphics and great courses and amazing roster of cars to drive just send tingles down my spine but the thought of GT5 graphics with GT4 AI gives me chills for the wrong reason.
<praying>"Please PD, I hope the AI in GT5P is just old code and the real super advance AI code is sitting on a debug PS3 being tweaked and improved in time for the full game next Xmas. I promise I won't pay that Forza pooh on that terrible Xcock pee60 too much. And I promise to buy a decent steering wheel for your wonderful creation and I promise to give to charity and promise not to laugh too loudly when Arsenal beat Spurs 2-1 at the footy...AMEN!!"
 
morpheus9394
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Golly good show!!
I will give you an example of a situation that actually happened in a racing I was playing this afternoon and this is the suit of thing I want to see happen in GT5......
I was in second place pushing hard to try and pass the first place guy. The first place guy was pushing hard to try and shake me off his tail. He broke too late for a corner and went onto the sand trap. I also broke to hard and hit the sand but managed to avoid hitting him. The third place guy overtook both of us.....this carried out for the two laps before my skill and knowledge of the track improved and I pulled away on the last lap.
The race was exciting a fun and every race in this race so far has been like that and the game in question is.................Need for Speed Pro Street.
Yes I know, it is not in the same league as GT5 but they have certainly got the AI right. The CPU drivers push hard, make mistakes, protect their line, go off the line to attempt to push you, brake late....the whole works and that's the kind of thing I want for GT5 races.
The thought of that kind of AI with GT5 amazing graphics and great courses and amazing roster of cars to drive just send tingles down my spine but the thought of GT5 graphics with GT4 AI gives me chills for the wrong reason.
<praying>"Please PD, I hope the AI in GT5P is just old code and the real super advance AI code is sitting on a debug PS3 being tweaked and improved in time for the full game next Xmas. I promise I won't pay that Forza pooh on that terrible Xcock pee60 too much. And I promise to buy a decent steering wheel for your wonderful creation and I promise to give to charity and promise not to laugh too loudly when Arsenal beat Spurs 2-1 at the footy...AMEN!!"
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:D :lol: :D: That made me laugh. So true tho....
 
Just finished reading the whole thread, hadn't checked in in a couple of days. Excellent discussion.

I am not a hardcore gamer and the only reason I have a PS2 was for GT3 and GT4, so I am at that point now where I am thinking if it is worth it to buy a PS3 just for GT5:P. From what I have heard I think I will hold on to my wallet and wait for the full GT5 and will then buy a probably cheaper PS3 and enjoy the full GT5 experience.

I expect kazunori and his boys to go through these very threads and see what the true GT fans are moaning about and with the ability of the PS3 to offer updates and almost a year or so for the the full game release there is no excuse for him not to sort out the things that are clearly needing to get sorted like tyre squealing and engine sounds and AI. I have no doubt that when the full game comes out it will be the best ever and will smash all the competition.

In the meantime I will get the dusty GT4 out and keep entertained, I play it with a DS2 and I think the vibrating feature is a must for a racing sim, it just gives you so much more feel when you go over rumble strips and whatnot. Whether I get a G25 will depend on my account balance when GT5 comes out. I should but at that price and just all the hassle and space it takes up I will need to think about it before I commit.

Merry Christmas to you all and congrats to everyone for making this the stand alone best gt fan site on the web, I predict it will be a busy next couple of days with online racing becoming available from tomorrow!
 
miura909
I play it with a DS2 and I think the vibrating feature is a must for a racing sim, it just gives you so much more feel when you go over rumble strips and whatnot.
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Then you should be happy because GT5P fully supports rumble and so will GT5.
 
good review. I mostly agree with you, but like a bunch of people have told you already, the wheel is a very big help. I'd say GT4 was pretty redundant unless you owned a DFP, for example.

Anyway, I took the plunge and my copy of proloque is in the mail. I'll be dissecting it in a few days.

BTW, I agree with you about forza 2's physics. They are way more raw and convincing than what i've played in the demo-for-a-demo. We'll see how proloque stacks up.
 
If PD wants to make Gran Turismo AMAZING, they need to look at two games:

GT Legends and GTR2. Why? Because these two games have AWESOME AI. Drivers make realistic mistakes, drivers get aggressive, and they have no problem racing side by side through several turns with the player. Also, the collision physics are pretty good, but I'm sure there are other games that do that better. But they're way better than GT's, thats for sure.
 

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