A-Spec points: myths and truths

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I am still trying to figure out how exactly the points work. I had assumed that if your car is roughtly equivalent to the other cars in the field you would get X points.

So I entered a Toyota Tacoma X-Runner '04 (with oil change) into the Beginner hall sports truck race. There was another Tacoma in the field so I figured the Tacoma would be an even match-up for the pack average. I was given 10 A-Spec points for this.

Then I entered a Subaru 360 race. This race is only for the Subaru 360. Very even match up. I entered a Subaru 360 with no mods and not even an oil change. That was worth 55 A-Spec points, then I tried with an oil change and found it was now worth 46 points.

Two even match-ups, two very different A-Spec points. So is the Toyota overpowered compared to the field (which included a Tacoma) and therefore deserving of fewer A-Spec points? Is the Subaru 360 I had underpowered compared to the field (which was all 360s) and therefore deserving more points?
 
I've also found that things like suspension setup and TCS/ASM settings do not affect the points.

It does not matter if your suspension is dialled in for the track or it's set to the worst settings, the A-Spec points don't change.
 
There's no way that they could penalise you for having a better method of setting the car up... but the real question would be do the A-spec points change if you have normal suspension to the Full racing modify Suspension?

C.
 
i dont think its based on power to weight ratio

i used a slightly tuned Elise in the British GT cup and score 200 points each race and manage to win easily
 
I think you guys without the game are making the point system out to be a better thing then it really is.

For what it's worth, I have something like 8000 A-Spec and 4000 B-Spec points and have completed just over 25% of the game.

I still don't know what the points signify, and I'm not overly bothered by them. I don't think most of you will be either.
 
I find it hard to believe that PD would have put in this point feature and not explain it anywhere...

Maybe mileage (race length) adds to it.
 
RallyRacingFan
I am still trying to figure out how exactly the points work. I had assumed that if your car is roughtly equivalent to the other cars in the field you would get X points.

So I entered a Toyota Tacoma X-Runner '04 (with oil change) into the Beginner hall sports truck race. There was another Tacoma in the field so I figured the Tacoma would be an even match-up for the pack average. I was given 10 A-Spec points for this.

Then I entered a Subaru 360 race. This race is only for the Subaru 360. Very even match up. I entered a Subaru 360 with no mods and not even an oil change. That was worth 55 A-Spec points, then I tried with an oil change and found it was now worth 46 points.

Two even match-ups, two very different A-Spec points. So is the Toyota overpowered compared to the field (which included a Tacoma) and therefore deserving of fewer A-Spec points? Is the Subaru 360 I had underpowered compared to the field (which was all 360s) and therefore deserving more points?
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Perhaps each race isn't worth the same amount. Meaning, perhaps everyone could be driving the same car on a track that's not very technical and the AI isn't too tough, so you get 10pts for it. Then you enter another race where the track is much more difficult, you're all still driving the same cars, but you get 50pts because it takes more skill? I dunno. Just guessing at possibilities.
 
Lethalchem
I dunno. Just guessing at possibilities.
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My bad, I need to gather some more data points before we can have a hope of establishing a theory on how these weird points work. Good news is my TV is finally fixed and will be delivered tomorrow morning so I can play GT4 and gather some more observations on these A-Spec points.
 
I find this point system discussion almost as interesting as the point system itself. I've not played the game so anything I have to say about it at this time is purely speculation.

I would imagine that:
  • The points have no material value. They are strictly for comparison sake.
  • The game takes all cars & applied parts, track and number of laps into consideration in offering points.
  • The game takes all cars and applied parts, track and number of laps, and any finish results into consideration in awarding points.
  • And it's apparent that competing in an event a second time for more points simply replaces your old point score if you win the race.

I find it interesting that it's just a single growing number. It makes it somewhat hard to compare with other people who are at different stages in the game, or have chosen different routes to progress through the game. Perhaps a better way would have been to start the player with a certain number of points and either deduct from or add to their point total as they proceed through the game. That way different players can compare their point systems and feel more competetive as they move along.

I also strongly feel there should be a system where the game is saved when you start a race in GT mode so you are forced into finishing it and saving that progress. A way to subvert that would be to have two memory cards, but the save game could be ID'ed in a way that the PS2 won't copy it from one mem card to another, and GT4 knows which save is which. The sucky thing would be having a memory card go corrupt. But it could make online backups periodically.

Wow, I'm rambling again.
 
I've noticed that the baseline for the points system is 60 A-spec points.

When entering a race with an absolutely stock car (no oil changes, no car wash, no tires, nothing) against 5 other identical cars the race will be worth 60 A-spec points.

anything less than that, and you have an advantage (no matter how slight) against at least one of the other cars. anything more than that, and they have an advantage against you. If all 5 of the AI cars have an advantage, you'll see the points well above 120..

the points fluctuate according to how you compare against the field.. If you're in a Vitz race, and everyone is driving the same stock Vitz, the race will be 60 points. However, if you slap on some tires and suspension, it might be worth about 8 since those two changes give you such a huge advantage when comparing a Vitz against another Vitz.

However, if you do a JGTC race in a stock JGTC car (no upgrades after you won it), the race might be worth between 10 and 20.. just doing some minor tuning won't affect the points all that much since it's a small change (relative to the field.. when you're talking 500bhp JGTC cars, just lowering the car won't give you that much of an advantage) in comparison to what you were doing in the Vitz race.
 
I am 14.8 % the way through the game and I've been trying to gain the most points I can in A-Spec, so far I have 10,346 A-Spec Points.

I've tried to gain at least half the max points for each race, 250 I think. Which at times is really hard, trying to find a car that is crap enough to get lots of points but still be able to win the race without souping it up to the max. And I've always been really crap at the low-powered early races in GT.

From what I've tried, say running the same race 5-10 times without quitting to the world map so to speak (then you seem to get the same cars to race against again) I have worked out, for me changing anything except power related parts doesn't seem to make any difference to the points I get for the race, with a few exceptions. Most of the races will only let you use certain tyres, so you can't really make much difference early on from running different tyres. NOS does not effect the amount of points you get.

I have just tried it now in the Turbo Championship in Pro, with all the bits I don't mention staying the same at best possible all round. I had stock suspention and Gear box on, went into the Turbo Tuned race in Pro, tried the race, 200 points, then changed the parts for the best ones, 200 points. Then I changed the parts back, put on turbo kit 3, and got 122 points, so now the game is taking note of me, put the best suspention and gear box back on, still 122 points, then went from S2 to R2 (Sports/Race) tyres and it gave me 63 points.

So all none power parts seem to make no difference, except tyres, the only thing I can think of is that people have been given different cars to race against, hence the slightly different points total. But as I said, if you go into a race in a championship, just a single race, and don't quit out of it completely, just press the re-race icon you seem to get the same cars again, all through the test I just did I made sure that the cars stayed the same.

Now the only two ideas I've had about the way the game calculates the points it awards you in GT modes A-Spec races are these, one it just uses the three stats it does in Arcade mode, HP, KGs and Tyres. Or it takes into account ALL of the componants from all six cars and calculates EVERYTHING.

But on the whole I just think it uses the same three stats from Arcade mode to calculate the A-Spec points in GT Mode. And every race I've done thinking this I've got over 100 points and won, well nearly every one???

I've done the MR race in Begginers with a very low powered Lotus Elise but with all the handling parts on and got 200 points.

But as everybody else has said the game does get it wrong.

I did the Turbo Tuned Championship in Pro last night, with a second hand Impreza, and was awarded 64 points, so I was thinking I was in for a very easy ride, then an RUF Yellow Bird pissed all over me by about 5 seconds a lap.

Hope this helps.
 
Do you think that the AI are effected by how many points you've already accumulated when you enter the race? For example, if you've completed 15 races and have 320 points are they more aggressive than if you've completed 15 races and only have 100 points? I don't know how that would really play out, but it is interesting to think about. A way for the computer to track your ability and correctly set itself up to compete with you.
 
LoudMusic
Do you think that the AI are effected by how many points you've already accumulated when you enter the race? For example, if you've completed 15 races and have 320 points are they more aggressive than if you've completed 15 races and only have 100 points? I don't know how that would really play out, but it is interesting to think about. A way for the computer to track your ability and correctly set itself up to compete with you.
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Now there's something that hasn't been suggested. Nice idea, LoudMusic!
 
I haven't noticed it getting any harder loudmusic, I've re-done a couple of races I did early on in the Japanese Hall just to make money and I'd have say 6,000 points difference and it didn't seem any different.

The damn game has done it to me again, I went into the Classic World thing in Pro, I went in it in a car I won, don't know the name as it's all Japanese and I don't recognise it, it had about 350 HP and I was beating everybody by seconds a lap, so I quit out and bought a oldie fron the Oldtimers section, again don't know the name, took it back to the championship stock, about 150-200 HP, damn it if the game didn't put me up against a Buick Special '62, 564 HP, by the end of the Nurburgring race the bugger was 2+ minutes ahead of everybody and the game only offered me abour 150 points???
 
I only got offered 10 points for the Classic World cup in my Mazda Csomos, mildly tuned. I could easily beat the other 4 cars, but the 427 Cobra disappeared on me. I then use a HIGHLY modified Corvette Stingray, get offered 10 points, and still have a hard race. It don't add up.

Also the A-Spec points open up new features in the game, like free runs on circuits etc. Trouble is I've no idea what I keep winning as I can't read Chinese :lol:
 
Eddy5
I only got offered 10 points for the Classic World cup in my Mazda Csomos, mildly tuned. I could easily beat the other 4 cars, but the 427 Cobra disappeared on me. I then use a HIGHLY modified Corvette Stingray, get offered 10 points, and still have a hard race. It don't add up.

Also the A-Spec points open up new features in the game, like free runs on circuits etc. Trouble is I've no idea what I keep winning as I can't read Chinese :lol:
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LOL i went through that last night. but i think that has something to do with the AI, not the points system.

generally from my experience in the game, ur car is compared to the opponents cars and if ur car is more powerful than the other cars then u're gonna get more points and hence it'll be an easier race and vice versa.

but the AI can vary and can be severe BS like in the classic car race. i tried it twice first time i raced a ~450hp dodge charger and lost badly to a buick special. then i upgraded my car to around ~650bhp and it STILL flew past me. it took corners on the nurb as clean as a falken gtr and as fast as modded skyline gtr! i was amazed. Eventually i beat it with a highly modified corvette stingray.. but it was still an extremely hard race :O (only worth like 4pts too)

PD can do everything so well EXCEPT make the AI decent
 
Just got my copy and started playing so I'm not far enough along to really comment, but what I've read in this thread is that:

- running a new race increases your game completion percentage
- re-running the same race will allow you to increase your max a-spec points on a race if you manage to do/rate better

Logic would then say that it's one measure of how "well" you are doing compared to other people since it's a benchmark of how many points you have been able to accumulate at a certain percentage in the game. It's probably more significant at the latter stages of the game since 90% completed means you've probably covered the same races as your friend, but you can have boasting rights that you've got 50% more a-spec points than he does which would indicate you ran most of the courses under harder race conditions.

Just a thought...

LoudMusic
I find it interesting that it's just a single growing number. It makes it somewhat hard to compare with other people who are at different stages in the game, or have chosen different routes to progress through the game. Perhaps a better way would have been to start the player with a certain number of points and either deduct from or add to their point total as they proceed through the game. That way different players can compare their point systems and feel more competetive as they move along.
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RallyRacingFan
I am still trying to figure out how exactly the points work. I had assumed that if your car is roughtly equivalent to the other cars in the field you would get X points.

So I entered a Toyota Tacoma X-Runner '04 (with oil change) into the Beginner hall sports truck race. There was another Tacoma in the field so I figured the Tacoma would be an even match-up for the pack average. I was given 10 A-Spec points for this.

Then I entered a Subaru 360 race. This race is only for the Subaru 360. Very even match up. I entered a Subaru 360 with no mods and not even an oil change. That was worth 55 A-Spec points, then I tried with an oil change and found it was now worth 46 points.

Two even match-ups, two very different A-Spec points. So is the Toyota overpowered compared to the field (which included a Tacoma) and therefore deserving of fewer A-Spec points? Is the Subaru 360 I had underpowered compared to the field (which was all 360s) and therefore deserving more points?
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Maybe track difficulty or car difficulty are also factors in A-spec points?
 
The points thing i don't have figured out yet, but that green Buick Special is a "resto-mod" (modern suspension, brakes & a huge engine) and had me going nuts at Mission Hall 14 @ Seattle...that car hits its apexes and is gone. Too bad I knocked it into the wall at the last chicane.
 
Sockz
I think you guys without the game are making the point system out to be a better thing then it really is.

For what it's worth, I have something like 8000 A-Spec and 4000 B-Spec points and have completed just over 25% of the game.

I still don't know what the points signify, and I'm not overly bothered by them. I don't think most of you will be either.
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The points will become immensely valuable once you hit 100% completion. Let's say you've "beat" the game and you have 45,000 points but your friend who also beat it has 62,000. that would prove that he/she was the better driver because he was using less capable cars the whole time, which means you should go back through and bump yours up. I'm actually starting to like this feature more and more by the day because I think it will greatly add to the overall replay value of the game, not that I need any additional incentive.
 
Plopper
I've tried to gain at least half the max points for each race, 250 I think.
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Why do you believe the max points available is 250? I have never seen a race where I was offered more than 200 so I was starting to think 200 was the max. Has anyone been offered more than 200 points? Try entering a Subaru 360 into a Professional Hall race!

I won 198 points last night on Trial Mountain in the Professional Hall NA race with an ASL Garaiya with oil change. I was up against a BMW M3 and a Acura NSX '97. I drove rather poorly, bounced off the walls at least twice and still won by a large margin.

mclaren777
I'm actually starting to like this feature more and more by the day
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I agree. It make not be the most accurate measurement but at least it is some measurement. Even though it isn't consistent race to race it is going to be exactly the same for everyone else playing and therefore a reasonably fair basis for comparison between two people with similar completion percentages. Also I noted that I put more effort into choosing a not too powerful car for each race in GT4 than I ever did in GT3. In GT3 I was just trying to get races done to unlock stuff. Now I am trying to drive each race carefully and extract the maximum points. This game is going to last me a long time.
 
mclaren777
The points will become immensely valuable once you hit 100% completion. Let's say you've "beat" the game and you have 45,000 points but your friend who also beat it has 62,000. that would prove that he/she was the better driver because he was using less capable cars the whole time, which means you should go back through and bump yours up. I'm actually starting to like this feature more and more by the day because I think it will greatly add to the overall replay value of the game, not that I need any additional incentive.
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Lets just say that you got 10 points for a specific race, then after a few weeks you reach the 100% After you've reached the 100% mark, can you go back to that same race that you got 10 points in and re-race it to recieve more points?
 
i can confirm that points does not unlock anything
i finally reached 10k A-Spec points and nothing new is unlocked

i found out how to unlock cars in Arcade mode.... you have to buy them in GT mode and it will appear in Arcade mode
 
With regard to equal point value in varied difficulty in racing: The A-spec points are based purely on your car power and setup. It does not take into account the track. On shorter, tighter tracks its easier to win high-point races because you have more opportunity to catch up under braking, and less time to be left in the dust on straights. Last night I won 179pts quite easily at Monaco, but couldn't get within a bulls roar of 3rd at The Ring, even though the points value was the same. When you enter a 5 race series, each race will have the same point value but will vary in difficulty due to the tracks requirements to go quick. I'm at 4800pts with 12% complete.

The points is definitely going to become a very competitive bragging factor. Although, this won't be fully apparent until many people have completed 100% and have moved onto increasing their points.

Another thing some people are confused on: you can only get points for each race once. However, you can impove on your points. For example, I win a race with 100 points. I get 100pts credit. Then I race it again with a less tuned car and get 130pts. My A-spec max for that race becomes 130, but I am only credited 30pts for the second race. If you try enter a race on a lower A-spec rating than you have previously achieved, the text box says: you have already cleared this race and achieved higher A-spec points than you are going for now. Do you wish to continue?

Hope this clears some things up.

PS Not sure about points opening tracks (but Ive had loads open). I'll check the manual tonight
 
One more thing: If you clear a section, win a crazy car, then accidently sell it, you have an option to go back and 'un-clear' the section. Then win it again and you get the car back. I did that with some 700hp cadillac monstrosity on some rally run (sorry, cant remember the names)
 
sukebe
some 700hp cadillac monstrosity on some rally run
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I won that Cadillac CIEN too and it was on an easy Rally, right near the start. I was VERY surprised to win such a valuable car for such an early race. I went on and used it to win the Beginner Hall MR races! I'll have to redo those races later to patch up my A-Spec results, something I would probably not have bothered doing if there were no A-Spec points.

After GT3 I stopped reading prize cars lists so the Cadillac was a nice surprise. I would advise everyone to ignore the prize car lists, it is a lot more fun to discover these things for yourself.
 
...just a minute...

Drive and win a race and you'll get A-Spec points, so it stands to reason that you win B-Spec points when you "Manage" a win.

Does this mean you need to win each race in BOTH A & B Spec modes? (Making GT4 twice as big as I thought it was?)
 
sukebe
If you try enter a race on a lower A-spec rating than you have previously achieved, the text box says: you have already cleared this race and achieved higher A-spec points than you are going for now. Do you wish to continue?
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If do you continue, can you lose points?
 
The maximum number of A-Spec points possible in a given race is 200.

I entered a Subaru 360 (16ps, top speed 80km/h) into a Professional Hall NA tune race and was offered 200 points when competing with a BMW M3 CSL '03 (who ran me off the track when lapping me - punk) among others. I was lapped in a 3 lap race.
 

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