A thread only about balancing CSA and nothing else

But this tells us nothing really, it is not a good test. I'd bet even without the assist the second 10 laps would see improvements as you really start to get in the flow. Even if you know the tracks 8 laps is not much to really get back to the rhythm of it, especially if u are driving near the absolute limit. If u really want to test proper you have to turn more laps. Turn laps until you hit your ceiling and your consistently within 3 tenths of your best and 5 tenths of optimal, then start the testing.

I do not like to say I'm fast (because there are many faster guys), but I achieved some competitive WR's in Circuit experience and P1-3's in Sport mode (I wouldn't even bother to mention this but it was against some top guys I look up to). I have done a lot of racing with and without csa, and from my experience there is no difference in ultimate achievable pace. If I am going for a lap though it might take me 20 mins to achieve my potential time with csa, whereas it could take an hour or more without csa. Obviously csa doesn't provide any advantage to ultimate achievable pace, but not as many people are acknowledging the big difference to consistency and achievability of pace (unless you are a driving god anyway).
 
I do not like to say I'm fast (because there are many faster guys), but I achieved some competitive WR's in Circuit experience and P1-3's in Sport mode (I wouldn't even bother to mention this but it was against some top guys I look up to). I have done a lot of racing with and without csa, and from my experience there is no difference in ultimate achievable pace. If I am going for a lap though it might take me 20 mins to achieve my potential time with csa, whereas it could take an hour or more without csa. Obviously csa doesn't provide any advantage to ultimate achievable pace, but not as many people are acknowledging the big difference to consistency and achievability of pace (unless you are a driving god anyway).
Yes you explained very well what i said before that i who dont use them have to work harder to 1 get to that speed and 2 maintain that speed.
 
There are a few more factors to consider.
For example, I ran some Dragons Tail last night, CSA on weak helped me be more consistent, it helped specifically on turn 1/2 where it's hard to countersteer effectively on a DS4.

I think the aids are reasonable, especially for controller drivers - as countersteering mid corner while trying to maintain pace is extremely difficult with a DS4.
 
There are a few more factors to consider.
For example, I ran some Dragons Tail last night, CSA on weak helped me be more consistent, it helped specifically on turn 1/2 where it's hard to countersteer effectively on a DS4.

I think the aids are reasonable, especially for controller drivers - as countersteering mid corner while trying to maintain pace is extremely difficult with a DS4.

Just curious, do you also use a wheel?
 
So what are you comparing the DS4 to?
I've driven with a wheel before, I've also had some karting experience when I was younger - it's a lot easier to make snap adjustments on a wheel.
Are you trying to argue that driving with a controller is easier than with a wheel?
 
I've driven with a wheel before, I've also had some karting experience when I was younger - it's a lot easier to make snap adjustments on a wheel.
Are you trying to argue that driving with a controller is easier than with a wheel?

Not arguing anything, just questioning your source of information.

I would have preferred to hear that opinion from someone who owns both a DS4 and wheel and is fast with both though.

Also, testing doesn't mean much unless you are able to reach the limit of car and track at both DS4 and wheel. Otherwise, it's just your own personal preference, you could be better countersteering with one device whereas another person may be better with the other, neither will tell you which one is easier (e.g. A person who cannot control the throttle well would argue that TCS is faster).
 
Megane plus all aids on equals potential OP race wrecker.
IMO you really don't need any assists on that car, it's too good without any assists already. It's almost impossible to spin out on a Gr4 FF.

I notice by watching replays of a lot of top 10's in dailies and FIA hot lap times, a lot of them uses CSA, it obviously lets them fly through corners with little consequence of spinning out.

I've driven with a wheel before, I've also had some karting experience when I was younger - it's a lot easier to make snap adjustments on a wheel.
Are you trying to argue that driving with a controller is easier than with a wheel?
Counter steering on a wheel isn't any harder than on a controller, but with a controller you can snap left-right quickly in most racing games, drifting in Forza for eg is so much easier done on a controller than on a wheel.
 
IMO you really don't need any assists on that car, it's too good without any assists already. It's almost impossible to spin out on a Gr4 FF.

I notice by watching replays of a lot of top 10's in dailies and FIA hot lap times, a lot of them uses CSA, it obviously lets them fly through corners with little consequence of spinning out.


Counter steering on a wheel isn't any harder than on a controller, but with a controller you can snap left-right quickly in most racing games, drifting in Forza for eg is so much easier done on a controller than on a wheel.

It feels like most top 10 times I watch all assists are turned off. I've seen the odd guy who uses ASM, but I haven't seen any CSA yet, granted I tend to watch the aliens - Doodle, Snow, Gatordaryl, Hellfire etc.

Maybe we'll agree to disagree, I'm not saying that counter steering is hard on the controller, I meant that correcting oversteer while not losing any speed is a lot easier to do on a wheel.

For example, on the last corner of Dragon Trail - most FR/MR cars want to oversteer on exit if you're aggressive on the throttle - sure I can snap left/right on my controller and correct it, but when I try that, it's hard to not over correct because of how sensitive the sticks on the DS4 are. On more than one occasion when I was driving with no assists a slight over correction of understeer caused me to veer off track.
I can do the maneuver, but it's hard to get perfect without coming off the throttle.

Whereas with a wheel because of the much larger range of motion and both hands controlling it, it's much easier for me to snap left/right and not overdo the correction.

With CSA on weak, the assist won't correct the understeer for me - but it makes it easier for me do to the correction.
I can't speak to what it does on strong though.
 
It feels like most top 10 times I watch all assists are turned off. I've seen the odd guy who uses ASM, but I haven't seen any CSA yet, granted I tend to watch the aliens - Doodle, Snow, Gatordaryl, Hellfire etc.

Maybe we'll agree to disagree, I'm not saying that counter steering is hard on the controller, I meant that correcting oversteer while not losing any speed is a lot easier to do on a wheel.

For example, on the last corner of Dragon Trail - most FR/MR cars want to oversteer on exit if you're aggressive on the throttle - sure I can snap left/right on my controller and correct it, but when I try that, it's hard to not over correct because of how sensitive the sticks on the DS4 are. On more than one occasion when I was driving with no assists a slight over correction of understeer caused me to veer off track.
I can do the maneuver, but it's hard to get perfect without coming off the throttle.

Whereas with a wheel because of the much larger range of motion and both hands controlling it, it's much easier for me to snap left/right and not overdo the correction.

With CSA on weak, the assist won't correct the understeer for me - but it makes it easier for me do to the correction.
I can't speak to what it does on strong though.

I just want to point some things out, DS4 has built in assists to the physics to make it competitive with wheel users, it doesn't directly simulate a wheel. By observing the top drivers who use a wheel AND DS4, a wheel is generally preferred in Gr.4/Gr.3 and above (stable cars) whereas a DS4 is generally preferred in slower, oversteery cars. Neither is faster, slower, easier, harder etc. they both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Just because you prefer to use csa to help keep the car stable does not mean it is necessary, as there are guys posting top times with DS4 no aids besides ABS. Did you read by previous comments about how I would like CSA balanced on pg.4? Do you agree or disagree because I think if it is implemented, everyone, including you would be happy. It seems people are coming into this thread and sharing there anecdotes without looking at or acknowledging what has already been said.
 
With CSA on weak, the assist won't correct the understeer for me - but it makes it easier for me do to the correction.
I can't speak to what it does on strong though.
Weak and full are quite different, with weak it barely activates unless your car starts to slide, CSA on full will kick in on every corner you take (and if you intend to go fast, it causes you to understeer pretty severely).
 
But this tells us nothing really, it is not a good test. I'd bet even without the assist the second 10 laps would see improvements as you really start to get in the flow. Even if you know the tracks 8 laps is not much to really get back to the rhythm of it, especially if u are driving near the absolute limit. If u really want to test proper you have to turn more laps. Turn laps until you hit your ceiling and your consistently within 3 tenths of your best and 5 tenths of optimal, then start the testing

Actually I had ran probably 25 laps earlier in the day as I was thinking about running some races in the daily race. The whole point of the test for me was to see if at what overall pace I normally run for a race for myself if I noticed any difference between using or not using the aid.

My intent was not to see if the aid made a difference in a hot lap or ceiling of my absolute lap time but rather if I felt the aid made a difference in helping with maintaining consistent lap times while reducing or lessening the risk of making a mistake at a normal race pace across multiple laps.

I have run many laps around Suzuka in a Viper and in the car I used for "my" test I have driven this exact car for 1600 miles in this game so I am familiar with the cars characteristics. (although actually not important I have another 2100 miles driven in my GR4 Viper so I do know a Viper pretty well.)

On Suzuka I know which corners that running a little further inside or a little further outside than normal at race speed require a lighter throttle or extreme care or you will spin the car. I know which curbings in which part of the track to avoid as they are more likely to cause control loss and this was learned through running hundreds of laps on this track with this car playing the part of a merry go round many times.

What I did mainly was to run some normal laps pushing a bit and run some laps intentionally putting the car in positions on the track that I knew would cause spins without the aid and see what the differences were with the aid and yes with the aid employed in instances where with no doubt the car would have went completely around the aid allowed me to catch the car and as a result not incur the same time loss as that mistake would have cost without the aid. This in itself is a big advantage to using the aid in my opinion.

My purpose of making the notation about the couple of tenths better time was strictly that even with my limited use and experience with employing CSA that it did increase confidence to be slightly more aggressive with applying throttle a little earlier and a little harder as the aid would assist me in being able to catch a loss of traction where without the aid in the same spots such a risk would end in a spin out period.

This discussion is intended to be whether that the use of CSA gives an advantage or not and whether it needs to be addressed or nerfed in on line races from my interpretation anyway.

I personally can see the advantage even at my level and with using the aid not for turning ultimate lap times but pushing a bit harder and how the aid can allow a racer to push a bit harder and still remain consistent over a racer that that does not employ the aid trying to push at the exact same level will assume more risk of having a major time losing incident.

So yes in my opinion for what I was trying to learn and determine concerning CSA this was a good and useful test. I t did show me that there is an advantage to using the aid in an online race and at my level and pace anyway does not show any drawback or penalty to using it. I was even surprised that with a GR3 car that it allowed to turning TCS off completely and it seemed that the CSA was actually a better smoother traction control on this car and this track for my driving style at least.

My test was not conducted to prove anything as far as allowing actual faster lap times or anything concerning what type of controller was used or the differences in the options as that was not the intent of this discussion either but more to whether CSA offered and advantage to those that employed it over those that did not.

In my opinion in limited time of usage it does offer an advantage that allows a user in some situations to apply throttle a bit earlier and maybe a bit harder in some situations and in other situations employing the aid does allow the user to catch a car and not incur the same loss of track position or time as a non user for making the exact same mistake.

I think like anything else the more time I used it on track and could really learn its limits and explore its capabilities perhaps it could be used to a greater advantage, perhaps not just need a lot of laps to determine that with the aid which currently I do not have.

Those situations where you can save the car or just have a wiggle instead of a larger time loss because of deploying the aid could very easily result in a performance or increase in finishing positions over a full race distance and the longer the race and the more tire wear involved lessening grip in the layer laps the more pronounced the advantage could be.

Someone that does not like the way I conducted my test feel free to disregard my test results and opinions and conduct your own test using whatever criteria that you feel is warranted. At the end of the day no test results run by us racers will have actual scientific results.

My opinion is currently at my pace and level if nothing else just the better less intrusive traction control alone the aid seems to give is worth using the aid and the extra insurance of less risk of mistakes causing major time losses at a normal type of race pace makes the aid either a must use or it does need to be nerfed above a certain level to limit its advantages.
 
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