About the EA contract

[MasterGT]

People talk about the EA exclusive contract as if they have actually seen a copy of it. Personally, I don't know anyone, anywhere that has, and until someone does, everything is second-hand information or speculation. It would really help if someone could contact these companies and get the word first-hand (if they will talk), since it so hard to get accurate details otherwise.

During the UK GT4 launch, a SONY official stated that high licencing fees were a factor with some unnamed companies, but I have never heard SONY/PD state any other contract was interfering with them getting cars (Not that it couldn't, of course. They just never mention it.).

We do know that some car companies actually came to SONY/PD, to make sure some of their cars were in the game. Neither the companies nor the models were named.

"What does acquiring rights to a car entail?

Taku Imasaki: Some car manufacturers ask us to put their cars in the game, some we have to approach on our own " GT4 SCEA chat, with US GT4 Producer, 04-21-05

Not a very illuminating answer, but even some of the PD employees tried to get some of their own favourite cars in the game, but they were rejected, too, so if they couldn't get Porsches, Ferraris and others in, nobody could.

It would also be interesting to know what rules cover cars from companies that don't exist at all now.

Somebody mentioned GT4 sales earlier: near the end of last month, GT4 won an award for sales over 1,000,000 copies (Platinum), at the annual PlayStation Awards ceremony, in Japan. The top honour went to a game that sold over 3 million (Triple Platinum). From that, you would think that we could deduce that GT4 sold between 1 and 2 million, so far, since it didn't win a Double Platinum award. But that doesn't necessarily jive with April figures: "GT4 has sold a worldwide total of 6.25 million copies. This breaks down to 1.09 million in Japan, 1.94 million in America and 3.12 million in Europe." (IGN, April 27/05) The award may have been for 2004 sales only, I'm not sure. Total GT sales were nearly 44 million since inception, at the end of March/05. GT4 will probably have lots of time to make up many more millions in sales than games with a shorter longevity or version cycle.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Zardoz]

Interesting post.

...We do know that some car companies actually came to SONY/PD, to make sure some of their cars were in the game. Neither the companies nor the models were named...

"What does acquiring rights to a car entail?

Taku Imasaki: Some car manufacturers ask us to put their cars in the game, some we have to approach on our own "...

We've all wondered about this, haven't we? Perhaps some of the strange things about the car mix involve the attitudes of the various car companies' PR and marketing people.

And another question: How do some manufacturers feel about the way their cars end up being represented in the game? Saleen, for example. I wonder how they feel about the mighty S7 being turned into an understeering pig, and they must think its odd that you can't even put a GT Auto wing on it.

 

[Sprite]

And another question: How do some manufacturers feel about the way their cars end up being represented in the game? Saleen, for example. I wonder how they feel about the mighty S7 being turned into an understeering pig, and they must think its odd that you can't even put a GT Auto wing on it.

Well look at some of the british companies that have been in since GT1 or 2, Aston Martins have handeled like cr*p, and so has TVR's but they still have had cars in most of the games if not all (dont know for sure), but now in GT4 they handle ok.

I think that MasterGT has raised some good points, but until we have the correct info from the horses mouth, just ignor the roumers. Im sure that the companies involved will get requests from allsorts of games companies working on all platforms, because of the desirability from the gamers point of view, and the comanies who own then licences wont want to give the licences up too easily.

On a personal note im not going to get my nuts in a twist over some car companies been in the game, im open to new companies been added to the GT livery, but i wont go all out and moan and squeel about it. I think though that this is a missed opertunity for companies to have their cars and brands recived by a wider audience.

 

[Jedi2016]

It's hard to compare performance in a game if you've never drive the car in question.. so it's quite likely that the S7 really is an understeering brute in real life.

Also consider that the game's settings will affect the cars' performance. Take the TVR's, for example.. I just saw a Top Gear episode where they state quite clearly that TVR's don't have traction control or ABS brakes. Meaning the ones in the game probably handle FAR better than the ones in real life (as supported by the repeated mention that most TVRs are out to kill you).

Going back to the original topic... We just don't know. It seems no one's ever asked KY in interviews about the "missing" manufacturers or cars, and on the rare occasions that they do, KY simply gives a very vague answer about licensing.

The "EA Exclusive Contract" was just speculation, based on the fact that, for a number of years, the only PS2 games to feature Ferraris, Lambos, and Porsches, were all EA games. Only recently has that changed, and then for some reason they all jump ship to the Xbox. So even now, those of us without Xbox's are seriously getting the shaft when it comes to driving these lovely machines.

Once other companies started getting the cars, speculation shifted to the idea that Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche/Etc may be charging too much for the license, and PD and other developers simply don't want to pay for it. Whether that's the truth or not? We just don't know. I wish someone would ask these questions, and get straight answers for us.

 

[Don Luigi]

If Porsche/Lamborghini/Ferrari, etc. were charging too much for their licences, I think that is a bad move in terms of marketing - if those cars were included and became favourites in the game, many people would consider purchasing those in real life, proabably increasing the volume of sales.

 

[Dave A]

I think you missed a huge factor about the licenses EA held, they ende late last year meaning that PD were free to discuss licensing for the marqee's in question to appear in GT5. How do I know this, because it was published that thoes licenses were up late last year it's old news now but an google search might still find an article or two. During GT2 and 3's development KY said more than once that he couldn't get thoes companies because of exclusive licenses held. For GT4 Kaz said last year he'd been in talks with Ferrari since GT4 wasn't being launched until AFTER the licenses with EA ended, however Sony wouldn't finance the deals because they wouldn't have made that money back in extra GT4 sales, it's not so much because Ferrari or Porsche wanted a stupid amount of money, that may have been the case, but it all ultimately boils down to profit. How many more copies of GT4 would be sold if Ferrari was included, and would the profit from thoes extra sales justify paying for the licenses. The answer was no.

As for Ferrari sales increasing becasue they're in GT4, I doubt it, new ones are out of 90% of peoples price range. Lambo's cost even more generally, and Porsches are common as muck anyway.

 

[jrbabbitt]

I do have a question about the licensing (sp?), What about some of the older/historical cars? for example some of the other older Lemans cars of the 70s, and old production/ factory race cars? How can PD get the rights to do those types?

 

[Swift]

I think you missed a huge factor about the licenses EA held, they ende late last year meaning that PD were free to discuss licensing for the marqee's in question to appear in GT5. How do I know this, because it was published that thoes licenses were up late last year it's old news now but an google search might still find an article or two. During GT2 and 3's development KY said more than once that he couldn't get thoes companies because of exclusive licenses held. For GT4 Kaz said last year he'd been in talks with Ferrari since GT4 wasn't being launched until AFTER the licenses with EA ended,

Just to let you all know. This is why Microsoft was able to get them for Forza.

 

[Dave A]

I do have a question about the licensing (sp?), What about some of the older/historical cars? for example some of the other older Lemans cars of the 70s, and old production/ factory race cars? How can PD get the rights to do those types?

It depends on where the rights to thoes cars lie, some race cars like F1 cars are licensed to the FIA, so you'd go to the FIA. If you wanted to say, produce a Formula 1 game, all you'd need is the F1 license. Other race cars are licensed to the manufacturer. It's worth noting that some race cars only come under the organisers license when a deal for the event as a whole ie a WRC license is made, you can go to Subaru for a license of their rally cars but you don't need to speak to subaru if you get a WRC license covering a period Subaru competed.

 

[Zardoz]

.. so it's quite likely that the S7 really is an understeering brute in real life...

Why is it "quite likely"?

 

[Jedi2016]

Why is it "quite likely"?

Why not? It apparently behaves that way in the game, although I haven't driven it much. And I don't think there's too many people here who have driven one in real life who know how it actually behaves on the track.

Besides, it's an American car. American cars aren't exactly known for high maneuverability.

I just think it's a bit asenine to assume that any "supercar" is going to automatically handle like a Formula One race car. Fact is, a lot of supercars don't actually handle that well at speed. Take the McLaren F1 for example. Practically unbeatable in a straight line, but take a corner at high speed and you're done for. Only in the last couple of years has that started to change, and that's mostly with the European models.

 

[Mr.Slow]

It's hard to compare performance in a game if you've never drive the car in question.. so it's quite likely that the S7 really is an understeering brute in real life.

Also consider that the game's settings will affect the cars' performance. Take the TVR's, for example.. I just saw a Top Gear episode where they state quite clearly that TVR's don't have traction control or ABS brakes. Meaning the ones in the game probably handle FAR better than the ones in real life (as supported by the repeated mention that most TVRs are out to kill you).

Totally agree with this. You always hear about how fantastic RL F1 cars are. But it only takes reading the F1 insider news for a couple of weeks to learn that even the best drives always have one or two complaints about how the car handles, or brakes or is not balanced properly...

I read lots of posts here at GTPlanet complaining about how this or that car is supposed to be the ants pants in real life but it just handles like crap or has paper brakes, etc.

But if you ask anyone here who has driven those cars in real life you'll find that 100% of those complaining haven't so they have absolutely no basis for their complaint. I mean, if you take a car capable of 300MPH and only brake past the 50M marker coz 'it is supposed to have super brakes!' you'll end up in the sand trap or losing tons of time after performing a miracle to make the turn.

I have driven an S2000 (quite a few times) at the track IRL and find that the S2000 in the game is a pretty close simulation even though I spin it a lot more than I ever did IRL. Does it mean the car in the game handles like crap? No, it mostly means I have no fear of death (or repair bills) when playing the game so I push the car past its limits knowing I can just re-start the game...

 

[un_peacekeeper]

(...)

I have driven an S2000 (quite a few times) at the track IRL and find that the S2000 in the game is a pretty close simulation even though I spin it a lot more than I ever did IRL. Does it mean the car in the game handles like crap? No, it mostly means I have no fear of death (or repair bills) when playing the game so I push the car past its limits knowing I can just re-start the game...

so agreed!

 

[Canadian Speed]

If Porsche/Lamborghini/Ferrari, etc. were charging too much for their licences, I think that is a bad move in terms of marketing - if those cars were included and became favourites in the game, many people would consider purchasing those in real life, proabably increasing the volume of sales.

Dude, if you need to "try" em in a game before you by any of the "super" cars, you can't afford one... they aren't concerned about this kind of coverage because those that can afford these cars don't need a game to let them try their cars... it's not a Honda Civic we're talking about here... they're quarter million and up cars... Did you know that Lamborghini's official site won't even let you on withought a pass that you get from a dealer... they run a credit check first And further more, what if people saw that a fully done up Skyline could take out a stock Lambo... you're still way bellow the asking price of a Lambo, even with everylast bell and whistle on your Skyline...

 

[Zardoz]

...what if people saw that a fully done up Skyline could take out a stock Lambo...

Very good point. The supercar manufacturers have nothing at all to gain from having their cars in a game where the players can heavily mod other cars, and make the supercars look bad. In a game like NFS HP2, on the other hand, you can't do a thing to the cars, so the supercars always were far better than anything else in the game.

This reason alone may keep the ultra-high-end car makers out of GT5.

 

[Sven]

It would also be interesting to know what rules cover cars from companies that don't exist at all now.

That's an interesting question...I also wonder about the old historical models. Copyrights expire after 75 years, I believe, so did they have to talk to anyone at all regarding the Model T and Benz Wagons?

 

[Jedi2016]

I didn't used to care, personally... GT3, I didn't care. But since then, there have been ZERO games on PS2 that have these cars. I'm starting to really miss the days when every racing game out there had Ferraris and Lambos in them.

It's true that the manufacturers don't have to allow their cars in the games. And it certainly isn't going to bolster sales.. if I had a quarter-million bucks to spend on a car, I could just test drive the thing IRL.

But, I don't have a quarter-million dollars... and that's what's so great about video games. They allow us to do things we'd never be able to do in real life. Like, oh... for example.... drive a Lamborghini Murcielago on a race track. Sure, it's not "necessary".. but I sure wouldn't complain.

What if it all came down to timing with GT4? What if they were, for whatever reason, unable to negotiate the license in time to include any of the cars? They might have the license right now, for all we know, but what if they only got it a week before GT4 launched?

 

[niky]

If Porsche/Lamborghini/Ferrari, etc. were charging too much for their licences, I think that is a bad move in terms of marketing - if those cars were included and became favourites in the game, many people would consider purchasing those in real life, proabably increasing the volume of sales.

The volume isn't very big at all. Ferrari have a "cap" of 5000 cars a year, and they're a big supercar maker.

I think you missed a huge factor about the licenses EA held, they ende late last year meaning that PD were free to discuss licensing for the marqee's in question to appear in GT5. How do I know this, because it was published that thoes licenses were up late last year it's old news now but an google search might still find an article or two. During GT2 and 3's development KY said more than once that he couldn't get thoes companies because of exclusive licenses held. For GT4 Kaz said last year he'd been in talks with Ferrari since GT4 wasn't being launched until AFTER the licenses with EA ended, however Sony wouldn't finance the deals because they wouldn't have made that money back in extra GT4 sales, it's not so much because Ferrari or Porsche wanted a stupid amount of money, that may have been the case, but it all ultimately boils down to profit. How many more copies of GT4 would be sold if Ferrari was included, and would the profit from thoes extra sales justify paying for the licenses. The answer was no.

As for Ferrari sales increasing becasue they're in GT4, I doubt it, new ones are out of 90% of peoples price range. Lambo's cost even more generally, and Porsches are common as muck anyway.

Part of that money, I'd like to include, would be programming time and development costs, and a last-minute deal would've set GT4 back ANOTHER few months...

Aston Martin DID make one recorded sale BECAUSE of GT. To a bunch of oil rig workers who had nothing else to do for months out at sea than play GT.

I have driven an S2000 (quite a few times) at the track IRL and find that the S2000 in the game is a pretty close simulation even though I spin it a lot more than I ever did IRL. Does it mean the car in the game handles like crap? No, it mostly means I have no fear of death (or repair bills) when playing the game so I push the car past its limits knowing I can just re-start the game...

I have no complaint about how my car handles in the game, either. It's pretty accurate (meaning, it's slow in the damn game, too).

You have to figure that a wide, low car with monstrously wide rear tires would understeer like hell, but try telling that to the guys who expect it to slalom at over 80mph?

 

[JTSnooks]

I'm pretty sure PD wanted to put Ferrari into GT4, but for some reason either couldn't get enough cars to test and the license for it wasn't worth having one or two of their cars in the game or something. I base this on having seen pictures taken of some of their "test days" where they had hundreds of cars there were putting through their paces, and seeing at least one ferrari among the mix. I don't remember what it was, but I think there was an F355 and a few porsches (not Rufs). The pics were at IGN.com some time when they got an invite out to a testing thingy. So it was planned, but for some reason was scrapped. I entirely expect Ferraris and Porsches to be in GT5 (I know for a fact EA had the Porsche license, can't speak for Ferrari), and hopefully Lamborghini and others as well.

 

[s12ken]

I know this topic has been beating around the bush for a while, I think Ferrari has never had any preference as to who would recreate their masterpeices in the digital world, it's just that certain parties will want to hold exclusivity in the matter. Ferrari making a move to put their cars or at least one of them, into GT5 would probably generate interest in their entry-level cars.. F430 and probably the '05 Dino(if they ever make it). But from what we've seen so far, why wouldn't you have an Enzo in the game when the likes of Pagani, Mc Laren - Mercedez, Cizeta, Ford's GT and the odd Cien there in the mix, it's a good chance for Ferrari to show off their wares. It doesn't matter if the game shows that you can pit a 600hp GTR (cue NISMO GTR Z-Tune) can beat an Enzo.. there already are, that would be the least of their worrrys. Ferrari is known for the quality of the cars they make (as well as how fast they go) to me a Ferrari will always have more luxury than a Skyline, it's all in the heritage they have.

 

[Jedi2016]

I imagine that, if GT someday gets Ferrari, the game will have a whole gaggle of them. Ferrari is such a historic company.. We'll probably have at least thirty or forty years worth of Ferraris, probably a bunch that I've never even heard of.

 

[un_peacekeeper]

then ppl can stop complaining how there are 20 skylines in the game. cuz they will have 30 ferraris to worry about.

 

[s12ken]

mmmm. i'd dig the 1972 Dino 246 GT around the 'ring!

 

[MasterGT]

I think you missed a huge factor about the licenses EA held, they ende late last year meaning that PD were free to discuss licensing for the marqee's in question to appear in GT5. How do I know this, because it was published that thoes licenses were up late last year it's old news now but an google search might still find an article or two. During GT2 and 3's development KY said more than once that he couldn't get thoes companies because of exclusive licenses held. For GT4 Kaz said last year he'd been in talks with Ferrari since GT4 wasn't being launched until AFTER the licenses with EA ended, however Sony wouldn't finance the deals because they wouldn't have made that money back in extra GT4 sales, it's not so much because Ferrari or Porsche wanted a stupid amount of money, that may have been the case, but it all ultimately boils down to profit. How many more copies of GT4 would be sold if Ferrari was included, and would the profit from thoes extra sales justify paying for the licenses. The answer was no.

As much as I trust that what you repeated is true and how it actually is, your comments are still third-hand or worse. Whatever we will find on the net is also likely to be of the same caliber. Answers.com didn't have the answer (hey, I thought it was humourous...), it actually repeated what wikipedia had on its site. It's very common for one site to just repeat what is on another site, verbatum.

I (and many others) would be more impressed with a source that is original and official, not mere repetition and speculation.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Mad Murphy NZ]

mmmm. i'd dig the 1972 Dino 246 GT around the 'ring!

Hell yes! Gotta love the Dino.

 

[Brock5000]

I imagine that when EA approached the licensing divisions of Porsche, Ferrari etc for the original NFS games they probably had no trouble in convincing them that EA was the biggest and most profitable game company around and that the NFS franchise was a benchmark in driving games that would never be surpassed.

At the time there was little competition in 3D games and NFS was the most impressive racing game available outside of the arcades. Back then few outside the game industry would have realised (or, rather, appreciated) quite how fast technology was progressing so a 10 year exclusivity deal (or whatever it was) probably sounded like a sure bet.

Hopefully manufacturers are savvy enough these days to not get into exclusive licensing agreements, because at the end of the day it benefits only the lawyers and serves to upset fans of both the game & the car.


One thing that I have heard said a few times is that when people have asked SCEI / PD if their favourite car was to be in the upcoming GT, the reply has been "Go and ask that manufacturer to approach us." Has anyone ever made a direct request to either, or even had a respone?

 

[Jedi2016]

One thing that I have heard said a few times is that when people have asked SCEI / PD if their favourite car was to be in the upcoming GT, the reply has been "Go and ask that manufacturer to approach us." Has anyone ever made a direct request to either, or even had a respone?

I did, once... I actually asked Ferrari about it. The people I talked to simply didn't know anything. I had a hard time hunting down the actual head office, and there was the slight problem of not speaking Italian. That same problem would probably plague people trying to contact Lamborghini, as well.

Perhaps a letter-writing campaign?

 

[a6m5]

Some seems to think that having Ferrari cars in Gran Turismo will not help Ferrari. I beg to differ. Exposure is very important for all types of "brands". IMO, having the million images of your beautiful sports cars shown on million websites and magazines will help, even if it doesn't directly translate into the number of the cars sold.

One thing that I have heard said a few times is that when people have asked SCEI / PD if their favourite car was to be in the upcoming GT, the reply has been "Go and ask that manufacturer to approach us." Has anyone ever made a direct request to either, or even had a respone?

There was an Saab thread that touched on that, little while ago. I did send an email to them, asking to have their cars featured in GT5.

 

[a6m5]

I did, once... I actually asked Ferrari about it. The people I talked to simply didn't know anything. I had a hard time hunting down the actual head office, and there was the slight problem of not speaking Italian. That same problem would probably plague people trying to contact Lamborghini, as well.

Perhaps a letter-writing campaign?

I'm all for that. Most of the Manufacturer's websites have ways to contact them thru email.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I'm pretty sure PD wanted to put Ferrari into GT4, but for some reason either couldn't get enough cars to test and the license for it wasn't worth having one or two of their cars in the game or something. I base this on having seen pictures taken of some of their "test days" where they had hundreds of cars there were putting through their paces, and seeing at least one ferrari among the mix. I don't remember what it was, but I think there was an F355 and a few porsches (not Rufs). The pics were at IGN.com some time when they got an invite out to a testing thingy. So it was planned, but for some reason was scrapped. I entirely expect Ferraris and Porsches to be in GT5 (I know for a fact EA had the Porsche license, can't speak for Ferrari), and hopefully Lamborghini and others as well.

In the "Making Of GT4" DVD (that came in the GT4 Prologue game box) you could see PD guys photographing and testing several cars that didn't make it into GT4. Among them there were several Ferraris and Porsches (you could see in several close-up segments of film the Porsche badge on the car). So, they have been tested. I didn't see Lamborghinis.

PS - One other brand that was in that movie and didn't make it into GT4 is Morgan. You could see a "normal" Morgan (not sure if it was the 4/4 or the Plus 8) and the Aero 8 Le Mans race car. It was a dissapointment for me that these cars didn't appear in the game.