ABS 10???

[Bluesman81977]

Just out of curiosity, i normaly run abs1. What could i expect if i cranked it up to 10?

 

[Wide Boy]

No idea perhaps fractionally better ABS though I don't know if you would notice.
The ABS on a supercar is far superior to that fitted on the likes of a little run around.
Might make it worse allowing slight lock ups try it & tell us what you find.

 

[Jahgee]

ABS 1 is way better than 10, all 10 does is make braking less effective

 

[Bluesman81977]

I tried it on the Lotus 97T and it didn't seem to change anything. I'll just keep it at 1 i suppose.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

As I understand it abs 1 is stronger than abs 10, so you'll slow down quicker but only in a straight line.
Where as abs 10 although not as strong will enable you to turn under braking... I think that's how it goes.

So abs 1 = stronger brakes but understeer.
And abs 10 = weaker brakes but less understeer.
While braking & turning at the same time only abs 10 retains more traction through turning rather than braking, and vice versa for abs 1.

Again I think that it, thats how I understood it anyway.

 

[Ryk]

Best way is to give it a try.

Try a track you know well in a car you know well. Maybe a single stage time trial at Sierra, and just alter the settings. You should notice some difference as you drop into a corner; maybe the car seems to be on automatic pilot, maybe it feels a bit more alive.
Of course ABS=0 and the car will turn into an untamed beast as it spits and snarls and screams and protests any serious corner.

 

[R5]

Of course ABS=0 and the car will turn into an untamed beast as it spits and snarls and screams and protests any serious corner.

And the driver will turn into an irresistible to women dinosaur like yourself.

 

[TexRex]

As ABS intensity, so too does the resistance to lock up under heavy braking. As you increase the value, you'll also find the car less willing to respond to heavy braking as it wants to maintain tire roll-out. That said, I maintain that the difference between 0 and 1 is far greater (in the opposite direction, of course) than the difference between 1 and 10.

 

[Johnnypenso]

As I understand it abs 1 is stronger than abs 10, so you'll slow down quicker but only in a straight line.
Where as abs 10 although not as strong will enable you to turn under braking... I think that's how it goes.

So abs 1 = stronger brakes but understeer.
And abs 10 = weaker brakes but less understeer.
While braking & turning at the same time only abs 10 retains more traction through turning rather than braking, and vice versa for abs 1.

Again I think that it, thats how I understood it anyway.

As ABS intensity, so too does the resistance to lock up under heavy braking. As you increase the value, you'll also find the car less willing to respond to heavy braking as it wants to maintain tire roll-out. That said, I maintain that the difference between 0 and 1 is far greater (in the opposite direction, of course) than the difference between 1 and 10.

I believe that's the theory behind the setting. 1 applies the maximum braking power to the wheels, sacrificing lateral grip, 10 applies the least amount of braking and more grip available for lateral movement. On the track I've never found it beneficial to use anything other than 1 mainly because ABS in GT is as much a stability control as it is ABS. The 1 setting actually does what the 10 setting is supposed to which is provide more lateral grip while using the brakes. You can apply the brakes in GT willy nilly, just about anywhere with ABS1, without it having too dramatic an effect on the balance of the car or the overall traction level, weight shift etc. Try that in a sim or a real car, tapping the brake pedal when you are at the absolute limits of grip with ABS and the effects are much more dramatic.

 

[ALB123]

On the track I've never found it beneficial to use anything other than 1 mainly because ABS in GT is as much a stability control as it is ABS.

I've seen you mention this in other threads, and I've probably seen other people mention this exact same thing as well. Could you explain to me why you feel ABS=1 is acting as a "stability control" rather than just a braking control? I'm not saying you're wrong. I just honestly would like to know how you've come to this conclusion. Thanks...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've seen you mention this in other threads, and I've probably seen other people mention this exact same thing as well. Could you explain to me why you feel ABS=1 is acting as a "stability control" rather than just a braking control? I'm not saying you're wrong. I just honestly would like to know how you've come to this conclusion. Thanks...

Mainly because of how little it affects the stabilty of the car when braking and cornering at the limit. When a car is at the limit of traction when cornering and you touch the brakes even with ABS, you pitch weight forward and change the balance of the car. A number of things are possible from losing traction in the back end to a push on the front end or even losing traction on all 4 wheels at the same time, depending on the car/track/corner, how close the front or back is to the limit of traction, the particular car and a number of other variables. In GT it seems you can be way more liberal with when and where you brake and how hard you brake although it's not unlimited obviously. It's not so easy in real life to trail brake like it is in GT nor is it that easy in sim racing either which seems to do a better job of recreating ABS braking and weight transfer.

When you release the brake you often get brake release oversteer which is also unrealistic most of the time. In reality when you let off the brakes, weight effectively pitches away from the front and towards the rear of the car, and moves the car towards understeer, not oversteer. The secret to being fast in GT is managing the brake release oversteer IMO, knowing when and where to induce it for maximum rotation and early on the throttle. Managing weight transfer is also needed to be quick but it's very subdued.

 

[photonrider]

Great posts by JohnnyP and Mr Grumpy - that is the truth in some detail.

Referring to the GT6 Manual under ABS will give you the official gen.

In short - ABS 1 = better braking, ABS 10 = better cornering.

 

[JKgo]

Unrealistic, seriously. Not too bothered with it, so I just leave in default...Tried ABS in 5 but didn't feel much difference so nowadays don't even think about it - instead tinker with brake balance. Now that's fun!! (sarcasm)

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Great posts by JohnnyP and Mr Grumpy - that is the truth in some detail.

Referring to the GT6 Manual under ABS will give you the official gen.

In short - ABS 1 = better braking, ABS 10 = better cornering.

Well, after reading through here and according to my own testing and studies, you and @Johnnypenso are the closest. As far as lap times, there is really no difference, or advantage, in using ABS 10. Its either: Do you want your brakes more prone to lock up, or do you want slightly more grip in the corners. Personally, I have only had better lap times with ABS 10 at one track during a test session, HSR, and it was only about a .200 difference....not enough to convince me that using the higher setting was better. I later went back with ABS 1 and consistently come within around .050 of that time so I just chalk that lap up to a luck. It did make more of a difference in GT5 as I used it a lot to my advantage, but here in GT6 the effects seem to be very much diminished.

 

[ALB123]

Thank you @Johnnypenso...I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself on the matter. I would agree that Gran Turismo has a LOT of work to do in respect to how weight transfers under braking, upon conclusion of applying the brake, and then application of throttle again (all in respect to travelling at higher speed, of course). I have probably spent less than 0.05% of my total GT6 time driving with ABS turned off. I'll have to give that a try sometime and really pay attention to how the car reacts compared to ABS=1.

 

[spacecowboy73]

Thank you I have probably spent less than 0.05% of my total GT6 time driving with ABS turned off. I'll have to give that a try sometime and really pay attention to how the car reacts compared to ABS=1.

I recommend playing the game without ABS. It's a lot more fun and the car feels more alive. Just don't forget to change the break bias!

I only ever use ABS 1 when doing time trials.

When a car is at the limit of traction when cornering and you touch the brakes even with ABS, you pitch weight forward and change the balance of the car. A number of things are possible from losing traction in the back end to a push on the front end or even losing traction on all 4 wheels at the same time, depending on the car/track/corner, how close the front or back is to the limit of traction, the particular car and a number of other variables.

Just so I'm understanding correctly, if the car is already at the limit of traction, shouldn't you have already been braking? If you are at the limit then brake for the corner you weren't going to make it anyway correct?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I recommend playing the game without ABS. It's a lot more fun and the car feels more alive. Just don't forget to change the break bias!

I only ever use ABS 1 when doing time trials.

Just so I'm understanding correctly, if the car is already at the limit of traction, shouldn't you have already been braking? If you are at the limit then brake for the corner you weren't going to make it anyway correct?

Do some people call you Maurice?

I'm not sure what the question has to do with how ABS works in the game. It isn't about what you should be doing on a perfect corner it's about how a car behaves in GT on and coming off the brakes relative to the way it works in the real world.

 

[TexRex]

Do some people call you Maurice?

 

[Griffith500]

The ABS in the game simply limits the braking power to each wheel according to the force it can withstand at the contact patch - this can be determined by the slip curves. Naturally, that force depends on dynamic weight distribution.

If you're turning right at constant speed, there is more "load" on the wheels on the left of the car. That means there's more grip available on those wheels.

If you're travelling in a straight line and apply the brakes more strongly on the left hand side of the car than the right, what happens? It turns to the left, of course.

So, in effect, when you're braking and turning right in the game, the ABS is trying to turn the car left instead. And vice versa.

That, in my opinion, is the source of GT's understeer reputation. It also explains why the back end won't rotate under brakes at all, because the brake bias is effectively dynamically shifted forwards to match the "weight transfer".


ABS 10 represents the setting that minimises that brake steer effect, by reducing the maximum allowable difference in braking effort between wheels laterally. It's only really useful if you struggle to modulate the braking power during trail braking.

This is also why ABS 0 proponents are so vocal. It strips off a hidden layer of control, one that seems performance oriented, but is poorly conceived, and exposes the natural behaviour of the physics engine.

 

[Harsk100]

Unrealistic, seriously. Not too bothered with it, so I just leave in default...Tried ABS in 5 but didn't feel much difference so nowadays don't even think about it - instead tinker with brake balance. Now that's fun!! (sarcasm)

ABS isn't unrealistic...

Well, I always use ABS on 1 and it gives an good feeling of cornering to me.

 

[kilesa4568]

This might be a stupid question, but how can you have levels of ABS from 0 to 10 when in reality, the car either has ABS or it doesn't?

 

[Griffith500]

This might be a stupid question, but how can you have levels of ABS from 0 to 10 when in reality, the car either has ABS or it doesn't?

RTFM. 

Or, you know, maybe just the thread.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This might be a stupid question, but how can you have levels of ABS from 0 to 10 when in reality, the car either has ABS or it doesn't?

There are many, many things in GT6 that aren't close to reality, like 800 cars with a black interior. You just get used to it, compromises have to be made in every game.

 

[Wide Boy]

This might be a stupid question, but how can you have levels of ABS from 0 to 10 when in reality, the car either has ABS or it doesn't?

This is the second post in this thread

No idea perhaps fractionally better ABS though I don't know if you would notice.
The ABS on a supercar is far superior to that fitted on the likes of a little run around.
Might make it worse allowing slight lock ups try it & tell us what you find.

Of course cars don't just have ABS fitted or not, just like the brakes fitted to your car there are many different ones they are not all equal in performance.

 

[Aki Ko]

I've did a braking test with a friend using R35 GT-Rs using Sports Hard tyres. I did ABS 1 and 0 while my friend did full 10.

ABS 1 did better than ABS 10, but ABS 10 and ABS 0 were nearly equal with ABS 10 being marginally better.

ABS 10, as @Jahgee1124 said, just makes brakes less effective. Just use ABS 1 for maximum braking power without locking up.

 

[Griffith500]

It doesn't just make brakes less effective. It backs off the brakes on the outside wheels when turning to reduce the brake steer effect responsible for understeer.

Your braking test (assumedly in a straight line) indicates that it doesn't just apply that laterally, but also longitudinally. So it backs off the brakes on the front wheels as more weight is shifted to them, inline with the reduction of grip on the rear axle. I don't know what use that has, perhaps they define maximum differences in braking effort purely per wheel.


ABS 10 is for people who can't trail brake. If the ABS in the game were more realistic, there would have been no chronic understeer, and no reason for PD to add an option to try to combat that. Bear in mind the physics have changed a bit since it was introduced.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

ABS in GT5/6 = Brake Assist with added hidden stability, simple as that. It doesn't remotely simulate real life ABS system at all. ABS 10 allows more tire grip reserved for cornering instead of braking. I never use it on my regular play since GT5, except that one time I was curious when I started GT5 back on release day or when I need to test car handling on special occasion requiring ABS 1, which was horrendous experience for me , almost like playing Mass Effect without any biotic powers.

 

[NCRthree]

Thanks Griffith for that explanation. I've never attempted any ABS setting other than 1.
Driven with ABS 0 for the last 3 years. No way I can go back to the assist. It feels much like SRF to me now.

Perhaps that's why I'm not a big complainer on this forum or that anxious to get into PC sims. I really enjoy the driving feel of GT6 especially stock street cars on Comforts.

 

[Griffith500]

@NCRthree that's primarily how I play, too, and it is adequate. I do miss decent racing though.

I thoroughly recommend people try ABS 0, and learn how to set brake balances. It takes some patience at first, but it really is a whole new world of driving feel in GT.

 

[photonrider]

Referring to the GT6 Manual under ABS will give you the official gen.

In short - ABS 1 = better braking, ABS 10 = better cornering.

I should expand on this to prevent misunderstanding.

ABS 10 doesn't mean better cornering in general. It means better cornering than ABS 1.
Likewise - as the Manual says - ABS 1 is better braking than ABS 10.

Does it actually have an 'ABS' function?
If it does then either 0 or 5 should be the default ABS for the particular car (most modern road cars come with ABS - mine does; it comes on and off intermittently if I drive my real car like driving a virtual car in Gran Turismo and so does the Traction Control, also automatically as needed ('02 Olds Intrigue - Precision model)).

If 0 or 5 are not the default settings, then we have to consider that another number is (is the default number '1'?) the default setting.

As well - does '0' remove the standard ABS for a particular ABS-equipped car? Or does it give us the car as it would be from the dealer - which means if it comes standard with ABS, does then ABS=0 mean that it has ABS - the ABS for that particular model?

Which leads to a further question: If one were to keep it at the default setting does that mean a car with no ABS comes with no ABS even though the default setting will be signified by a number? Would a car with no ABS still have no ABS at the default setting?