ABS or no ABS?

[chuyler1]

Are we talking in-game or real life? There seems to be mixed responses.

Real life: I leave it on unless I'm on a lake ice racing (in which case it doesn't work anyway). The same goes for traction control. It stays on unless I have a reason to turn it off. I drive in snow quite a bit and although it feels like you cannot stop as fast, the only time it kicks in is when you have misjudged your stopping distance in the first place. With abs on, you can maneuver the car and apply full brake pressure to avoid an accident. With abs off, you'll have to react quick and alternate between turning the wheel with no brake pressure, and pumping the brakes to keep them from locking up. This is beyond the ability level of the average person in an emergency situation. Without abs, you are more than likely going to end up sideways if you have to make a sudden stop.

Someone mentioned above that it turns on whenever you drive over a leaf. That may be true, but its something I'm willing to live with if the system will save my life in other situations (which it has).

As for in game, I drive with it abs=1. I don't use full brake pressure most of the time so it is likely i could run with abs=0 without too much adjustment, but when racing online, there are always drivers ahead of you using abs and braking at unexpected times. It is alot easier to trail someone into a corner with abs on and you'll have few punting incidents.

 

[Moglet]

Someone mentioned above that it turns on whenever you drive over a leaf.

Which it might do, but unless it's a leaf the size of a bed it won't make much of a difference!

 

[Joey D]

Having owned a car without ABS, I can safely say that I want it in all my vehicles...along with a good set of tires too. For my brakes and tires are the two most important things on a car in terms of safety, and I feel ABS is a necessity for that safety to be up to snuff.

 

[Tornado]

I've driven cars without ABS. I've driven cars that came with ABS but it was disabled. Cars without ABS can be fun in a way that cars with it are not.


I am very glad that my car has ABS.

 

[Moglet]

Having owned a car without ABS, I can safely say that I want it in all my vehicles...along with a good set of tires too. For my brakes and tires are the two most important things on a car in terms of safety, and I feel ABS is a necessity for that safety to be up to snuff.

I couldn't agree more. I got laughed at recently for spending £210 on 2 new tyres. The guy doing the laughing had spent £40 on a full set of re-treads. I get the feeling that he won't be laughing when he's approaching a wall at high speed.

 

[Eric.]

re-treads?

 

[Tornado]

re-treads?

Put new tread on old tires.

 

[Eric.]

That's what I was assuming. That sounds completely safe.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

My view on ABS is that I don't need it but I won't disable it unless it causes issues.

I also won't bother spending more than $200 to fix it on a car worth less than a few grand.

 

[YSSMAN]

All three of my cars have been without ABS. It is a feature that I wish I had, particularly with the crummy weather. It isn't as though I cannot control the vehicle, but more or less, that I hate lockup, and on slick surfaces, it can create harrier moments than I'd like.

 

[Joel]

The '03 Corolla doesn't have ABS, but my mom's Golf and dad's Enclave both do. ABS is a feature I really want on my next car, it's just peace of mind to know that I can slam on the pedal as hard as I can and not have to worry about locking the brakes. A couple times in my dad's car, I've been driving and had a dog run out in front. It's comforting to know I can just slam on the brakes and stop in such a short distance.

I hope my next car has ABS, but I'd like to be able to disable it in the snow. Sometimes the snow doesn't get cleared for a while, and even though I'll have winter tires, I find ABS a tad slipperier.

 

[Thatman]

Are we talking in-game or real life? There seems to be mixed responses.

Well this is the cars in general sub forum. So that would be sticking to real life.👍

My point is that in these conditions, the stopping distances you should be leaving should be big enough to allow for plenty of time and space, ABS or not.

Fair enough, though I was getting at its easier to adjust your driving style to not have to compensate for massive stopping distances.

 

[kikie]

For your own safety and the safety of others, ABS is a must. It's the same with FWD and AWD. FWD are safer to drive.

If you're a professional or you have such a big ego that you think you don't need it, by all means get a car without ABS.

It's implemented for a reason.

I learned to drive with ABS or treshold braking properly HERE.
Most daily drivers don't even know how to use ABS properly in case of dangerous situations. ABS doesn't work properly when you don't push the brake pedal all the way down and you have to use some force to do so.

Without ABS and an emergency braking, you can't control your car anymore because the front wheels lock up.
With ABS on the other hand, you can still turn and avoid the obstacle but you're car could oversteer, which is another dangerous situation but less dangerous than locking up your front wheels.

If you know how to use, and you can always do so in every situation, treshhold braking you're better of without ABS. I think that's not possible because in a panic situation you always slam the brakes , resulting in locking up the front wheels (without ABS ofcourse).
Even Formula 1 drivers lock up their brakes if they get too excited while racing.

Most people that don't have real life experience think they can drive without ABS in a real car because they can in race games.

Ijust read the thread after posting and some people say that ABS doesn't work on snow. Well I must have the best ABS system there is because in my car, it does work on snow. And when I was practicing at JESCO, we had tires without any profile (like slicks) on concrete with an epoxy layer on top of it and water on top of that and still the ABS system works perfectly.
I also had a 3 day course in the winter, in snow HERE and the ABS system on the snow worked perfectly.

 

[Thatman]

*Snip*
Ijust read the thread after posting and some people say that ABS doesn't work on snow. Well I must have the best ABS system there is because in my car, it does work on snow. And when I was practicing at JESCO, we had tires without any profile (like slicks) on concrete with an epoxy layer on top of it and water on top of that and still the ABS system works perfectly.
I also had a 3 day course in the winter, in snow HERE and the ABS system on the snow worked perfectly.

If your car slows down faster on Ice and Snow,in a straight line, with the ABS on.... Then yes.
Now I'm sure ABS works in snow, If the tires continue to turn then it is, indeed working.

 

[NLxAROSA]

In modern cars ABS really only kicks in when doing an emergency stop. So even when you're playing around and braking hard on a public road, you shouldn't trigger it. If you are, you're driving like a complete maniac. And that's where ABS comes in handy: when you have to brake like a complete maniac.

 

[Eric.]

Not totally. Like I said, my Civic's system gets triggered over broken pavement quite often. However its hard to engage it purposely on good pavement, in autocross, etc. My Grand Am's seemed to be a little better since it didn't engage so quickly, but was still fine when I needed it.

 

[Ibonibo]

i voted yes.

It probably saved a lot of lifes since it's implentation, so it's a good feature.
Same goes for traction control.

Not everybody is a good driver, and i learned it the hard way, that most people can drive s... strawberries. Especially in emergency situations.

It's the car industry reward that there are alot less deathtolls to pay on the roads, rather than politicans wanting the reward.

I welcome all these additions.

Now if we talk other purposes than public road, i may differ.

 

[CSLACR]

Meh, people claiming they prefer no ABS... too much BS, bravado and overstatement of driving ability.

ABS doesn't work on loose surfaces/snow, but in every other surface/situation you're better off with it.

If you think you can cadence brake better than a modern ABS system you're fooling yourself.

I swear I've been telling a lot of people this myself lately....

I've yet to ever need ABS, but in a panic situation anyone thinking they're going to execute perfect threshold braking is a fool, and doesn't understand the meaning of "panic".
I find it highly debatable that even a professional can out brake any properly working decent ABS, especially considering ABS only kicks in after threshold is exceeded.

Paying attention to the road and your surroundings is the best ABS on the planet.

I did vote no-ABS, strictly for fun purposes, but there should be an option in the poll for ABS with an off switch.

 

[Thatman]

^^
Its kinda the "Meh" option on the poll.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

I find it highly debatable that even a professional can out brake any properly working decent ABS, especially considering ABS only kicks in after threshold is exceeded.

If the threshold is exceeded by 1 tire; ABS kicks in. And yes, professionals can and do outperform ABS brake systems. It's b/c ABS is programmed for the majority of drivers from age 16 to 76...not people who drive cars for a living.

The main purpose of ABS braking systems is so the driver can still steer the car while standing on the brake pedal with 2 feet. In a non-ABS car, doing the same would make a pretty horrific accident. ABS reduces the tendency for the car to snap-oversteer or roll over in a 'panic' situation.

However, even someone with only 1 season of auto-x under their belt probably knows that the front tires can either steer or stop; they have trouble doing both at the same time. Also I think it would be safer in some situations if cars simply carried their momentum, like locking up all 4-wheels, than having pumps & computers try to correct everything. Ever see a car suddenly veer one way or another in icy conditions? Ever see that happen when there's oncoming traffic? It gets messy...

And if ABS is for consumer safety, what's to stop someone from driving on bald tires or performance summer tread during a snowstorm? You can have all the electronics in the world, but your car isn't going to stop if the tread is almost bare or your summer tires have turned to stone. That is a real danger which happens all the damn time come winter.

While it has probably helped more people than it has hurt, I still wish there was an option to turn it off much like you can the passenger air bag.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

ABS? Meh.

I've locked up the brakes a couple of times in the Skyline but one of those times was in the wet and it wasn't even for a quarter of a second.

I've driven a few cars with ABS and owned two cars without it and I can honestly say that considering my on-road driving style I can barely tell the difference.

 

[homeforsummer]

And if ABS is for consumer safety, what's to stop someone from driving on bald tires or performance summer tread during a snowstorm? You can have all the electronics in the world, but your car isn't going to stop if the tread is almost bare or your summer tires have turned to stone. That is a real danger which happens all the damn time come winter.

That's not an argument against ABS, it's an argument against idiots.

I've locked up the brakes a couple of times in the Skyline but one of those times was in the wet and it wasn't even for a quarter of a second.

I've driven a few cars with ABS and owned two cars without it and I can honestly say that considering my on-road driving style I can barely tell the difference.

...Until you panic brake and slam into the back of someone.

Locking up doesn't scare me. I've done it plenty of times and quite safely.

Locking up on the motorway when it's raining and all the cars in front of you stop dead, or when a child runs out in front of you from between parked cars, are completely different scenarios and however good you think you are as a driver, you're better off having ABS in some situations.

Anyone who thinks ABS is some sort of affront to their driving skill is an idiot. Yes, it's quite possible that you can go through life and never need ABS, and you might be able to drive all day long at a race circuit on the threshold of lockup, but you cannot guarantee for that one time in one thousand where someone's life might be at stake, so it's better to have it.

 

[mustangGT90210]

I don't have ABS, except on the back axle, and it doesn't really work. Anyways, I really don't think it's necessary, I haven't had problems without. Only times I ever slide are in the mud, but I have buddies with ABS and they slide as much if not much than me

 

[Glubags]

ABS is perfect for 99% of the population who only drive on public roads and would be prone to panicking in an emergency stop situation. It's just a no-brainer for them. Stomp on the brake pedal, let the car handle it, and hope for the best.

In my cars, however, I want to know my tires intimately under all loads--braking especially. Threshold braking is an important skill that many people never learn these days due to the advent of ABS. Of course that's fine for Joe Highway Commuter, but as someone who loves to drive and strives to continually refine his skill set, ABS represents an unwanted disconnect between my input and the car's behavior. If I'm braking beyond the tires' limits, I don't want a computer to modulate braking forces and fix it for me--I want the tires to scream at me and refuse to corner until I relieve just enough pressure to get them rolling again.

Basically, I want the car to do exactly what I tell it to do, even when I'm wrong, because while it's good to know what your car can do, it's absolutely necessary to have a deep understanding of what it can't do. 👍

 

[CSLACR]

If the threshold is exceeded by 1 tire; ABS kicks in. And yes, professionals can and do outperform ABS brake systems. It's b/c ABS is programmed for the majority of drivers from age 16 to 76...not people who drive cars for a living.

The main purpose of ABS braking systems is so the driver can still steer the car while standing on the brake pedal with 2 feet. In a non-ABS car, doing the same would make a pretty horrific accident. ABS reduces the tendency for the car to snap-oversteer or roll over in a 'panic' situation.

However, even someone with only 1 season of auto-x under their belt probably knows that the front tires can either steer or stop; they have trouble doing both at the same time. Also I think it would be safer in some situations if cars simply carried their momentum, like locking up all 4-wheels, than having pumps & computers try to correct everything. Ever see a car suddenly veer one way or another in icy conditions? Ever see that happen when there's oncoming traffic? It gets messy...

And if ABS is for consumer safety, what's to stop someone from driving on bald tires or performance summer tread during a snowstorm? You can have all the electronics in the world, but your car isn't going to stop if the tread is almost bare or your summer tires have turned to stone. That is a real danger which happens all the damn time come winter.

While it has probably helped more people than it has hurt, I still wish there was an option to turn it off much like you can the passenger air bag.

Not probably, it has.
And your entire post is nothing I haven't heard the past week, but I've yet to see any evidence of it whatsoever.
I have however seen many a review in magazines, all involving professional drivers, some known racing drivers, (hint: not weekend warriors nobody knows of) and every single time the cars involved without ABS have the longest stopping distance.
Examples would be Mosler Photon, Dodge Vipers before they had ABS, etc.

That's not an argument against ABS, it's an argument against idiots.

...Until you panic brake and slam into the back of someone.

Locking up doesn't scare me. I've done it plenty of times and quite safely.

Locking up on the motorway when it's raining and all the cars in front of you stop dead, or when a child runs out in front of you from between parked cars, are completely different scenarios and however good you think you are as a driver, you're better off having ABS in some situations.

Anyone who thinks ABS is some sort of affront to their driving skill is an idiot. Yes, it's quite possible that you can go through life and never need ABS, and you might be able to drive all day long at a race circuit on the threshold of lockup, but you cannot guarantee for that one time in one thousand where someone's life might be at stake, so it's better to have it.

👍
Panic: A sudden overwhelming feeling of terror or anxiety
In a state of any panic situation, muscle control is lessened dramatically.

 

[Azuremen]

I love how people keep insisting they can stop faster without ABS when it has been tested, by professionals, many times over, that ABS out performs even professional drivers.

Get over yourselves, before you kill someone.

 

[homeforsummer]

Basically, I want the car to do exactly what I tell it to do, even when I'm wrong, because while it's good to know what your car can do, it's absolutely necessary to have a deep understanding of what it can't do. 👍

Again, that's all very well, and I'm sure you're a talented driver, but you simply cannot guarantee you'll be braking to the limits of your skill in all situations.

It's fine saying you want the car to do what you tell it "even when I'm wrong", but if that "I'm wrong" happens to be mowing down someone's child in an emergency situation then the whole argument loses its impact.

 

[zutz]

My first two cars were without ABS and having to brake hard on a wet road from medium to high speeds was just awful because the wheels lock up so easily.

Even on a dry motorway i would prefer ABS because in an emergency situation it won't create a wall of tyresmoke. And I prefer not to be standing in a cloud of smoke on an motorway.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Everyone should learn how to drive a car without ABS just so when they DO get into one without it they know what the hell to do.

ABS is a bad thing when people don't know what to do without it.

 

[CSLACR]

Everyone should learn how to drive a car without ABS just so when they DO get into one without it they know what the hell to do.

ABS is a bad thing when people don't know what to do without it.

Very true. It's also bad when people try to "pump" the brakes. (with ABS)
On TG they had an episode showing what needs be done to get your license in Finland, I think, and I loved what they do, even if it's considered overboard, all we have to do here in the U.S. is not break any laws in 10 minutes and sort of parallel park, which isn't even needed for many people.