Accuforce Steering Wheel Thread

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marky5244
I received my AF wheel a couple of days ago.

All I can say is WOW! :-)
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Welcome to the club. ☺

Don't forget to check out the excellent guide i posted above. I have the AF for a couple of months now, but after reading Bedo's guide there still some areas were improvement might be possible.
 
I'm looking at buying one of these in a few months and had a couple of areas that I need a bit of help with

1) What kind of wheel stand would I need to take this? I'm looking at the Omega Stand, Wheel Stand Pro and Next Level Wheel stand at this point. It seems like there would be vibration issues with mounting it on a table.

2) Fanatec Clubsport pedals good enough for this?

3) How hard is installation? Do I need any tools other than a basic screwdriver or something? Would it just bolt on to the stand?
 
RAZRr1275
I'm looking at buying one of these in a few months and had a couple of areas that I need a bit of help with

1) What kind of wheel stand would I need to take this? I'm looking at the Omega Stand, Wheel Stand Pro and Next Level Wheel stand at this point. It seems like there would be vibration issues with mounting it on a table.

2) Fanatec Clubsport pedals good enough for this?

3) How hard is installation? Do I need any tools other than a basic screwdriver or something? Would it just bolt on to the stand?
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1) I'm not familiar with the various race frames but, in most cases, the AF should be adaptable to most frames although, mounting brackets may be needed in some cases. I made a custom mounting solution for my desk that works fine but, the desk is a very sturdy piece and is secured to the wall. You will want a sturdy structure to mount to; some of the lighter race frames have too much flex to accommodate DD wheels.

2) I used CSP v1's with the AF and they worked fine through the USB plug, no issues at all. Of course, there are more robust pedals out there but, the CSP's are certainly decent pedals and can do the job.

3) Much of the installation is pretty straight forward and can be done with basic hand tools. The mounting solution may need modifications in some cases but, there are specific mounting dimensions available on the SimXperience website that may help to determine what modifications may be needed.
 
RAZRr1275
I'm looking at buying one of these in a few months and had a couple of areas that I need a bit of help with

1) What kind of wheel stand would I need to take this? I'm looking at the Omega Stand, Wheel Stand Pro and Next Level Wheel stand at this point. It seems like there would be vibration issues with mounting it on a table.

2) Fanatec Clubsport pedals good enough for this?

3) How hard is installation? Do I need any tools other than a basic screwdriver or something? Would it just bolt on to the stand?
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Hey mate, I have my Accuforce Pro Wheel now mounted to the Next Level GTultimate2 cockpit, the front half of that cockpit is the Next Level Wheel Stand but you can add a seat later to give it extra stability.

I do not know anything about the other wheel stands you mention but I did look at the pics of the wheel stand pro on their website and it looks a little flimsy to me. However I do think with a heavy direct drive wheel such as Accuforce you will eventually need to look at a full cockpit as it is a very strong motor and transfer alot of forces. You can of course turn the forces way down low until such time as you get a full rig setup.

I had to drill 4 holes to accomodate the Ascher mount which I use for my AF. The setup is strong & works well but there is a small amount of flex and I am exploring ways to make it a little more rigid. It doesn't affect the operation of the wheel negatively but I just like everything to feel a bit tighter. I did upgrade from an Obutto Cockpit and I can tell you that thing was like a tank, just so solid and stable due to the steel being a heavier grade and it is a very solid compact built frame. However the new cockpit has many added advantages so it was a trade off but well worth it imho.

I have owned CSP v1's for over 5 years and they were great, never a problem, just recently upgraded to the V3 and like them alot. I think even the Thrustmaster pedals are a nice option.

I have owned my AF Pro Wheel for just over 6 months now and do not regret at all the money spent as it is a fantastic wheel and increases the immersion and quality of fun I have sim racing.

Good luck and let us know how you get on, cheers mark b. :cheers:
 
blanes
Hey mate, I have my Accuforce Pro Wheel now mounted to the Next Level GTultimate2 cockpit, the front half of that cockpit is the Next Level Wheel Stand but you can add a seat later to give it extra stability.

I do not know anything about the other wheel stands you mention but I did look at the pics of the wheel stand pro on their website and it looks a little flimsy to me. However I do think with a heavy direct drive wheel such as Accuforce you will eventually need to look at a full cockpit as it is a very strong motor and transfer alot of forces. You can of course turn the forces way down low until such time as you get a full rig setup.

I had to drill 4 holes to accomodate the Ascher mount which I use for my AF. The setup is strong & works well but there is a small amount of flex and I am exploring ways to make it a little more rigid. It doesn't affect the operation of the wheel negatively but I just like everything to feel a bit tighter. I did upgrade from an Obutto Cockpit and I can tell you that thing was like a tank, just so solid and stable due to the steel being a heavier grade and it is a very solid compact built frame. However the new cockpit has many added advantages so it was a trade off but well worth it imho.

I have owned CSP v1's for over 5 years and they were great, never a problem, just recently upgraded to the V3 and like them alot. I think even the Thrustmaster pedals are a nice option.

I have owned my AF Pro Wheel for just over 6 months now and do not regret at all the money spent as it is a fantastic wheel and increases the immersion and quality of fun I have sim racing.

Good luck and let us know how you get on, cheers mark b. :cheers:
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Thanks so much for the detailed responses! A lot more than I got from emailing their customer support.

I'll go with the Next Level Wheel stand then. I would go for a cockpit but still being in the apartment hopping stage of my life, I don't have the space to fit one.

Is the Ascher mount necessary? I think I remember reading somewhere that it would fit into the Fanatec or Thurstmaster holes already drilled into the stand.

I'm very much looking forward to the upgrade. Recently switched over to pc sims and I'm having a bit of trouble with my DFGT since I drive mostly by feel and I feel like I'm either getting too little from the wheel or getting it too late to correct. I find myself gravitating less towards the smooth is fast style of driving and more towards the Senna style of driving of making an input, continuing it until the car starts to protest, and using the information given to you from the car to correct it before you go offline or land in a wall so direct drive is quite appealing to me.
 
Yesterday a good friend of mine gave me the opportunity to test his brand new AccuForce. I tried the AF in AC for 2 hours and 30 minutes.

This is what I have to say about it on the AC support forum:

kikie at the AC forum
Today I had the opportunity to try out the AccuForce of @ Tim Meuris.

I have been trying my own G27 with a real OMP 35 cm rim and the best way to compare the both steering wheels, besides the impecible FFB of the AF, is the G27 feels like the steering from my father's 41 y.o. Mercedes /8 and the AF feels like the steering of a brand new modern car. It is that big of a difference. The AF is direct, can be adjusted in every detail when it comes to FFB and is very accurate. The G27 with the OMP steering wheel has a lot of play, is less direct and not as accurate, just like my father's old Mercedes. For the money, the G27 is a very good "toy" wheel in it's own right. The AF feels like, when the FFB is to your liking, driving a real car. The G27 feels like driving a game.
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And

kikie at the AC forum
I had the T300RS for a while untill it broke down, which is normal for a T300RS apparently. Turned it in and got my money back. Got an G27 instead. Compared to the G27, the T300RS felt smoother, no more cogging, no more play in the first couple of degrees. The T300RS is a little bit more accurate than the G27. But the FFB information and I'm not speaking of the FFB strenght, didn't feel much different from the G27. Only that, as the T300RS itself, the FFB of the T300RS is also smoother.
As the G27 feels like my father's 41 y.o. Mercedes bar 8 and the AF feels like a brand new modern car, the T300RS feels like a not so new and less modern car but still a better car than my father's Mercedes (which has no powersteering BTW
It is obvious that the G27 is a little outdated.

The T300RS compared to the AF is still pretty huge. Not a big as the G27 vs the AF but still very much different. From memory, I can say that the AF is still more accurate than the T300RS. The T300RS is also as the G27 vague compared to the AF but less vague compared to the G27.


Bottomline;

The G27 really feels like playing with a cheap toy wheel.
The T300RS feels like playing with a better and more expensive but still a toy wheel
The AF feels like driving a real car.

The differences between toy wheels and AF is IMHO subtle but more than subtle enough to warrant the price tag. You cannot expect that the difference is sooooo big that it is an alien wheel so to speak. If someone is in doubt but wants the AF and you can really afford it, go for it.
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Really nice wheel the AF. The G27 feels very vague compared to the AF. I never thought I would say this but the AF really is in a league of it's own, it really is that good. Subtle but nevertheless very good.
 
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kikie
Yesterday a good friend of mine gave me the opportunity to test his brand new AccuForce. I tried the AF in AC for 2 hours and 30 minutes.

Really nice wheel the AF. The G27 feels very vague compared to the AF. I never thought I would say this but the AF really is in a league of it's own, it really is that good. Subtle but nevertheless very good.
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To be fair such large cost differences usually produce greater results.
Plenty of reports to state how good this wheel is and on a new level but should that be such a surprise?

I spent over 2 hours listening to a friends recent purchase, it being a £17,500 LINN HiFi. Quite a lot of money for two speakers, stands and the main component box. I assure you it sounded very good, much better than my own audio. If one component is 7 times or more expensive than the other it is a good reason to expect or indeed bring a better experience when the price differences are rather like night/day for each product.

You dont need a Hi-Fi at £17,500 to enjoy quality and entertaining music, even though it is rather remarkable in various ways (like a much better wheel) however many people are just happy enough to reach a price point that gives them a level of performance/enjoyment most people can relate to being pretty good.

Yes such wheels may dispel the sim/men from the play/boys but it just shows how this market has changed in the last 3-5 years.

Also maybe not for everyone but if sharing opinions, I don't want to spend that money on a wheel I wont be able to enjoy "GT Sport" or any other console racing game that comes out. Call me silly but if some of these macho manly wheels worked with consoles too, I believe more folk would certainly consider them. Fanatec are stuck in the middle, now not deemed good enough by some and awkwardly they still do not seemingly offer PS4 support for Sony 1st party titles having no official license which also puts many people off even buying them. Especially when a "pretty good" Thrustmaster product at half the price will work with all PS4 titles.

Sim Gamers or Sim Enthusiasts it seems the market is changing and getting ever more serious.
 
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Mr Latte
To be fair such large cost differences usually produce greater results.
Plenty of reports to state how good this wheel is and on a new level but should that be such a surprise?

I spent over 2 hours listening to a friends recent purchase, it being a £17,500 LINN HiFi. Quite a lot of money for two speakers, stands and the main component box. I assure you it sounded very good, much better than my own audio. If one component is 7 times or more expensive than the other it is a good reason to expect or indeed bring a better experience when the price differences are rather like night/day for each product.

You dont need a Hi-Fi at £17,500 to enjoy quality and entertaining music, even though it is rather remarkable in various ways (like a much better wheel) however many people are just happy enough to reach a price point that gives them a level of performance/enjoyment most people can relate to being pretty good.

Yes such wheels may dispel the sim/men from the play/boys but it just shows how this market has changed in the last 3-5 years.

Also maybe not for everyone but if sharing opinions, I don't want to spend that money on a wheel I wont be able to enjoy "GT Sport" or any other console racing game that comes out. Call me silly but if some of these macho manly wheels worked with consoles too, I believe more folk would certainly consider them. Fanatec are stuck in the middle, now not deemed good enough by some and awkwardly they still do not seemingly offer PS4 support for Sony 1st party titles having no official license which also puts many people off even buying them. Especially when a "pretty good" Thrustmaster product at half the price will work with all PS4 titles.

Sim Gamers or Sim Enthusiasts it seems the market is changing and getting ever more serious.
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I love that electric servo motors are now the main focus for wheel designers looking to produce the most accurate wheels with the strongest force feedback levels immaginable, and with each design that comes out the wheels get stronger and stronger while costing less and less. The price of servo motors directly affects how quickly the market changes. Hopefully in 5 years there will be servo motors with the strength of the accuforce and OSW that can be purchased for the price of a G25, how great will that be when you can buy an affordable wheel with more usable force feedback than you can handle!
 
So what are the actual force a car produces in real cars?

I've seen 20NM being a very very big hand full...do cars go up that high?
 
swiftwilly
So what are the actual force a car produces in real cars?

I've seen 20NM being a very very big hand full...do cars go up that high?
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IMO people are making the same mistake with FFB forces they make with brake pedal pressure needed. That is they aren't taking into account the g forces that are generated. When you are braking from 200 to 20 mph the g forces are pushing you forward and if you had a pedal with "normal" pressure you would constantly lock them up not being able to modulate the pressure correctly. The stronger pedal force is to compensate for those forces being generated. Same for steering. Its not that the car is producing that much force, its the driver overcoming g forces that makes it seem so heavy. Since we don't have g forces to deal with IMO than the higher forces aren't realistic.
 
fatkrakr
IMO people are making the same mistake with FFB forces they make with brake pedal pressure needed. That is they aren't taking into account the g forces that are generated. When you are braking from 200 to 20 mph the g forces are pushing you forward and if you had a pedal with "normal" pressure you would constantly lock them up not being able to modulate the pressure correctly. The stronger pedal force is to compensate for those forces being generated. Same for steering. Its not that the car is producing that much force, its the driver overcoming g forces that makes it seem so heavy. Since we don't have g forces to deal with IMO than the higher forces aren't realistic.
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The first part about G forces may be true, but the last part is subject to opinion. What makes something unrealistic to some might be the same thing that tickles another's fancy. I for one enjoy strong forces whether or not they are scientifically realistic based on all the outside factors. My brain isn't thinking that the wheel is unnecessarily heavy, it just thinks that the car is a real beast to drive and thus increases my immersion into the world of pretending to be a racecar driver muscling a car around a track.
 
swiftwilly
So real race cars like GT3 cars aren't doing 20NM force?
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I know Indy cars were in that range up until about 3 years ago when they went to power steering. There are probably still some cars out there that are produce that much steering force nowadays but I am not sure.
 
Whatever this Atze says, it is still my personal opinion that the FFB in sim racing is not realistic. A sim generates forces that aren't just there in a real car and this is to compensate for the lack of G-force and feeling you have when you are actually sitting in a car.
As I have said many time, I have more than enough experience in car control IRL, with normal road cars, not race cars, to know that the FFB generated by a sim when oversteering is the opposite of what happens IRL when a car oversteers. Even Tiff Needell said so. Granted, he's not playing a sim at that moment. 1min25sec into the clip.



I'm not disputing that the forces in a real race car are very strong but I bet real race car drivers don't feel the same force generated by the FFB of a sim. I could be wrong though, because the last time I drove a Formula Ford on the Zolder track was in the year 2000. The only thing I clearly remember was that the Formula Ford (the one I tested) was a slow car (my first reaction when I got out of the car was, I said in Dutch: dat gaat voor geen kloten vooruit :D) and that my coccyx (tailbone) was hurting a lot.
Even Atze is talking about G-force acting on your body that is the main source of the forces, just as @fatkrakr said in his post #290. I tend to agree with him.

My father has an old Mercedes bar 8 without powersteering. I'm able to drive it on daily basis if I want to. Well, even this front end heavy non powersteering 41 y.o. Mercedes feels rather light the faster you drive. When standing still, you can barely move the steering wheel, it is that heavy, eventhough the diameter of the steering wheel is a big as the moon.
What I want to say is that FFB and non-powersteering force combined with G-forces are completely different things.

My father's Mercedes

701f5efb.jpg


Almost two years ago, I test drove the Alfa 4C. It has no powersteering and still it was not heavy to drive at all, once you get the car moving. because there is not powersteering in the 4C, there was more feedback, not force feedback, coming from the front wheels or suspension than when a car has powersteering.

On the other hand, when I tested Tim's AccuForce, he changed to settings in simcommander to the level that the Accuforce felt real, just like driving a real (road) car. He didn't fiddle with the FFB settings in Assetto Corsa though.


FFB generated by the Accuforce on the other hand can be very realistic if you find the right settings, like friction. You can still make the AF very heavy or light and still have a natural, realistic feeling. Not when you crack up de FFB in these toy wheels like the Logitech/thrusmaster wheels and in the sim FFB settings.

For me personal, FFB generated by a sim is BS! :D

What others think of FFB is their prerogative and I respect that. :)
 
Well Chris,


The best feature of the accuforce is being able to tune the wheel to your own liking... as you experienced in Tim's rig.

I can agree with you up to some point that powersteered road cars have little to no force feedback. The great thing of the simcommander profiles is that when you are in Assetto Corsa driving the Fiat 500 abarth with Tim's (very low) FFB settings and you want to drive a Formula 3 with realistic settings after that, switching between different cars is so easy....

Just pop on a formula wheel, load a different profile and the accuforce will be so strong that you really want to let it go when you hit the wall because you are afraid of hearting yourself. Not only the force, but the steering degrees, inertia, friction ect ect will be completely different.

From a very subtle normal road car, to a violent race car. Just with a couple of clicks of mouse.

Personally i really like strong FFB on the fast racecars, but just like you, i respect others opinion.
 
With Direct-drive, I also find that having greater dynamic range to work with is a bit like having a grip amplifier. Titles that I used to consider "Icey" are now much easier to handle; it's not the physics or grip that changed, just my perception of it through he wheel. I often think, how can anyone call this icey when the grip feels this massive?:)
 
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HoiHman
Well Chris,


The best feature of the accuforce is being able to tune the wheel to your own liking... as you experienced in Tim's rig.

I can agree with you up to some point that powersteered road cars have little to no force feedback. The great thing of the simcommander profiles is that when you are in Assetto Corsa driving the Fiat 500 abarth with Tim's (very low) FFB settings and you want to drive a Formula 3 with realistic settings after that, switching between different cars is so easy....

Just pop on a formula wheel, load a different profile and the accuforce will be so strong that you really want to let it go when you hit the wall because you are afraid of hearting yourself. Not only the force, but the steering degrees, inertia, friction ect ect will be completely different.

From a very subtle normal road car, to a violent race car. Just with a couple of clicks of mouse.

Personally i really like strong FFB on the fast racecars, but just like you, i respect others opinion.
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Indeed. But the Simcommander looks so complicated if you look at it for the very first time.

It's not only the Simcommander that makes the AF so great. I never thought that I would say this but the AF is the only wheel that feels differently. I mean, it feels so realisticly.
I never thought that I'd be so impressed with a steering wheel like the AF. I understand now why some simracers have to have an AF or a DD wheel.

I have been talking to Tim today and it seems that I made a mistake. Tim did not change the AF FFB but the FFB of the sim through the AF simcommander, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure if I'm correct this time.
 
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