Advantage To A Dynamic Game or Finished Game

[Rusi]

A lot of complaints focus on things that should initially be in the game. Or claiming that the game is not finished. I think that owning a dynamic game (which GT5 is, proven with rumours of monthly updates) is more important than owning a finished game.

To me it seems obvious that the game will change immensly because of hints like the user interface which reminds me of an operating system and not a menu system. I cant wait for PD to add more to this game and I'm glad it wasn't finished when I bought it.

So my question is what is the advantage to a finished GT5 compared to a dyanamic GT5?

 

[freedomweasel]

So my question is what is the advantage to a finished GT5 compared to a dyanamic GT5?

Because when it's not dynamic anymore it has become finished. I would prefer to buy that product instead. Currently I'm being spoonfed updates containing features that are industry standard for racing games.

This is a bizarre question.
Would you rather buy something average and have it improve to good, or buy something good?

 

[Rusi]

This is a bizarre question.
Would you rather buy something average and have it improve to good, or buy something good?

When you add emotive language like average it sounds bizarre... but I'm sure you got windows expecting no updates right?

 

[maSonn09]

Because when it's not dynamic anymore it has become finished. I would prefer to buy that product instead. Currently I'm being spoonfed updates containing features that are industry standard for racing games.

This is a bizarre question.
Would you rather buy something average and have it improve to good, or buy something good?

Well for example. If more resources become available and technology becomes better, PD will want to implement ways in which they can show off by new tracks with dynamic weather and day/night cycles and upgrade the cars to premium and beyond. Patches don't have to be released to fix something, they can be released to add content which wasn't included from the start.

PD stated that there won't be another GT for PS3 so making a finished product wouldn't be good for sales or the fan base. Keeping regular updates with enough new stuff to make a small boy wet himself they keep the interest of people who moan and complain that GT5 is blablabla etc.

 

[Exorcet]

The thing about GT5 is that it lacked things that even past GT's had, and things that 99% of racing games have. As of today, it still lacks qualification, which is absurd.

Even if that wasn't case, it would still be preferable to get everything from the outset. Whether you get something now or later, it's still going to be as fun/unfun as it inherently is. However, if you do get it later, you would have had to go without for a while, which isn't good. I guess what I'm saying is, getting features later does not make those feature any better, but going without those features means the game isn't reaching its full potential.

However, I do advocate game patches because it's not realistic to try to get every possible feature in a game (GT5 in its current form should have been what we got at launch though).

PD stated that there won't be another GT for PS3 so making a finished product wouldn't be good for sales or the fan base.

OK, but imagine what GT5 will be like 2 years from now. If we got all of that this past November, what you have been bored with it just because it all came out at once?

 

[freedomweasel]

When you add emotive language like average it sounds bizarre... but I'm sure you got windows expecting no updates right?

I expect updates to fix bugs and errors, yes.

Well for example. If more resources become available and technology becomes better, PD will want to implement ways in which they can show off by new tracks with dynamic weather and day/night cycles and upgrade the cars to premium and beyond. Patches don't have to be released to fix something, they can be released to add content which wasn't included from the start.

PD stated that there won't be another GT for PS3 so making a finished product wouldn't be good for sales or the fan base. Keeping regular updates with enough new stuff to make a small boy wet himself they keep the interest of people who moan and complain that GT5 is blablabla etc.

True.
I'd love new features as technology/time allows and a "dynamic game", but I definitely meant that line at the end "an average game that turns into a good one". So far, all of the features that have been added either were listed on the back of my box, are common place features in other racing games, or fix bugs.

The exception are the seasonal events, which I do enjoy and were unexpected.

 

[r0llinlacs]

When you add emotive language like average it sounds bizarre... but I'm sure you got windows expecting no updates right?

Windows was a finished product. Anything "fixed" was found after the initial release. This is what "updates" and "patches" are meant for. To fix un-intended or newly found bugs and glitches.

PD thinks patches and updates are the EASY button to immense profitability of an unfinished product.

They knew what they were releasing when they released it. They knew all the bugs and imbalances way before it hit the shelves. Money is the bottom line, their bank account was probably in the negatives after 6+ years of development with no product. So they said hey, we'll just package up what we have now and fix it after we make some money and take a vacation.

^This type of business practice should be illegal. The customer shouldn't have to worry about buying a piece of software that might not work right, or have certain things missing because they didn't have "time" to put them in.

Downright criminal if you ask me...

 

[mangobob]

Holy cow, not one of us would still be alive if Kaz were allowed enough time to "finish" the game before releasing it!

I for one, am glad to have been able to play it since it came out...warts and all. Some things improve, some things get worth with the patches.

Adjust and move on people...

 

[pinkcrusade]

Unfinished does not equal dynamic.

Gt5 is an unfinished game that now includes a patchwork of updates. The "dynamic" updates don't finish the game nor do they address all of the faults the game was delivered with.

I would have much preferred a finished game with DLC which includes new cars as they become available and new tracks or other fun features.

An unfinished game that includes "new" races every two week is nothing special. We already have all of the tracks and all of the cars that are used in the newest "dynamic" features for this week - it doesn't feel dynamic at all

 

[Exorcet]

Adjust and move on people...

I don't understand why someone would come to a forum and disapprove of discussion.

Anyway, GT5's content is not so great that it would take centuries to complete. GT5 never should have taken so long to get here, there is nothing in the game that explains why it took twice as long as anything to be developed.

A long while ago, I was all for PD releasing the game "unfinished" and then patching it, because it seemed as if he was going too far in trying to get everything in it perfected. What I didn't know what that all that had been at that time was probably the icons for the main menu.

Now of course, I was not involved in the making of the game, but if PD is going to keep secretive all while saying their game is "perfection" and ultimate realism, I don't think I'm in the wrong to complain.

 

[r0llinlacs]

Unfinished does not equal dynamic.

Gt5 is an unfinished game that now includes a patchwork of updates. The "dynamic" updates don't finish the game nor do they address all of the faults the game was delivered with.

I would have much preferred a finished game with DLC which includes new cars as they become available and new tracks or other fun features.

Exactly. The only "updates" we should be seeing are DLC cars and tracks, maybe adding weather effects to existing tracks, that kind of stuff. NOT fixes for balance, duping, graphics, physics, and every other CORE part of the game.

 

[Rusi]

Unfinished does not equal dynamic.

I never said it did. I think what I'm trying to say is GT5 is more like an enviornment for real simulated driving and what we are seeing is the community and PD shape that environment "dynamically". Where as a finished game would be more like Super Mario.

 

[r0llinlacs]

I never said it did. I think what I'm trying to say is GT5 is more like an enviornment for real simulated driving and what we are seeing is the community and PD shape that environment "dynamically". Where as a finished game would be more like Super Mario.

So in other words, we are just beta testers that work for free?

 

[Rusi]

So in other words, we are just beta testers that work for free?

Yeah I'm fine with that I would rather have a say in the way the game develops than have no say at all. Or I would rather millions of beta testers instead of a statistical representation of beta testers getting paid. In my opinion when you pay someone to do a study you ruin the experiment. What is interesting is it's the other way round with GT5 we have invested hard earned cash so I think we will be more interested and honest in the development of this game.

 

[Limelight788]

That depends on the game. For a game like this with quite a few features planned in the future but very few true bugs in the game, I prefer it being "dynamic" as the studio can focus more on addressing complaints with the game instead of messing with game-breaking issues. For games that are broken in many aspects and requires a ton of fixing, then they should have just delayed it and finished it up.

 

[Badger-X-]

The minute I first booted GT5 up on launch day and saw the GT Mode main page, it struck me as more of a software framework or platform for racing, driving, and car collecting/appreciation rather than a traditional video game structure.

A lot of the gripes I've seen about GT5 is that it doesn't follow other industry standards and lacks some of the more streamlined content of games like Forza.
I have not played Forza so I can't comment on it vs. GT5 but I appreciate that GT stands in a different category than arcade racers like NFS or Shift.

I agree that GT is a work in progress and definitely felt unfinished at launch but considering PD has been continuously updating and finessing the game since - for the better - I have faith. I think we will see GT5 continue to grow and evolve and I, for one, am very happy it is. In fact, having worked in the video game industry myself for several years, I think that's a direction that is lacking in most games these days considering the technology available. I would love to see more games do away with linearity and evolve organically according to the input of the gamers themselves.

I also think that GT5's depth, specificity, and breadth is not everyone's cup of tea. I think that in itself is the source of a lot of disappointment. Anyone who has played through previous GTs knows that game design elements like obtuse menu arrangements, bad jazz, and some very challenging and difficult events are par for the course with Poliphony Digital. It didn't stop me from playing them all to death, though, and that goes for GT5 too. At least now they CAN release updates and changes.

With some patience and optimism I look forward to GT5's future.

 

[Exorcet]

I never said it did. I think what I'm trying to say is GT5 is more like an enviornment for real simulated driving and what we are seeing is the community and PD shape that environment "dynamically". Where as a finished game would be more like Super Mario.

They could easly do this with a "finished" game. Unless you by finished, you meant they would never touch it again. That just makes this discussion a bit silly.

Also

Where as a finished game would be more like Super Mario

What does that mean?

 

[Caliper]

The problem is that today's games are centered into an online mode, which make developers think this will make the game last longer than it should. It works great on FPS games like Call of Duty but this trend has made the main story campaign shorter and make no sense.

Developers have gotten lazy now with the ability to update games via internet so games are unfinished, shorter and a glitch fest. It's very hard to find a game that carry online play with great story, strong replay value and little glitches.

Now games like Batman Arkham Asylum, Bioshock, Uncharted, GT4, Dead Space, God of War series that have no online play are great games and that is why.

 

[Stephen220378]

A lot of complaints focus on things that should initially be in the game. Or claiming that the game is not finished. I think that owning a dynamic game (which GT5 is, proven with rumours of monthly updates) is more important than owning a finished game.

To me it seems obvious that the game will change immensly because of hints like the user interface which reminds me of an operating system and not a menu system. I cant wait for PD to add more to this game and I'm glad it wasn't finished when I bought it.

So my question is what is the advantage to a finished GT5 compared to a dyanamic GT5?

Hold on, something can't be proven with rumours.

You're defining a "dynamic game" as one that's getting updates to add in features that should have been in since day one, some of which were advertised before the games launch, that's just nonsense. PD aren't doing these updates because they want to or out the goodness of their heart, they're doing them to rectify their mistakes which left the game unfinished.

So now to your question, the advantage is if the game was finished 3 months ago PD could have spent that time working on DLC that would actually add something worthwhile to the game, ie more events, cars, livery editor, whatever else is on peoples wishlists, instead of 3 months down the line still trying to give people the game that we should have already been given.

It's funny how because it's Gran Turismo and Polyphony Digital a game suddenly gets called "dynamic", when any other game would be called an unfinished mess that's required 6 patches in 3 months to try fix.

 

[Rusi]

A finished game would be like Super Mario

What does that mean?

I mean the idea of a finished game is like the developers put all the worlds and secret worlds in the game and you play it, beat it and it's satisfying. GT5 doesn't seem to have this intention in my opinion GT5 is more like minecraft right now. Let's just see what happens.

And

Yeah you're right you can't prove anything with rumours. Maybe I'm reading too much into rumours and the last few updates we got. I guess I just want there to be more attention to the actual environment of the game it seems like things change dynamically according to how the game is being played. Like tweeking the AI, adding features and removing features.

I don't consider more tracks and extra cars as something significant to game developement. Of course it makes the game better but I think what is more important is altering the experience which only comes from changing gameplay which has happened with the last two updates.

 

[Stephen220378]

A finished game would be like Super Mario



I mean the idea of a finished game is like the developers put all the worlds and secret worlds in the game and you play it, beat it and it's satisfying. GT5 doesn't seem to have this intention in my opinion GT5 is more like minecraft right now. Let's just see what happens.

And

Yeah you're right you can't prove anything with rumours. Maybe I'm reading too much into rumours and the last few updates we got. I guess I just want there to be more attention to the actual environment of the game it seems like things change dynamically according to how the game is being played. Like tweeking the AI, adding features and removing features.

I don't consider more tracks and extra cars as something significant to game developement. Of course it makes the game better but I think what is more important is altering the experience which only comes from changing gameplay which has happened with the last two updates.

Things changing dynamically according to how the game is being played reads fixing bugs, glitches and exploits that shouldn't be there in the first place and adding things that were supposed to be there.

Almost everything PD have added to this game has either been present in previous GTs (PP, fully customisable transmission etc) or was advertised as part of the game before launch (remote B-Spec, mechanical damage etc). I mean if we're honest about it, all PD have done is tried to fix their mistakes.

 

[pay2021]

A lot of complaints focus on things that should initially be in the game. Or claiming that the game is not finished. I think that owning a dynamic game (which GT5 is, proven with rumours of monthly updates) is more important than owning a finished game.

To me it seems obvious that the game will change immensly because of hints like the user interface which reminds me of an operating system and not a menu system. I cant wait for PD to add more to this game and I'm glad it wasn't finished when I bought it.

So my question is what is the advantage to a finished GT5 compared to a dyanamic GT5?

From my understanding GT5 is not a finished game, when you say dynamic i read "pacheable", the changes in the economy and carrer points via downloads are for me patches, the dynamic part is the posibility for "back and foward" some features that they must be in from day 0, look at the car own check.

Also, IMO, the SE are clearly a patch for the unsustained economy of the game.

I choose a finished game, thank God we have the posibility for modified the game via internet, you can look at this feature and call it "dynamic" but im not sure if is the word to use.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

While you may want to refer to GT5 as a finished or dynamic game, the truth is, it's a very poor effort at either one.

The game itself was anything but a finished game by most quality standards and certainly by PD's previous GT standards.

The seasonals, updates, and DLC are just more of the same as in the game.

Devices to further stall the player through an unfinished half game with no depth of events.
An attempt to mete out crumbs of content in an effort to prolong the players experience.
Thats why you have a horrible xp-level and unbalanced credit system.

Again this is a very poor way to try to extend the life of a game that had too short a life to start with.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

I always thought of GT5 as a racing "platform" for PS3.

I'm an online racer, and I like organizing things on forums like the lovely one we have here at GTP.

GT5 presents an amazing platform on which to organize online meets, races, and events. I really don't care about XP levels, A-spec, B-spec, nor Prize Cars or trading.

At the end of the day, GT5 is the definitive platform to organize an online racing series on PS3 because the designers gave us a PC-quality user interface for online races (see console version in F1 2010).

All this angst, all this remorse and regret directed towards the developers amazes me sometimes. All I see is a huge palette of cars, a reasonable amount of customization and setup options, and a decent selection of beautiful tracks, and my imagination.

 

[skylinefx]

A dynamic game is an online game like World of Warcraft. GT5 isn't that. PD will shut GT5's servers down a few months after GT6 is released...

 

[DIA1974]

PD will shut GT5's servers down a few months after GT6 is released...

That gives us what, PS4 + 6 years, give or take?

The modern world dictates that companies can continue development of any game long after it has been first released. Does this make the game companies lazy? Yes. Does it mean I'd rather have had another 12 month wait before getting my hands on GT5? No.

I accept that we have become global beta testers, but I haven't felt that GT5 is the unpolished turd that others have. I enjoy the game, appreciate it isn't everything to everyone, and that it has shortcomings.

The best thing about the new world is that it gives PD full access to the gameplay stats - they know without any doubt how much the game is being played, which elements are being played, what parts people concentrate on, and where they manipulate the gameplay to their benefit. They do this without needing to use study groups etc, they pull all the data straight from the game itself. This in itself will lead to more dynamic content in the game as the stats show the trends within the game.

 

[dan27111978]

they know without any doubt how much the game is being played, which elements are being played, what parts people concentrate on

They only know they game preferrences of about 5 million rubber bands. Based on the data they can accumulate from the way the game is played they will probably fill GT6 with lots of Indy clones you can run the X2017 on.

 

[hyyperactive]

GT5: the real indy driving simulator.

If gt5 is dynamic every game is dynamic nowadays. Most pc-games are probably super dynamic. Imho it's just a nice word for saying that the game is in serious need of of patches and the developers are patching it up. gt5 at least is in serious need of patches. If that makes is "dynamic" then be it.

 

[Destinkeys]

The only evidence of a 'dynamic' system in GT5 has been the dumbing down of the game because 4 million ten year olds found it too hard to beat in a week...

 

[Rosemeyer78]

IMHO today's games are so enormous and sophisticated that's impossible to launch "the perfect game" on the day one.

Luckily, with the network, today the developers can correct any errors and add contents .. preferably following the advice and trends of the community ..