AE86 vs. Miata

[advanR]

What in the world separates these two cars? They are both very light rear wheel drive cars. It seems so many people like the AE86, but most people hate the Miata. Why?

The miata even has more power. 170hp vs. 127hp or so. And im sure the miata has a higher top power potential.

Is it just because there is an anime and manga series based on the AE86? That seems very superficial.

I like the AE86 as well, its fun to drive. But i think it oversteers way too much. Just as a car can understeer too much, I think one can oversteer too much. Its very hard to get the car to make grip. If you turn the car too sharp the rear steps out and you find yourself trying to tuck it back in. But if you get it tucked back into place you find yourself understeering into the wall.

You can even compare the Miata to the Shigeno version if you would like.

 

[ving]

trouble maker

miata whoops the ae86s' butt any day

 

[advanR]

id like to delete this post. i wanted to make a poll and messed up. if a mod sees this please delete it.

 

[RX-7 Turbo II]

Originally posted by advanR
The miata even has more power. 170hp vs. 127hp or so.

170hp In a MX-5/Miata?!?!
Tuned maybe, but not stock!!!

I like the AE86 more, 'cuz I know how to handle the car!!
You'd see drifting as a friend, not a enemy!!

 

[RX-7 Turbo II]

By-the-way... the most powerfull MX-5 has 146hp @ 7.000rpm from a 1.840cc inline-4 (in the Netherlands)

 

[Duke]

The MX-5 is a much more balanced chassis. Nothing against the AE86 which is good for what it is; but it will never be as tossable as the little Miata.

 

[RX-7 Turbo II]

True... I think the MX-5/Miata offers more driving-pleasure... but I like the AE86 more then the MX-5/Miata (In GT3)

 

[CFM]

I'd agree the the Miata is the better all around car as it is better balanced with more nuetral handling, and better suited to most types of drivers,and especialy "grip style". Them crazy drift style guys love the AE86 since its so easy to kick the rear end out.

 

[AE86Driver]

AE86 all the way!that's my two cents =P

AE86Driver

 

[toyomatt84]

I agree with AE86, miatas are fun but they don't touch a shigeno version ae86.

 

[TingBoy]

miata's can't keep up wit shigeno...maybe normal one tho
mine can compete wit tuscans lol
wit only 256 hp

 

[Vasco]

Miata's in GT3 can go up to 160 bhp stock on myn.

 

[Kent]

I couldnt really say which I like more, but if I was gonna pick one out of my garage, I would pick the mazda I have simply because the settings and tuning are put to the test of my racing time...

My other one is not set up and it just doesnt have the same time on it as the miata.

 

[askia47]

AE86 for me

 

[Klonie Gun]

Ratings for the two cars:

AE86: Better handling

MX-5 Miata: More Power

 

[Duke]

Actually, I disagree with that. I think that the Miata handles better - it seems much more balanced.

The Corolla is good car, and it has a sporty character, but it is not a sports car... Having run it against a variety of other budget cars in a GT3 competition, the Miata is definitely better. So are the Silvia and the MRS spyder.

 

[TruenoAE86]

Well obviously the miata is a better car, the trueno is 20 years old for god sakes. And the think the 2 sub $18 000 miatas only have 118 hp and 128 hp . Really it's like comparing apples and oranges. Like neo_duke said The miata is a 2 seater sports car, the trueno is just a sporty car that happens to have some interesting handling characteristics. The trueno is just special to some people because of initial d, and the fact that there really are no more small cheap non 2 seater FR cars anymore (well at least not in Canada and the US). A much better comparison would be the Old MR2(not in GT3), it has the same engine as the Trueno but it's smaller and lighter. I don't know much about the miata and the MR2 but I figure they are pretty equal.

You know I wonder if people would be interested in a stock Trueno VS stock 118 hp Miata spot race. They actually might be equal in GT3 but I doubt the Trueno could keep up in real life given equal drivers.

 

[LowTEC-Derbo]

sup truenoae86!

I have to agree with you on this one. The AE86 just really have special characteristics in handling that a lot of people favor. Oversteer. Also you do have to consider that the AE86 engine has been called the best inline-4 engine of it's time. 5 valves per cylinder is pretty crazy for it's time in an 4cylinder engine.

I really just like the AE86 because of price and what you are getting for it. A FR for very cheap in real life if you find a good one. That's not really available here anymore like TruenoAE86 says.

 

[RX-7 Turbo II]

Originally posted by aznimport
5 valves per cylinder is pretty crazy for it's time in an 4cylinder engine.

Does the AE86's engine has 20V?? (4cyl x 5valves/cyl)
I think it has a 1.6 16v twin-cam!! (4valves/cyl)

 

[TruenoAE86]

Originally posted by RX-7 Turbo II
Does the AE86's engine has 20V?? (4cyl x 5valves/cyl)
I think it has a 1.6 16v twin-cam!! (4valves/cyl)

Yes the stock engine in the Trueno has 16 valves but there is a 20 valve version of the same engine. The 20 valve engine is in the Shigeno version of the trueno.

 

[TruenoAE86]

Well I decided to do some testing to see if the Trueno could keep up with the Miata. First I took them to complex string.... Well, they are a lot more equal than I expected but the lack of a LSD really slowed the Trueno down. I don't know if the Miata has a LSD, but it didn't feel like it needed one. It's definitely a driver’s race.

There is very little difference in acceleration or top speed, but the Miata is easier to drive and more forgiving if you make a mistake.

The Miata was the one that costs $17 000 with an oil change other than that it was completely stock. The Trueno also had no mods.

After that I added all the mods to each car and took them to midfield. This time the Trueno had a tiny bit more straight line speed but it was negligible and the Miata was just plain easier to drive, but there is was no clear victor, either car could win; it was just a matter of how many laps I did.

 

[Race Idiot]

Originally posted by TruenoAE86
Yes the stock engine in the Trueno has 16 valves but there is a 20 valve version of the same engine. The 20 valve engine is in the Shigeno version of the trueno.

But I thought that the Shigeno version wasn't even a real car.
Bah I don't know.

I suppose it also depends on your driving style, I think on my first GT3 save (way way back in september 2001) I used the Trueno, I don't think I had many problems with the car's handling while stock, but I had real trouble driving it with even a spec 1 turbo, although at the time I didn't know about setting up suspension properly. On my current (4th time around) save I used the Trueno again and having learned a few new setup techniques I was able to take off a little of the understeer although I think it's impossible to entirely get rid of it.

The MX-5 (or Miata) is alot nicer handling wise, seeming to have more ballanced handling (probably because it's a newer car) and I can't remember having as many oversteer problems with it. So I would say if you are a complete begginer go with the MX-5.

Although i'd say that the Trueno is slightly heavier than the MX-5 so that about equals out the Power.

 

[TruenoAE86]

Originally posted by Race Idiot
But I thought that the Shigeno version wasn't even a real car.
Bah I don't know.

.

The shigeno version is not a real production car, it's Shuichi Shigeno's car, he is the author of the manga Initial d. It's basicaly a tuned trueno, with the 20 valve engine. Someone at PD met him(or something) becasue Initial d is very poplular so they decided to put his car in the game.

 

[TingBoy]

Shigeno and the director(or someone like dat) of GT3 r friends

 

[advanR]

wow, im surprised truenoae86 actually knows what he's talking about. hes not a Japanese fanboy. thats a surprise.

anyway, i didnt see this thread was resurrected until now.

no, the shigeno car is not real. no, the 4ag motor in a stock ae86 does not have 20valves. (checkout club4ag.com if you want to learn some of this stuff, it is a great ae86 community). the 20 valve engine commonly swapped into ae86's is from an ae92 corolla i think. correct me please trueno, if i am wrong.

also, let me respond to some more posts:

the ae86 does not handle better.

i think i posted some of these points in the actual thread that had the pole "ae86 vs miata". i found the ae86 just had too much oversteer. it wasnt managable oversteer. just oversteer. much like a car can understeer like a pig, and results in bad lap times, the ae86 has too much oversteer to use the most of its potential (power and wieght). when the rear steps out in a corner, you can either tuck it back in by countersteering, which results in understeer, or you can continue oversteering to the point where you are not putting power down to the tarmac.

I dont consider even the 20 valve 4ag the best 4-cylinder of its time. it has an amazing sound and high revving characteristics, but like honda engines, it lacks torque. and because of its small displacement it has a lower peak power potential for an NA setup. I would probably consider the S14 motor in the E30 M3 one of the best 4-cylinders of the 80s. its 2.3 motor had 195hp stock. Later evolutions of the M3 in germany made 238hp at 2.5liters. a race prepared S14 could make slightly over 300hp. a streetable 260hp is possible from it. The S14 was derived from the m10 f1 engine, and is actually 2/3rds of the m635CSi's 6 cylinder. There may be a better NA 4-cylinder from the 80s, but this is only to my knowledge.

it is now over 15 years later, and even at its time the ae86 was not an amazing car. the honda crx of the time was lighter, had better handling and was overall more quick.

those who said a miata cannot compete with a shigeno ae86 do not know the shigeno is just a tuned ae86. a tuned miata can be much quicker than a tuned ae86. just look at what "flyin miata's" has done. they have turbo miatas making something like 4-500hp. all for such a light car.

my initial comparision of the cars was comparing the latest mx-5 miata with the ae86. i made the comparision because at the time i was seeing such disrespect for the miata, while so many fanboys were praising the ae86 like it was the best car ever made. im thankful for the testing truenoae86 did. i find it interesting that a miata that makes 50hp less than the mx-5 is still on par with the ae86. maybe in the future i will organize a race series. if i put some effort into it, we can allow an evenly matched mx-5 to compete with the shigeno ae86. this would be a good challenge to coincide with the z06 vs r34 grudge match.

 

[TruenoAE86]

Originally posted by advanR

maybe in the future i will organize a race series. if i put some effort into it, we can allow an evenly matched mx-5 to compete with the shigeno ae86. this would be a good challenge to coincide with the z06 vs r34 grudge match.

Humm, i don't know about this, the Trueno SS in GT3 is abnormally fast almost like it has more hp than is says it does, ill have to mod one of the faster Miata's and see if it can keep up. I often race my 335hp Trueno SS against a 615hp Skyline GTR and the Trueno SS will pull on the skyline on the straights.

 

[TruenoAE86]

Okay this time i used the Miata 1.8 RS... Fully moded it puts out 338 hp; I think the LS might have a tiny bit more but I’m not sure. Since this particular Miata can only be NA tuned I used an NA tuned Trueno S.S at 279 HP. I took the cars out to apricot hill, and as I suspected even with 60hp less than the Miata the Trueno could easily keep up, it would fall back on the straights slightly but it was just plain faster through the corners and the handling was much better. I think mainly the brakes were much better and it does have some down force so it had more grip on the high-speed corners. Fully moded the Trueno S.S will put out 381hp so that would not be a fair race at all. But seriously the fully tuned regular Trueno VS a fully tuned 17 000 credit Miata is really a perfect match. The Trueno SS is more than just a moded Trueno; it's more like a racecar with a Trueno shell.

 

[RX-7 Turbo II]

Originally posted by advanR
checkout club4ag.com if you want to learn some of this stuff, it is a great ae86 community).

Wow, great link... thx for that!! 👍

Originally posted by advanR
the 20 valve engine commonly swapped into ae86's is from an ae92 corolla i think.

But let's get some things straight...
- The Trueno GT-Apex has the 1.6 16v engine
- The Trueno SS has the 1.6 20v engine (in GT3)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong!!

 

[TruenoAE86]

Originally posted by RX-7 Turbo II


But let's get some things straight...
- The Trueno GT-Apex has the 1.6 16v engine
- The Trueno SS has the 1.6 20v engine (in GT3)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong!!

Yes, but the Trueno S.S is Shiuchi Shigeno's real life car. All the cars in GT3 are modled after real cars, there are no fictional cars in GT3 (I think). So somewhere (In japan probably) exists that car. It has the 20 valve engine and a bunch of other modifications.

 

[RX-7 Turbo II]

Originally posted by TruenoAE86
Yes, but the Trueno S.S is Shiuchi Shigeno's real life car.

Shiuchi Shigeno is the author of the Initial D comics right??