After a 10 day hiatus I gave GT7 a second chance

[Supaboost]

That's nonsense...

The driving physics of GT7 a far better and far more realistic than the physics in GTS, different cars actually do behave and react differntly now...GTS was far to easy, pretty much all FR cars(or all Gr3 cars) behaved more or less the same, once you've figured it out you could take pretty much all the corners the same way with different cars and there where wide turns you could take flat out with no troubles at al(eg. second turn in Alsace)

Second Turn in Alsace now is a challenge with some cars, you have to figure out how fast you can go and which line to take with every car, and with some you can't do it full throttle like in GTS...I like that:It is more challenging but far more rewarding!

Edit: one sign that GTS was too easy: I completed all CEs in GTS in gold(except Sarthe),even the Nordschleife, and I am not a very good driver(was C/D in the online races, never better) and I play with pad and automatic transmission.So if that is possible, it cannot be a difficult racing game...

So you write an essey about physics when i specified ONLINE. Guess you avoided that for the simple fact GT7s online is a joke, some how far worse then its predecessor.

And both GT7 and Sports physics are fake/easy to drive. Far from real life. I can jump between them easily with no descernable difference, feel liek same old GT. What ever diifferences they make behind the scenes, its still build upon the easy of use for gamers casuals philospphy. The game has no hardcore realism option.

 

[Rodion Raskol]

The physics aren't as described for detuned cars. For the Sardegna WTC 800 race, for example, if you do it with a boosted Gr.3 car, it is indeed horrible, but if you do it with a detuned Gr.2 or Gr.1 car, they're super grippy, stable and easy to drive.

It’s pretty good with the Alfa and Mazda imo. maybe the gr2 and 1 Aero is helping, it certainly does on the GT500 Nissan NSX. I found it pretty bad with the GR2 Lexus. Find the mid engine helps a great deal at Sardegna.


it’s the modern way, everyone wants participation trophies. Not directed at you by the way.

 

[m76]

Well, in that case it’s up to you what you make of it and if you feel the need or want to adapt to it.
I never questioned your Skills though.
It’s a matter of what you make of it or willing to make of it.

I specifically stated that I don't want to adopt to something that is clearly unrealistic and makes no sense in the context of known real world physics.

You know what’s ever more funny to me?!

People who have to explain everything to death instead of accepting the simplicity and making the best out of what has been offered.
Nothing or nobody is perfect, nor am I.
I just try to make the best of it, and don’t complain.

That's a terrible attitude to have, just take what's given to you and never complain. Some people take valid criticism as a complaint, or worse harassment. But games get better because we "complain" you think polyphony would've ever raised race rewards if we just "tried to make the best of it and didn't complain" ?

I agree. GT7 definitely isn't the most realistic racer out there, but a return to GTS' driving model would just kill the game for me.

In GT7 I look forward to driving every car I buy/earn because each of them feel like they have their own character. GTS didn't have that for me, especially with the FWD cars...

I'm not suggesting that GT7 must go back to GTS physics, albeit even that would be an improvement over its current state. I don't mind the added realism, what I mind is where it completely misses the point. If the added realism comes with every car being a squirelly nightmare to drive, then, I'd rather not have it.

As the saying goes let the cobbler stick to his last.

 

[Gabe777]

I believe that Polyphony Digital is still working on a future patch to fix the physics & AI so it will take several months.

Aw come on.

One more post saying next patch next patch next patch .... OMG.

This a busted game. Not made by people that made the earlier ones.

Impossible to play with a wheel. The only feedback I get is by noise. No idea if losing traction till it's too late.

Can't even calibrate the axes on wheel and pedals. 2 inches on my brake pedal is 100 percent. It's a joke.

Even Dirt 1 from 15 years ago had more tuning for wheels... sensitivity, linearity FFB options etc. FIFTEEN years ago !

This should be recalled. If it was on Steam it would be review-bombed.

I actually prefer any Codemasters game. Considering going back to Forza 7. THAT is scary.

 

[RedRockValley]

If the added realism comes with every car being a squirelly nightmare to drive, then, I'd rather not have it.

Every car?

I don't think we've been playing the same game here. I do believe that the physics could be improved further, FFB needs a rework and that some cars have worse physics than others... But every car?? Not to be rude, but that sounds more like a you problem...

Just to add, since you insist that GTS physics are better than GT7 physics... Do you think that FWD cars drive better in GTS than they do GT7?

 

[CHEN255]

“I'm not suggesting that GT7 must go back to GTS physics, albeit even that would be an improvement over its current state. I don't mind the added realism, what I mind is where it completely misses the point. If the added realism comes with every car being a squirelly nightmare to drive, then, I'd rather not have it.”

ehh what? I’m a slightly above average GT driver at best on a good day and I can get the cars around the tracks just fine. I adjust my driving if I push the car and it reacts badly. I could get away with things in GTS that will bite me hard if I try them in GT7. To even suggest going back to GTS physics is just plain wrong. I like the handling in GT7, it’s the best in the series so far.

 

[m76]

Every car?

I don't think we've been playing the same game here. I do believe that the physics could be improved further, FFB needs a rework and that some cars have worse physics than others... But every car?? Not to be rude, but that sounds more like a you problem...

Just to add, since you insist that GTS physics are better than GT7 physics... Do you think that FWD cars drive better in GTS than they do GT7?

Now you are just arguing semantics, clinging to a notion of but it's not all! Like even 10% of cars behaving completely opposite to expectation would be acceptable.

Obviously I was exaggerating, not all cars are equally bad to drive, some are much worse than others, and there are some that fall on the other side of the spectrum where they are become like driving on rails. But that's not realism either.

As I mentioned already somewhere, just because a game is harder to control, doesn't make it automagicallly more realistic, or Odyssey by Car would be the most realistic car game ever.

But I did want to address something that bugged me from your previous post, so thanks for reminding me.

Do you think that FWD cars drive better in GTS than they do GT7?

By a country mile. In GT7 the differences between FWD and RWD cars are negligible. There is no clear difference in how you need to drive them, which bugged me from day one.

In GTS you need a completely different driving method to reign in FF cars, as they torque steer and understeer under power as you'd expect. Which also translates perfectly into the force feedback effects of GTS, none of which is represented in GT7. In GT7 torque steer and understeering tendency of FF cars is so vague that you essentially need to drive them the same as FR cars, which tells a story of its own on the supposed accuracy of GT7 physics.

ehh what? I’m a slightly above average GT driver at best on a good day and I can get the cars around the tracks just fine. I adjust my driving if I push the car and it reacts badly. I could get away with things in GTS that will bite me hard if I try them in GT7. To even suggest going back to GTS physics is just plain wrong. I like the handling in GT7, it’s the best in the series so far.

Welcome to the party, too bad you missed most of it, as these non-arguments were already addressed extensively, but just to sum it up quickly:

1. Many people seem to misconstrue not finding the game fun or realistic as somehow the result of a lack of skill. Which of course is patently debunked by the fact that I completed most of the game winning all the races up to the point where I stopped bothering. Also did gold on the missions and license tests I completed.
2. Just because GT7 is more punishing, doesn't make it more realistic. Imagine if driving even a relatively tame sports car was as "punishing" in real life as it was in GT7, there would be a ton of dead people in ditches.

 

[sejtur]

There's a guy on this forum who drives the AMG GT IRL on track days, and he said that the experience lined up very well with the one in GT7, driving the AMG GT in game.

 

[Staquix]

It's always frustrating when you work at something and get it figured out then somebody changes the rules.

I don't feel the game is all that far from what I would expect in a real car.

 

[The Cake]

Problem for me is that whenever I turn the car, and I apply over 50% acceleration, the car will spin out. Doesnt matter if it 100 bhp, or 500. Only work around is don't press accelator over 50% out of corners. And setups

 

[Goshin2568]

By a country mile. In GT7 the differences between FWD and RWD cars are negligible. There is no clear difference in how you need to drive them, which bugged me from day one.

In GTS you need a completely different driving method to reign in FF cars, as they torque steer and understeer under power as you'd expect. Which also translates perfectly into the force feedback effects of GTS, none of which is represented in GT7. In GT7 torque steer and understeering tendency of FF cars is so vague that you essentially need to drive them the same as FR cars, which tells a story of its own on the supposed accuracy of GT7 physics.

Okay, before this I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, because I agreed with most of your points about the flaws in GT7, I just thought you were overexaggerating gt7's flaws while glossing over those of GTS.


But this quote makes me think something is definitely wrong, because literally what the hell are you talking about??


Everything you're saying is true, if you swap GT7 and GTS. In GTS, you didn't get enough power oversteer with RWD, and you didn't get enough lift off oversteer with FWD, which made them way too similar. In GT7, you get lift off oversteer in FWD, which you don't get in RWD, and power oversteer in RWD that you don't get in FWD. And, if anything, the FWD torque steer is much more noticeable in GT7.


I absolutely have no idea what to say to you if you think those feel the same. In RWD too much gas on corner exit will have you spun around. In FWD, you'll torque steer headfirst into a wall. In RWD if you lift off the gas in the middle of a corner, your line will tighten up as your front tires get more grip. In FWD you back end will come around. How are those remotely similar? They're literally polar opposites.

 

[gambleboyen]

I did try a stint of GT Sport the other day and boy did that make me disappointed in GT7. 7 years of development and they make a game that's worse in so many ways.

 

[m76]

I absolutely have no idea what to say to you if you think those feel the same. In RWD too much gas on corner exit will have you spun around. In FWD, you'll torque steer headfirst into a wall. In RWD if you lift off the gas in the middle of a corner, your line will tighten up as your front tires get more grip. In FWD you back end will come around. How are those remotely similar? They're literally polar opposites.

Which is how it supposed to be, and even if a bit crudely is how it works in GTS, but not even remotely how it is in GT7. In GT7 if I lift both FR and FF cars will oversteer, making them feel very similar.

And FR cars Without an LSD should just spin the inside wheel, coming out of corners, but no, it goes instantly into doing donuts in GT7, like I have a welded diff. That's the best I can describe how FR cars behave in GT7, like they all have welded diffs.

 

[Goshin2568]

Which is how it supposed to be, and even if a bit crudely is how it works in GTS, but not even remotely how it is in GT7. In GT7 if I lift both FR and FF cars will oversteer, making them feel very similar.

And FR cars Without an LSD should just spin the inside wheel, coming out of corners, but no, it goes instantly into doing donuts in GT7, like I have a welded diff. That's the best I can describe how FR cars behave in GT7, like they all have welded diffs.

I have around 3k miles in GT7 and I have never experienced anything that feels like FF lift off oversteer in a RWD car. Any specific car and corner examples, or videos you'd like to share?


And, an even more important point, there is no power oversteer in FWD cars in GT7, which is perhaps the most defining characteristic of the RWD cars in this game.


Your point about FR cars having weird differentials is fair, and I'd agree, but that's not what I'm disputing. You claimed FWD and RWD cars handle the same or very similarly in GT7, and that is just not at all my experience.

 

[m76]

I have around 3k miles in GT7 and I have never experienced anything that feels like FF lift off oversteer in a RWD car. Any specific car and corner examples, or videos you'd like to share?

Like the Audi R8 LM in the first gone with the wind mission. When you lift in that car, it will weirdly get into a semi controlled drift towards the indside of the corner, that you can't get out of without loosing a ton of speed. 9 out of 10 times, it will happen in the first corner to me, and the result is the car I just overtook crashing into the back of my slowing down vehicle, causing me to fail the mission.

And, an even more important point, there is no power oversteer in FWD cars in GT7, which is perhaps the most defining characteristic of the RWD cars in this game.

I didn't say there was, but since you can't accelerate out of corners with RWD cars without risking a spin, you can't really drive them as you would an RWD car in other sims, so the driving experience becomes very similar. Just walking on eggshells, instead of driving cars to the limit, because the limit is an artbitrary line, that you can't feel in GT7, maybe due to the terrible force feedback, maybe due to the wonky phyiscs, but probably due to both.

Your point about FR cars having weird differentials is fair, and I'd agree, but that's not what I'm disputing. You claimed FWD and RWD cars handle the same or very similarly in GT7, and that is just not at all my experience.

I think I specifically said there is no difference in how you need to approach driving them. Not that they all handle exactly the same, there are wild differences in handling between various cars with the same drivetrain already. Adding a two way LSD to some cars already changes their handling by way more than it has any right to.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Like the Audi R8 LM in the first gone with the wind mission. When you lift in that car, it will weirdly get into a semi controlled drift towards the indside of the corner, that you can't get out of without loosing a ton of speed. 9 out of 10 times, it will happen in the first corner to me, and the result is the car I just overtook crashing into the back of my slowing down vehicle, causing me to fail the mission.

I didn't say there was, but since you can't accelerate out of corners with RWD cars without risking a spin, you can't really drive them as you would an RWD car in other sims, so the driving experience becomes very similar. Just walking on eggshells, instead of driving cars to the limit, because the limit is an artbitrary line, that you can't feel in GT7, maybe due to the terrible force feedback, maybe due to the wonky phyiscs, but probably due to both.

I think I specifically said there is no difference in how you need to approach driving them. Not that they all handle exactly the same, there are wild differences in handling between various cars with the same drivetrain already. Adding a two way LSD to some cars already changes their handling by way more than it has any right to.

Honestly, instead of writing the same nonsense every day and letting others who apparently have no idea but plenty of time to gossip praise you and give you likes, you should learn to drive in this game, or the game PLEASE finally let it be.

YOU can't drive in this game... but that's just the game's fault... OH man!

 

[Samus]

Honestly, instead of writing the same nonsense every day and letting others who apparently have no idea but plenty of time to gossip praise you and give you likes, you should learn to drive in this game, or the game PLEASE finally let it be.

YOU can't drive in this game... but that's just the game's fault... OH man!

Except PD themselves have acknowledged there is a problem and they're looking into it.



So yes, it is the games fault.

 

[Wools]

...Easily the worst physics and feedback I've ever experienced.

 

[nicefrog]

Man I've played to death every GT since the first one came out. Always pre ordered it from Japan to get it as early as possible. Raced in post your time leagues before there was even online racing. I consider myself an extreme GT hardcore. But this game lights a fire under my autistic qualities and makes me hate life itself. So many things about it are idiot inexcusable decisions and so many obvious in your face annoying design flaws.

It's as if no one has been to work at polophony or play tested this demo code in ten years. I can't stand unfinished games at the best of times but this is next level stuff. Sony should never have let it out the door. I'm forcing myself to play it now that credits are easier but it makes me feel sick everytime.

 

[Scaff]

There's a guy on this forum who drives the AMG GT IRL on track days, and he said that the experience lined up very well with the one in GT7, driving the AMG GT in game.

The only member I can recall posting anything about tracking his AMG-GTR said quite the opposite.

Gran Turismo 7 Physics

This is one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen on the internet. Doesn't anyone listen? 5/1 in-game FFB, 100% in the wheel, and don't turn past the point where you start sliding, where the FFB becomes smooth/dead. How ****ing hard is it? Stay within the boundaries where the FFB feels...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[kilesa4568]

The inevitable fate of every heckler.

 

[LSFDRX]

Impossible to play with a wheel. The only feedback I get is by noise. No idea if losing traction till it's too late.

I really appreciate when people spout blanket statement BS like this, as it let's me know who to take seriously, and who to laugh about.

"Impossible", yet here are a lot of us doing just fine, having a great time, all the while still aware of issues. FFB can be better, sure, but impossible? Ha ha ha! What a joke. I've played it with a controller ONCE during the initial music rally before the intro, THAT'S IT, so how would you explain golds on everything and me enjoying, working with, and really having a wonderful time with this mildly flawed game? I must be a GOD amongst GODS if me and others have all done well with an IMPOSSIBLE to use steering wheel?!

The reality is, you can't feel the car anyways. Game steering wheels are a stop gap to reality. Driving a car at the limit is easier when you can feel the car, and zero wheels in any game can account for that, so you have to make concessions like we all do. Learn, fail, predict, adapt, change, get better.... or stop. I have built a memory for how cars drive in this game through effort and time, just like so many others. You have to fill in with your mind all the things the car would be telling you that the wheel doesn't. We all do.

Really though, a surefire way to make people disregard everything you say is to make wild blanket statements that are in no way anchored in truth, and so insanely easy to disprove that it's not worth the breath. I just love a little bit of conflict.

 

[sejtur]

The only member I can recall posting anything about tracking his AMG-GTR said quite the opposite.

Gran Turismo 7 Physics

This is one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen on the internet. Doesn't anyone listen? 5/1 in-game FFB, 100% in the wheel, and don't turn past the point where you start sliding, where the FFB becomes smooth/dead. How ****ing hard is it? Stay within the boundaries where the FFB feels...

www.gtplanet.net

The only member I can recall posting anything about tracking his AMG-GTR said quite the opposite.

Gran Turismo 7 Physics

This is one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen on the internet. Doesn't anyone listen? 5/1 in-game FFB, 100% in the wheel, and don't turn past the point where you start sliding, where the FFB becomes smooth/dead. How ****ing hard is it? Stay within the boundaries where the FFB feels...

www.gtplanet.net

The guy I’m talking about was also posting in that thread, I’ll try to look it up later.