Ai behaviour in career?PS4

[crowhop]

My experience is with the PC version, so the results may vary.
I also race with the AI and Race Length set to 100.

Does the AI have the same speed in dry and on wet?
No. 2-3 seconds a lap slower at Snetterton, for example.


My question is primarily pertains to the AI Pace going forward. I can win the Clio races with the AI set to 100. Can I assume I will be able to win all remaining Career races by the same margin? Does the quality of the AI get "tougher" over time, depending on the discipline?

Also, let us say in 4 months I want to start over and redo a career, starting again the Clio Cup. If I find I am now 2 seconds faster per lap, will the AI adjust its pace or will I simply just outpace them by 2 seconds more per lap?

 

[azidahaka]

bugs over bugs i would say. Try do the same driving yourself and your lap times will drop along the race...

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I was running a couple of short solo races last night at 80% and starting from the rear in a 20 car event. I found it easy to catch the AI but the AI just did not seem to even notice I was on the track. They would cut me off, brake check me, move over into me as I was going past, knocked me off track a few times and made for a poor race experience. Basically the challenge was trying to get past the AI cars without them hitting me or causing me to hit them. Speed wise is was cake to outrun them.

 

[crowhop]

I was running a couple of short solo races last night at 80% and starting from the rear in a 20 car event. I found it easy to catch the AI but the AI just did not seem to even notice I was on the track. They would cut me off, brake check me, move over into me as I was going past, knocked me off track a few times and made for a poor race experience. Basically the challenge was trying to get past the AI cars without them hitting me or causing me to hit them. Speed wise is was cake to outrun them.

AI set to 100 in the Clio races. I've found it relatively easy to catch the AI, so long as I am very consistent. Passing them is tricky. They are definitely not averse to contact, but I've not noticed anything too wild. But there are no easy passes.

 

[azidahaka]

I was running a couple of short solo races last night at 80% and starting from the rear in a 20 car event. I found it easy to catch the AI but the AI just did not seem to even notice I was on the track. They would cut me off, brake check me, move over into me as I was going past, knocked me off track a few times and made for a poor race experience. Basically the challenge was trying to get past the AI cars without them hitting me or causing me to hit them. Speed wise is was cake to outrun them.

Beside the weird AI speed behaviour i never had such problems... I just had one or 2 light contacts and the AI was very careful; as much as i was to them.

Actually one time i did behave nasty with a car and the following turn the car somehow gave it back to me lol I think they treat you as you treat them

 

[OooAhh Cantona]

And I also never yet tuned the car, as I don't have good enough knowledge about mechanical parts. Will wait until some nice vids about tunning pop up so I get a better understanding.

One more thing, is it possible to see the circuit layout somewhere, because when I go into a new location, I like to remember how corners go before I start driving, but can't seem to find it. Would really be helpfull.

Nice vids:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-tuning-guide.327780/

Circuit layout: in QRW or Free Run, there is another button option when you're in track selection menu. Something like "view full track list."

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Beside the weird AI speed behaviour i never had such problems... I just had one or 2 light contacts and the AI was very careful; as much as i was to them.

Actually one time i did behave nasty with a car and the following turn the car somehow gave it back to me lol I think they treat you as you treat them

Not the case for me at all. I was actually trying hard to cleanly work my way through the AI. I come into one corner AI is on the out side I am on the inside with my nose in front of the AI car and he comes right over into me like he did not even know I was there and punts me off the track. In two laps I had the AI hit me at least 1/2 dozen times.
And a few more where they swerved in front of me and applied brakes when I was going quite a bit faster than they were and could not avoid hitting them.

 

[azidahaka]

The part of ai cars slowing down happens when there's a battle ahead and they suddenly brake to avoid rear ending someone...

Glad my races with AI were perfectly clean so far lol

 

[Arveena]

The problems began for me GT4 upwards clio cup was fine. Because races are so short you dont notice the ai getting faster and faster as the race progresses. In long race you loose grip and they gain grip. Needless to say that every race where track temprature drops or it begins to rain they know beforehand and choose the right tyres without loosing time.

 

[azidahaka]

I started a second year with clios. I purposedly qualified midfield (12th) and gess what? i Won race 1, my first win since i got the game Pretty easy too.

 

[Bealdor]

Guys we got confirmation from the main AI dev that there is ZERO rubberbanding in the game and their speed is also independant from your qualifying times.

There are only two things that can slow them down:

• AI scaling in local career races (known to everybody I guess)
• AI slower on the first kilometers to simulate cold tires/brains

That's it. Nothing else.

Link for WMD peeps: http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthre...osting-first!)&p=889083&viewfull=1#post889083

 

[azidahaka]

They either "lie", for it's evident to half of people racing that there is this kind of issue, or a bug slipped under their door

In any case i'm sure they'll look at the issue for no one warms up tires (that start in race already at perfect temperature) for 8 laps of a 14 laps race and then magically get all super fast

 

[mister dog]

My experience is with the PC version, so the results may vary.
I also race with the AI and Race Length set to 100.

Does the AI have the same speed in dry and on wet?
No. 2-3 seconds a lap slower at Snetterton, for example.


My question is primarily pertains to the AI Pace going forward. I can win the Clio races with the AI set to 100. Can I assume I will be able to win all remaining Career races by the same margin? Does the quality of the AI get "tougher" over time, depending on the discipline?

Also, let us say in 4 months I want to start over and redo a career, starting again the Clio Cup. If I find I am now 2 seconds faster per lap, will the AI adjust its pace or will I simply just outpace them by 2 seconds more per lap?

I can second this. Just did the M1 race at Zolder where it also starts to rain mid race, noticed the AI was a lot slower than during the dry part. They were still passing me but that was just because i sucked in the rain.

And on that note; i'm glad the track feels slippy with rain, gives me motivation to learn how to handle the wet 👍
Also i tried running a couple of laps on slicks when it started raining, for 2 laps you can handle it but when the track is washed after that, you are a goner.. So the claim that you can just continue on slicks sounds weird to me.

 

[Arveena]

How someone can say there is no rubberband is funny. It is in some races got the same effect again on a GT3 Race in Nürburgring. All three sessions of it was dry. Ai at 95%
Q1 morning hours and dry.

1:56 from me second place(one ai with a bugged 55sec lap the rest 1:58 and 1:59)

Q2 evening and dry.

1:56 from me pole ( AI 1:59 and 2:00)

Race 1 and Race 2 Ai does 1:56 all the time and fastest lap was a 1:55. I manged to win the first but the got my pace. After the pitstop in race two i was second and stayed there because he found 3 sek since quali

I single player this Problem doesnt exist. It is only in career. So How do you explain that. You can try to match the laptimes if you want.
Fact is AI went 3 sekfaster in the race.
3 sek are hard to explain without rubberband when i did not get faster. Also they got exactly as fast as i did my quali laps. What a coincidence

If someone does not believe me and they other fast guys experiencing this its fine. If you gap the field for 3 sek at 90-100% there is a rubberband like a 120% dont know if its the same at lower % and it is that strong. But the game somehow scales on your skill in the Events in career. At the event itself.

That is no Problem in short Races when you did no quali setup. But in longer ones it just sucks because you cant hold that pace. Because of Tyre wear and the AI can and gets faster every lap

 

[Bealdor]

How someone can say there is no rubberband is funny. It is in some races got the same effect again on a GT3 Race in Nürburgring. All three sessions of it was dry. Ai at 95%
Q1 morning hours and dry.

1:56 from me second place(one ai with a bugged 55sec lap the rest 1:58 and 1:59)

Q2 evening and dry.

1:56 from me pole ( AI 1:59 and 2:00)

Race 1 and Race 2 Ai does 1:56 all the time and fastest lap was a 1:55. I manged to win the first but the got my pace. After the pitstop in race two i was second and stayed there because he found 3 sek since quali

I single player this Problem doesnt exist. It is only in career. So How do you explain that. You can try to match the laptimes if you want.
Fact is AI went 3 sekfaster in the race.
3 sek are hard to explain without rubberband when i did not get faster. Also they got exactly as fast as i did my quali laps. What a coincidence

If someone does not believe me and they other fast guys experiencing this its fine. If you gap the field for 3 sek at 90-100% there is a rubberband like a 120% dont know if its the same at lower % and it is that strong. But the game somehow scales on your skill in the Events in career. At the event itself.

That is no Problem in short Races when you did no quali setup. But in longer ones it just sucks because you cant hold that pace. Because of Tyre wear and the AI can and gets faster every lap

I already explained this issue:

There's also a known qualifying fuel problem which is a bit hard to explain (and apparantly hard to fix) but the essence is, that the AI sometimes does the qualifying with a full tank and is therefore slower than in the race.

 

[FuriousDemon]

^
Some of us have been banging our heads against the wall over at WMD over this issue for a long time now, but like Bealdor said, looks like it's hard to fix, cause it has been reported/tested/screenshoted/etc for a very long time now. I'm still under the impression there's some additional downscaling in quali (fuel only accounts for about 1 second slowdown based on my testing) in addition to full fuel tank.

 

[PaullyS]

Regarding setup, take a look at the telemetry of the AI during practice, I started a GT4 championship with the V8 Vantage and was wondering how the AI were braking much later than me and still making it around the corner, I noticed that their rear brakes were nearing 1000fand the front only 8/900f so I did a couple more laps with the telemetry on screen and noticed that my front brakes were only reaching 600f and the rears even less.

Went into tuning and moved the bias rearward to 57% and closed the brake ducts up a bit and it made a hug difference,the brakes hold heat and bite much better than before and the rear bias reduces front locking and helps turn the turn in.

I've also found that reducing the tyre pressures on the front tyres helps a lot with this as well (not brake temp, but being able to brake a bit later). I think I went from 1.6 to 1.5 (I forget what the units are). And depending on the circuit, it helps to either soften or stiffen the suspension - on circuits that have lots of elevation changes and bumps you want softer suspension so that the tyres maintain contact with the road more.

 

[azidahaka]

^
Some of us have been banging our heads against the wall over at WMD over this issue for a long time now, but like Bealdor said, looks like it's hard to fix, cause it has been reported/tested/screenshoted/etc for a very long time now. I'm still under the impression there's some additional downscaling in quali (fuel only accounts for about 1 second slowdown based on my testing) in addition to full fuel tank.

There must be something other in career going on, for purposedly getting a slow qualy time will make the AI go slower in race... Instead getting a super lap in Qualy will unlock a super fast AI...

 

[FuriousDemon]

There must be something other in career going on, for purposedly getting a slow qualy time will make the AI go slower in race... Instead getting a super lap in Qualy will unlock a super fast AI...

No it doesnt work like that. The race AI is consistent. If you do some testing on the same track & conditions in Career and Quick Race, you will find that their race pace (Best Lap) will be about the same. So there is no "super fast AI" in race. They are matching your AI slider setting (with the exception that there's that small AI penalty in career races in the lower tiers). However something's up with qualifying AI scaling, part of it that they run higher fuel load, part of it is something else.

 

[azidahaka]

No it doesnt work like that. The race AI is consistent. If you do some testing on the same track & conditions in Career and Quick Race, you will find that their race pace (Best Lap) will be about the same. So there is no "super fast AI" in race. They are matching your AI slider setting (with the exception that there's that small AI penalty in career races in the lower tiers). However something's up with qualifying AI scaling, part of it that they run higher fuel load, part of it is something else.

You are wrong, sorry but i stand by this, and MANY other are experiencing the same problems with AI not being affected by tire wear, rain, or being super fast out of nowhere.

I'm on ps4 so i can't comment about PC, but they say "one is a maybe, two is a hint, 10 is certain".

edit: in career to clarify

 

[FuriousDemon]

You are wrong, sorry but i stand by this, and MANY other are experiencing the same problems with AI not being affected by tire wear, rain, or being super fast out of nowhere.

I'm on ps4 so i can't comment about PC, but they say "one is a maybe, two is a hint, 10 is certain".

edit: in career to clarify

No being affected by something doesn't mean there's rubberbanding, does it?

In any case, if you want to believe something, that's fine. I'm telling you that we did test this aspect a lot and we did find that AI on slicks is not affected by rain, that's about the only issue with AI speed scaling I can think of, other than career qualifying bug/feature.

 

[azidahaka]

No being affected by something doesn't mean there's rubberbanding, does it?

Well tha AI is faster or slower depending on how you qualify. How you would cal this if not rubberbanding? Speed adjustement? and many are experiencing it in career as i did so something must be up uinless all are getting crazy

 

[Arveena]

No being affected by something doesn't mean there's rubberbanding, does it?

In any case, if you want to believe something, that's fine. I'm telling you that we did test this aspect a lot and we did find that AI on slicks is not affected by rain, that's about the only issue with AI speed scaling I can think of, other than career qualifying bug/feature.

How do you explain one guy at0% lapping the same times as before on 100% and keeping up with me which results in lapping the field in round 4 but one AI guy still on my ass while the others are 20 sek or more of the pace. It does not happen everytime but sometimes. The race where i get it all the time is career laguna seca GT3.
I also read the thread an know ai since build 6xx. I know the fuel bug. I am doing my quali laps with 60% fuel so it should not affect my race times evenbif i go for full fuel or low fuel. It doesnt make up for a 3 sek improvement

I dont think there is a rubberband effekt. I Guess its just a few bugs on top of each other which causes the problems

 

[Bealdor]

Well tha AI is faster or slower depending on how you qualify. How you would cal this if isn't rubberbanding? Speed adjustement? and many are experiencing it in career as i did so something must be up uinless all are getting crazy

OK for the last time: There is no speed adjustment for the AI going on. There are some bugs that could let it appear like it was but there isn't.

Try it for yourself: Run a career race twice, one time with a good qualifying and one time with a bad qualifying. Then repeat this in quick race with the same conditions.
If you get suspicious results try it again. If you still get suspicious results come back and post them here.

 

[Ian_83]

OK for the last time: There is no speed adjustment for the AI going on. There are some bugs that could let it appear like it was but there isn't.

Try it for yourself: Run a career race twice, one time with a good qualifying and one time with a bad qualifying. Then repeat this in quick race with the same conditions.
If you get suspicious results try it again. If you still get suspicious results come back and post them here.

Perhaps you could try it too. (Assuming that you have access to a PS4 version of the game.)

 

[Bealdor]

Perhaps you could try it too. (Assuming that you have access to a PS4 version of the game.)

No I don't have a PS4 but I tested the AI extensively during development and could not observe the things you're posting here. What I learned though was that it's extremely important to do systematic testing before jumping to conclusions.
That means, unless you come up with real proof (and not just gutt feelings) that there's something wrong, I prefer to believe the dev that coded up the AI.

 

[Arveena]

OK for the last time: There is no speed adjustment for the AI going on. There are some bugs that could let it appear like it was but there isn't.

Try it for yourself: Run a career race twice, one time with a good qualifying and one time with a bad qualifying. Then repeat this in quick race with the same conditions.
If you get suspicious results try it again. If you still get suspicious results come back and post them here.

This seems to be right for my testing but all the bugs let it look like it.

• AI beeing slower in Quali due to fuel and whatever sometimes up to 3 sek
• AI always getting faster even if the track gets colder
• AI not beeing affected by tyrewear
• AI always starting on the "right" compund if weather changes not loosing time on the "wrong" compund
• AI bugging out sometimes and just follows your laptimes even at 0% which results in one or two AI following your laptimes and the other lapping super slow (laping the field at lap 4 with 2 AI on your back is actually funny they are laping the other AI pretty aggressive)
• Generally AI doesnt loose that much time compared to you when grip is lower (cold weather rain etc)
• AI always getting faster as track gets better even after 20 laps or more on the same tyre (because of no or not enough simulated Tyrewear)
• AI performance depending on track

Which makes some races impossible to win at 100% and some very easy which is a shame. Because racing against the AI ist really awesome in that game but if you cant find a right setting before the race its sad. Sometimes i gap them on 100% pretty hard. Sometimes especially when weather changes its impossible. In the same categorie in career.
Again the AI was changed last build i played was 989 and i only did single races. The AI is faster in general now and better most of the times then in some early builds and i like it a lot but in career some bugs just add up.
The Quali bug is the worst if you are doing short races and not always drivng at 100% and in the progress of adjusting your settings. The AI always on the right compound bug is just terrible in long races. When you gap them 5 sek in 10 laps with your quali pace and then it starts to rain you need to pit they stay out on rain tyres. But were only 0.5 sek slower than you on soft slicks

 

[Bealdor]

The tire compound and tire wear issues are being looked at atm by the devs.

 

[GranTurismoFive]

My most favoured track on this game is donnington. When I took part in qualifiers for a weekend race. The top 5 AI were hitting low 1 mins 29s. I only play with AI at 100%.

Despite this I was thinking how they were going so fast lol. Fast forward a day or so later and my fastest time around the donnington track is 1:29.2 no one (ai) can touch me in a gt3 car around that track.

I love the fact they can put me under pressure. It make me want to learn each track even more.

I think some of you have become too use to ai moving to one side for you and giving you an easy ride lol

 

[UkHardcore23]

I've found on 80% they just try and drive right through you, 70% they are careful and will try not to hit you!