Air restrictor breaks GT5 multiplayer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ghost Rydor
  • 157 comments
  • 12,040 views
'06
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 182ft-lb @ 4800rpm
Limiter: 97.3%
Weight: 1060kg
PP: 434
1:17.392

'02
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 179ft-lb @ 4800rpm
Limiter: 98.2
Weight: 1065kg
PP: 442
1:17.291

To hit 434:
Weight to 1170kg: 1:17.848
HP to 206: 1:17.915

HP: 209 @ 6800rpm
Torque: 173ft-lb @ 6300rpm
Limiter: 88.9%
Weight: 1065kg (169kg ballast)
PP: 434
1:18.616


MK1 MR2 (Supercharged)
HP: 221 @ 6000rpm
Torque: 223ft-lb @ 4900rpm
Limiter: 99.1%
Weight: 1070kg
PP: 434
1:16.232

NC Miata
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 185ft-lb @ 6200rpm
Limiter: 90.0%
Weight: 1065kg (85kg ballast)
PP: 434
1:16.419

Thumbs up for your testing effort. I tried this too, but Im just to bad as a driver, so I can`t tell whether one car is faster thent he other because I made a decent lap or cause its simply better.

As a fan of the map editor, I created my own test track. It is very fluent and has almost zero chicanes, but alot of slow and some fast corners, so I can test whether the car has good handling or not. Its not a high speed track, the longest straight is very short, race cars only reach 370kmh at the end of the straight.
Few weeks ago, I tested several race cars and a tuned 458 italia there at 600PP. The italia was 5 seconds slower then the fastest car (a ZR1 RM).

Then, few days ago, I had a online race at Suzuka. I tested my 458 first (as a tifosi, I always try to race with ferraris + this car has a awesome engine sound if you use the stock exhaust), setted a lap time then tried race cars. This time, the 458 italia was the fastest car (by 1 tenth). So I used the Ferrari, the race started and it was alot of fun, 5 laps with alot of overtaking and fair battles against jgtc`s or dtm cars.
 
There are so many aspects to this game that it really comes down to the lobby leader to make things fun and fair for all.

If you 100% want it to be a driver's game...same make cars from recommended list only or shuffle race
If you 100% want it to be a tuner's game...same make racing with pp
If you want it to be a game of discovery and skill...open selection with pp

The last item needs restrictions though and unfortunately only the lobby leader can enforce them since PD hasn't given adequate restrictions. Use the title to give people an idea of what you want.

"noRC/RM" -- no race cars or race mods (implies no rally as well)
FF only -- everyone has to pick an Front drive Front engine car
80's only -- car must be between 1980-1989.

Adding these "soft" restrictions makes every night of racing entertaining. Some nights drivers will discover a super fast car and start winning every race. Enforce a rule that the winner has to switch their car.
 
Enforce a rule that the winner has to switch their car.

Well perhaps I'm stupid but last night I joined a room were we agreed to old low hp cars. After a few races I found out that my choice was superior to most of the field, so I switched to another car because it's boring to win without a fight.
 
This is stupid! Ghost Rydor, chill out and have fun will ya? Personally I'm well aware of people who want to win at any cost, but for me, I like to stick to my car and make the best of it regardless of me being overmatched. I remember 1 race this guy picks an X1 while everyone else had Regular tuned cars, Dude finished 2nd to last because he couldn't drive that car in the turns because he lacked skill. I love that!
 
You may want to re-read, because I never said that. I'm certain you know what you're talking about, because we all do; the air restrictor is not a perfect equalizer for different cars. We're all on the same page there. And cars like the R390 Road Car, with large amounts of front downforce, also have an inherent advantage. Gotchya.

I have put some fairly extensive testing into the PP system; now you are the one assuming. It's simply not fact, it's your opinion - using your double-limit setup will get closer competition than using just one limiter, sure, but it still will have some cars that can never be competitive. I have an '02 Alfa 147 2.0 (Standard), and a '06 (Premium). Both tuned to identical power levels, the same weight, and even the same tuning settings.

'06
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 182ft-lb @ 4800rpm
Limiter: 97.3%
Weight: 1060kg
PP: 434
1:17.392

'02
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 179ft-lb @ 4800rpm
Limiter: 98.2
Weight: 1065kg
PP: 442
1:17.291

To hit 434:
Weight to 1170kg: 1:17.848
HP to 206: 1:17.915

Now, these aren't big differences; this is on High Speed Ring, so I expected the HP-limited car to be slowest. But this is a simple track, so a half-second on a track that requires 3 (technically 4) turns to actually put some thought into could become a far bigger margin on a longer track. What is interesting to note though, is I only ran 3 laps in the '06, and it was the first car out there. The '02, I ran more, and familiarity with the car/track combo means if anything, the '06 is probably even faster. Neither car has any ballast too; which is why the '02's 5kg heavier, without a carbon bonnet. I don't want to make any assumptions on how well those 5kg are figured into the '06's lower weight (is it really all off the nose?).

These are cars that for all intents and purposes are the same. A half-second, possibly more, on a simple track, doesn't bode well. A Suzuki Swift, maybe, since it's a small FF car too?

HP: 209 @ 6800rpm
Torque: 173ft-lb @ 6300rpm
Limiter: 88.9%
Weight: 1065kg (169kg ballast)
PP: 434
1:18.616

Now that's weird, since it utilizes more of the limiter, essentially swelling it's torque curve compared to if I had just tuned it to 209HP itself. Also, I got to place all that extra weight where I wanted, for optimal handling (which oddly doesn't change a PP rating either). And yet, still, not even within a second of the others. For two more wildcards:

MK1 MR2 (Supercharged)
HP: 221 @ 6000rpm
Torque: 223ft-lb @ 4900rpm
Limiter: 99.1%
Weight: 1070kg
PP: 434
1:16.232

NC Miata
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 185ft-lb @ 6200rpm
Limiter: 90.0%
Weight: 1065kg (85kg ballast)
PP: 434
1:16.419

A second faster, and both matching the Alfas if you want to do double-regs (well, I can shave that 1HP off the MR2 if you'd like). The argument the restrictor is what gives the advantage doesn't work too well either, since the fastest car was running at the full 100%.



Take an original Mini and an Elise, tune them to to as similar powers and weights as you can. Give them the same gear ratios. Take to SSR7 and cross the line at the same indicated speed, on full throttle. See which one is traveling faster when it comes time to brake. Heck, my cars above all were exiting the final turn at HSR within 2mph of each other, and yet the two rear-drivers were hitting 5mph higher at the braking point for T2.



The refusal to listen to anything that doesn't mirror your own personal opinions is the definition of burying one's head in the sand. And, putting my mod hat on; creative avoidance of the swear filter is generally frowned upon.



Define "same".



I actually hardly put too much thought into which car would be the dominating one; just like Prologue, I pick cars I figure are competitive enough, that I actually enjoy driving. I barely used the Elise and Clio then, and now, I use personal favourites, still. But hey, it is a lot easier to toss the "noob" tag around when people don't agree with you.



One make races are far different than what you're suggesting. Because those actually don't have any differences. Calling this "identical" just isn't true, as it simply can't be when taking multiple cars of varying layouts. Nobody's arguing the dual-regulation method doesn't minimize huge variances between cars... but this assumption that it somehow makes them all equal is still bunk.

You are trying match the regs as closely as possible. Don't. That last example with the MX5 and MR2, why have you added ballast and alike to match weights? This system works based off the differences. If you try to match exactly you will allways end up with nearly as good but not as.

So say the regs are to be based off the MR2 with 221hp and 434pp. Take a car with up to 100hp more and reduce power untill both Hp and pp are below (make sure one matches the other under). Voila, there you have it two nearly identically performing cars save for drivetrain, gearing and suspension tuning. One might be a little quicker in the corners but the other will compensate in straight line speed.
Yes, a 4wd will get a jump off the mark but it will suffer in high speed acceleration. This is what I mean by "as close as a one make". The main factors in success lie in how clean a drive you put in, your gearing and how well you have tuned your suspension.

You need to use a higher rated car so when you detune you have the torque weight combo to compensate for only matching one reg. See?

If you try to enter a similar car you will always come up short. However like I said people always enter a car with an engine twice as big as mine so it works like clockwork.

Don't attempt to match weights and alike just follow the the HP, PP limit. If you can match both it just means your car has a similar weight and you won't have the torque advantage to meet/beat the car regs are set off.

It is a complex 3d or even 4d puzzle but since PP encorperates so many variables we can use just 2 known values (Hp,PP) to achieve the result.

So I guess it is pretty important to make sure you do have a lopsided HP/PP in relation to the limits. It actually means your going to be bang on the performance limit. I suppose unless you understand the concept you will feel like you are being ripped off unless you match both bang on. It is quite the opposite.
Its alot simpler then you are making it. Don't worry about ballast and weight. Use air restricter for hp and downforce if you want to adjust pp. This is the beauty of it you can leave your cars unique in terms of weight. It takes two seconds to meet any dual reg set. Take a car with 100hp more, air restictor detune, done. For any given regs you will have any number of cars you can use. I can list examples of cars that have all raced together with similar results in my hosted lobbies if you like to give you an idea of the cross section of the field that might be competing in the same race together.

I had a a couple of great races, me in my 1982 Audi quattro against a Evo 4 plus others, 300hp and 466PP. The first race he won and I could taste his higher tech pulling for him. The second I won because he was pushing to hard and made a mistake ( max damage!) The differences you can attribute to some cars handling mint out the box while others have the same potential but need to be tuned to realise it. ie two identical cars can have the same pp but if you tune the suspension on one and not the other you will have two cars that handle totally different but as far as PP goes it says they are the same.

Another balancing of cars different handling characteristics that I see all the time is a front wheel drive might be able to enter a corner faster then the rear wheel drive but the rear wheel drive will exit faster. So you have all this different cars driving round each with their own unique characteristics but all average out to perform much the same on tracks with a combination of corners and straights.

After hosting as many races as I have and seeing everyones cars neck at neck the whole way round a track with my own two eyes and being a part of it, yes I have trouble entertaining ideas that it won't or doesn't work because it does.
 
Back