Air restrictor breaks GT5 multiplayer

[Ghost Rydor]

If you don't like the idea of what I'm suggesting you won't like one make races either. The experience is identical except you can use different cars. At the end of the day your tuning and driving skills are what does the talking not sitting back, waiting to see what everyone else enters then using a car you know will beat them.

 

[SmokingCones]

You got to understand that its like a formula, you enter the values you get the same product. Any cars strengths and weakness are adjusted either because they have to enter a car with lower PP or lower hp, and remember the guy who can only have say 150hp in a 200hp race doesn't have the same 150 as me. He has alot more torque spread throughout his rpm. Calculated against his PP our cars will have identical handling and acceleration save for gearing, drivetrain and suspension tunings.

You don't get the identical PP rating for a car that has its naturally full power and the same car modded but limited with restrictor.

NSX Type R at 300 bhp is 498 PP
NSX Type R initially at 350 bhp but limited at 300 bhp is 501 PP

You would want to match those 2 cars in PP, you'd get 12 hp less on the restricted NSX.

So maybe you gain some power and torque band with a limited car, but in return you lose some peak power compared to the unrestricted car.

 

[Ghost Rydor]

You don't get the identical PP rating for a car that has its naturally full power and the same car modded but limited with restrictor.

NSX Type R at 300 bhp is 498 PP
NSX Type R initially at 350 bhp but limited at 300 bhp is 501 PP

You would want to match those 2 cars in PP, you'd get 12 hp less on the restricted NSX.

So maybe you gain some power and torque band with a limited car, but in return you lose some peak power compared to the unrestricted car.

Yes I am aware of that. That might work out when you are using the same car but thats about the only time pp works properly on its own.
Remember PP is determined by a number of things Weight, downforce and a bunch of other variables that no one really understands yet.
When you dual reg, its like an equation you can put any number into and get the same predetermined answer out.

 

[Corpsey]

I think you should re read my earlier comment... its like everyone just ignored it or something but it's about MONEY you know.. that thing that determines how many engineers you can pay to ensure your cars victory, that thing that pays the workers that mine the materials for the cars, the thing that builds empires. And restrict it. I mean you're talking about racing city cars and someone brings in a roadster semi-racing car.. Do something about it and/or don't complain. Though, they really should have implemented car classification.. the chart is pretty ridiculous though; wiki link

also I tried the limited R390 that thing is just crazy insane unstoppable so I see where you're getting at and that's why I'm replying again, because in case you didn't read the earlier post or this post.. a money restriction could potentially solve your problem.

 

[Ghost Rydor]

I think you should re read my earlier comment... its like everyone just ignored it or something but it's about MONEY you know.. that thing that determines how many engineers you can pay to ensure your cars victory, that thing that pays the workers that mine the materials for the cars, the thing that builds empires. And restrict it. I mean you're talking about racing city cars and someone brings in a roadster semi-racing car.. Do something about it and/or don't complain. Though, they really should have implemented car classification.. the chart is pretty ridiculous though; wiki link

also I tried the limited R390 that thing is just crazy insane unstoppable so I see where you're getting at and that's why I'm replying again, because in case you didn't read the earlier post or this post.. a money restriction could potentially solve your problem.

That idea is not bad but wouldn't work on so many levels. Plus if I already have an equation that matches cars perfectly every time any other system can only be less effective.
What about second hand car value vs new? It really is an unworkable idea and thats assuming the dollar value is representive of its performance which is of course it isn't.

 

[Corpsey]

I meant just for unreasonable pricing.. (over 500,000) though you are correct some cars are inexpensive and powerful performance wise.. though the limited R390 I tried brought the PP down to 454 or so and 187HP, and there are plenty of cars with more horsepower in that range, so would it not be able to be out-raced? Also, what are the full list of server rules? Do you not cap PP or HP? what's stopping someone from walking in with an XJ220?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think it s great all you guys have your opinions without actually trying out what I have suggested first. It isn't an "idea" I have been doing it for weeks, it isn't so much a theory as it is a fact.
I'm sure that since we are all used to broken wonky games that something like this sounds to good to be true so everyone just dismisses it as some kind of scam or thinks I don't know what I'm talking about.

You may want to re-read, because I never said that. I'm certain you know what you're talking about, because we all do; the air restrictor is not a perfect equalizer for different cars. We're all on the same page there. And cars like the R390 Road Car, with large amounts of front downforce, also have an inherent advantage. Gotchya.

I have put some fairly extensive testing into the PP system; now you are the one assuming. It's simply not fact, it's your opinion - using your double-limit setup will get closer competition than using just one limiter, sure, but it still will have some cars that can never be competitive. I have an '02 Alfa 147 2.0 (Standard), and a '06 (Premium). Both tuned to identical power levels, the same weight, and even the same tuning settings.

'06
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 182ft-lb @ 4800rpm
Limiter: 97.3%
Weight: 1060kg
PP: 434
1:17.392

'02
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 179ft-lb @ 4800rpm
Limiter: 98.2
Weight: 1065kg
PP: 442
1:17.291

To hit 434:
Weight to 1170kg: 1:17.848
HP to 206: 1:17.915

Now, these aren't big differences; this is on High Speed Ring, so I expected the HP-limited car to be slowest. But this is a simple track, so a half-second on a track that requires 3 (technically 4) turns to actually put some thought into could become a far bigger margin on a longer track. What is interesting to note though, is I only ran 3 laps in the '06, and it was the first car out there. The '02, I ran more, and familiarity with the car/track combo means if anything, the '06 is probably even faster. Neither car has any ballast too; which is why the '02's 5kg heavier, without a carbon bonnet. I don't want to make any assumptions on how well those 5kg are figured into the '06's lower weight (is it really all off the nose?).

These are cars that for all intents and purposes are the same. A half-second, possibly more, on a simple track, doesn't bode well. A Suzuki Swift, maybe, since it's a small FF car too?

HP: 209 @ 6800rpm
Torque: 173ft-lb @ 6300rpm
Limiter: 88.9%
Weight: 1065kg (169kg ballast)
PP: 434
1:18.616

Now that's weird, since it utilizes more of the limiter, essentially swelling it's torque curve compared to if I had just tuned it to 209HP itself. Also, I got to place all that extra weight where I wanted, for optimal handling (which oddly doesn't change a PP rating either). And yet, still, not even within a second of the others. For two more wildcards:

MK1 MR2 (Supercharged)
HP: 221 @ 6000rpm
Torque: 223ft-lb @ 4900rpm
Limiter: 99.1%
Weight: 1070kg
PP: 434
1:16.232

NC Miata
HP: 220 @ 7100rpm
Torque: 185ft-lb @ 6200rpm
Limiter: 90.0%
Weight: 1065kg (85kg ballast)
PP: 434
1:16.419

A second faster, and both matching the Alfas if you want to do double-regs (well, I can shave that 1HP off the MR2 if you'd like). The argument the restrictor is what gives the advantage doesn't work too well either, since the fastest car was running at the full 100%.

Your argument on whether all cars can truly be evened out hinges on whether or not drag coeffiecents are calculated in the game. Which I don't believe they are. And even if they were they would most likely have that incorporated into their PP, which gets adjusted for using my dual regs anyway.

Take an original Mini and an Elise, tune them to to as similar powers and weights as you can. Give them the same gear ratios. Take to SSR7 and cross the line at the same indicated speed, on full throttle. See which one is traveling faster when it comes time to brake. Heck, my cars above all were exiting the final turn at HSR within 2mph of each other, and yet the two rear-drivers were hitting 5mph higher at the braking point for T2.

Yes pretending is silly, thats why I don't. Just because most people are full of $hit does not mean everyone is.
Let me know when you guys have pulled your heads out of the ground.

The refusal to listen to anything that doesn't mirror your own personal opinions is the definition of burying one's head in the sand. And, putting my mod hat on; creative avoidance of the swear filter is generally frowned upon.

You got to understand that its like a formula, you enter the values you get the same product.

Define "same".

Its a pretty good reflection of the gaming community that most the posts in this thread are from people starting to feel butt hurt at the idea that they might not be able to enter someones lobby and deliberately enter a superior car that allows them to win unchallenged.
I've seen that before as well. Noobs play a game as long as there is an exploit they can beat people with. If its ever patched they move on to the next game with holes in it.

I actually hardly put too much thought into which car would be the dominating one; just like Prologue, I pick cars I figure are competitive enough, that I actually enjoy driving. I barely used the Elise and Clio then, and now, I use personal favourites, still. But hey, it is a lot easier to toss the "noob" tag around when people don't agree with you.

If you don't like the idea of what I'm suggesting you won't like one make races either. The experience is identical except you can use different cars.

One make races are far different than what you're suggesting. Because those actually don't have any differences. Calling this "identical" just isn't true, as it simply can't be when taking multiple cars of varying layouts. Nobody's arguing the dual-regulation method doesn't minimize huge variances between cars... but this assumption that it somehow makes them all equal is still bunk.

 

[arora]

Remember PP is determined by a number of things Weight, downforce and a bunch of other variables that no one really understands yet.

I doubt anyone will ever understand how PD has made the pp system. Take the toyota 7 for example I was also messing with ballast and found some pretty odd results to the pp as well.

All in all I'll say it's not a bad ball park figure but in no way a system that will ever do what you want it to.(and yes I know you are going to go on and on about how you've added your hp reg into it)

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

Check this from 4 min and on...

"...the leader is actually using a 106 turbo..."

It´s a 205 of course, but we all might know that, I guess

Nevertheless, THAT's what the pp system should be about. Racing some GT cars with a 205
On the other hand, in decent hands a GT car shouldn't be held back from a production car, let it be as good as it gets...

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

Some cars in the game just won't be competitive at a certain PP or P/W ratio, ever. Look at Prologue - the Elise and Clio cleaned up at pretty much any level, the RX-8 and NSX-R being the other main choices. Cars tuned to the same PP as these cars never were as competitive. It happens.

Someone earlier in this thread touched on what I did earlier; while GT might not model very intricate aerodynamics, it does seem to have some basic values for each car. Tuning a brick to the same power and weight as something more slippery in the air shows that the latter car will hit higher top speeds on a given straight. That was all I meant with that.

The PP system seems to take into account the age of a car as well (the more primitive tech could count as a handicap), but it still favours new cars. I have an Alfa Giulia GTA that has a higher PP rating than one of my moderately-tuned Elises, and yet it can never match the times of the newer car. Some cars just have a better base to work with, and while this dual-regulation plan might minimize that, to pretend it makes every possible car competitive is a silly idea.

You're simply nailing it down, mate.

The age of a car might be the most obvious issue with the pp system. A similar pp-ed car simply doesn't come on a level of an actual car, with the same points. One might throw in a production period regulation too, but that wouldn't make things easier to work with I guess..

 

[Corpsey]

You're simply nailing it down, mate.

The age of a car might be the most obvious issue with the pp system. A similar pp-ed car simply doesn't come on a level of an actual car, with the same points. One might throw in a production period regulation too, but that wouldn't make things easier to work with I guess..

nah that's a novel idea though really.. I mean why not?
So this thread is partially correct.. air restrictor doesn't really balance 2 different engines (but in real life, wouldn't it be like that?), so the alternative I suppose would be same make or same engine? The sad truth is that someone has to win, just pray it's not the guy that likes to have a little fit on his mic. >.>

I wonder though.. what cars actually have the same engine? it would be productive to figure that out and then start races by year & engine type instead of PP, if the PP system is that flawed and you really want it more balanced.. nice work benchmarking some cars SlipZtrEm.

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

nah that's a novel idea though really.. I mean why not?
So this thread is partially correct.. air restrictor doesn't really balance 2 different engines (but in real life, wouldn't it be like that?), so the alternative I suppose would be same make or same engine? The sad truth is that someone has to win, just pray it's not the guy that likes to have a little fit on his mic. >.>

I wonder though.. what cars actually have the same engine? it would be productive to figure that out and then start races by year & engine type instead of PP, if the PP system is that flawed and you really want it more balanced.. nice work benchmarking some cars SlipZtrEm.

Didn' expect my idea to be logical

But when you think it a step further, it may be a good alternative or addition. I'd say if there's a regulation which takes for example production decades into account, like 60's, 70's, 80's timelines I don't know, then that may bring additional balancing into play. On the other hand, this could be just another regulation if you set up a room, so...

 

[Corpsey]

Well year and engine would be optimal because I would like to see what 1990's V6 people would put up against eachother, especially if race cars are out of the equation..

 

[SavageEvil]

I was pretty sure that tech used in cars factor into PP. PP is just a general guideline and some cars will just be more efficient than others. Look at Japan's Super GT, take note of the weight handicaps invoked on all MR cars, why is that? Those cars are deemed to have an advantage so they are given handicaps in order to keep the field level. I believe that all the Super GT 500 cars have the same power output, but FR are not penalized in anyway. Just because we don't know all the factors that govern PP ratings doesn't mean that they system is broken, just means we need to understand how it works first before imposing our one sided judgement.

@SlipZtrEm The position of the ballast does indeed increase and decrease PP points, I have actually seen this as I tuned my cars. Easiest to see on cars like the M3 CSL, Mazda RX-7 and MR cars like the F1. I was amazed to see that actually changing the PP points, makes me want the inclusion of tires into the equation once again(not sure why it was removed).

Note the PP system also has hidden values that we cannot judge unless you list cars by PP, just because two cars are listed at 600PP doesn't exactly mean they are equal. Like FM3 system the decimal points are not shown so a car is really listed as 600.1PP versus another car at 600.9PP, might not seem that big to you, but that is a rather large variation and will mean the difference in winning and losing.

Not sure but I was sure that I read somewhere in this thread confusion with race cars and road cars modded to same PP and other things. Again going back to my point that we don't know all the details that PD uses to derive PP system but it does seem to work very well while not perfect(no system is), I must admit it makes racing very interesting online.

I've wanted to petition PD for more restrictions, like drivetrain, Race cars, production cars, Race Modded production cars, concept cars. A purpose built race car is not the same thing as a race modded production car, the building process sets them apart and that ultimately gives one the innate edge in overall performance. I doubt that there are daily drivers that can be modified like within the game to match a pure race version of the same car.

 

[chuyler1]

As a lobby host for a nightly 450pp room I'd like to chime in. Although it sounds like all the basics have been layed out. First off, power/weight restrictions are for newbs. It is clear that you will never get a clean battle unless you run same-make races or use performance points.

There are two issues that plague the PP system:

1) Tires: Plain and simple, newer sports cars have wider tires and given the same rubber compound as a similar weight econo-box will corner faster. I call it skinny-tire-syndrome.

2) Acceleration: No matter what mods you try to install on an econo-box, it simply won't pull as hard. Perhaps there is wheel slip, or perhaps its luck of the tune, but when you are drafting someone who has the same PP as you and they pull away from you (instead of you running up to their bumper), the system is clearly broken. You can speculate about whether its aerodynamics, drivetrain loss, or engine tech...but it doesn't really matter, some cars just pull harder.

The Solutions:

1) Pick another car. If you see S2000s and Elises dominating a track, get yourself one too. No one cares that your Volvo Estate wagon looks cool but if it runs lap times 2 seconds slower, stop bitching and pick something that was designed for racing.

2) Change the room restrictions and enforce them. I run 450pp '80s night on Sunday nights. The competition is much closer when people are forced to put away their NSXs and S2000s and drive something that increases the challenge.

 

[Bushby_23]

*SNIP*

2) Acceleration: No matter what mods you try to install on an econo-box, it simply won't pull as hard. Perhaps there is wheel slip, or perhaps its luck of the tune, but when you are drafting someone who has the same PP as you and they pull away from you (instead of you running up to their bumper), the system is clearly broken. You can speculate about whether its aerodynamics, drivetrain loss, or engine tech...but it doesn't really matter, some cars just pull harder.

*SNIP

Two words: Gear Ratios

 

[grenadeshark]

As a lobby host for a nightly 450pp room I'd like to chime in. Although it sounds like all the basics have been layed out. First off, power/weight restrictions are for newbs. It is clear that you will never get a clean battle unless you run same-make races or use performance points.

There are two issues that plague the PP system:

1) Tires: Plain and simple, newer sports cars have wider tires and given the same rubber compound as a similar weight econo-box will corner faster. I call it skinny-tire-syndrome.

2) Acceleration: No matter what mods you try to install on an econo-box, it simply won't pull as hard. Perhaps there is wheel slip, or perhaps its luck of the tune, but when you are drafting someone who has the same PP as you and they pull away from you (instead of you running up to their bumper), the system is clearly broken. You can speculate about whether its aerodynamics, drivetrain loss, or engine tech...but it doesn't really matter, some cars just pull harder.

The Solutions:

1) Pick another car. If you see S2000s and Elises dominating a track, get yourself one too. No one cares that your Volvo Estate wagon looks cool but if it runs lap times 2 seconds slower, stop bitching and pick something that was designed for racing.

2) Change the room restrictions and enforce them. I run 450pp '80s night on Sunday nights. The competition is much closer when people are forced to put away their NSXs and S2000s and drive something that increases the challenge.

While I do agree with chuyler on most of his points. Being a fan of exceptional terrible cars. IE. Volvo Estate Wagon, I have to add in some insight.

1) Tires: Plain and simple, newer sports cars have wider tires and given the same rubber compound as a similar weight econo-box will corner faster. I call it skinny-tire-syndrome.

1. Tires. He's right. There is nothing that will make your tires wider on your 73 bmw turbo. Deal with it.

2) Acceleration: No matter what mods you try to install on an econo-box, it simply won't pull as hard. Perhaps there is wheel slip, or perhaps its luck of the tune, but when you are drafting someone who has the same PP as you and they pull away from you (instead of you running up to their bumper), the system is clearly broken. You can speculate about whether its aerodynamics, drivetrain loss, or engine tech...but it doesn't really matter, some cars just pull harder.

What most people fail to account for is HP/TQ curves. I can show you 100 times out of a hundred where a heavier car with more traction problems and less HP/TQ out accelerating a car with all the opposite features.

It's all in the curves. If you build a car that has 250 hp, but that HP is only available for 500 rpms out of the power band and the rest of the time you have extreme drops, it will be slow.

Having built and tuned the transmissions of literally 2 dozen newer cars and older cars to the same PP, the following conclusions can be made.

Acceleration is a combination of traction, weight, gearing and power (among other things, like physics, wind resistance, etc).

1. Traction
Either you pick the right tires, or you setup the suspension/weight distribution to put maximum weight on the drive wheels.

2. Weight
Lighter cars inherently accelerate faster given an equal hp/tq curve and similar gearing. The only time this isn't true is when the car is too light and too powerful and not enough weight is being transferred to the rear wheels to allow it to gain traction (Lotus elan anyone?).

3. Gearing
You gotta maximize the HP/TQ curve for each car. That is one of the leading factors in increasing acceleration. It's not just gearing your car down for acceleration. It is making sure your first gear gets traction. Making sure your following gears land right at or near the peak power of the car. There is an exception to this rule if your peak power doesn't last very long and has a steep drop off. Then you want to make sure to optimize as best you can. This takes testing and using the graphs in game.

4.Power
Are you dealing with slow turns or lots of top end? Setting your car up for more HP or TQ will help in these situations. I can't explain in enough detail how important the power curves of a car are. Peak HP/TQ numbers are irrelevant.

Below is a really crappy graph. Lets presume all cars have the same redline and peak HP number. Its stupidly obvious which graph is the right one, but it makes my point.

The ranking order of these pictures is. BL, TL, TR, BR.

There are many reasons for one being better then the others, but I will try to explain in a bit of detail.

Bottom Left is the easiest graph to build a transmission around. The curve is smooth and peaks right around redline. Up until that point, the onset of power is smooth.

Top Left is a little more like what you would see out of most production cars. The power increase is more sudden and available for less time. Also, as you get close to the redline, power drops off immensely. Remember though, this does not always mean you want to shift up as soon as you start dropping in power. The effects of transmission gearing and differential gearing are pertinent. The multipliers that occur in lower gears make shifting at the redline good for most cars even if it looks counterproductive at first glance. This link explains what I just said in much more detail.http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Bottom Right is a terrible curve. Sure it peaks higher then the rest of the graphs, but the power is available only for an instant then drops off more then any other graph.

Top right is a graph for a car that really shouldn't have a redline as far as it does. Again, transmission gearing will account for a lot of the losses, but generally speaking, you don't want a curve that looks like this. This is an engine that is not well balanced and there is probably some other underlying issues.

Edit. One thing I left out was the tq curve on those graphs. If you know the HP and RPM, you can figure out the TQ.

 

[chuyler1]

i run custom trannys in all my online cars so the times where I see someone pull away from me, it's not because of the tranny. In fact, my RUF BTR pulls hard in every gear and I leave the tranny at 174mph for all tracks. My '86 MR2 doesn't pull worth **** even when the tranny is set too low for the draft.

Grenade's analysis of the power curves is accurate, but torque also plays a role...and more importantly, the relationship between the torque and the hp and whether they peak at the same rpm range. If a car has high torque at low rpms but doesn't have much at high rpms, it doesn't help you when running the car to redline. You're better off shifting early. If a car peaks in both torque and rpm in the high rpm range, but low enough that you can stay in the power band through the entire gear, it will be quicker.

Here's 3 examples I drew up for another thread. An '86 MR2 stage-3 turbo, an '86 MR2 Supercharger, and a MR-S (MR2 Spyder). I have highlighted the power bands. The MR-S is about 2-3 seconds quicker at Trial Mountain. The two '86s are about the same but I have to tune the trannys differently because of their different power bands. I run the turbo to redline while I shift way early in the SC.

I have tried endlessly to make the '86 mr2s as fast as the MR-S but I have been unsucessful. They just don't have ideal power curves and messing with weight reduction, ballast, or power reduction (restrictor plate) just doesn't give them any edge.

 

[grenadeshark]

i run custom trannys in all my online cars so the times where I see someone pull away from me, it's not because of the tranny. In fact, my RUF BTR pulls hard in every gear and I leave the tranny at 174mph for all tracks. My '86 MR2 doesn't pull worth **** even when the tranny is set too low for the draft.

Grenade's analysis of the power curves is accurate, but torque also plays a role...and more importantly, the relationship between the torque and the hp and whether they peak at the same rpm range. If a car has high torque at low rpms but doesn't have much at high rpms, it doesn't help you when running the car to redline. You're better off shifting early. If a car peaks in both torque and rpm in the high rpm range, but low enough that you can stay in the power band through the entire gear, it will be quicker.

Here's 3 examples I drew up for another thread. An '86 MR2 stage-3 turbo, an '86 MR2 Supercharger, and a MR-S (MR2 Spyder). I have highlighted the power bands. The MR-S is about 2-3 seconds quicker at Trial Mountain. The two '86s are about the same but I have to tune the trannys differently because of their different power bands. I run the turbo to redline while I shift way early in the SC.



I have tried endlessly to make the '86 mr2s as fast as the MR-S but I have been unsucessful. They just don't have ideal power curves and messing with weight reduction, ballast, or power reduction (restrictor plate) just doesn't give them any edge.

Well you said it. They don't have ideal power curves. That's why some cars are better than others at the same PP levels. Even if they handle the same, a car with a better HP/TQ curve will win in a straight line given all the same circumstances.

Tq in my example is irrelevant since it can be derived from the HP curves I gave. Tq is just a function of HP and RPM. Looking at the HP curve will give you an idea of the TQ curve.

 

[grenadeshark]

oops. Double Post.

 

[kjeezy23]

Luckily the Toyota GT-ONE "ROAD CAR" never made it to GT5. You would see problems like this everyday.

 

[mickey]

Look I admire your want for a level playing field and who doesn't want some good tight racing but I think you're going about it all wrong.

Fact is GT5 is more about road cars than race cars and almost every car is therefore made for different purposes even if it's a 911 and a GTR.

If you want an even playing field then do one make races...you want variety then change the make after every race. By placing artificial regulations it just nerfs it.

Think about it, in racing there are usually very strict regulations such as in F1. But even though every team is supposedly following each regulation to the limit you have a huge difference between, say, Red Bull and Lotus. Even one make races will see leaders of the pack because of superior car setup.

Now you're trying to impose such strict limits on road cars built for different purposes and even eras. A ferrari f10 and f2007 will give different times a couple of years apart.

I say let it happen and have fun or do one make races and save the hassle of artificial limits and explaining them to everyone that comes to your room. Otherwise it's not really a 'sim' then anyway.

 

[Rated-M3]

I read the first couple of pages and yeah... So how do you know this is an "air restrictor"? It clearly states "Power limiter" (ECU).

Anyways, I hate joining a 400PP room and find people are using race cars, even if the host specifies production, concept or whatever. Just isn't fair nor fun. I have all the same cars but I look for racing, not a walloping. Downgrading a fully modded car isn't cool as well. I hope they come up with a fix for this.

 

[porsche 9146]

GT5 has pretty terrible parity. quite frankly, I'm kind of happy we don't have leaderboards, it makes the so-called "leaderboard cars" less obvious.

 

[Rated-M3]

GT5 has pretty terrible parity. quite frankly, I'm kind of happy we don't have leaderboards, it makes the so-called "leaderboard cars" less obvious.

I went to go try the last time trial and R390(correct model?) road cars were abundant...👎 Made an attempt in the 2002tii which kindly fit the specs, didn't stand a chance on the straight....

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

@chuyler+grenade:
thanks for the enlightment, guys. Was interesting and superbly understandable written stuff. Maybe someday we'll sort the rest of these things out ontrack

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

Luckily the Toyota GT-ONE "ROAD CAR" never made it to GT5. You would see problems like this everyday.

There was a "road car" of the GT-ONE? Wow...

 

[ghostrider135]

Is this thread still going wow im shocked , I still need my Nissan R390 'ROADCAR' so I can clean up online haha

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

Is this thread still going wow im shocked , I still need my Nissan R390 'ROADCAR' so I can clean up online haha

I set one online to give you the opportunity to try it out until it appears in your UCD. Last step is only your responding to my FR 👍

 

[ghostrider135]

I set one online to give you the opportunity to try it out until it appears in your UCD. Last step is only your responding to my FR 👍

Oooh , I havent been online for a few days been abit too busy so i might be able to get on for abit this afternoon maybe if I don't get called out to work again