Almost had it with GTS.

[Lebowski]

The level of bad driving and poor sportsmanship in this game is like nothing I have ever experienced before and I just can't understand why that is. Before Xmas I was rated A/S. Now Im C/C and largely through no faults of my own. For example, earlier on this morning in the 911 RSR challenge, sorry I mean the Group 3 Daily race I qualified a distinctly average 11th in my Aston. My fears of that grid slot were confirmed as by the 2nd corner on lap 1, several 911 shaped battering rams ensured I was head on into a tyre wall because I braked correctly to avoid contact with the other 10 911s in front of me. A deluge of orange arrows swiftly followed. I managed to climb back from 19th to 8th by the 6th lap, pitted in and by turn 5 after pitting I had been wiped out again. I was now back in 11th, exactly where I started and not only got yet another orange arrow but a penalty to rub it in for being rammed off. Come the hairpin on the same lap, i was rammed off yet again. That was it for me, I rage quit! And of course you then get an SR demotion for that too! Just how the hell does this silly SR system work? Been hit from behind? Orange arrow for you pal. Been rammed off track causing you several lost positions and many seconds lost? Have another orange arrow and a further time penalty for your trouble mush. Was this games rating system designed by a bunch of alcoholic chimpanzees with PMT? It surely can't have been designed by a rational thinking human. I give up totally on Sport mode now, there's no incentive to even try so what's the point of it anyway? Custom races is where It's at.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

You'll be back. Just think of it as punishment for treating the AI that way for all those years! GT has trained people from the beginning to use the AI to get around corners. It's a long road to undo that and GTS still encourages bad driving in its 'campaign'. Heck, the AI does the same. You can't expect people to change their driving style by 2 simple videos and a broken penalty system.

It makes those clean courteous battles all the more special once they do happen

 

[SirMontgomery]

Yep the 911 cup is hard work. Makes it all the more satisfying when you no pit- stop your way in front of them.

 

[Sander 001]

I’m ready to take a break from Sports mode for a while. Let me know when they fix the penalty system or come up with something effective against deliberate rammers and dive bombers.

 

[RFSnake]

It's a long road to undo that and GTS still encourages bad driving in its 'campaign'.

Yet the old games still had enough features that could be used to discourage it:
Licences used to disallow any collision, 1 bump and you failed. The current licences allow you to bump into anything. Missions are often the same on that, and on endurances its somewhat logical to not instantly disqualify. But why not force a penalty in those cases?

Most collisions arent too difficult to detect because its a very simple check of speed or driver input:
- Someone drives too fast that makes him unable to take the corner even if he slammed the brakes: he takes the full penalty. There is a brake indicator which although isnt realy strict and sometimes quite off, it could be used to set a safe zone. Exceeding the limits of that area could be used to detect wether someone was acting like a missile.
- Deliberately forcing people off the track can often be detected because its usualy the one on the inner part of the turn. The outer one is much less likely to ever force someone off the track (even if he tried), at the same time, to avoid getting the penalty this would allow you to just force to drive in a straight line. This can be detected because of the steering and breaking actions
- Pit manouvers on a straight section are also very obvious since its never logical to take a full turn on a straight section and persist taking that turn. Best here would be to enforce the performer into becoming a ghost and crash into the wall without an automatic reset.

And for penalty improvements/collision avoidance they should do the following:
- Ignoring a blue flag and forcing someone off the track should instantly end your race on S SR. On A SR it should enforce a notable penalty and on any other rank it should just disable collisions.
- Clear missile behaviour should in any SR always cause the player to become a ghost. At the same time always apply the SR penalty even if there was no collision because of that.
- Avoid resetting players that clearly deliberatly caused collisions, for players that got forced off the track by the other one, putting them back on the track at an instant in a somewhat ideal speed (the average speed the player has during that specific corner)
- Better atempt at detecting the cause of the problem. In most cases the one ahead should get the advantage regarding SR.
- Last lap penalties should be a lot more harsh, if you bump someone off the track to gain 1 position and he lost 6 of it, you should still be considered to lose 7 positions and end up behind him. Just to discourage that behaviour because its considered absolutely useless. Even if they would finish first, they would get a penalty worth like 30 seconds just to be placed behind #6. The one who got forced off at the same time also gets the advantage that when he was in the top half, that he would not lose any DR.

 

[Lebowski]

Could also add that any deliberate contact such as ramming, pit menouvers and sheer reckless driving that causes another player to lose time or position or both is handled by fines that is passed on to the victim. For example, a simple tap from behind that has no effect could be a base level 1000 credits. That in itself is enough to make people think. A large ram that forces someone off but not crash could be 50,000 and a deliberate act that results in a crash, loss of position and time as high as a million and if you don't have the credits it keeps coming out of your winnings until paid. Such a system would change the game within a week!

 

[RFSnake]

or example, a simple tap from behind that has no effect could be a base level 1000 credits.

As long as people find ways to easily farm credits this has no effect. There are currently tricks that allow people to get 3m in a night (using glitches that is). They could easily store that cash by just purchasing an expensive car, and when they want to buy a new one sell the duplicates. By that still having a big reserve, while the cash count only looks like its at $0. Sure, it slows them down, but it doesnt stop them.

Taking away miles on that would be a bit more efficient since you cant sell anything to reobtain them. But even then i dont realy think its going to work, since a player can still quite quickly earn some miles in a vs AI mode and then use those to buy the special cars/colors/etc.

If it can be detected properly, the only proper way to handle it is to simply drop their SR low enough that collisions get disabled anyway.

 

[Oswald07]

Granted, but we also race with far more frequency. All I am saying is quitting is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

That said, I am starting to drift over into the damage camp as a means to smarten people up, and by damage, I mean catastrophic race ending damage rather than the minor inconvenience the game has now. Too many people have the "win it or bin it" attitude, so give them the possibility of option 2, which does not currently exist. If there is front end engine damage, limp mode should be the best the car can muster. Force people to quit the race or limp to the pits. It's going to suck for the first few weeks as people take you out, but it will eventually clean up.

In addition, There really needs to be a change to SR and DR. SR rating is currently WAY WAY WAY too lenient. Half, if not more of the people with an SR -S should likely be SR C or D...or E. There has to be some catastrophic change that eliminates bad drivers from participation.

Here's my suggestion, If you get a penalty of any kind, you should lose 2 SR for every second of penalty. A 5 second penalty will drop you to 1 SR tier and a 10 second penalty will drop you 2. Then require a high rating to participate in one of the dailies. Make Race 3 a minimum of B DR and S SR. Same with the FIA races. No one with anything less than SR -S can compete. Harsh? Yes, but BOY will people be more careful if they want to participate.

Keep in mind, you gain SR for every clean sector you do, so you gain back SR and an enormous rate. People are gaining too quickly and losing it too slowly (or just losing it too slowly).

Or, make it so that the cars require ratings. so, GR4 requires at least an A, GR3 and higher requires an S. (or both S, I don't care). It would be EXACTLY what the badges are supposed to achieve, or the old racing licenses.

Because, right now, the SR system is completely and utterly useless. I have played in rooms from S drivers to c drivers and the racing is the same. The only time I have seen actual good clean racing is when I am in rooms with DR-S drivers, and a field of DR-A and high DR-B. Anything below that grouping is a crash fest, and it should not be that way

The most troubling trend I am seeing is the increase in driving people off the track. I had it happen several times over the past few days leaving me with no real choice other than to hold position and turn into the other player (the alternative being a wreck anyway).

But, all that said, I still think quitting altogether is extreme.

What is to stop people from brake checking you to limp back yo the pits SR B?

 

[Voodoovaj]

What is to stop people from brake checking you to limp back yo the pits SR B?

What's there to stop someone from ramming every one and dropping themselvestto E/E?

 

[inri]

I’m ready to take a break from Sports mode for a while. Let me know when they fix the penalty system or come up with something effective against deliberate rammers and dive bombers.

It makes no difference to anyone except you whether you quit or not. so no

 

[Lebowski]

What's there to stop someone from ramming every one and dropping themselvestto E/E?

The game itself. You can't drop DR any lower than D. I reached 1 point and it was still D. When you first start the game you have to reach 2000 points before you get to D, after that you will never see DR E again.

 

[JacksHerer]

I’m ready to take a break from Sports mode for a while. Let me know when they fix the penalty system or come up with something effective against deliberate rammers and dive bombers.

Your radar is the 'something effective against deliberate rammers and dive bombers'
I doubt PD will be able to do too much without taking away from the racing. But I'm sure suggestions on how to fix the penalty system would be a good thread.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Virtual safety car could be an answer to a lot of problems

A sprint race with a chicane at the start would only turn into a parade with safety car for 3 laps though!

How about if you punt someone off the track, you swap cars instantly

 

[Robben]

A sprint race with a chicane at the start would only turn into a parade with safety car for 3 laps though!

How about if you punt someone off the track, you swap cars instantly

Yeah, you automatically change to the Sambabus or the Kubelwagen

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Yeah, you automatically change to the Sambabus or the Kubelwagen

I was thinking more swap places with the car you punted off, yet that works too! Let them finish the race in this

It's got a good bumper.

 

[Robben]

I was thinking more swap places with the car you punted off

It's got a good bumper.

Oh... swap places. You said 'swap car'!

But your solution with the pig bus works too

 

[Sander 001]

It makes no difference to anyone except you whether you quit or not. so no

It definitely does make a difference otherwise PD wouldn't be making updates like they just did to fix problems

 

[polizei]

I've said this a million times, if you want good clean racing find a league. You will race against the same people again and again and those who aren't clean will be kicked. Sport mode is nothing more than a public room that "counts" toward a meaningless "rating". The ratings truly don't matter as clearly evident from all these identical threads. If you want good competition from like-minded racers you can find it here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/gts-online-racing-leagues.427/

 

[Voodoovaj]

The game itself. You can't drop DR any lower than D. I reached 1 point and it was still D. When you first start the game you have to reach 2000 points before you get to D, after that you will never see DR E again.

Interesting. Hmmm. I wonder why they chose that approach.

In any event, I believe that my point was still clear. If someone WANTS to be a dick or truly tank their ratings at your expense, there is no way to prevent that.

Right now, the benefit of have a high DR is more points in the FIA races, but does really seem to be a good motivator. I still think there needs to be more Sport Mode content and a tighter clamp on who gets to play. That way, it's either play nice or don't play.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Interesting. Hmmm. I wonder why they chose that approach.

In any event, I believe that my point was still clear. If someone WANTS to be a dick or truly tank their ratings at your expense, there is no way to prevent that.

Right now, the benefit of have a high DR is more points in the FIA races, but does really seem to be a good motivator. I still think there needs to be more Sport Mode content and a tighter clamp on who gets to play. That way, it's either play nice or don't play.

There's no way to prevent them from being a tool, but the algorithm could prevent them from tanking their ratings. I still maintain it makes no sense to allow your DR to fall precipitously in the game. It's not representative of reality and it leaves the system open to being gamed to no one's benefit.

 

[Robben]

There's no way to prevent them from being a tool, but the algorithm could prevent them from tanking their ratings. I still maintain it makes no sense to allow your DR to fall precipitously in the game. It's not representative of reality and it leaves the system open to being gamed to no one's benefit.

Has it happened to you? Someone clearly better dropping down and taking victories from you I mean.

 

[polizei]

There's no way to prevent them from being a tool, but the algorithm could prevent them from tanking their ratings. I still maintain it makes no sense to allow your DR to fall precipitously in the game. It's not representative of reality and it leaves the system open to being gamed to no one's benefit.

I was disappointed that bump draft hurt my SR. IMO, it's more beneficial to the player ahead of me and if we work together to catch the leader or the pack it's good for both of us. Of course, I don't bump them into a corner and it's different than dive bombing, punting, etc. But its a hit against me so I don't do it.

 

[Senna52]

I’m beginning to think that very few users on here have played other racing sims online. This is easily one of the better online experiences I’ve had. The penalty system is very similar to iracing, and while I can understand that it is frustrating at times, it does a fairly good job.

 

[demeaning pie]

It definitely does make a difference otherwise PD wouldn't be making updates like they just did to fix problems

PD is fixing glitches. There is a difference between fixing a bug in the game and making corrections to the ****** skill level rating and penalties. While I may be wrong, I don't think PD has done anything to fix that latter.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Has it happened to you? Someone clearly better dropping down and taking victories from you I mean.

Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant, but there have been many examples on this forum of people "dropping down" their SR and/or DR in order to reboot their online career. While their intentions may be honourable, it can still be gamed by nefarious players and there's plenty of evidence of that.

 

[Voodoovaj]

There's no way to prevent them from being a tool, but the algorithm could prevent them from tanking their ratings. I still maintain it makes no sense to allow your DR to fall precipitously in the game. It's not representative of reality and it leaves the system open to being gamed to no one's benefit.

Haha, I posted a thread about this very same concept and everyone called me a hater and argued against me. I agree, if you reach a DR tier, it is a broad judgment of your skill, as it should be. Yes, you could stop playing or have a losing streak that drops you, but I don't understand how you can be an A one minute and a low B the next. Your DR is akin to the colored tiers in GT League and, IMHO, you shouldn't lose your rating within moments. There needs to be a larger sample size of data that determines your DR. Keep the current system under the covers and put a better, more common sense rating on top of it.

I quit races all the time because clients always seem to call when I sit down for a race, and, well, money and work is always more important.

I had to quit last week just as I got one of those eye roll penalties, IIRC I cut one of the corners at Nurb too close and got 5 seconds, I dropped from A/S to B/B in an instant. That makes no sense. Even if I quit because of poor sportsmanship, why should my DR drop? And, the SR drop is mind boggling. I drop two spots because I got a penalty and quit, but if I got a penalty and stayed, it would have been disregarded. This is why people aren't careful about contact. It's completely irrelevant.

By all common sense measures, I am a low A/S driver. I qualify with the A's. I lap with the A's. I am an A all day long (there's a joke in there). But, today, I am a B. Tomorrow? Who knows.

Maybe if the DR/SR were actual achievements, it would be more valuable to people.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Haha, I posted a thread about this very same concept and everyone called me a hater and argued against me. I agree, if you reach a DR tier, it is a broad judgment of your skill, as it should be. Yes, you could stop playing or have a losing streak that drops you, but I don't understand how you can be an A one minute and a low B the next. Your DR is akin to the colored tiers in GT League and, IMHO, you shouldn't lose your rating within moments. There needs to be a larger sample size of data that determines your DR. Keep the current system under the covers and put a better, more common sense rating on top of it.

I quit races all the time because clients always seem to call when I sit down for a race, and, well, money and work is always more important.

I had to quit last week just as I got one of those eye roll penalties, IIRC I cut one of the corners at Nurb too close and got 5 seconds, I dropped from A/S to B/B in an instant. That makes no sense. Even if I quit because of poor sportsmanship, why should my DR drop? And, the SR drop is mind boggling. I drop two spots because I got a penalty and quit, but if I got a penalty and stayed, it would have been disregarded. This is why people aren't careful about contact. It's completely irrelevant.

By all common sense measures, I am a low A/S driver. I qualify with the A's. I lap with the A's. I am an A all day long (there's a joke in there). But, today, I am a B. Tomorrow? Who knows.

Maybe if the DR/SR were actual achievements, it would be more valuable to people.

It's so logical I don't understand why everyone doesn't agree. The algorithm should take a long term approach to finding your natural skill level and match you against similar drivers, sorting lobbies by how safe a driver you are. As it is, it allows you to choose a skill level to compete at, at any place up to and including your natural skill level and you can vary it up and down as you please far too quickly and easily. That doesn't make for a good matchmaking process IMO.

 

[Sander 001]

PD is fixing glitches. There is a difference between fixing a bug in the game and making corrections to the ****** skill level rating and penalties. While I may be wrong, I don't think PD has done anything to fix that latter.

Yes they have made fixes to penalties. And they're doing much more than fixing glitches.

 

[demeaning pie]

Yes they have made fixes to penalties. And they're doing much more than fixing glitches.

Like adding a broken track?

 

[Voodoovaj]

It's so logical I don't understand why everyone doesn't agree. The algorithm should take a long term approach to finding your natural skill level and match you against similar drivers, sorting lobbies by how safe a driver you are. As it is, it allows you to choose a skill level to compete at, at any place up to and including your natural skill level and you can vary it up and down as you please far too quickly and easily. That doesn't make for a good matchmaking process IMO.

Apparently, the idea is that we use the honor system, because racing is an honor based sport. . Racers never exploit loopholes or even outright break rules.