An explanation of American distaste for some cars

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It's all very well fitting an engine lengthways, but you have to be able to fit it's width in too.
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That's true in so many ways...
 
Sniffs
Famine: we had astra and vectra for only a couple years before GM pulled the plug on Saturn (the car guys were DROOLING at the little buggers).
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Oddly, the cars themselves are utter crap. But you still got some of the most popular models from GM Europe.

Sniffs
remember, the Mondys were a flop over here. too close quarters for American Personal Space tastes, I hear.
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And even more oddly, the Mondeo/Contour is both one of the most popular cars ever sold in Europe, but absolutely the segment leader with every iteration. The Mk2 that the US got as the Contour still hasn't been equalled by Vauxhall's equivalent. The Mk3 that followed it was even better (I had one for a while - utterly faultless car) and the Mk4 we currently get is even better than that. So if your magazines are fapping themselves crosseyed over the Opel Insignia/Buick Regal, they'd damn near rip it clean off if they ever got their hands on a Mk3 or Mk4 Mondeo.

The Fiesta you're about to get is one of the best cars on sale in Europe today - though the sedan is squiffy-looking and I doubt the hatchback will perform all that well in the US. But then our Focus and Mondeo are also right up at the top.
 
Wonder how much better it is than the Mazda2, though. While there's a clear and definite gap between the Focus and the Mazda3, I feel that the Mazda2 is an incredibly solid little car. We aren't getting the Fiesta till much later this year.
 
Much. I know two guys who worked on the Fiesta project - Ford aimed to get it to do anything any other car in the sector could do, but better. They sat on the car when the 2 was released and made sure that, though essentially the same car, the Fiesta was better.

It's also a rarity in that it's lighter than the preceding model.
 
Was the previous model also a Demio sister? It's hard to see how much better a car that's already 100% better than the current Fit can get... but if it's any better than that, it'd be dangerously close to being perfect.

I just wish our local Ford distributorship would make up their minds, already... after a series of bold moves gained them major market share here in the past decade, they've been largely sitting on their hands... too wishy washy to decide whether or not to bring in the Mondeo and the Fiesta...
 
Fortunately not. Though that generation of Fiesta (Mark VI in the UK, Mark V everywhere else) was probably the least inspiring or able Fiesta compared not only to its predecessors and successor but also to its rivals. Even the Corsa - gearbox excluded, still - managed to get the jump on it, though it's still a good hatchback in its own right. Compared to the extremely dynamic (they based the Puma/FRP, Ka/StreetKa/SportKa on it, all of which are similarly praised dynamically) and gloriously basic Mk3/3.5/4/4.5 and the current model, it's a cacker. And a heavy cacker at that.

If you love hatchbacks, the Fiesta is probably the current pinnacle precisely because it's been designed with the help of every other hatchback there is (and a couple that there weren't yet).
 
Famine
It's also a rarity in that it's lighter than the preceding model.
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...but nowhere near as light as the equivalent 2...

I'd still pick 2 over Fiesta. It's nicer to look at inside and out, and it's still pretty damn good to drive.
 
I know we went through 2 or 3 versions of the Contour (i preferred the design that they finished with), as a replacement for our own homegrown piece of crap Tempo/Topaz. we can't seem to get that particular size segment right with Ford products. part of the European transplant problem seems to be that the add-ons required by US regs overloads the design.

the Demio/2 was one we never got, here. by the time we were introduced through Gran Turismo, the Hatch had pretty much become a persona non grata (not completely, though, as proved by Xb/Bb, Cube, etc.)

I'm starting to bet that the only way Americans would take to a hatch would be to make completely sure it looks like an SUV :P
 
Sniffs
I'm starting to bet that the only way Americans would take to a hatch would be to make completely sure it looks like an SUV :P
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It's pretty much all a crossover is.

Designer 1: We should try to make a hatchback for Americans
Designer 2: It will never sell
Designer 1: What if we raised it 3 inches and called it an SUV/Sedan mix?
Designer 2: You might be on to something there.
 
Perhaps the issue with selling European-market is the difference in 'standard' sizes. Take the Mondeo - in terms of your classifications it's too big to be a compact and too small to be a mid-size (as far as I can work out anyway).

We've had the same issue with pretty much every Chrysler product to grace our showrooms - the Neon was in between our compact and mid-size classes, and I believe the Sebring is currently classed as some sort of small HGV.
 
Eh...I still see plenty of Contours out there, and have even seen an SVT out in the wild. I dont' think it really sold poorly. Perhaps less than a Taurus of the day, but not poorly.
 
Size is part of it. To small to be a midsizer... too expensive to be a compact. That's also part of what hobbles Mazda6 sales... incredible, when you think about it... the Mazda6 is by all rights a perfectly good midsize car... but the midsize class in the US has outgrown it. An Accord is so large nowadays that the AC vents in front are in a different time zone, and need to be set on "Hurricane" to cool the rear end of the car.

Sure, it's not that big of a difference... but with many purchases of brand new vehicles being made by married couples and women, that size difference actually counts in terms of sales.
 
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Sniffs
Famine: we had astra and vectra for only a couple years before GM pulled the plug on Saturn (the car guys were DROOLING at the little buggers). I wouldn't be surprised at a Vectra using a Buick badge (the label only survives because the Chinese adore the dang things).
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We had the Astra for about two years under the Saturn brand, but we did have (nearly) the same platform and engines that went under the Cobalt/G5. The Vectra has been floating around in the US for more than a decade, going back to the old Chevrolet Malibu in 1999. The Vectra died to create the Insignia, which is exactly what the Buick Regal is here in the US. While the Buick LaCrosse had its design influenced by the Chinese division of the brand, the Regal was almost entirely finished off over there. Still, not a bad car.

Plus, they're (probably) giving us this:
buick_regal_gs_0_430.jpg


Basically the Insignia VXR/OPC with a lower output 2.0T engine. Still comes with the fancy automatic suspension and the Haldex AWD system. Oh, and a stick. Sweet.
 
Sniffs
I'm starting to bet that the only way Americans would take to a hatch would be to make completely sure it looks like an SUV :P
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You'd quite like the EU Ford Fusion then :D
 
Justin: Strewth! (the Forrester is also a perfect example)

Jondot: here's how the US size scale works.
subcompact: Cavalier/Escort/Focus and below
Compact:Contour/Topaz/Beretta/Corsica (look those up, Beretta SpA gave GM a hard time over the name)
Midsize: Taurus/Malibu/Lumina
Fullsize: Only the Crown vic police cruisers exist, but the current version of the Taurus is considered a full sizer.
trucks work on a different scale, and go by payload. I'm not sure which dimension they go by tough. whether Interior Volume, overall length, or wheelbase.

Famine: that's a crossover, here. i notice, like with the Transit that got over here, that it uses the same headlights design we assigned to Mercurys
 
Sniffs
Famine: that's a crossover, here. i notice, like with the Transit that got over here, that it uses the same headlights design we assigned to Mercurys
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It seems to me that when Ford US uses a Ford EU vehicle for it's own market, it will change the styling to meet what ever the Ford US 'family face' is at the moment. When they use a Ford EU vehicle for the Mercury line-up, they do little more than change the badge.
 
Sniffs
Famine: that's a crossover, here.
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For reference, it's also based on the Fiesta Mk3-4.5 (Mk3-5 UK), and is actually the size below the Focus. And we have two car sizes below that.

We have:
Executive - BMW 7 series/Mercedes S-Class/Audi A8/VW Phaeton
Large family car - BMW 5 series/Audi A6/VW Passat
Family car - BMW 3 series/Audi A4/VW Bora/Ford Mondeo/Vauxhall Vectra/Honda Accord
Small family car - BMW 1 series/Audi A3/VW Golf/Ford Focus/Vauxhall Astra/Honda Civic
Supermini - BMW MINI/Ford Fiesta/Vauxhall Corsa/Renault Clio/Honda Jazz/Toyota Yaris
City Car - Ford Ka/Vauxhall Agila/Renault Twingo/Toyota Aygo
Microcar - MCC Smart ForTwo/Ligier Ambra/Aixam City
 
The Ligier and the Aixam are in the same field as the Smart? I remember in Spain you could drive the Smart on highways, but not the Ligier or the Aixam. In fact, the Smart had a car licence plate/status, while the Aixam, Ligier and about 3 others had the motorcyle licence plate/status. Certainly not the car you want to be stuck behind on a mountain road.
 
Physically they're all microcars. Most microcars can be driven (technically ridden, and you'll see why) with a motorbike licence, though the Smart enjoys full car status and requires a car licence.

The Smart (2.50m by 1.51m) is actually a good deal smaller than something like the Aixam 500 (2.88m by 1.44m) and has a shorter wheelbase (1.81m to 1.93m)..!
 
Famine
So if your magazines are fapping themselves crosseyed over the Opel Insignia/Buick Regal, they'd damn near rip it clean off if they ever got their hands on a Mk3 or Mk4 Mondeo.
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Just have to add that of all the cars I have driven over the decades (and that's a lot) the Insignia has a special place in my memory.

I hate this car to a degree bordering on the pathological, when my 3 series was off the road over Christmas/New Year I had one as a hire car. Aside from having a reasonable amount of space inside, it has no other quality I liked at all.

My main hate however comes in regard to rear visibility, its almost as if the design team went out of their way to make it as poor as possible. Easily the worst car of its class to try and park that I have ever driven. To put it into perspective, a Boxter is easier to park with the roof up.

I will continue to do all I can to convince the sane population of the world to not buy these rolling sacks of 🤬.


Scaff
 
With Vauxhall I'd consider a current Corsa if they've solved the gearbox from hell. And by extension the Tigra though they do sod all for me.

The Insignia bores the crap out of me. It's borderline dangerous as it induces narcolepsy whenever I see one. Any car designer who checks out the Toyota Avensis and thinks "Hey, yeah! That's the look we need! Though... maybe tone it down a bit?" needs shooting in the hands, eyes and gentleman vegetables.
 
There is no current Vauxhall I'd buy. Not a single one. Since they axed the VX220 they have offered absolutely nothing that's even slightly better than anything else available. There are a couple of decent Mk4 Astras, and a few interesting cars from the early 80s backwards, but other than that they do absolutely nothing for me. In addition, Vauxhall drivers, be they frustrated reps in Vectras, chavs in Corsas or old gits in Merivas and Agilas, are categorically the worst drivers in the entire country. Bar none.
 
The exception being John Cleland ;)
 
Of course. Though Derek Warwick isn't.
 
Famine
Any car designer who checks out the Toyota Avensis and thinks "Hey, yeah! That's the look we need! Though... maybe tone it down a bit?" needs shooting in the hands, eyes and gentleman vegetables.
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:lol:

Although Vauxhall know exactly what they're doing. The only market for the Insignia is company car drivers. And all fleet managers want is a selection of reasonably priced saloons that look 'professional' and totally uninteresting. Which is why you won't see any Citroen C4s as company cars. Outside of Northern France, anyway.

That applies to the Insignia anyway. The rest of the range is just bland by default.
 
Jondot
:lol:

Although Vauxhall know exactly what they're doing. The only market for the Insignia is company car drivers. And all fleet managers want is a selection of reasonably priced saloons that look 'professional' and totally uninteresting. Which is why you won't see any Citroen C4s as company cars. Outside of Northern France, anyway.

That applies to the Insignia anyway. The rest of the range is just bland by default.
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Fleet managers actually care very little about the list/sale price of a car, of far more interest is the residual value in comparison to the sale value.

In other words they want the car they will loose the least on over the period of use, that's why my 320i M-Sport cost less to lease than a Mondeo. Simply put it looses a lot less money per mile I drive it.


Regards

Scaff
 
Then I stand corrected. Although from what I can find, an Insignia is considerably cheaper to lease than the equivalent Bimmer. And my guess is that Vauxhall are slightly more open to being bargained with than BMW - particularly if you're after a dozen of the same model.
 
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you brits got screwed out of the VX?! damn, that's where they were gonna send the Solstice/Sky platform to when they killed Saturn.

Insignia :drool: over here, that would sell like hotcakes because it ISN'T boring. compared to some Buicks it's a frikin hot-rod! Hey, Vaux, can we bum your grille design?

the few pictures I've seen of the Transit (it was in the MT TOTY competition, btw), used the EDM headlights, with the only change possibly being that they gave it the Mach 3 US ford grille.
 
The new Astra looks promising...

On the explaination on Americans' car taste, I think it just have to do with sizes.. In the US, everything is big, big is good, bigger is better. Americans want space inside their cars, bigger chairs for bigger people, cup holders for their large McD cokes.. The roads are wide and can accomodate large cars.

In Japan on the other hand, everything is small and cramped, space for nothing beside the absolute minimum. You'll see a lot of Kei cars and very few SUVs, it's not so much about style but more about practicality. A 660 ccm car makes more sense in Tokyo than in rural Texas, imagine having to put up with 4-5000 rpm whine in 5th gear to keep up with 80-90mph traffic on the I-10, or driving on dirt roads with pot holes that'll swallow your car whole. Or, the other way around, parking a V8 Chevy Silverado in your 'driveway' in Tokyo..

If the US rules of importing hadn't been so narrow minded, I'm sure you'd be seeing a lot of Keis among enthusiasts, the same way you're so hard driving an Escalade around in Tokyo, because people always want to stand out from the crowd. It's not just that easy in the US, or very practical for the masses.
 
I got an interesting mail, and found a perfect example of why americans don't like small cars.
file000212.jpg
(blow it up)
THAT is what is left of a Smart Fourtwo. and those aren't even BIG trucks
 
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