Any questions to Taku Imasaki? UPDATE: questions answered

[Lawndart]

Unfortunately by going completely off topic on the custom race creator question, I can only conclude that he either: A. Has poor comprehension skills, or B. Deliberately evaded the question. If his answer was deliberate, then I have to take it as a no. This evasion could reflect a larger view on PD's part toward singleplayer in general. Namely, that they don't care what the community thinks or wants.

I'm not ready to make that jump yet: it's only one person's comments on one question, after all, but when combined with the lackluster singleplayer options we have so far in GT6 I find it highly troubling going forward. I just want us, the community, to have the tools (full custom offline race options) so we can create the content PD refuses to make.

I completely agree with your assessment but considering the event creator is a newer idea, likely birthed from shared opinions like yours, it was quite obvious this was coming from left field and no one comments on speculation.

BUT! If you read between the lines, he might have been dropping us a hint that the online features might have something very similar to an event creator not unlike the one from the question, but just in the online section... And frankly, that does seem more likely and progressive, though I would desire an offline version more...

Its a natural design evolution to do an online version of an event creator as it enables you to share the events you create along with competing in them with others... If I had a choice I would certainly peruse the online one, as I could easy just allow AI to participate instead of other players in an update to achieve nearly the exact same result...

Sometimes these folks walk the fine by answering the exact question but in a different context if you look closely, but nothing can be proven either way until we see it...

 

[Griffith500]

But why would GranTurismo more processor intensive than any other game for sound
Why can Forza do it or Shift 2?
Yes i know they are not technically accurate but neither is what we have now so i don't get your point?

At least they sound good and exciting.

Like you said you are astounded they did it with the RedBull JRs, so they can do it!

Because PD have ignored sampling altogether to do something different - that is the sole reason the X-cars sound comparatively good (the distortion is possibly deliberate at this stage, for the reasons I outlined already). They've shunned the easy way (something I'd personally hoped that developers would do sooner rather than later).

If they'd have put the effort into traditional sampling, the game would probably sound like any other already, except the samples might still be comparatively short and few in number (for the same reason that XBox 360 games generally have better texture quality than PS3 games), leading to the same weird thinness.

It'd still have been nice if PD did a stopgap solution with sampling, making sure all cars sound accurate, and worked on this new method for PS4 only, but it's possible they wanted it on PS3 from the start (as I said, it is very difficult - there is literally no precedent here) - plus, without intake sounds (which require a separate source, or mixing step at least), most cars would still sound wrong / incomplete anyway.


That's the key difference Taku Imasaki was talking about, that PD are not making their new sounds (the ones we're still waiting for in the update) according to the same rules as other developers. He was not saying, as @JackC8 seems to have inferred, that the sounds are already "groundbreaking" in any way. Although, I'd argue the sound engine is - there was no precedent for relativistic tracking and mixing of sound sources in a game environment, for instance; that's largely unnoticeable to most people, and doesn't help with the samples, of course, but it'll all tie together in the end.

 

[Tenacious D]

One quick point about Taku's answers. You can't expect him to give details of upcoming goodies. You might as well ask what T10 has in sore for Forza 6. Things will be in flux. Goals may or may not be met. Time to release will always be a question mark. Anything definite he says will be taken as a promise, and when PD misses a mark or a deadline, they would be crucified for it. So being patient here will be a virtue. The game is not even two months old, and already we want 12 months of promises scheduled, and possibly delivered by Valentine's Day.

But why would GranTurismo more processor intensive than any other game for sound
Why can Forza do it or Shift 2?

I can't answer about Shift 2, but I suspect they aren't any more accurate than Forza, and do something similar.

And a few of us have explained this before. Forza, F4 in particular, uses incredibly LOUD, distorted samples on all cars. I've owned a Supra Mk III for more than a decade, and it's seriously overblown. And in race and replays both, they give generic, lesser samples to all the other cars. In fact, in just about every replay with street cars, your car will be making this ungodly roar heard over all the other cars, even from a distance. With race cars it's a little more even, but they only use a few choice exhaust samples.

In fact, switch cars in a replay, and the game will black screen and pause for several seconds, because it's dumping the previous sample set and loading it for the new "focus" car. I grew tired of the ugly "dying cow" exhaust note on a stock RX-7 I was racing, and was passed by another RX with simpler but better sounding tone. In the replay, I wanted to listen to it so I switched to it. But no, it dumped those "plain" samples for the "sexy dying cow" tones I was trying to get away from.

This is T10's design decision, and it seems to make the fans happy because I wouldn't doubt all they care about is this big doom roar from their own cars. But no, they can't do it right on this "easier to develop for" system because their resource budget clearly won't allow it, or I'm sure they would. And bringing up PC sims is really not the same at all, as you typically have just a handful of different car types - in F1, what do you have, ONE basic exhaust note? In FIA GT, how many cars are permitted, six or seven? And of course PCs have far more ram for things like textures and sound samples, so bringing up that other universe is only good to mention as a goal PD should aim for, especially on PS4.

I'd much rather have these "terrible" GT6 samples than the ungodly roar from Forza, and on one car. I know this is a personal druther and others have their own feelings on this. And no, I'm not saying that Gran Turismo is paaaarfect, or that we shouldn't ask for better sounds. I really want GT6 to be as close to perfection as possible. But they're squeezing an awful lot into the PS3 in GT6, more than ever. Heck, they even increased the resolution, which I think was a really bad idea, but they thought they could pull it off. And everything has to fight for both Cell resources and RAM space, so they pick their poison.

As Griff has spoken at length a number of times on this topic, PD are up to something, and overall, sounds are a little better. I have no clue if what basic improvements we get in GT6 will make anyone happy. They may be like the "sub-Premium" cars we have now. Some love them, some consider them a waste of time. With all things PD, you'll have to see, and then be the judge.

So (because of custom liveries) you end up a game where racing is a afterthought. And it shows in the various lobbies on Forza. One of my favorite things to do is listen to others play Forza....you'll never hear such a collection of swear words and angry phrases anywhere.

So car artists are brats? And I know some like glassjaw say:

As someone who has spent lots of time online in Forza, giving a livery editor to the masses almost always results in awkward recreations of Monster Energy liveries and subcompacts painted to look like Pokemon. I respect and appreciate guys who work hard to recreate classic liveries or make something original and interesting that actually belongs on a car, but this is just a small aspect of the community and certainly not the majority.

But this isn't my experience. Yes, most gamers aren't capable artists, and can't do a reasonable livery to save their life. However, because of the Storefront and Auction House, there are a TON of very nice liveries on offer, many of them free, so when I did go online, I rarely saw a Poke-car or a pinup-mobile, and non-pornie by the way.

I'll tell you what I resent, and that's people wanting to slap a paintbrush out of my hand because they see kids with rattlecans spraying garbage on walls. You nanny staters make me tired. You have to understand that the reason that Forza doesn't have all those PC sim racing rules is because

• Most kids don't want them
• It's extra work
• It doesn't fit in with the theme of the game T10 was making
• And primarily, it has to be coded right or it's just a nuisance

And the Livery design and coding team is separate from the game design and coding team. If weather was in the game, you couldn't blame that for lack of more real world racing elements either.

I will agree with you that at the very least, a series of templates we could color in and slap some decals and a league/number plaque would be something. But I have little doubt it would be basic and boring and kind of dumb. I really would rather I do with MY cars in MY game what I want, thank you. If it offends you guys, I have to wonder what you're doing on the intranets at all, which is full of offensive... everything.

Besides, one more time for the forgetful among you, this will solve everything:

Allow custom liveries (yes/no): _

And you'll never have to see a cool ride ever.

 

[TokoTurismo]

If I were to choose which type of livery editor, I will choose simple over full. Why? Because there's something about the full livery editor I don't really like, plus I'm lazy.

I'll take what @TRC GeorgiaDawg mentioned. 👍

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

The car sounds answer did answer my personal questions on why they weren't making accurate sound samples to add to the cars, so I'm contempt. I just wish they waited until GT7 on the PS4 to do this new sound method though.

As for the livery editor, I personally would be fine if they just gave us a basic method, maybe just use the licenses they have to allow us to put sponsors on our cars, maybe some basic number adding option like the one on the base model race cars, and just some stripes to put on our cars that we could paint.

 

[lator-illa]

I'm quite satisfied with the Sounds answer actually. The fact that he addressed the fans' views on the sounds is indicative that they know the sounds are lacking. His answer solidified to me that PD is fully aware of their shortcomings in the sound department, and are trying to come with new innovative ways to make the sounds authentic. I believe they could've changed the sounds a long time ago to 'sexy' it up but that would've been just a band-aid solution. I think Griffith has been bang-on with his assumptions regarding PD's direction in sounds.

 

[TokoTurismo]

If GT7 shows up at E3 this year, I hope they show off the new sounds they've been working on. I also like the anwser about the sounds as well.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

O




So car artists are brats? A

I'll tell you what I resent, and that's people wanting to slap a paintbrush out of my hand because they see kids with rattlecans spraying garbage on walls. You nanny staters make me tired.

LOL@nanny stater.

Don't get me wrong. I actually somewhat enjoy Forza's painting. If you go back and watch any of my replays from FM2 you'll see some really amazingly done University of Georgia themed liveries done by a friend. I loved it. Got into it a bit myself. Shameless plug alert - I've got some F1 themed paints on a few cars on my Forza 4 SF I'm quite happy with. So, it's not that I'm anti painting. But.................

I think what happened to Forza was the tuning marketplace in FM2 took off because of all the (LE) paintjobs and Turn 10 decided to turn it's focus away from racing and towards the UGC believing that was the way forward. Problem is, they gutted alot of the racing in the process and haven't looked back. After FM2 the game made a turn towards being a car game instead of a racer. Greenbucks even said as much in a quote that he wanted it to be a car lovers game instead of the simulation racer he once talked about. I put all of that on the painting and how in the eyes of Turn 10 it became the focus of the game.

Don't want to take the paintbrush out of your hand. But it's not in your hand to be taken away yet. I'd be happy with them just making a simple livery editor. I can always go to Forza when I want to see some anime girlies.

 

[glassjaw]

So car artists are brats? And I know some like glassjaw say:

But this isn't my experience. Yes, most gamers aren't capable artists, and can't do a reasonable livery to save their life. However, because of the Storefront and Auction House, there are a TON of very nice liveries on offer, many of them free, so when I did go online, I rarely saw a Poke-car or a pinup-mobile, and non-pornie by the way.

I'll tell you what I resent, and that's people wanting to slap a paintbrush out of my hand because they see kids with rattlecans spraying garbage on walls. You nanny staters make me tired. You have to understand that the reason that Forza doesn't have all those PC sim racing rules is because

• Most kids don't want them
• It's extra work
• It doesn't fit in with the theme of the game T10 was making
• And primarily, it has to be coded right or it's just a nuisance

And the Livery design and coding team is separate from the game design and coding team. If weather was in the game, you couldn't blame that for lack of more real world racing elements either.

I will agree with you that at the very least, a series of templates we could color in and slap some decals and a league/number plaque would be something. But I have little doubt it would be basic and boring and kind of dumb. I really would rather I do with MY cars in MY game what I want, thank you. If it offends you guys, I have to wonder what you're doing on the intranets at all, which is full of offensive... everything.

Besides, one more time for the forgetful among you, this will solve everything:

Allow custom liveries (yes/no): _

And you'll never have to see a cool ride ever.

Here's the thing, I don't want to slap a brush out of your hand because of brats who can't paint. Honestly, I could take or leave a livery editor. In Forza I use it from time to time (though I am by no means an expert at using it), and I buy a decent amount of liveries from the community. But I recognize that when you're shaping a game and developing an experience from a creative standpoint, there's a vision you want to uphold. I hate to toss around the word "vision," and I do think people use it far too often when referring to Kaz - but I have to admit that it's a serious problem. The question is, where do you draw the line between your vision and the player's freedom to define the game? There's no right answer, only subjectivity. And that on/off toggle you say will solve everything doesn't solve that problem.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think what happened to Forza was the tuning marketplace in FM2 took off because of all the (LE) paintjobs and Turn 10 decided to turn it's focus away from racing and towards the UGC believing that was the way forward. Problem is, they gutted alot of the racing in the process and haven't looked back. After FM2 the game made a turn towards being a car game instead of a racer. Greenbucks even said as much in a quote that he wanted it to be a car lovers game instead of the simulation racer he once talked about. I put all of that on the painting and how in the eyes of Turn 10 it became the focus of the game.

Don't want to take the paintbrush out of your hand. But it's not in your hand to be taken away yet. I'd be happy with them just making a simple livery editor. I can always go to Forza when I want to see some anime girlies.

I would think you'd want to take away all those tuning options, because that's sort of the same thing. And I would point out that the Livery Editor has two different characteristics for you depending on your context. When you like it, it's the tool for making cool U of G themed cars. When it's a silly Forza ruiner, it's all about anime girlies.

No, the reason Forza got weird is because the fans don't seem as serious about racing as they are leaderboards and drifting and cops 'n robbers, and T10 just followed the trend. I didn't do a whole lot of online stuff in Forza by F4 because the rooms were either all HP monsters with supercars, race cars or heavily modified Ferrari killers, or drift rooms. Anything below A Class was a thinly populated desert, which is where I like to race. So I gave up on online racing back then. It wasn't liveries, it was the typical attraction by the kids to soopermobiles. The guys who wanted to host serious racing had long ago formed clubs and leagues, and that minority drifted off into their own sector of space.

The Livery Editor didn't turn millions of kids into non-racing drifters or cat 'n mouse chasers who didn't give a spit about serious racing. That was an interesting edit of my post, by the way.

...I recognize that when you're shaping a game and developing an experience from a creative standpoint, there's a vision you want to uphold. I hate to toss around the word "vision," and I do think people use it far too often when referring to Kaz - but I have to admit that it's a serious problem. The question is, where do you draw the line between your vision and the player's freedom to define the game? There's no right answer, only subjectivity. And that on/off toggle you say will solve everything doesn't solve that problem.

Now I must admit that I'm scratching my head a bit about that "problem" thing.

Let's say that it's the angle that Kaz doesn't want us to be able to do a lot with cars in Gran Turismo. Well, that's not so much a problem for him as for us. He opens only those doors to opportunity he wants, and we can go through them or pout about it. Maybe some ingenious hacker can grab the car models, figure out how to import them into an art proggie, and then save them to the PS3's drive in a format that GT6 would be able to use, and would use. But that would be a pretty rare deal. So, the problem would be for us fans being locked out of doing cool, creative artistic things we want.

What if it's the problem that he gives us the tools to do things with Gran Turismo that he and/or others don't like?

Okay, now right there I have to wonder about that thing being posed as a "problem." Because what difference is it to anyone how a gamer enjoys the game they bought? To Kaz, I could see how he would prefer that people enjoy his game in a "proper" way. But to anyone else? What difference does it make what someone does with the cars given them? Seriously.

I do have a desire that people not drift in Gran Turismo, because to me, drifting isn't racing, it's fooling around and polluting the atmosphere with a lot of burned rubber. But who am I to tell someone they can't do that? It's their game, right? Or what about all that silly demolition derby silliness, or cops 'n robbers. Same thing? Sure it is. Liveries I might think are goofy? How is that any different?

And so I don't see a problem with anything dealing with what a gamer does with a game they paid good money for, or their parents or whatever. If there's another aspect I haven't thought about at soul's midnight, sorry, but I'm tired.

 

[Zlork]

I congratulate Taku for his answers.

As we already knew, PoDi are aware of sounds.
They are working on it and I am sure they will succeed, don't lack anything.

Then, it seems they don't want to copy others, Forza or Shift' sounds are very bad, completely unrealistic.

Concerning livery editor, I am very pleased to know that this isn't their priority.
It's useless to waste time on something that will be used by a minority of players. For me, Gran Turismo is a racing/driving game, not a drawing game.

 

[GranTurismoer]

Cheers for your efforts Ron.

 

[mister dog]

Then, it seems they don't want to copy others, Forza or Shift' sounds are very bad, completely unrealistic.

FM's are a bit on the loud side yes, but they are also the most realistic and true to life samples i have heard in any racing game ever... Also Shifts are way better.

I find it a bit silly that Taku says "they don't wanna copy anyone else, as those are not realistic enough", when for the past 10 years they have had the most unrealistic engine sounds of any racing game out there...
Of course his answer makes people hope and jump on the "PD are technical wizards" bandwagon again; but i'm a bit sceptical about these declarations to say the least. Let's see if Kaz and Taku's statements regarding sounds become truth somewhere this year before we start praising them at least.

 

[GBO Possum]

1) Event/Championship Creator (where we could choose AI cars, AI levels, standing starts, mechanical dammage...)
2) Tyre bugs (custom wheels and after pit)
3) TRIPLE SCREEN

You might want to vote for triple screen here - bring back Multi Monitor support to GT

 

[mohammad]

I congratulate Taku for his answers.

As we already knew, PoDi are aware of sounds.
They are working on it and I am sure they will succeed, don't lack anything.

Then, it seems they don't want to copy others, Forza or Shift' sounds are very bad, completely unrealistic.

Concerning livery editor, I am very pleased to know that this isn't their priority.
It's useless to waste time on something that will be used by a minority of players. For me, Gran Turismo is a racing/driving game, not a drawing game.

for you. you can ignore drawing & continue racing
& i dont even know what to say about your minority comment.
how do you even come up with that

 

[Griffith500]

FM's are a bit on the loud side yes, but they are also the most realistic and true to life samples i have heard in any racing game ever... Also Shifts are way better.

I find it a bit silly that Taku says "they don't wanna copy anyone else, as those are not realistic enough", when for the past 10 years they have had the most unrealistic engine sounds of any racing game out there...
Of course his answer makes people hope and jump on the "PD are technical wizards" bandwagon again; but i'm a bit sceptical about these declarations to say the least. Let's see if Kaz and Taku's statements regarding sounds become truth somewhere this year before we start praising them at least.

Forza's sounds are not "loud"; they're deliberately distorted. It's your brain that conflates that with "loud", and there are better ways to achieve that impression. The first being to turn the volume right up, which is awful with distorted sound and a narrow dynamic range; you need a clean, wide and deep sound for that, like real life.

"Turning it up" is not an option for a lot of people, but that doesn't make distortion the only solution - there is a lot of middle ground to cover. That middle ground remains largely unexplored, though, so why take the risk? Because it needs to happen, for everyone's benefit.

Nobody's praising anything yet, we've not got the final product, so there is technically nothing to praise.
I personally will always praise progressive thinking, however, because without it there is no progress. If that progress isn't in the area somebody thinks it should be, they obviously just have different priorities.

 

[G.T.Ace]

FM's are a bit on the loud side yes, but they are also the most realistic and true to life samples i have heard in any racing game ever... Also Shifts are way better.

I find it a bit silly that Taku says "they don't wanna copy anyone else, as those are not realistic enough", when for the past 10 years they have had the most unrealistic engine sounds of any racing game out there...
Of course his answer makes people hope and jump on the "PD are technical wizards" bandwagon again; but i'm a bit sceptical about these declarations to say the least. Let's see if Kaz and Taku's statements regarding sounds become truth somewhere this year before we start praising them at least.

 

[mister dog]

@Griffith500 I can only quote my ears as i don't have the slightest idea of how they the sounds are actually composed. If i listen to the real car and then compare to FM4 it always sounds spot on to me, the end result is what matters and in FM these are very satisfying indeed.

Also about the praise, i know the results are not there yet, but people already take Taku's words as spoken truth, whilst given PD's history they ought to be a bit more skeptical.

@G.T.Ace I did say "I have heard"

 

[TokoTurismo]

I heard the smart fortwo in FM4 once when I bought it. Oh lord why does it sound like a race car is beyond me. Totally distorted for sure.

 

[G.T.Ace]

@G.T.Ace I did say "I have heard"

I know and now you've heard something much better.

 

[Tenacious D]

I heard the smart fortwo in FM4 once when I bought it. Oh lord why does it sound like a race car is beyond me. Totally distorted for sure.

Back when F4 was initially released, there was a brief thread started about how all the street cars sounded like race cars. It didn't last very long, because obviously to most people, louder = better/more real.

As I've mentioned before, my Supra in real life sounds like a little school bus that whirrs and whines. In F4, like a race car. But what am I going to believe, my own ears, or the opinions of a hundred thousand kids?

I will have to say that after listening to a number of samples of race cars from various games, Race Room is now the only game that sounds truly good to me.

 

[danielc]

In the end pd is the one that should blame pd, their greed to inflate the numbers is biting them right back.
They should team up with yamaha that has knowledge in sounds and engines.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Back when F4 was initially released, there was a brief thread started about how all the street cars sounded like race cars. It didn't last very long, because obviously to most people, louder = better/more real.

As I've mentioned before, my Supra in real life sounds like a little school bus that whirrs and whines. In F4, like a race car. But what am I going to believe, my own ears, or the opinions of a hundred thousand kids?

I will have to say that after listening to a number of samples of race cars from various games, Race Room is now the only game that sounds truly good to me.

Your own ears my friend. 👍 Don't get me wrong, I actually like the sounds in FM, NFS and other racing games, but something has finally strock me. This is in my opinion btw, but after hearing Raceroom's engine sounds, I now gain this belief that louder = typical kid favorites.

 

[Griffith500]

In the end pd is the one that should blame pd, their greed to inflate the numbers is biting them right back.
They should team up with yamaha that has knowledge in sounds and engines.

If I'm right about what I'm hearing, they'll have had no choice but to, even if it's only for bureaucratic reasons.
There was also that little factoid published before GT5 was launched, where PD said they worked very closely with Yamaha to get the sound of the LFA right.

I personally think this is a much better video of the LFA.

 

[Tenacious D]

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the sounds in FM, NFS and other racing games

I'm sure that over a number of my sound debate posts, I make it seem like I hate all other racing games and huggle my Gran Turismo discs in bed.

I do like a lot of the car sounds in the Forzas, NFSs, GRIDs and Dirts and a whole host of other games. Some do bug me and don't sound right. But really, after listening to a number of Raceroom examples, it just seems like every racer should sound like that because they're doing more right than anyone else.

Griffith500 is really carrying a big torch for Polyphony's sound department, because they do have a ways to go to reach RR's quality. And really, it could happen if PD is reserving some Cell resources for some computing heavy processing, which synthesizing is. Say, reserving a lot of time on an SPE, or maybe an entire SPE to handle audio processing, which could potentially explain some of the weird issues in GT6. Cell is extremely powerful if you divvy up resources right, and PD is one of the developers who have taken the Cell engine about as far as it can go.

 

[Devil240Z]

so if they fix the sound. people will still just complain.