Any reasons that you're more interested in Gran Turismo 7 than Forza Motorsport (Xbox Series X)?

Discussion in 'Console & PC Gaming' started by CarRacer08, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. TokoTurismo

    TokoTurismo

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    I don't see how either are better than one another. Forza Motorsport was a clip that left many questions, and GT7 was just GT Sport with raytracing and nostalgia factor thrown in.

    And I rather no gameplay after seeing GT7's gameplay, which shown no difference to GT Sport at all...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  2. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows

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    ...isn't multiple accounts against the rules, GT6?
     
  3. GT7mebe

    GT7mebe (Banned)

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    I got locked out of my account.
     
  4. Morbid65

    Morbid65

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    Thinking deep or interesting racing has anything to do with AI.

    [​IMG]


    How so?

    Forza is about as shallow as you can get for racing. There's no management of your car or strategic options unless you deliberately tailor race lengths to each car. It doesn't even have a properly functioning draft, meaning that if you are racing people of a similar skill level, the only way you can get passes done is by risky lunges on the brakes or forcing errors, which become more rare the better group you are racing with. On top of that, it's very forgiving so with the exception of a few glitchy kerbs and things, there is basically nothing to be afraid of running 10/10ths every lap.

    Just watching their eSports stuff pretty plainly puts the issues on display. The FRC stuff has been dreadfully boring outside of the amusing sloppy divebomb attempts, meanwhile the GTS stuff often comes down to the last lap as different strategies are converging.

    I have some fun races in Forza of course, but even in an organized group with 5 or so guys within a half a second of me pace-wise, we have more races where things get stretched out and predictable 20% of the way into a race than we do where we are fighting all the way to the end. The finish results are often pretty damn predictable as well, since there is such a small chance for anything other than pace to decide things.

    I'm guessing part of the difference on this subject has to do with how people play. Those who just play career mode or turn on the game for a free play race a few times a week probably have very different standards than people who are actually competing with other humans in organized races.

    Most of those I see/hear hating GTS complain about the lack of career mode and car upgrading and so on, meanwhile a lot of us who went the Xbox direction and are stuck with Forza are very jealous of the working draft, pit strategy options, and lobby setup controls.
     
  5. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    Again you're talking about online, I and many others couldn't give a monkeys about online. GTS is an anomaly in the GT series owing to the fact it isn't a full on GT title, as I did point out in my post.

    And yes, the AI plays an absolutely crucial role in deep and interesting racing, to think otherwise is naive, but oh yeah, you only play online against real people like an absolute boss, good on you, so why should everyone else have fun as well? Also to suggest people have different standards based on how they play is also a massive guess based on how you play. A shoddy statement at best, elitist at worst, as you're implying those who race online gave higher standards.

    You can have all the motorsport simulation (strategies blah blah) but for the majority of gamers playing these, if the AI is trash, there's no point. Gran Turisnos AI has been trash since day 1. But it was only really highlighted as an issue from say GT4/GT5 when Forza came along and showed those types of games could have racey AI (or challenging AI at least). The drivatar system is a bit marmite but its far better to race on that any Gran Turismo. And nowadays Codemaster's F1 games set the absolute benchmark for AI racing as they attack and defend hard but fair, make mistakes and actuslly race wheel to wheel, few games come remotely close to that one.
     
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  6. TokoTurismo

    TokoTurismo

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    Not everybody likes to stinking race online, nuff said. I'm just sick of the idea that online should be the ONLY thing Forza should focus on because "mEh eSpOrTs" when every single gamer have been complaining about the XB1 era Forzas being "NoT aS gOoD aS fOrZa 4" all the time. :rolleyes:

    T10 should do this, T10 should do that, yet let's carbon copy everything GTS did because esports, pit strategies all the same stuff I heard online. Yes that will improve the online part of it, but what about everything else that made Forza Motorsport 4 supposedly great in the past? People want that more than a GTS wannabe, but if they don't do either of those, "T10 don't listen, T10 is lazy, T10 isn't great like it used to be, blah blah blah" more of the same stuff said online.

    I don't see T10 improving any areas if people keep confusing them on what "they" want and not what "everybody" wants. I'll just leave it at that.
     
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  7. Morbid65

    Morbid65

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    Obviously the AI plays a role the quality of racing... for people who race in single player or free play, which is just one part of the community. The one person made a smart-assed condescending reply to my post as if online racing didn't even exist, so I returned the favor and it wasn't directed at you or meant to be taken very seriously.

    Your dismissal of online racing and accompanying aspects because you don't care about it is no different than what you are crying "esports sim elitist!" at me about though. I don't know why it would be okay for anyone to be dismissive of the online side of the game, but not be okay for others to be dismissive of the single player...?

    I'm not implying anything about online racers having higher standards, as I didn't say anything about good/bad or high/low standards. I suppose I should have used the word "expectations" instead, but it's obvious that people who just play career couldn't care less about online lobby options and stuff, and that people who only play online wouldn't care about the career mode or AI and so on, hence they have different standards for different areas of the game. Seems like you read the first line and got awfully defensive.

    The AI in Forza is trash too, just in different ways. Their awareness is poor and they are incredibly clumsy in close proximity, but even when they do acknowledge another vehicle they can overreact and swerve too far away, causing an accident or just plain losing a bunch of time and ruining the race. They often put on the brakes on the exit of corners which not only makes them slow, but causes stupid contact as they essentially brake check you while you are following them. Group C cars literally cannot figure out how to lap a GT class car in traffic even at Monza in multiclass races. Then there are the times they break themselves and end up driving into a tire wall, reversing 5 feet, and driving into it again, repeating that for the entire race. Their pace is also artificial in many events/divisions, where spec cars will read out higher HP numbers in telemetry and achieve noticeably higher straightaway speeds than the supposedly identical car you are driving.

    I haven't played F1 2020 yet, but I've yet to play a game on console that has AI that can provide enjoyable competition, but each game has failed in their own way. For me, seeing as the AI is a wash, then the depth of racing provided from the in-game mechanics and settings is important. The way I see it, if the AI is going to suck then I might as well have some strategy injected to hold my interest.

    I seem to remember the AI in one of the older F1 games I played (maybe 2018?) not being too bad though, and unless I'm just remembering through rose tinted glasses the older TOCA games had fairly believable AI as well, so I'm not surprised if F1 2020 is leading the console games in that department. Wish they would apply it to something other than F1 though, but I suppose that's a subject for a different thread.
     
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  8. MikeV27

    MikeV27 Premium

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    The AI in the F1 games is really good, much better than what GTS or Forza offers.
     
  9. beyond72

    beyond72

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    PD would have to improve their AI for me to buy a PS instead of an Xbox.
    Plus I want a little more than a rehash of GT4 for £500 and I believe T10 are trying to do something fresh at least.
     
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  10. daan

    daan Moderator

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    Then you do this. You do not create a new account.

     
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  11. MagpieRacer

    MagpieRacer Premium

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    It's not a dismissal of online racing, I said I dont care about it I didn't say rhey should stop focusing on it. You’re the one talking down to players who play the games outside of online play. Its a reminder that these games aren't just about online as you seem to be implying..aside from GTS of course but again as it isn't a full entry in the series. Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsports fanbase is BUILT around offline single player. I also haven't claimed Forzas AI as being amazing, neither game shines, but when you comparing GT and FM its absolutely clear which one delivers, and it isn't Gran Turismo.

    Both games should have robust online. But m, as history and heritage will back up. They are single player experiences first and foremost.
     
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  12. CoolJetta3

    CoolJetta3

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    One thing I do know is its hard to get more interest in GT7 when 90% of the homepage here and articles today are about Forza :lol:
     
  13. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows

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    Considering that Polyphony's party trick this time around is a full single player suite...it kind of is?

    Lets put it this way. You can have all the tire and fuel wear that you want in your game, that's cool. If the racing is going to be built from the exact same cloth that has been present for the past nearly two decades (!), except now the grid size is 20 cars instead of 6, and your opponents are spaced out much farther then you to force you to close the gap, then what the hell is the point? Better AI will at least make things somewhat more entertaining, but that doesn't exactly take away, nor fix, the fact that GT's chase the rabbit scenarios are stale, and have actively lead to poor habits being formed within players who (with the game's consent) treat the AI, with their lack of any sort of fight and depth perception, like utter crap, and take said bad habits into online racing where all they need to do in order to actually get online and cause mayhem is watch some etiquette videos, be told to not cause too much trouble lest your (frankly, pointless) Driver and Safety ratings goes down, and off you go.

    The fact of the matter is that I'm not really that interested in sim racing online either, or at least enough to have it replace a single player suite. I'll dabble in it, sure, but I'm not, and others in this thread and in the wider world, are certainly not interested in having it effectively replace a single player suite, and be told to suck it up or ship out when pointing out the fact that it simply just offloads the problems that people in this thread, and indeed, for years, have pointed out with regards to GT's single player suite, and especially, the way that the races are designed. With GT Sport, people criticizing the (laughable) single player suite and the way that it exemplifies the worst traits of GT's single player problems that haven persisted since the beginning of the series were told to go online if they wanted a somewhat decent challenge. What's the excuse going to be now when Polyphony has had three plus years to fix these problems that are growing larger in the mirror, and they don't? Go back online again, even when Polyphony is banking on GT4 nostalgia to push units?
     
  14. JoshMead

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    I don't have much of a background in either franchise. While everyone else was participating in the alleged glory days of these games, I was rocking out in arcade racers like NFS and MotorStorm. Up until GT6, and later FM7 and GT Sport, the closest thing to a Sim I had played was NFS Shift. And between the three games I own, all of which are apparently a low point in both franchises, I've enjoyed Forza more, and am thus looking forward to Forza Motorsport more than GT7.

    My biggest time dump in racing games has always been the custom single player events, and in that respect Forza is unmatched. I have never seen so many options in a game before, it was actually a bit overwhelming at first. Being able to make four independently scored buckets of varying vehicle classes was something I never knew I needed.
    On the flip side, I found GT6 and GTS too limiting, and downright unfun with the inclusion of Gr.X taking away some potentially great scenarios. I think GT Sport is the only game I've ever played where you can't race a Pagani Zonda R against anything other than itself. Same goes for all of the multi-million Cr 60's race cars. You spend several million Cr on a Ferrari 250 GTO, only so you can use it in the one campaign tournament that actually lets your race its rivals. I don't recall any official online races being themed around them either. So you basically break your bank on a racing legend, just to use it in one tournament, or as a time attack vehicle. It made me genuinely angry, and who's to say the 917K and Ford GT MKIV from the GT7 trailer won't receive the same treatment?

    Likewise, I just dislike the entire retro getup of the GT games. The UI, the sounds, the lounge music, none of it clicks for me. I suppose its Kaz trying to play on the nostalgia of GT's 90's roots, but I'd rather see the franchise leave that behind in favor of a modern "race day" themed aesthetic. There are some things I liked more about GTS (car models, lighting effects, functional pits, that beautiful Hyundai VGT), but Forza has my best interests going forward. I don't know what its new direction is going to be, but I'm excited for it nonetheless.

    That being said, Polyphony did a better job with their teaser than Turn 10. Odds are, anyone who hasn't experienced either franchise will be more excited for GT7 right now. And justifiably so. The Forza trailer felt more like an advert for Apollo than Forza Motorsport.
     
  15. Morbid65

    Morbid65

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    Aside from the smartass bit with the picture that I said wasn't meant to be taken very serious, nowhere in either post did I say either series shouldn't work on the single player side of things, but yet again it's fine for people to go "who cares about multiplayer, I only play these games for single player so it should be #1 priority!" and get defensive and cry sim elitist if someone even hints at anything to the contrary.

    GT did build it's playerbase on single player, but that's partially because the series didn't start in a time when there was multiplayer for them to attract people with, and the multiplayer setup was kinda bad for several of the entries.

    Forza however is not "built around single player" and never has been. Part of the reason they pulled so many people away from GT at the time was that Forza actually offered good multiplayer functionality, an online player ranking system, the "Car Club" team system, and a bunch of other online community features like leaderboards, auction house, tune sharing, and so on. They have also heavily pushed the community aspect since the beginning, which granted doesn't mean exclusively online racing, but it's a given seeing as racing is kinda the point of racing games.

    That's not to say Forza is a specifically multiplayer-oriented game either, just that it's always been a balancing act for them.

    As I said that comment wasn't meant to be taken very seriously...

    All the problems you describe for GT with people racing poorly with the AI and learning bad habits applies to Forza as well, with their silly short races and cheaty AI performance. I agree that both titles need better AI and obviously that would be an improvement for the single player side of things, but I guess I'm too much of a skeptic to think that they will figure it out all of a sudden given both titles have had bad AI for years, and see the improvements through strategy as something that are a bit simpler and would benefit both sides of the community instead of just one.

    I don't think many are actually suggesting that either title go/stay multiplayer-only though, but the demands are a bit higher for multiplayer stuff on the Forza side of things just because of Forza's history of not making any significant progress.

    GT has actually shown development on the multiplayer side of things, even though for GTS it came at the cost of the single player stuff. While it's no guarantee, I think it's reasonable to expect that the stuff they improved for GTS will be carried into GT7's multiplayer modes to go along with the single player stuff making a return.

    On the Forza side, the actual racing itself has made basically zero improvements since FM1, and in some ways has actually gone backwards with tire compounds going away after FM2 and damage being greatly simplified, so that has made the multiplayer side of the Forza community a bit more vocal. When you look around at other forums or the official Discord or any of the larger Forza-specific communities, there is a lot of discussion about advancements for the racing and multiplayer side of things.

    Unfortunately the Forza series has been falling behind in both departments, so they have a lot on their plate to please both parties.
     
  16. gtracedriver1

    gtracedriver1

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    I can't disagree with you more. They try to create hype with trailers that usually happens to be much much worse than the game. Love watching how game is coming for early stage of development to the release version. I hope they make GT7 beta or pre beta version to public.
     
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  17. nicefrog

    nicefrog

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    I've never liked how Forza drives. I liked GT a lot up till GT4.. But since it's stayed pretty static since then I've lost interest. I doubt I'll be investing in Forza on PC (The Xbox looks like it'll be a complete dud so I'm not buying that anymore). I'll probably buy GT 7 on the PS5 and probably will once again think it's the same as GT4.
     
  18. TokoTurismo

    TokoTurismo

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    I don't think GT7 will have a beta. Instead we will get the full version. Hopefully nothing won't missing at release though.
     
  19. o000o

    o000o

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    This is more amount of events than GT4, taking everything like Manufacturer Events, Special Conditions, etc. (GT4 is 100+, this is 200+)
     
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  20. notsofast

    notsofast

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    I'm more intrigued with GT7 so far. I'm a fan of both FM and GT but FM7 really dropped the ball with the single player mode and the trailer for FM8 was very lacklustre. Forza hasn't had a solid campaign mode since FM4 and it just gets worse every title since then. FM7 was just about collecting cars at the expense of a solid career mode. Hopefully Project Cars 3 can fill the time before GT7.

    I'm more of an Xbox person now but will be getting a PS5 just for GT7-I've skipped GT Sport as its missing a good single player mode like GT4/5/6 so hopefully GT7 can return to the good old days.
     
  21. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    290 I think, it had an amazing choice of events, every car and class was covered plus it had the usual X v Y scenarios and more. FM4 was simply a fantastic single player game, unsurpassed in the Forza series IMO.
     
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  22. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo Premium

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    Perhaps it's actually GT that informed this in the first place, but the ambiance of the GT series is far more in line with me. The entire experience (not just the gameplay) feels so much more well considered. The Forza series always feel a bit distant and impersonal to me, especially throughout the menus and user interface. I really sink into a GT game - like a comfy leather armchair - whereas the Forza titles only come alive during racing. It's the sum of all things - the music, the user interface, the art direction, the attention to detail - just navigating the UI in GT5 was a very pleasing experience for me, especially with the electro jazz music. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed Forza quite a bit (in fact, I've owned more Forza titles [FM2, FM3, FM4, FH1, FH3, and FH4] than GT titles [GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, & GT5]) but they always feel phoned in. I'm looking forward to going back to Playstation next gen (haven't really owned a Sony console since PS2! - though I did own a PS3 for a short while, just for GT5) especially after a string of disappointing, low effort Forza titles.

    The other big problem with FM for me is Assetto Corsa. Aside from the car roster, I just feel like that game really delivers on the driving dynamics in a way that FM can't get close to. For me GT is the relaxing immersive car/racing game, and Assetto Corsa is the incredibly engaging racer. FM seems to have one foot in each bucket but is sort of middling at both.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  23. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    As it sits currently, I think its GTS that is currently trying to stick its foot in each bucket, not the other way around. Although it seems to be taking a step back next iteration - how far, we'll have to see.
     
  24. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo Premium

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    The concept of GTS never interested me, which is why I didn't buy a PS4 for it. The actual driving gameplay seems like a big step up from GT5/GT6 (sound physics, visuals, etc) but the core of the game is uninteresting to me. GT7 appears to be more of a proper GT title.
     
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  25. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    Likewise, and I think I'm ready to step back into it with GT7. I usually go for Xbox first but I've been pretty bored of both FM and FH for each of their last two iterations so I think a switch up is in order.
     
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  26. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    I would love to get back into Forza but I keep hearing about how it's not great with a racing wheel.

    If this changes next gen, my body will be ready.