Anyone else feel ripped off?

[starknight97]

I think I should have payed less than £35.00 for an incomplete game. The current price on amazon '£19.95' is about right.

 

[Grip Hunter]

Don't get me wrong, some of the game is done well. The physics feel really solid despite still having pre-historic setup adjustment options, some of them still believed to be backwards from what they should be and still no tire pressure adjustments. But a lot of the game is unfinished. There are a lot of bugs and glitches (I.E. Aftermarket wheels putting slimmer tires on the rear for cars that have wider rear tires.) I'm constantly being booted out of rooms, a similar issue I had in GT5 despite having done everything I can to amend the issue. I have to make sure that I'm in the main menu for at least 5 seconds before I attempt to quit the game or shut my PS3 of so that I don't get a triple beep and then have to go through a system restore. Surely that can't be good on the PS3.

So far, it feels like I just paid $60 to beta test a major update to GT5. And after GT5's extremely dissapointing launch and empty promises I'm losing more faith in PD.

Edit: I'm including the post I made last night to the OP.

Although I agree that there are still lots of annoying bugs in the game, the improved physics, the new cars and the new tracks were easily worth the upgrade to me. I prefer to drive with all aids off, and the HUGE improvement in driving with no ABS was very welcome. With the added bonus of the game developing over the next few years with improved Track Maker and the planned improvements for online racing I'm going to be very happy. Kaz and his team have done a great job of making this all work with such an ancient console - nothing short of brilliant. I am not easily impressed or pleased but GT6 is pretty damned good and can only get better. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, GT7 is in development. With the power of the PS4, GT7 will almost certainly be mind blowing. Well done PD!

 

[VBR]

With the power of the PS4, GT7 will almost certainly be mind blowing.

It will most certainly look awesome, but will the gameplay improve? Most of GT6's shortcomings have absolutely nothing to do with the PS3's lack of power, but more to do with PD's lack of ability when it comes to good game design.

 

[MeanElf]

It will most certainly look awesome, but will the gameplay improve? Most of GT6's shortcomings have absolutely nothing to do with the PS3's lack of power, but more to do with PD's lack of ability when it comes to good game design.

I think it will have more to do with the PS3's limitation than you may realise. At the end of the day though, it's still the same company whose games everyone here enjoyed at some point. I think the games have improved incrementally, though in essence they're still the same basic formula, and for a large part, the same design. I don't expect people to agree with me, but where did expectations shift so radically away from what you all liked?

Please, no comments about the sounds though, as that is something which has been agreed on by PD that it needs work, so let let them do that first before bringing the subject back up. Also, the game is not quite two month out of the box yet, so the 'incomplete game' comments don't really have any real justification.

 

[grrlpurple]

GT6, for me at least, is just simply missing too many features from GT5 that degrade the whole experience of the game.

I absolutely love the improvement in the physics engine, although I admit that it is far from perfect, and each car that I have driven so far seems to have a personality of its own. That was definitely missing from GT5 where every car felt identical as soon as you upgraded even one part. I love the new track additions - well, mostly. I love the new UI interface for the menu options and the loading times are a huge improvement.

Crucially, though, I am not getting anywhere near the level of enjoyment from this game than I did from previous titles. The races are much less of a challenge than I could have imagines - the AI seems to have taken a huge step backwards.

One of the main reasons I have loved the GT series to date is being able to drive such a huge variety of cars, especially newer models that come along with each release, but sadly there appears to be more emphasis on fantasy and concept car additions so far and these do very little for me.

The greatest enjoyment I ever got from GT5 was taking a random car (any make/model/standard/premium) out to a track in free run and just lapping as much as I could stand to bring the time down. My own personal time trials. I cannot even enjoy this any more because as soon as you exit out of the track the times are lost - the enjoyment just runs away from me without that visual representation on screen where I can compare and contrast with how I perform in different car models. Not to mention the removal of the speed test section of the game that was added into GT5 by pure weight of numbers here requesting for it to be added.

Do I feel ripped off?

I do. Sadly. The new physics engine is a step forwards but the rest of the game, in terms of playability and excitement, is such a huge disappointment that I do not feel that I got value for money over GT5.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I like how most "fans" here HATE Polyphony Digital. I've seen comments about how we should "return to the GT2 days." Would you really prefer to go back to 6 cars on track, one (ONE) real-life course, no online, and even dumber AI? No? Thought not. Yes, there are features from older games that need to return - I thought GT4's practice/qualifying mode was particularly neat, for instance - but going back would mean getting rid of many of the improvements PD has made over the years, improvements which you lambast and skewer because they're new. I'm not talking about everyone here, of course, but those who I am talking to know who they are. Please stop ruining it for people like myself who actually adore GT and always will. You visit a fansite to meet with other people who enjoy the game same as you do, not to stare at a cesspool of ignorance, hatred and negativity.

The people who I'm referring to need to wake up and realize that the best course of action for GTPlanet and the fan community as a whole is for them to simply accept that there are people with other opinions who would prefer for their Gran Turismo experience to not be trashed by those who don't like the more recent games.

 

[MXH]

@TeamCZRRacing I think you have heavily misinterpreted the meaning of ''returning to the GT(X) days''. People are merely talking about what made those games great.

 

[LVracerGT]

I think it will have more to do with the PS3's limitation than you may realise. At the end of the day though, it's still the same company whose games everyone here enjoyed at some point. I think the games have improved incrementally, though in essence they're still the same basic formula, and for a large part, the same design. I don't expect people to agree with me, but where did expectations shift so radically away from what you all liked?

Please, no comments about the sounds though, as that is something which has been agreed on by PD that it needs work, so let let them do that first before bringing the subject back up. Also, the game is not quite two month out of the box yet, so the 'incomplete game' comments don't really have any real justification.

I don't buy the PS3's limitations as an excuse to PD's failure to develop GT5 or GT6 to it's potential. Not when they had access to start developing for the PS3 before it was even made public knowledge, not when companies like Naughty Dog and Rockstar can achieve such quality and mind blowing titles on the PS3.

Are you really serious? 5 years to develop GT5, GT6 got the benefit of having GT5 to work off of for 2 years instead of being re-developed from the ground up and you think because they've only had 2 months to update a title that can thus far barely achieve BETA status that's not justification? I think you need to re-evaluate you're stance on that.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

@TeamCZRRacing I think you have heavily misinterpreted the meaning of ''returning to the GT(X) days''. People are merely talking about what made those games great.

So I may have. But I think you'll agree with me about the haters trying to ruin everyone else's experience. To me, these people are the only thing wrong with GT these days.

 

[VBR]

I think it will have more to do with the PS3's limitation than you may realise.

I don't think it would take up much PS3 processing power to...


...give us the option of turning off SRF for every event, & providing a tick box filter for online time trial leaderboards.

...give us the option to turn individual HUD items on or off, & assign a button to toggle the lot on or off during gameplay.

...be able to turn off the driver names that are forced on in online replays.

...give us the option of what car we start the game with.

...fix the clutch so that it works more like a real life one.

...generally give us more options instead of forcing everyone to play the game just how Kaz likes it.


I could go on all night, but we already have a suggestions forum!

 

[oqvist]

I feel so ripped off. there was a promise of what 1500 cars but there is no way to access them without paying for extra CR! If somebody expect me to grind what 3-4h? just to testdrive a high CR costint 20 million CR for a game I payed 50euro for which said this car was included! Just wow. I am sure in the disclaimer it said something that you don´t have the right to drive the cars on the disc or something but I think somebody should sue Polyphony for this and see what the lawyers say about this. Has to be some with deep pockets so not really realistic...

Is it reasonable to lock the majority of the content in such a way you can´t in any reasonable way access them if even with a simple cheat if nothing else. I am not asking much an arcade mode where all cars are accessible? Allowed to test drive cars before purchase not having to buy blind...

Oh but that go against the microtransaction push the industry goes for 100 % nowadays.

I truly truly hate GT6 due to this. I can live with the awful AI and old issues that is what it is just bad game design. I could have had fun challenging myself around green hell or what not .

 

[VolkswagenX]

I think it will have more to do with the PS3's limitation than you may realise.

It is up to the developer to make the best game possible within the limitations they have. It seems like they used all the PS3's power for pretty graphics and physics while ignoring gameplay.

At the end of the day though, it's still the same company whose games everyone here enjoyed at some point. I think the games have improved incrementally, though in essence they're still the same basic formula, and for a large part, the same design. I don't expect people to agree with me, but where did expectations shift so radically away from what you all liked?

That same basic formula worked 10 years ago but just isn't enough these days. The competition is doing a better job in most parts (AI, sound, carreer mode, etc. ) and you can't really call it an overal improvement when alot of the content from the previous game has been taken out and they still have PS2 era cars (most still look horrible).

Please, no comments about the sounds though, as that is something which has been agreed on by PD that it needs work, so let let them do that first before bringing the subject back up.

So we are not allowed to talk about the bad sounds because PD knows there bad? The longer it takes for PD to get decent sounds in the game, the more we will talk about them. They had enough time to do something about it.

Also, the game is not quite two month out of the box yet, so the 'incomplete game' comments don't really have any real justification.

What a ridiculous comment. The game is out now! It is incomplete so thats what we will call it. You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test a game. Every post i've seen of you is you making excuses for PD. It's sad...

 

[LVracerGT]

So I may have. But I think you'll agree with me about the haters trying to ruin everyone else's experience. To me, these people are the only thing wrong with GT these days.

How is trying to improve the game by voicing it in the only place PD looks for feedback ruining everyone else's experience? Please enlighten us. No one is forcing you to look at these forums. You can be content with GT how it is and go play it without spouting nonsense here.

 

[VBR]

So far, it feels like I just paid $60 to beta test a major update to GT5.

This!

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

How is trying to improve the game by voicing it in the only place PD looks for feedback ruining everyone else's experience? Please enlighten us. No one is forcing you to look at these forums. You can be content with GT how it is and go play it without spouting nonsense here.

It's not the fact that people are raising concerns. It's the fact that people are frequently so nasty and venomous about the issues they have that they're willing to outright flame anyone who actually enjoys the game. I'm not naming names - I've stepped on enough toes already by simply posting my comment, I feel - but have a look around. These non-fans, as I call them, are everywhere. Heck, I started a thread the other day about composing a sentence using mostly car names, and someone posted a comment which I have a sneaking suspicion was meant to somehow ruin the game for others in the manner I've described, though the comment was redacted by an admin and the thread locked before I got a chance to see what it said.

In any case, my point is that some people need to look at themselves long and hard and ask themselves whether they still love GT. Those who find they don't and are willing to flame those who do need to leave. Now. The only reason I stay around is because, once in a blue moon, I find someone who actually does still like the more recent games and who still has some modicum of confidence in PD. These people are a dying breed here.

 

[LVracerGT]

It's not the fact that people are raising concerns. It's the fact that people are frequently so nasty and venomous about the issues they have that they're willing to outright flame anyone who actually enjoys the game. I'm not naming names - I've stepped on enough toes already by simply posting my comment, I feel - but have a look around. These non-fans, as I call them, are everywhere. Heck, I started a thread the other day about composing a sentence using mostly car names, and someone posted a comment which I have a sneaking suspicion was meant to somehow ruin the game for others in the manner I've described, though the comment was redacted by an admin and the thread locked before I got a chance to see what it said.

In any case, my point is that some people need to look at themselves long and hard and ask themselves whether they still love GT. Those who find they don't and are willing to flame those who do need to leave. Now. The only reason I stay around is because, once in a blue moon, I find someone who actually does still like the more recent games and who still has some modicum of confidence in PD. These people are a dying breed here.

I agree in part, I get just as irritated with the people who do nothing but flame. So I apologize if I offended you. There's people who care about the game who complain for a better GT future, and then there's people who complain and flame because it's the internet and they can sit behind a keyboard and do so without exposing who they really are.

I can assure you, I'm part of the former.

 

[Bluntified]

Anyone actually post any of this on the gran-tusimo forums? That would be a much better place to complain/give feedback, SONY actually reads those.

I don't think they come here to look for suggestions or feedback but rather to look for what they did right. Most people on here are too hardcore for anyone to want to take points from. They've been hanging between hardcore and noob for a while now, but I still think it's catering more towards the intermediate/noobs.

Anyway, I don't expect to see anything big being implemented so soon, don't you guys realize that we've just passed Christmas and the New year, with the Chinese New Year just passing. Who do you thinks been working the odd few people who got trapped to their desk.

I'm a realist, I can wait.

 

[MXH]

So I may have. But I think you'll agree with me about the haters trying to ruin everyone else's experience. To me, these people are the only thing wrong with GT these days.

Flamebaiters will flamebait. But whether someone's raising concerns or simply hate for the sake of it, I still can't see how that should affect your experience with the game in a negative way. At the end of the day, it's what you think of the game that will count and not what everyone else has on their minds.

 

[QCNB]

I feel so ripped off. there was a promise of what 1500 cars but there is no way to access them without paying for extra CR! If somebody expect me to grind what 3-4h? just to testdrive a high CR costint 20 million CR for a game I payed 50euro for which said this car was included! Just wow. I am sure in the disclaimer it said something that you don´t have the right to drive the cars on the disc or something but I think somebody should sue Polyphony for this and see what the lawyers say about this. Has to be some with deep pockets so not really realistic...

Is it reasonable to lock the majority of the content in such a way you can´t in any reasonable way access them if even with a simple cheat if nothing else. I am not asking much an arcade mode where all cars are accessible? Allowed to test drive cars before purchase not having to buy blind...

Oh but that go against the microtransaction push the industry goes for 100 % nowadays.

I truly truly hate GT6 due to this. I can live with the awful AI and old issues that is what it is just bad game design. I could have had fun challenging myself around green hell or what not .

Not sure if serious ??? You would have wanted to pop the game in and have all cars already in your garage ??? LMAO

 

[berettagt88]

It is up to the developer to make the best game possible within the limitations they have. It seems like they used all the PS3's power for pretty graphics and physics while ignoring gameplay.


That same basic formula worked 10 years ago but just isn't enough these days. The competition is doing a better job in most parts (AI, sound, career mode, etc. ) and you can't really call it an overall improvement when alot of the content from the previous game has been taken out and they still have PS2 era cars (most still look horrible).


So we are not allowed to talk about the bad sounds because PD knows there bad? The longer it takes for PD to get decent sounds in the game, the more we will talk about them. They had enough time to do something about it.



What a ridiculous comment. The game is out now! It is incomplete so thats what we will call it. You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test a game. Every post i've seen of you is you making excuses for PD. It's sad...

I feel the same as all above and the people think us complaining is so bad, if this GT was better than GT4 on PS2 then we wouldn't be posting here complaining we would be playing the game instead, just think about that. I and others like me have paid for a incomplete game I had more fun playing GT4 the tracks,career mode was huge and AI were way better I don't understand what happen I guess all time was spent on graphics and physics and everything else was added at the last minute, that's how I feel about it and one question is in my mind, did I waste all these years playing the GT franchise when I should have been playing, should I say it FORZA that's what I been asking myself. I have played all the GT's in the past and own them all even GT Concept on PSN. Now I'm not saying GT6 is the worst GT in the series I'm saying it's missing all the features that made GT great.

 

[Anon37]

I agree with you!
LVracerGT.

I feel quite ripped off! Many of the features That have been consistent among ALL previous games (not to mention correct about them) eg. the non-rolling start are now changed to SUCK! Very few things were improved, and what I viewed to be the "Goal" in the game (getting the Redbull cars) is completely pointless because you CANNOT race with them. WTF???

 

[Fire Yoshi]

Personally, I'm more concerned about all the 'broken' things in this game (or things that need changed, badly) rather than the lack of content.
I'm having lots of fun with this game, just waiting for it to keep on evolving.

 

[MeanElf]

I don't buy the PS3's limitations as an excuse to PD's failure to develop GT5 or GT6 to it's potential. Not when they had access to start developing for the PS3 before it was even made public knowledge, not when companies like Naughty Dog and Rockstar can achieve such quality and mind blowing titles on the PS3.

Are you really serious? 5 years to develop GT5, GT6 got the benefit of having GT5 to work off of for 2 years instead of being re-developed from the ground up and you think because they've only had 2 months to update a title that can thus far barely achieve BETA status that's not justification? I think you need to re-evaluate you're stance on that.

Sorry, I can't help if you don't buy the PS3 limitiation issue, I'm just repeating what PD through Kazunori-san has said, plus my own understanding from a logical viewpoint - plus it does appear to be quite well accepted here on this forum.

The Uncharted series and GTA V are completely different game styles and have an equally different focus to GT. You see people here either praising or decrying the photorealism fetish of PD - it's a car racing game, a driving simulator and car culture in general has focused on the shiny, sleekness throughout. Action games don't need to do that to the same degree, though Dice and ND got a lot closer on the PS3, granted - but like I said, their focus is on a story with a lot of quite small levels. And yes, I know GTA V is meant to be open world, but an island that takes six minutes to drive across is still a pretty small map compared to some of the others out there.

But yeah, that aspect could get discussed until the cows have evolved...

As for the second point - did not not read the news item that mentioned how much of GT6 has been built anew, including the game engine. I will dig up the link shortly if you don't believe me. Frankly though, I'm getting fed up of pointless debates. I understand you want a better game, but it was announced well before launch that this would be a game that would get regular updates to bring everythin they can upto par. If you're not going to accept that or at least wait until a few more months and updates have passed - then why did you get the game so early if it's a completed game you wanted?

It is up to the developer to make the best game possible within the limitations they have. It seems like they used all the PS3's power for pretty graphics and physics while ignoring gameplay.

Don't forget the physics...

...So we are not allowed to talk about the bad sounds because PD knows there bad? The longer it takes for PD to get decent sounds in the game, the more we will talk about them. They had enough time to do something about it.

Well, not until they have had the chance to implement the improvement which they have said is still being worked on. Think how it looks: they say "okay, we are now working on this" and yet people still hammer on about how bad it is without waiting to see if the improvements deliver anything - it just comes across as ignorance.

...What a ridiculous comment. The game is out now! It is incomplete so thats what we will call it. You don't pay 60 bucks to beta test a game. Every post i've seen of you is you making excuses for PD. It's sad...

So it's sad that I like the game and enjoy it? Don't read my posts if such comments offend you so much. Otherwise see my last paragraph to LVracerGT - I bought the game with full knowledge of that situation, didn't you? If it's software updates needing fixing though subsequent patches that you're on about, well - I'd prefer perfect software patches and launches out of the gate...but it dosen't seem to happen that way nowadays, unless you hadn't noticed. I'm sure they're all working on that. In the meantime aceept it...or don't - a simple choice really.

 

[MeanElf]

I don't think it would take up much PS3 processing power to...


...give us the option of turning off SRF for every event, & providing a tick box filter for online time trial leaderboards.

...give us the option to turn individual HUD items on or off, & assign a button to toggle the lot on or off during gameplay.

...be able to turn off the driver names that are forced on in online replays.

...give us the option of what car we start the game with.

...fix the clutch so that it works more like a real life one.

...generally give us more options instead of forcing everyone to play the game just how Kaz likes it.


I could go on all night, but we already have a suggestions forum!

Ah, I see what you meant now.

 

[Imari]

...but an island that takes six minutes to drive across is still a pretty small map compared to some of the others out there.

Like what? Skyrim?

Six minutes across is at least 12 minutes around, which is twice the Nurburgring PLUS all the area inside.

Play GTA V and see if you still think it's small. It's far, far more content in terms of area than all but a handful of games.

 

[MeanElf]

Like what? Skyrim?

Six minutes across is at least 12 minutes around, which is twice the Nurburgring PLUS all the area inside.

Play GTA V and see if you still think it's small. It's far, far more content in terms of area than all but a handful of games.

I haven't actually played GTA V - just going on what others on another forum who have played it said. I don't doubt the amount of content within the map is high, my point though was that an action game has a completely different design ethos to a driving game and cannot really be compared; and even these have suffered 'shrinkage' from previous versions due to console demands.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Don't forget the physics...

I didn't... You even quoted me where I talked about physics...

Well, not until they have had the chance to implement the improvement which they have said is still being worked on. Think how it looks: they say "okay, we are now working on this" and yet people still hammer on about how bad it is without waiting to see if the improvements deliver anything - it just comes across as ignorance.

PD have known about the bad sounds since GT5 (maybe even before that) and they have not done much to improve. It's PD's fault people complain about it because it takes them to long to do something about it. Can you imagine every developer putting bad games on the market and just telling people they will be fixed one day? Expecting a decent product is ignorance?

So it's sad that I like the game and enjoy it? Don't read my posts if such comments offend you so much. Otherwise see my last paragraph to LVracerGT - I bought the game with full knowledge of that situation, didn't you? If it's software updates needing fixing though subsequent patches that you're on about, well - I'd prefer perfect software patches and launches out of the gate...but it dosen't seem to happen that way nowadays, unless you hadn't noticed. I'm sure they're all working on that. In the meantime aceept it...or don't - a simple choice really.

Where did I say thay you enjoying the game is sad? I'm happy for you. Nobody here is stopping you from enjoying the game. Most people who have bought GT6 are not GTP and don't know they paid full price for an unfinished product unless PD clearly states this on the casing. What I find sad is that you keep making excuses for things that are clearly wrong with the game.

 

[WWE907]

I don't think it would take up much PS3 processing power to...


...give us the option of turning off SRF for every event, & providing a tick box filter for online time trial leaderboards.

...give us the option to turn individual HUD items on or off, & assign a button to toggle the lot on or off during gameplay.

...be able to turn off the driver names that are forced on in online replays.

...give us the option of what car we start the game with.

...fix the clutch so that it works more like a real life one.

...generally give us more options instead of forcing everyone to play the game just how Kaz likes it.


I could go on all night, but we already have a suggestions forum!

Exactly! Kaz needs to realize that while technically this IS his vision of a perfect racing game, he needs to consider what his massive fanbase considers to be a perfect racing game as well.

 

[Imari]

I haven't actually played GTA V - just going on what others on another forum who have played it said. I don't doubt the amount of content within the map is high, my point though was that an action game has a completely different design ethos to a driving game and cannot really be compared; and even these have suffered 'shrinkage' from previous versions due to console demands.

Certainly. However, both Naughty Dog/The Last of Us and Rockstar/GTA V are shining examples of what games in their genres should be like. If they're not the best, they're damn close to it and they're excellent examples of how games of their respective genres should be made.

Gran Turismo was once that. GT1 was the new yardstick by which semi-realistic racing games were measured. GT6 kind of still is by reputation, but I see very little in the game that's even arguably best in class. Parts of the graphics are, but the sacrifices they've had to make to other parts of the graphics means that the overall package can't be considered excellent. Physics still have issues and are not up to current standards. Single player is still pushing paradigms that were current a decade ago. Online is lacking basic features.

Their main selling point is content, and lots of it. But even then, the amount of content is not particularly spectacular compared to what has been created for other similar games, or even for other dissimilar games like GTA V. The vast amount of content largely comes from incorporating EVERYTHING that has been created since presumably about the start of the 2000's when GT2 was released, 14 years worth. 14 years to make 1200 cars and 37 odd tracks doesn't actually sound that impressive (although the way they've been going, I still have no idea why they haven't dumped all the old GT4 tracks into GT5/6).


Anyway, the point was that TLoU and GTA V are games that within their genre are rightly respected for pushing the boundaries of what was expected of such games, both technically and otherwise. GT6 is respected for pushing out sheer amounts of content, and becoming essentially a marketing megaforce, but it's no longer driving (ha!) technical or other innovation within it's own genre. It manages to be mostly competent and trade on it's own good name. That's fine, McDonalds seems to do OK by making acceptable food available in a vast quantity of locations, I don't see why GT can't be successful by being an average simulator with a vast range of cars to drive their focus on marketing cars.

Unfortunately, it's not exactly what the game became known for originally, so some of those long term fans that started with GT1 may end up being left in the cold when they don't like what the game has become. But it is what it is. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the goal is not a great racing simulator. It's a marketing tool for automotive companies, and the physics, racing and other aspects of the game are only developed as far as needed to support that.

 

[MeanElf]

I didn't... You even quoted me where I talked about physics...

Oops...

...Can you imagine every developer putting bad games on the market and just telling people they will be fixed one day? Expecting a decent product is ignorance?

Yes, true PD said it might be done for GT6 but this is the first time that they have acknowledged it properly - so why not let them prove themselves either way first, eh?

...Where did I say thay you enjoying the game is sad? I'm happy for you. Nobody here is stopping you from enjoying the game. Most people who have bought GT6 are not GTP and don't know they paid full price for an unfinished product unless PD clearly states this on the casing. What I find sad is that you keep making excuses for things that are clearly wrong with the game.

My fault for badly juxtaposing comments there.

To explain better, you see it as me making excuses, but all I'm doing really is correcting what I think could be misconceptions in any given post - but yeah, there probably is a high misunderstanding quotient here.