Are Metallica up themselves?Music 

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Personally, I think each Metallica member is all up themself, Does anyone agree or disagree
 
I think Lars is (Was? I honestly haven't kept up with the members as of late), everyone else I've never heard anything about or found anything to hold against them.
 
'And Justice For All was the last complete great album by them. After that album Metallica only had a few good songs off the albums following 'And Justice For All. I still remember that concert, one of my favs of all time.
 
I don't think so much anymore....settling the score with Dave Mustaine and putting the past behind them was definitely a step in the right direction.
 
Yeah, except Lars is still whiny. Complained about people downloading their music for free,(guess he wasn't happy with the millions he was already getting in royalties) then getting a $40,000 a month "life coach" for the band...?! Seriously Lars? It's no wonder Jason Newsted left the band. Everything after Master of Puppets was bunk. The production on Justice was god-awful.
 
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getting a $40,000 a month "life coach" for the band...?!
The entire point of the Some Kind of Monster documentary was to show that although the band had been playing together for twenty years, and despite the fact that Hetfield and Ulrich in particular had been best friends for even longer, they still had no idea how everyone else thought. A lot of tension within the band manifested on St. Anger, and there were some realy bizarre decisions going on, like banning guitar solos and writing as they recorded. As difficult as Some Kind of Monster was, without it, they probably wouldn't have been able to clear the air ahead of Death Magnetic, which is easily their best album since ... And Justice for All.

And Newstead left the band because Hetfield wouldn't let him start up a side-project. He was afraid that if band members joined other groups, Metallica would start adopting their sound. Newstead also did some pretty hefty damage to his hands just playing the music. If he didn't leave when he did, he probably would have been forced out before long simply because he couldn't keep up.
 
Yeah, I knew all this stuff. I was just making a flip comment. Besides, you said it yourself..."Hetfield wouldn't let him start up a side project". Sounds like a married couple...the whole scene just made my stomach sour. I followed all the crap when it was going on but it just got to a point where I got fed up with it and walked away. Too much junior high school idiocy in that band.
 
I don't think so much anymore....settling the score with Dave Mustaine and putting the past behind them was definitely a step in the right direction.

It was a good change for direction. It's good they're not angry at each other anymore, personally I reckon Dave Mustaine is more nicer these days, mainly in recent interviews it shows that Dave's changed from his old ways.
 
I've always felt music is an extension of the people who create it's personality. To be honest it's really only Ulrich who is in every one's face, and I get as a fellow drummer how frustrating it is to be at the back of the band wishing the spot light was on you, but the guy's still a berk and that comes through in their music.
 
Besides, you said it yourself..."Hetfield wouldn't let him start up a side project".
I can understand his reasoning, though. He didn't want Newstead going off and joining another band and then having that band's sound contaminate Metallica's future recordings. It was during the Load/ReLoad era, when Metallica was on the receiving end of a lot of criticism for dulling down their sound and going from eight-minute thrash metal epics to four-minute radio-friendly hard rock clones. I personally think a lot of the decisions made in that era weighed heavily on the band as they tried to go back to a time gone by without sounding like they were making a pastiche of their old music. They wanted to be new and old as the same time, and if Newstead had gone off and joined another band and that band's sound started corrupting Metallica's future releases, they may never have been able to go back at all. I think St. Anger is a lot like the Bond film Die Another Day: it was a bad album that we had to have to get the band to wake up to the fact that they'd lost their way, just as Die Another Day was the bad film Bond fans had to endure to get the producers to realise the series had become bloated and was crumbling under its own weight. St. Anger led to Death Magnetic, and Die Another Day let to Casino Royale, two of the best - and certainly in recent times - entries for both Metallica and James Bond. I think that, on a certain level, St. Anger can be appreciated despite its flaws. It's the sum of its parts, a testament to the ribbon of discontent running through the band at the time. There's actually some pretty good stuff on it; the title track and Frantic are respectable efforts, as raw and unpolished as they - and the rest of the album, really - are.
 
Nice rebuttal interludes. I just have a hard time accepting the idea of one band member not allowing another member to start a side project. Reason being is, it's so commonplace now that it's almost a given that it's going to happen. There are so many bands that have members doing side projects that don't "contaminate" the original bands style/sound. First one that comes to mind is Slipknot-Stonesour. Neither sounds like the other for the most part. Another one to pop into my head: Fear Factory's, Dino Cazares. He started Brujeria, Asesino, and Divine Hersey. Sounds and styles are all bit different. Burton created Ascension of the Watchers...what a HUGE difference in style and it never translated into a different FF style. Raymond Herrera was in Kush(if I remember correctly). Then there's Arkaea from Cristian Olde Wolbers and Raymond Herrera. Granted, when Dino and the others were doing all they're respective projects, FF was pretty much disbanded til Burton and Dino made amends and got back together.
For me personally, whenever a band member starts a side project I go and pick up that album asap. It would seem to me that a band would want to expand and evolve their style and sound. Not to mention it shows that the other members of a band evolve with other styles/sounds of music.
I don't know, it still sounds pretty childish for a band member to say "no, you can't do that-I don't want THAT to interfere with THIS" You know what I mean?
I don't know, I'm just rambling.
 
I agree: a band's sideproject can sound unique without corrupting the original band. Them Crooked Vultures sound nothing like Queens of the Stone Age, Foo Fighters or Led Zeppelin despite being made up of Josh Homme, Dave Grohl and John Paul Jones. But until we really know the details of Newstead's plans - and we probably won't - then it's difficult to say what would have happened. But I think that Hetfield's fear was that Newstead's band would sell themselves on their connection of Metallica rather than their actual music and would become something of a Metallica pastiche. If the band Newstead was looking to form (or join) was to be anything like Rockstar: Supernova, then Hetfield made the right call.
 
I do think that songwise - Death Magnetic is one of the best albums they've made for a long time. 👍

But man it sounds terrible. 👎

I struggle to listen to the whole thing in one go there's just far too much clipping & distortion going on. The first time I listened to the album I thought my speakers were broken. :crazy:

You may or may not have heard of the Loudness Wars. Well this album has won it hands down, trust me this is not a good thing. There should never be another album released that is as dynamically poor as this, check out this waveform for Cyanide :scared:

V02.jpg


The first time I saw that I thought it was a joke, but no thats exactly how they wanted it to be. Lars has even went so far as to say that there's nothing wrong with the sound at all & has tried to pin the blame on Rick Rubins shoulders. Now if there's nothing wrong with the sound why would it be the fault of someone else?

I'm not going to go off on a huge rant about this, but I do think it's a bit out of order that this album got released in this condition. So to answer the OPs question from a different, more technical perspective, I think that whichever member of the band listened to that before it got released & said "Yeah that sounds great" has lost the plot. :sick:
 
I agree: a band's sideproject can sound unique without corrupting the original band. Them Crooked Vultures sound nothing like Queens of the Stone Age, Foo Fighters or Led Zeppelin despite being made up of Josh Homme, Dave Grohl and John Paul Jones. But until we really know the details of Newstead's plans - and we probably won't - then it's difficult to say what would have happened. But I think that Hetfield's fear was that Newstead's band would sell themselves on their connection of Metallica rather than their actual music and would become something of a Metallica pastiche. If the band Newstead was looking to form (or join) was to be anything like Rockstar: Supernova, then Hetfield made the right call.

Except QOTSA was basically Homme taking what he did in Kyuss and made it worse by him singing instead of John Garcia singing.
 
The lead singers stupid face when he sings makes me hate them, I don't really have any other evidence than that as to whether they are up themselves.
 
I do think that songwise - Death Magnetic is one of the best albums they've made for a long time. 👍

But man it sounds terrible. 👎

I struggle to listen to the whole thing in one go there's just far too much clipping & distortion going on. The first time I listened to the album I thought my speakers were broken. :crazy:

You may or may not have heard of the Loudness Wars. Well this album has won it hands down, trust me this is not a good thing. There should never be another album released that is as dynamically poor as this, check out this waveform for Cyanide :scared:

V02.jpg


The first time I saw that I thought it was a joke, but no thats exactly how they wanted it to be. Lars has even went so far as to say that there's nothing wrong with the sound at all & has tried to pin the blame on Rick Rubins shoulders. Now if there's nothing wrong with the sound why would it be the fault of someone else?

I'm not going to go off on a huge rant about this, but I do think it's a bit out of order that this album got released in this condition. So to answer the OPs question from a different, more technical perspective, I think that whichever member of the band listened to that before it got released & said "Yeah that sounds great" has lost the plot. :sick:

From wiki:
Music is an art form whose medium is sound. Common elements of music are pitch (which governs melody and harmony), rhythm (and its associated concepts tempo, meter, and articulation), dynamics, and the sonic qualities of timbre and texture.

I hate over compressed audio that forces me to turn down my volume because I had the misfortune of listening to a properly mastered track before hand.

I've never been a Rubin fan but the state of that tracks dynamics is nothing to do with him, it's the mastering stage that has resulted in that compressed, dynamic free mess.
 
it's the mastering stage that has resulted in that compressed, dynamic free mess.

You would think so, but it's been documented that the mastering engineer Ted Jensen - Head Engineer at Sterling Sound, wasn't happy with the way the album was presented to him. Here's part of his response to allegations of him being responsible for the mess

I’m certainly sympathetic to your reaction, I get to slam my head against that brick wall every day. In this case the mixes were already brick walled before they arrived at my place. Suffice it to say I would never be pushed to overdrive things as far as they are here. Believe me I’m not proud to be associated with this one, and we can only hope that some good will come from this in some form of backlash against volume above all else.

Source

Assuming that's genuine, which I have no reason to doubt - there's not a great deal you can do if you are supplied a recording thats got no headroom, apart from reject the job or try & salvage what you can. If it's already clipping then you are facing a difficult task…
 
I stand corrected, assuming of course that that is the complete truth.

The problem with the loudness war is your average lay listeners perception that louder sounds better. You can A/B something to most people where the only difference is one is louder and they will pick it out as sounding better. This makes it near impossible to not make your own work as loud as possible because when it's played side by side with other material mixed/mastered like that it will sound amateurish if there is a perceived drop in volume from not being as heavily compressed.

I just gave Cyanide a listen and it sounds like it's coming through cheap headphones it's that mushed.
 
It's shocking isn't it.

Here's another mastering engineers analysis of the cd against the Guitar Hero versions. This was causing a right old stir when the album first came out.

Your dead right about how the average listener perceives overall loudness to be better. Whats also frustrating is knowing that most of your work will probably only get listened to as an mp3 through some tiny little earphones where there's no chance of hearing everything as you intended anyway. It sort of makes you think whats the point of even trying sometimes.
 
It's shocking isn't it.

Here's another mastering engineers analysis of the cd against the Guitar Hero versions. This was causing a right old stir when the album first came out.

Your dead right about how the average listener perceives overall loudness to be better. Whats also frustrating is knowing that most of your work will probably only get listened to as an mp3 through some tiny little earphones where there's no chance of hearing everything as you intended anyway. It sort of makes you think whats the point of even trying sometimes.

Most people in the world will only ever see Niagara Falls on the TV or a post card, it still beats seeing the Manchester Ship Canal in person though :)

What I would say that record says about Metallica though, is that they were probably only listening to them self at the time of mixing it.
 
Except QOTSA was basically Homme taking what he did in Kyuss and made it worse by him singing instead of John Garcia singing.
I think the opposite. Garcia wasn't a very good vocalist.
 
Most people in the world will only ever see Niagara Falls on the TV or a post card, it still beats seeing the Manchester Ship Canal in person though :)

That is an excellent way to put things my friend :)

What I would say that record says about Metallica though, is that they were probably only listening to them self at the time of mixing it.

Which I guess brings us nicely back on topic, maybe they were a bit too sure of their own abilities to have some healthy comparisons or reference tracks to measure themselves by. Saying that though if I'd sold as many records as them I'd probably be the same :D
 
I think the opposite. Garcia wasn't a very good vocalist.

Well damn, you convinced me!

The problem I have with Homme other then that he is a pompous annoying douche is that every single one of his songs vocally sound the same. Nothing dynamic or new. I like Homme as a guitarist and I like some of his stuff with Desert Sessions but other then that hes meh to me.

Now back on subject..
The Death Magnetic album was "ooooo" at first a little trashier then their past crap that sounded like all the other lame rock bands at the time but after half way through the album you wonder "are they playing the same song over again?" Look at there older stuff (Kill Em All, Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning) all have variety throughout the album without filler.

Kill Em All will forever be one of the best Metal Albums of all time. Lots of a energy, good song writing and performed it just as good. This stuff just makes you want to get up go crazy.




Then they were like "hey lets do the cool thing!" And made crap like this

where they just looked like they were trying to hard. No energy in it, this isn't thrash that is what everyone else is playing. Nothing original very boring recycled riffs with a slightly different sound. Doesn't matter to most people because its catchy and they can hum to it and be like "HEY IM A METAL FAN WEEEEEEEEEEEE" Bottom line they never the same after that and never will be.

Lets just all be happy that Exodus, Slayer, Overkill, Testament amongst others didn't do a Metallica and somewhat Megadeth but they still made some good songs throughout the craptastic radio rock 90's.
 
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