- 4,329
So you think these forums are read or moderated by Turn 10/Microsoft?
Are we playing the best forza ever
- Thread starter hennessey86
- 117 comments
- 6,669 views
- 531
- Colorado
- Just Chyllan
Absolutely it definitely does change it up I never thought of that.
- 14,422
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
They cant moderate a forum they dont own. Although, it wouldnt be far off to assume that some of them might check this out from time to time.
- 4,329
Yeh, likely.
- 608
- saskman1950
Well I bought Horizon yesterday, now I can play it, sometime next month.
Well said! FH is a different game and I am glad it is. Both are spot on for racing/driving fun but in different ways.
FH is leaning more to the arcade side than FM4, especially if using a pad (wheel only way to "feel" the game), but not so much that you lose the virtual driving experience mixed in with the arcade objectives.
- 4,329
Why do you have to.... wait a month to play something you just bought?!
I had a mega Rivals session yesterday. Pushing the very limits of my car on these rough roads for a couple hours, chasing faster times and adjusting my line and braking spots to compensate for all of the bumps and dips, which constantly alter the amount of available grip in very dramatic ways...what a workout!! My hands were cramped and sore and I just cracked my knuckles and kept going.
FM4 can't hold a candle to the thrill of this. I'm now convinced that Horizon is the more challenging game. For anyone who disagrees, frankly, I don't think you're pushing the limit hard enough.
FM4 can't hold a candle to the thrill of this. I'm now convinced that Horizon is the more challenging game. For anyone who disagrees, frankly, I don't think you're pushing the limit hard enough.
- 21
Still think FM4 is the better game but I still do have fun with Horizon
Just to day I had some real good fun on the red rock hill climb with the A class muscle cars again, I really think that is one of the best pieces off road in the game. But that it’s just my silly opinion. I just love that piece of road.
The crash of hailey harper, haha I just made hailey crash here self in the red rock hill climb. This time she over did here self and made a barrel roll in front of the other AI cars and they all crashed right into here. I run here of the track and pushed here into the wall. After that she keept running on the dirt and after that she lost complete control by climbing the wall what made here roll roof, first back on the track a back marker run into here. So she keept rolling over the track so that almost al cars behind here crashed right into here. That was the best crash I had in days from a AI car. I know it`s silly but I made it a sport to run the car in front of the pack in single player of the track and into the wall if I can. Last week I lift one up with the hood of the car and made it fly and then crash real good. And it always fun to make a AI car turn a 180 and start over again.
Just to day I had some real good fun on the red rock hill climb with the A class muscle cars again, I really think that is one of the best pieces off road in the game. But that it’s just my silly opinion. I just love that piece of road.
The crash of hailey harper, haha I just made hailey crash here self in the red rock hill climb. This time she over did here self and made a barrel roll in front of the other AI cars and they all crashed right into here. I run here of the track and pushed here into the wall. After that she keept running on the dirt and after that she lost complete control by climbing the wall what made here roll roof, first back on the track a back marker run into here. So she keept rolling over the track so that almost al cars behind here crashed right into here. That was the best crash I had in days from a AI car. I know it`s silly but I made it a sport to run the car in front of the pack in single player of the track and into the wall if I can. Last week I lift one up with the hood of the car and made it fly and then crash real good. And it always fun to make a AI car turn a 180 and start over again.
^ Posting from a phone? 
No point racing honorably against opponents who can't comprehend the concept, I say. I don't knock the AI around but I'm not gonna throw a race or restart just because I hit them. They have no emotions. 
I like the Red Rock route a lot too, but I wish we had more options for hillclimb/downhill runs. The only other clear example off the top of my head is the gravel road to the bottom of Finley Dam. It's a nice place to run the rally-bred cars.
No point racing honorably against opponents who can't comprehend the concept, I say. I don't knock the AI around but I'm not gonna throw a race or restart just because I hit them. They have no emotions. I like the Red Rock route a lot too, but I wish we had more options for hillclimb/downhill runs. The only other clear example off the top of my head is the gravel road to the bottom of Finley Dam. It's a nice place to run the rally-bred cars.
- 10,735
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
I've not found a way to push the cars that satisfies yet, but I have found a way of mimicking how I drive quickly, pushing the speed where it's wise to do so and reading the surface and its changes; so you let off the throttle and as you enter the overrun, you make the car breath with the surface minus any corrupting throttle inputs until absolutely necessary, so you can try and carry momentum and maintain the balance of the car. Utterly satisfying.
- 608
- saskman1950
Was that comment for me? If so.. it goes like FM4. I bought it in October 2011 and started playing Febrary 2012.
But I'll be playing Horizon this week.
- 1,380
- Wiggs
- Teewiggs
I have games I bought last year that I haven't played yet.
The only game in the past year that has got me away from Forza 4 for a nice period of time was Mass Effect 3. I'll get around to playing my backlogged games eventually. As far as the OP goes, it's really a matter of opinion. I don't like Horizon, and Forza 4 is the best console racer ever released....in my opinion. I won't knock someone for liking a game I don't like....I respect your opinion and I'd hope you respect mine.
Same goes for lots of other games.
- 608
- saskman1950
I have games I bought last year that I haven't played yet.
As far as the OP goes, it's really a matter of opinion. I don't like Horizon, and Forza 4 is the best console racer ever released....in my opinion. I won't knock someone for liking a game I don't like....I respect your opinion and I'd hope you respect mine.
You're just saying that because it's true....I see I'm not the only one who sits on games
- 4,329
I have games I bought last year that I haven't played yet.
As far as the OP goes, it's really a matter of opinion. I don't like Horizon, and Forza 4 is the best console racer ever released....in my opinion. I won't knock someone for liking a game I don't like....I respect your opinion and I'd hope you respect mine.
Ooahh...good memories with the Mass Effect games bro! Especially the second and third one. What a title! Remember losing myself in that universe for hours without so much as a care in the world!
Few games manage to grab me like that.. and FM4's one of them!
- 4,329
Hmm, while I respect your opinion, I believe, for a fact, FM4 is simply not for people who are just looking for fun, action or a quick thrill or two.
It is however, strongly recommended for people who purely love cars for the beastly machines they are. And that's what FM4 nails completely.. the car and driver relationship.. how the car connects with the track.. that distinct mechanical soul underneath every car. And for such folks, the thrill it offers is limitless and unmatched!
FH is a fun game at the end of the day, but it is not really geared to please the hardcore sim fan who prefers realism and accuracy above everything else. Motorsport 4 (as did the previous FM games) demands patience and precision, while Horizon's key focus is casual fun and action.
Both different ideas geared towards different markets, so they now have something for everyone.
I personally think F.Motorsport and Horizon should remain to be two separate and unique entities so as to not muddy up the original formula, while still continuing to build upon and improve a brand new franchise.
Your approvals, thoughts or criticisms are, as always, most welcome!
Well, I'm a hardcore sim fan who prefers realism and accuracy above everything else. That description fits me to a "T". I guess the difference between us is that I only care about the driving itself -- pit/garage/tuning features, damage, tire wear, fuel usage and other secondary "simulator" elements are easily disposable if the core driving experience is solid.
All of my top favorite racing games actually focus on exceptional driving realism to the neglect of other elements: Enthusia Professional Racing (simple tuning, auto-upgrade levels, six cars per grid, no visual customization, no pits, no tire wear, no fuel usage, no rollovers, no damage or realistic collisions), Live for Speed (no upgrades, a small handful of mostly fictional cars and tracks, not really any singleplayer content to speak of, no weather or proper time-of-day, Alpha status for nearly a decade), and now Forza Horizon.
It's clear that Horizon's focus is on fun and action, as you say, but the point of my post you quoted is that patience and precision definitely pay off in this game. If you still have it, I recommend going into Rivals and tracking me down. Not because I reckon I'm a better driver than you, but because I think you should experience the level of driving necessary to get into the top ranks. It's no cakewalk.
I don't have times recorded on everything yet, but I think I've done all of the Monthly Rivals events, and some of those are in the top 200 or top 100. There's a circuit race at Red Rock that was especially hairy and rewarding. My gamertag is Wolfe2x7.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
I have to ask:
Why would someone, who cares about nothing but the quality of the simulation, go with a simcade game like Forza 4 in the first place? There are a few hardcore sims out there, for the PC, that are much more focused on those things than FM4 is. Just saying, you know.
Anyways, I've been doing nothing but aimlessly crusing around for the last couple of days. And I'm enjoying it. I'm just enjoying myself with various upgraded cars - most of them not even upgraded to the max of their respective class. As such, they're just build to my liking. Something that wasn't really a rewarding option in FM4.
- 608
- saskman1950
I raced a lot(with a controller) in GT5, reached level 40.
Then I started with FM4, and truly I love this game, even though I race very little.
I enjoy making designs and decals. I feel this game has more to offer than GT5.
I've never had an issue when getting my butt kicked racing TeeWiggs, no lagging at all.
Then I started with FM4, and truly I love this game, even though I race very little.
I enjoy making designs and decals. I feel this game has more to offer than GT5.
I've never had an issue when getting my butt kicked racing TeeWiggs, no lagging at all.
- 10,735
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
Instead of axe grinding, take a car out there in Horizon and turn off the assists and enjoy what it is - Forza with the added experience of losing grip mid-corner over an undulation and dealing with the consequences at high speed. There's been plenty of occasions where the game has felt every bit as authentic as FM4, but in its own way. The cars in FM4 would have been way to stiff and inert for the roads of Horizon.
- 4,329
Hmm, I can't say I can relate to the positive experience you're having with Horizon, but I am told MP gaming is where it's at. I'm sure you're very good at Horizon. Unfortunately, I don't do MP gaming as I'm not on XBX Live.
I've tried and tried to no end, to enjoy it, but it's not doing it for me. Although I love open road racing games in general (not playing, just watching!), FM4 brings to you the experience and thrill of track racing with elements that really affect the how the car and driver relationship develops. There's no better way to put it, that I can think of at the moment. Horizon's road racing setting just doesn't do it for me; the world feels too colorful and plastic.. the sound environment not as deep and rich as FM4, rather arcadey for my tastes so to speak. When I stopped playing Horizon and went back to F4, I almost felt as if I had discovered a national treasure, as if I was playing it for the very first time!
The Horizon physics were a real deal-breaker for me too, and were in fact, cramping my style a little in FM. Additionally, 30 fps just feels slow and laggy to me no matter what lighting conditions (in my room) or racing perspective I use.
Evils of being a former PC gamer perhaps!!
- 4,329
I'm very curious so as to why you refer to FM4 as a 'simcade'... where exactly is the arcade element here? Could you shed some light on that? Also are you playing with all assists off? What about steering mode and deadzones? For consoles at the moment, FM4 is as hardcore as it gets. And it doesn't compete with PC sims in any way. It is a unique franchise that offers everything from vintage as well as classic/muscle cars to street/road cars to sports and supercars/exotic cars. Not to mention the array of race cars. No other sim offers a variety like this. With engine sounds that are as true to life. For the life of me, I can't understand why they had to dumb down the engine/exhaust sounds in Horizon or change car handling and performance characteristics. They could have very easily included an option for FM4 physics.
Friend, I stopped PC gaming altogether a few years ago as I was getting a bit weary of having to upgrade my rig annually as hardware and games evolve rather rapidly on that platform. I good TV, audio system and console seemed like a practical fix for my gaming needs, and has worked great since! Though, while I was on PC, believe me I enjoyed the daylights out of the Race Pro and GTR games! GOOD memories!
I don't understand when you say "they are build to your liking and this wasn't a rewarding option in FM4". Part upgrades and options have been ported over from FM4 and are exactly the same. They haven't changed or added any engine/suspension parts, body kits or rims etc. All parts/upgrades are exactly the same. FM4 allows you to toy with them, and Horizon doesn't. Again puzzling, since one might want to experiment with at least gear ratios, LSD, tire pressures and drive train swaps etc. Or suspension settings for dirt racing.
Cheers mate, I'm glad you're enjoying Horizon. My disappointment has completely withered away by now, as I know PG was at the helm during development mostly and NOT T10. As it is, I believe it IS a PG game, with insights from T10.
Some experiment...!
- 4,329
I can't quite go along with this I'm afraid.
With all assists off, and sim steering, it still feels a bit arcade. There's a distinct disconnect between the feel of car/driver and the road. The undulating curvy roads can be fun and does require masterful driving, but they can only keep you interested for so long. At least in my case.
On the contrary, cars of FM4 would not have felt stiff at all on Horizon roads. Have you tried experimenting with all the tuning options in FM4? You can make your car as stiff and grippy or as soft and slidey as you like. In addition to that, you can also make them soft/grippy and stiff/slidey. Simply requires the right set up for each track. A welcome addition that would have been in Horizon. An engineer or tuning set up recommendation for each race like in the Dirt and F1 games.
Anyhoo, it is what it is. Devs can't please everyone, and they don't have to.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
I agree that Forza 4 is the most hardcore recent sim on consoles. That doesn't mean much, though. And yes, I race with every assist off, including the HUD. The point isn't even the driving physics, at least to a huge extend.
Have you ever seen flags in Forza? Qualyfying? Proper tyre wear? Fuel consumption? A change in track temperature? Pit stop strategy?
I think you're getting my point: The only thing that can be considered a simulator about Forza 4 are its physics and even those are rivaled, if not bested, on the PC.
As for the variety, rFactor trumps that. With ease.
So, yeah. Simcade. FM4 is probably the very definition of what a simcade game is. A good one, of course, and it certainly works better if you're on a budget. I love FM4 myself and I suppose that most people know as much. In fact, I've been on the pro-Forza side of things since FM2 and have argued that point quite a lot, especially when it came down to the rivalry with GT5. I wouldn't, however, pick FM4 over a good PC sim if all I cared about was accuracy and realism, as there are games that are vastly superior at replicating real life racing realisticly.
I, for one, don't. I love FM4's simcade approach. It's as much of a simulator as it needs to be, for me, without being as hell-bent on simulation to the point of losing its pick-up-and-playability. It's great the way it is. All I'm saying is that someone who's looking for the most accurate, most realistic depiction of racing isn't going to find it on a console in the first place. Therefore, I'm opposed to using that argument against Horizon. It's not realistic enough to you? Well, no problems there.
What I have a problem with is acting like an elitist. And I'm sorry, but that's what you're coming across to me as. A friendly elitist, a well spoken elitist, a well mannered elitist, but an elitist nonetheless. I could understand that if you were on about a game that made realism and accuracy its top priority. FM4 doesn't. That doesn't make it bad or less enjoyable, but one could look down on it the same way you look down on FH if one was to use actual hardcore sims as the yard stick.
Also, as you might have noticed, I don't even mind the fact that you're rambling on about the negative points about FH. That's fine with me. I don't get why you're spending your time in the Horizon sections (I, for example, don't venture into the GT5 section over at GTPlanet ever since I sold it, for example), but that's a personal thing and perfectly okay with me. The attitude is just mind boggling to me.
It's basically like someone who's into Need for Speed: The Run or whatever and telling folks who're playing Ridge Racer that their game sucks as it isn't as accurate and realistic. That's the same thing. On a different level, of course, but I guess it might get my point across well enough.
Your love for FM4 seems to get in your way. I said that the cars aren't build to the top of their class. And that that wasn't a rewarding option in FM4, as its competitive nature called for cars hat were just that - competitive. With FH's laid back athmosphere, it's just more rewarding to pick a car, build it to whatever class you want without worrying about its competitiveness and enjoy it. Part of that comes from being open world, obviously, where you've got better options to cruise around. A track isn't all that good at just cruising around for the sake of it.
That's common knowledge and has been for quite some time. They've got some advice from T10 as well as some assets and that's it.
Also, I'd recommend using the multi quite function or the edit button. Not trying to do some backseat moderating, but I doubt that#s going to sit well with the mods in the longs run.
^ I'm with Luminis. Playing a Forza game has never been a truly hardcore realistic experience, so for Horizon to be less than absolutely true-to-life is hardly surprising nor the least bit disappointing. That said, it's worlds above anything else like it in terms of realism and depth.
- 4,329
Nice points ye both make. A little tied up.
Get back to you two soon! Cheers!
Get back to you two soon! Cheers!
- 54
I see everyones post and wonder what T10 is thinking about FM5. I think most can agree that FH is a good game fun because it has parts from T10's FM4 and PG's Dirt etc. I love all FM series but I'm not a hardcore player and I love FH too and would like to see how T10 could maybe work a story into the FM series. This is IMO but would like to see a team/driver story, going from the start making a name for yourself getting sponsors. Having a racing season where you have a top driver,team,manufacturer. We could see some other AI background stories like Rossi and other rivals. This might help the staleness and lack of continue enthusiasm to play.
- 4,329
I agree that Forza 4 is the most hardcore recent sim on consoles. That doesn't mean much, though. And yes, I race with every assist off, including the HUD. The point isn't even the driving physics, at least to a huge extend.
Have you ever seen flags in Forza? Qualyfying? Proper tyre wear? Fuel consumption? A change in track temperature? Pit stop strategy?
**FM4 doesn't aim to be at the same level as a hardcore PC sim, if that's what you're trying to get at. Ironically, the title of the game includes the word "Motorsport", yet you don't get to see elements such as pit stops/strategy, realistic tire wear or fuel usage. Or any of the other elements attached with motorsport or being a race car driver for that matter. And it deliberately doesn't include all those elements for a very good reason: a game that's all about the love of cars from all eras and depicting them as closely to their real-life counterparts as possible, in terms of looks, sounds and handling/performance attributes. Name one sim on any platform that offers a variety like this WITH realistic and accurate physics? You raise a very good point about track tempratures. I myself would love to see how that along with weather effects govern driving, but we'll have to wait until next-gen. I think Turn 10 pretty much pushed the performance envelope as far as they could with the X360. Just look at the overall graphical compromises PG had to make with Horizon. Aging console, had a great run. But I think it's shelf life is somewhat limited. I think T10 could have easily included all those real-life motorsport elements, but there are constraints.
I think you're getting my point: The only thing that can be considered a simulator about Forza 4 are its physics and even those are rivaled, if not bested, on the PC.
**Exactly, as long as the physics are there, it is very much a sim. To achieve the kind of graphic fidelity, coupled with true to life engine sounds and a ridiculously accurate physics engine to boot, T10 has achieved a milestone, rivaled by very few. And I'm not taking into account the select handful of brilliant driving sims available on the PC. As far as consoles go, T10 has quite remarkably outdone themselves and set a benchmark.
As for the variety, rFactor trumps that. With ease.
So, yeah. Simcade. FM4 is probably the very definition of what a simcade game is. A good one, of course, and it certainly works better if you're on a budget. I love FM4 myself and I suppose that most people know as much. In fact, I've been on the pro-Forza side of things since FM2 and have argued that point quite a lot, especially when it came down to the rivalry with GT5. I wouldn't, however, pick FM4 over a good PC sim if all I cared about was accuracy and realism, as there are games that are vastly superior at replicating real life racing realisticly.
**I would again stand by the notion that FM4 is *not* a simcade, simply because the real-life racing elements and factors you get to see in PC sims are missing. How many PC sims can you name that has race cars AND production cars from practically all eras?
Including a handful of options, handicaps, aids.. whatever you want to call it, to make it more accessible to the casual gamer, does not render it sim + arcade by any means. You do, however, have the option to make it less sim, and I think it was a very clever move on the developers part, ever since FM2. But doesn't make the game any less sim. Physics are the pinnacle of every sim, and FM4 nails it almost completely.
I, for one, don't. I love FM4's simcade approach. It's as much of a simulator as it needs to be, for me, without being as hell-bent on simulation to the point of losing its pick-up-and-playability. It's great the way it is. All I'm saying is that someone who's looking for the most accurate, most realistic depiction of racing isn't going to find it on a console in the first place. Therefore, I'm opposed to using that argument against Horizon. It's not realistic enough to you? Well, no problems there.
**While you do make an interesting point as far as finding the most realistic "racing and motorsport experience cannot be found on a console" is concerned, I'd go as far as to say anyone who has a profound love for racing and cars all the same, or someone who just wants to get a good feel or experience of what it's like to drive these cars, would feel right at home with FM. It is in fact, best in it's class because of it's accessibility. On the other hand, I seriously would not mind experiencing a full-blown motorsport simulator on a console, and I might even give it more attention than Forza. As it is, we'll all have to wait for next-gen, since for me at least, PC gaming is over.
What I have a problem with is acting like an elitist. And I'm sorry, but that's what you're coming across to me as. A friendly elitist, a well spoken elitist, a well mannered elitist, but an elitist nonetheless. I could understand that if you were on about a game that made realism and accuracy its top priority. FM4 doesn't. That doesn't make it bad or less enjoyable, but one could look down on it the same way you look down on FH if one was to use actual hardcore sims as the yard stick.
**Well, I would argue FM4 does make realism and accuracy one of it's top priorities, if not it's ONLY top priority. However, if you're going to go on comparing it to PC sims, then I'm afraid it will not fit the bill for you, and I can understand why you're at ease calling it a simcade. I do defend FM4 rather fiercely at times, and if that earns me the title of an elitist, so be it
I can take criticism l like a gentleman, as long as it's respectful and direct. So I do know where you're coming from, and I appreciate that. On Horizon and Motorsport, using actual hardcore sims as the yard stick, I don't believe that would be very fair, since there's is a bit of a gap between what console games can do in terms of quality and power, compared to PC games. Final note on Horizon: you'd be expecting a lot more from Horizon after seeing the leaps and bounds they made with FM4. But the fact that it is mostly a PG game, is somewhat comforting and easier to digest.
Also, as you might have noticed, I don't even mind the fact that you're rambling on about the negative points about FH. That's fine with me. I don't get why you're spending your time in the Horizon sections (I, for example, don't venture into the GT5 section over at GTPlanet ever since I sold it, for example), but that's a personal thing and perfectly okay with me. The attitude is just mind boggling to me.
**I check the forums when I please, and comment whenever I please! If I have indeed offended someone or left an inappropriate comment, do point out.
It's basically like someone who's into Need for Speed: The Run or whatever and telling folks who're playing Ridge Racer that their game sucks as it isn't as accurate and realistic. That's the same thing. On a different level, of course, but I guess it might get my point across well enough.
Yep, I catch yer drift. I didn't mean to make the Horizon lovers feel down, if that's what you mean. But this is how majority of games are generally; what may come across as a mediocre game, may be considered downright brilliant by others. Games are what they are, as consumers we always have a choice to enjoy the ones we can relate to the most, wouldn't you say?
Your love for FM4 seems to get in your way. I said that the cars aren't build to the top of their class. And that that wasn't a rewarding option in FM4, as its competitive nature called for cars hat were just that - competitive. With FH's laid back athmosphere, it's just more rewarding to pick a car, build it to whatever class you want without worrying about its competitiveness and enjoy it. Part of that comes from being open world, obviously, where you've got better options to cruise around. A track isn't all that good at just cruising around for the sake of it.
Yes agreed. In that case, I suppose I am a bit of a track whore then.. can't get enough of tuning and pushing cars to the edge!
That's common knowledge and has been for quite some time. They've got some advice from T10 as well as some assets and that's it.
Also, I'd recommend using the multi quite function or the edit button. Not trying to do some backseat moderating, but I doubt that#s going to sit well with the mods in the longs run.
DONE!!
Sure, whatever works for you, I say go right ahead and get as much shelf life out of it as possible.
While the general idea seems interesting, don't you think the story element is something that should remain unique to future Horizon games? And FM can continue to build upon where it's at right now. I believe the staleness has been there lately due to recycling the same tracks over and over, no rally driving, no night racing or weather effects and having a lot of the same cars from the previous games. I think part of what the GT and FM games do so well is it's linear approach to gameplay: pick an event, select a track, a car, and start honing your skills. Add to that, all the realism they've worked so hard to attain, and you got yourself a superb driving sim. Not you GT, sorry!!
