Assetto Corsa EVO Early Access Discussion Thread

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CarreraGT
You didn't answer the question. Who built the Dino, if not Ferrari?
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So because Ferrari built it it’s Ferrari? Have you heard of thing called branding before?

It’s quite clear you’re misinformed on the difference between manufacturer and brand.

Sent from my Foxconn 17
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Ryan81
So because Ferrari themselves never adopted 288 whereas Ruf took the name Yellowbird and made it part of Ruf history, somehow that legitimizes the use of it?

Does anyone know for sure whether Kunos used 288 by accident or deliberately? Perhaps they like the unofficial name better rather than it being on oversight on their part?
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Whether they like it better or not, it isn't the correct name.

Guess what fellow car enthusiast led company Polyphony Digital call it?
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Ryan81
OK, got it. It's sacrilege to refer to it as the 288 GTO if you're a self-confessed car enthusiast 👍 But it's OK to do it with the Ruf CTR because Ruf themselves have adopted that moniker, therefore, no worries.
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You can call it what you want, call it the Fiat Type F114 Omologato for all I care. But a self confessed, car obsessed, detail oriented, Italian game developer should be calling it by it's correct, given name.
No mention of 288 there. But they only made the car so what do they know.

As I said, the difference is that Ferrari didn't, and have never, called it the 288 GTO. RUF adopted the Yellowbird name once the CTR earned that nickname during public demonstrations before it was launched. They reference it officially on their own website and in publications relating to it such as the CTR Anniversary.
 
CarreraGT
We're talking about cars, not smartphones. The Dino is a Ferrari, do you disagree?
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Yeah I disagree because it’s a Dino 206 GT or Dino 246 GT or Dino 246 GTS depending on spec/model.

You still don’t understand manufacturer and brand differences, explain the Tata Evoque then if we’re talking cars
 
MagpieRacer
You can call it what you want, call it the Fiat Type F114 Omologato for all I care. But a self confessed, car obsessed, detail oriented, Italian game developer should be calling it by it's correct, given name.
No mention of 288 there. But they only made the car so what do they know.
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Not true. If you read the whole article, it states, and I quote "The official denomination should read GTO, however, many enthusiasts (there's that word) refer to it as the 288 GTO to distinguish it from its GT racing forefather, the 250 GTO of the early 1960s"

That's from Ferrari's official website.
 
CTRL Garage
Yeah I disagree because it’s a Dino 206 GT or Dino 246 GT or Dino 246 GTS depending on spec/model.

You still don’t understand manufacturer and brand differences, explain the Tata Evoque then if we’re talking cars
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Yes I do. The Dino was made by Ferrari. The fact that Ferrari chose not to put a Ferrari badge on it is irrelevant
 
Ryan81
Not true. If you read the whole article, it states, and I quote "The official denomination should read GTO, however, many enthusiasts (there's that word) refer to it as the 288 GTO to distinguish it from its GT racing forefather, the 250 GTO of the early 1960s"

That's from Ferrari's official website.
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Yeah, so that's not Ferrari referring to it as that is it? That's Ferrari mentioning that some will use that designation to differentiate it from the car that is actually called the 250 GTO (which is called that due to it being based on the 250) whereas obviously there is no Ferrari 288 so it's just called the GTO. The main page for the car, with the all Ferrari designations and information don't mention it being a 288 GTO. You can keep going with it, but it's a Ferrari GTO, period.
 
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Probably not Diogenes
Behold, a Suzuki!
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Of course, in this entirely unequivalent example, Dinos were Dinos because Enzo's beloved son Alfredo "Dino" Ferrari inspired the V6 engine which bore his name (though he died before it came to fruition) and Enzo created the marque for cars using that engine so as not to give the impression that there were non-V12 Ferraris.

Later the Dino engine also became a V8, and a turbocharged version of that went to power... the Ferrari GTO. Circles are fun.

Anyway, here's the owner's handbook again, with the actual name on it:

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And the press pack, with some photos of the car with its actual name on it:

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By comparison, the equivalent press card for the 599 GTO:

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I'm not really sure why anyone would take this information so personally. Except the people at Kunos, to whom the original comment was directed.

Every time I learn something that I knew is objectively wrong, I mentally go "Huh. TIL, I guess" and make sure I get it right going forward. It's senseless to be beholden to the wrong information and continue to argue how it's not wrong.
 
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Vincenzo_CVR
Oh I see what you did here...
Imported one of this in Italy it's quite CARA (expensive in Italian) :-P
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It's even more fun, because it has the added layer of not actually being a Mazda either :lol:
Vincenzo_CVR
By the way, Ferrari use GTO as designation for the 1984 model, the 288 it's an unofficial number (2.8 litre plus 8 cylinders) to distinguish this car with the '62 and the '64 250 GTO.
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Yep. Again, something I'd expect someone like Kunos to get right rather than repeating the mistakes of... ooooh, let's say Forza...
 
Famine
It's even more fun, because it has the added layer of not actually being a Mazda either :lol:

Yep. Again, something I'd expect someone like Kunos to get right rather than repeating the mistakes of... ooooh, let's say Forza...
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True, after also the deep collaboration with Ferrari, it's just to drown in an inch of water...
 
Ryan81
Ultimately, who cares whether officially it's known as a Ferrari GTO or unofficially as a Ferrari 288 GTO?
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Many do care, I care. Thank you @Famine for the precision.
Kunos should know better and use the proper name for the car. They might have added in the car text description that many call it the 288 GTO, if they felt it was worth mentioning.
The way they did it brings confusion, which is a shame for a self proclaimed passionate Italian developer. It needs to be corrected in the game.
 
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warp9engage
For the information of everyone in the Ferrari argument, if you check Kunos' Facebook post about the car, and check the edit history, they fixed the name of the car on the same day.
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Not a Facebook user, so I can't do that last part, but it certainly looks like whoever does their FB socials doesn't do their YT socials :lol:

Now let's wait for the Ferrari GTO Evoluzione :D
 
CTRL Garage
no it is 100% relevant because it is a Dino, not a Ferrari, it is a Dino, a separate Marque to that of Ferrari
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Which just happened to have been built in the Ferrari factory, by Ferrari mechanics, from Ferrari parts. It wasn't a separate Marque, Enzo just didn't want to put a Ferrari badge on it because it had a V6 engine.

Badge or not, it's a Ferrari.
 
CarreraGT
Which just happened to have been built in the Ferrari factory, by Ferrari mechanics, from Ferrari parts. It wasn't a separate Marque, Enzo just didn't want to put a Ferrari badge on it because it had a V6 engine.

Badge or not, it's a Ferrari.
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Ok so you still don’t understand the difference between manufacturer and brand.

But by your logic it’s actually a Fiat Dino(since Fiat owned the majority of Ferrari by its introduction) then and still not a Ferrari, maybe do some research.

It didn’t have a V12 so it never had Ferrari, which is where an entirely separate marque called Dino was created. Still not a Ferrari.
 
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CTRL Garage
Ok so you still don’t understand the difference between manufacturer and brand.

But by your logic it’s actually a Fiat Dino(since Fiat owned the majority of Ferrari by its introduction) then and still not a Ferrari, maybe do some research.

It didn’t have a V12 so it never had Ferrari, which is where an entirely separate marque called Dino was created. Still not a Ferrari.
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Nope, you're still wrong. Agreed to disagree
 
CarreraGT
It wasn't a separate Marque
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CarreraGT
Nope, you're still wrong.
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Actually, Dino was - by the definition of a "marque" - a separate marque.

Moreover, Dino used a completely different chassis numbering system from Ferrari; Ferrari used odd numbers for road cars* and evens for race/competition cars sequentially beginning from 001/002, while Dino used exclusively five-digit even numbers sequentially beginning from 00102.

Later, and quite notably, when Ferrari adopted 17-digit VINs, a handful of the remaining holdout Dino-origin cars (the 308) had a Dino "ZDF" VIN even though the car had long since been rebranded to Ferrari - Dino ceased to exist in 1974, Ferrari adopted VINs in 1980*, the 308 itself was retired in 1980 - while all other Ferraris have a ZFF VIN.

The first three characters of a VIN are called the World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI), and comprises the country of origin and manufacturer. With "Z" being the prefix for Italian manufacturers (at least for ZA-ZU) I'll let you guess what the D and F mean in the manufacturer position. No I won't: it's "Dino" and "Ferrari".

As I noted above, the reason for Dino being a separate marque wasn't just the V6/V12 issue, but the fact his kid had the idea for the engine (for racing) and then died aged 24 of muscular dystrophy. Enzo wanted to honour Dino and named an entire marque and the engine that powered it (as he'd inspired it) after him. 60 years later we still have people denying it even existed.

Just to add to the amusement, FIAT bought half the road car concern from Ferrari a year previously, and it was FIAT that originally built the Ferrari-designed two-litre V6 engines - and the FIAT Dino coupe to house 500 of them to homologate the engine for the racing purposes Enzo wanted. Ferrari assembled the later 2.4 (after FIAT began production).


I could at this point show a picture of a Suzuki that's a Toyota underneath but which can be made by either Magyar Suzuki in Hungary or Toyota Motor Manufacturing UK in Burnaston and bear completely different VINs depending on which (TSM for Magyar Suzuki, SB1 fo Toyota UK). It's definitely a Suzuki, but also definitely just a Toyota with a Suzuki badge on it, and could actually be assembled by either brand.

However the point should be clear: who or where a car is from isn't quite as clear cut as all that in a surprisingly large number of cases, and you really need to know more about each individual case before declaring what something is and is not.

*Oddly, Ferrari adopted VINs some time around the serial number 30,000 and continued to use exclusively odd numbers for road cars until 75,000.
 
Famine
Actually, Dino was - by the definition of a "marque" - a separate marque.

Moreover, Dino used a completely different chassis numbering system from Ferrari; Ferrari used odd numbers for road cars* and evens for race/competition cars sequentially beginning from 001/002, while Dino used exclusively five-digit even numbers sequentially beginning from 00102.

Later, and quite notably, when Ferrari adopted 17-digit VINs, a handful of the remaining holdout Dino-origin cars (the 308) had a Dino "ZDF" VIN even though the car had long since been rebranded to Ferrari - Dino ceased to exist in 1974, Ferrari adopted VINs in 1980*, the 308 itself was retired in 1980 - while all other Ferraris have a ZFF VIN.

The first three characters of a VIN are called the World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI), and comprises the country of origin and manufacturer. With "Z" being the prefix for Italian manufacturers (at least for ZA-ZU) I'll let you guess what the D and F mean in the manufacturer position. No I won't: it's "Dino" and "Ferrari".

As I noted above, the reason for Dino being a separate marque wasn't just the V6/V12 issue, but the fact his kid had the idea for the engine (for racing) and then died aged 24 of muscular dystrophy. Enzo wanted to honour Dino and named an entire marque and the engine that powered it (as he'd inspired it) after him. 60 years later we still have people denying it even existed.

Just to add to the amusement, FIAT bought half the road car concern from Ferrari a year previously, and it was FIAT that originally built the Ferrari-designed two-litre V6 engines - and the FIAT Dino coupe to house 500 of them to homologate the engine for the racing purposes Enzo wanted. Ferrari assembled the later 2.4 (after FIAT began production).


I could at this point show a picture of a Suzuki that's a Toyota underneath but which can be made by either Magyar Suzuki in Hungary or Toyota Motor Manufacturing UK in Burnaston and bear completely different VINs depending on which (TSM for Magyar Suzuki, SB1 fo Toyota UK). It's definitely a Suzuki, but also definitely just a Toyota with a Suzuki badge on it, and could actually be assembled by either brand.

However the point should be clear: who or where a car is from isn't quite as clear cut as all that in a surprisingly large number of cases, and you really need to know more about each individual case before declaring what something is and is not.

*Oddly, Ferrari adopted VINs some time around the serial number 30,000 and continued to use exclusively odd numbers for road cars until 75,000.
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I'm talking about the generally accepted truth, not the details of chassis numbers etc. All reputable motoring journalists, enthusiasts etc. refer to the GTO as the 288 GTO. It may not be strictly correct from a legal perspective, and Kunos may have simply called it the "Ferrari GTO" in AC1, but calling the 288 GTO is not incorrect.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm sure it will be a blast to drive irrespective of the name!
 
Wow wee imagine ignoring all the evidence presented to you and still having the balls to call people out for being "wrong". Fact is, the 288 GTO is just a GTO and the Dino is just a Dino. We can argue about who built it all day but it's completely pointless.
 
CarreraGT
I'm talking about the generally accepted truth, not the details of chassis numbers etc.
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"Generally accepted truths" do not overlap with objective truths as often as you may think. There are countless "generally accepted truths" that are utter horseapples. Duck quacks echo, goldfish actually have quite good memories, we use actually a quite a significant proportion of our brains most of the time, and you can't see the Great Wall of China from space.

"Details of chassis numbers etc" are part of the evidence that Dino was a separate marque from Ferrari. Not that it should be needed as the very fact Enzo Ferrari said they weren't Ferraris should be enough, as should the fact that Dino cars were, in-era, badged exclusively with Dino badges and didn't have Ferrari branding anywhere on them.
CarreraGT
All reputable motoring journalists, enthusiasts etc. refer to the GTO as the 288 GTO.
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Not all, some. Some prefer to be, you know, right.

Crucially, it doesn't matter what journalists (who likely coined the numerals) or enthusiasts call it: Ferrari calls it the GTO and always has. I think I've provided more than enough in-era evidence of this.
CarreraGT
It may not be strictly correct from a legal perspective
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I don't really know what a "legal perspective" has to do with this.
CarreraGT
calling the 288 GTO is not incorrect.
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Objectively it is. The numeral part is an unofficial nickname. The car is, and always was, called the Ferrari GTO.
CarreraGT
Anyway, it doesn't matter.
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Then why are we almost 50 posts into discussing it?

As I said some number of posts ago, I'm not really sure why anyone would take this information so personally. Every time I learn something that I knew is objectively wrong, I mentally go "Huh. TIL, I guess" and make sure I get it right going forward.

It's senseless to be beholden to the wrong information and continue to argue how it's not wrong. And yet, here we are.
 
Famine
"Generally accepted truths" do not overlap with objective truths as often as you may think. There are countless "generally accepted truths" that are utter horseapples. Duck quacks echo, goldfish actually have quite good memories, we use actually a quite a significant proportion of our brains most of the time, and you can't see the Great Wall of China from space.

"Details of chassis numbers etc" are part of the evidence that Dino was a separate marque from Ferrari. Not that it should be needed as the very fact Enzo Ferrari said they weren't Ferraris should be enough, as should the fact that Dino cars were, in-era, badged exclusively with Dino badges and didn't have Ferrari branding anywhere on them.

Not all, some. Some prefer to be, you know, right.

Crucially, it doesn't matter what journalists (who likely coined the numerals) or enthusiasts call it: Ferrari calls it the GTO and always has. I think I've provided more than enough in-era evidence of this.

I don't really know what a "legal perspective" has to do with this.

Objectively it is. The numeral part is an unofficial nickname. The car is, and always was, called the Ferrari GTO.

Then why are we almost 50 posts into discussing it?

As I said some number of posts ago, I'm not really sure why anyone would take this information so personally. Every time I learn something that I knew is objectively wrong, I mentally go "Huh. TIL, I guess" and make sure I get it right going forward.

It's senseless to be beholden to the wrong information and continue to argue how it's not wrong. And yet, here we are.
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Probably because you keep responding with unnecessarily long posts! Let it go man, it's Saturday
 
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CarreraGT
Probably because you keep responding with unnecessarily wrong posts!
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Hmm.

Nothing I've said is incorrect, and I brought receipts. However you've brought very little to this discussion thus far apart from your feelings about things, ignoring the evidence provided from all other quarters that show that your feelings are incorrect. Apparently you're not keen on learning new things and prefer to stamp your feet about how the old things you thought you knew were right all along because you really want them to be.

That was an unimpressive response. I'd suggest trying something a little more adult next time. Or, if you have actually zero to add, don't bother at all.
 
I haven't been able to be informed, specifically by reading this thread & some reddit posts on ACE, whether we can make our own championships or career mode, or if ACE is just a big or small number of one make races. If the single player mode is very small then it seems that it's similar to Gran Turismo Sport before the single player campaign was added. But it's not version 1.0 yet so perhaps Kunoz will not make the same early structural mistakes that PD did, & somehow partially fixed.

Edit:
 
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