Audi MINI-Competitor Confirmed

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Your own quote...

That's because demand for luxury SUVs is sharply down due to rising fuel costs.

... which once again comes back to my point about having to take into account the marketplace, and the potential sales within that marketplace.

From the piece you have quoted Audi have scaled back production to the US market because of two reasons, the first is that they can maximise profits from European sales (due to production location) and secondly that the US market for such vehicles has dropped, resulting in a lower potential market for the Q7 in the states.

In other worlds its not quite as cut and dried as you first suggested.


I also have to ask why are you still ignoring this...

Scaff
You also said that Audi bosses in the US were poorly performing, and based that statement on simply market share and sales volume in comparison to the UK (China is a total anomaly - its an emerging market that can not be directly compared to established mature markets in this way) , I provided figures that clearly show that when the entire potential market is taken into account Audi in the US gained (by a small amount 0.5%) while Audi in the UK lost (by a large amount -5%).

and

Scaff
I don't dispute that this years figure could be different (but this year is not over and tehy are not yet finalised), nor do I dispute that the US market is only slightly bigger in sales volume than the UK market.

You however seem insistent in ignoring the fact (as stated by Audi) that the US division grew in its market place (which is true growth) and the UK division lost, and lost big (-5% is the truly disastrous figure here). What is the problem you have with recognising this?


...????



Scaff
 
I did adress it.

The audi lineup was ageing in 2005. The TT was getting replaced. the TT is a major audi seller in the UK. Also the new 3er plus the fact that the A4 is old and soon getting replaced also contributed hence the lower sales. Also because audi figures were so high in the UK relative of its population it can only keep growing so much.

However in the US, given the size of the market, and the power of its economy , 0.5% growth is nothing, and just because it grew a little it is a major disapointment as in america, BMW and MB sell nearly 4 times as many cars seperatley, and in other countries around the world audi sales were increasing dramatically. Audi of america bosses quite frankly are not performing and they dont have any excuses as to why.
 
I think you'll find that the bigger the market the more each % means not the less. 0.5% growth in America means a lot more than 0.5% growth in the UK, Germany, France or anywhere else in Europe.
 
I did adress it.

The audi lineup was ageing in 2005. The TT was getting replaced. the TT is a major audi seller in the UK. Also the new 3er plus the fact that the A4 is old and soon getting replaced also contributed hence the lower sales. Also because audi figures were so high in the UK relative of its population it can only keep growing so much.

However in the US, given the size of the market, and the power of its economy , 0.5% growth is nothing, and just because it grew a little it is a major disapointment as in america, BMW and MB sell nearly 4 times as many cars seperatley, and in other countries around the world audi sales were increasing dramatically. Audi of america bosses quite frankly are not performing and they dont have any excuses as to why.

Performance against market figures (Year on year % Changes - overall market) - Source - Audi financial statements

Audi UK and Audi USA

2002 - UK 4.3% / USA 1.6%
2003 - UK 0.6% / USA -3.1%
2004 - UK -0.5% / USA 2.2%
2005 - UK -5.0% / USA 0.5%


Over the last four years Audi in the USA have grown for three of them, the UK has grown for two of them.

As for Audi in the US not having any excuse, well I do seem to recall you saying this.

Poverty
As for the unintended accelerating fiasco blame that unethical US tv channel for lying and cheating.

A major piece of negative publicity that Audi in the US has struggled to recover from and is doing so, you seem to forget that Audi seriously contemplated withdrawing completely from the US in the early '90s. A situation of this nature has never occurred in the UK and the UK has always been a traditionally strong market for the brand.

As for Audi not being in a position to build sales in the UK, that's utter rubbish, looking at the main segments that they compete in.

smmt1gd7.jpg


smmt2yh1.jpg


As you can see apart from the TT, the other models are in a position to grow sales within the sector they operate in. If BMW managed to do it with the 3-series then what is the excuse that Audi UK are to use with the A4, and claiming an ageing product just will not cut it. These are '05 figures and the 3-series has been hammering the A4 in this way for years.


All of this is however a distraction from the original point you made, which was

poverty
America is probably audi's smallest market. Audi sell hardly any cars over there, and im not surprised as americans dont seem to rate them like the rest of the world. Either that or those head honchos at audi of america are incompetent and need sacking.

Now you have seen and been provided figures that clearly show that America is not Audi's smallest market, not in terms of volume (second after Germany in '05) or in terms of market share (Japan was lower in '05 with 0.3% market share).

Americans may not 'rate' Audi products in your opinion, but you have also yourself stated why, the negative press received has been difficult to get over, but they are growing the market.

In terms of the 'head honchoes' at Audi US, well they have managed to grow the business in relation to the market better than the UK in the last 4 years, so if you hold that opinion about the US then it must hold true in the UK. After all the US division had to do it with the same ageing model range and in a market that by your own statement has a dislike for the product.

Regards

Scaff
 
What you say is true and makes sense for most part. That data however is arranged rather strangely.

The C-class in the executive group? Anyway the market in the UK changes every year, as I recollect the BMW 3er being the best selling sedan in the UK at one point, outselling mondeos, and the TT was outselling everything else in its category rather easily
 
What you say is true and makes sense for most part. That data however is arranged rather strangely.

The C-class in the executive group? Anyway the market in the UK changes every year, as I recollect the BMW 3er being the best selling sedan in the UK at one point, outselling mondeos, and the TT was outselling everything else in its category rather easily

Do you actually know what my source is for that data?

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders
SMMT exists to provide services and support for the whole industry and, since 1902, has provided a focus to reflect its ever changing needs and interests.

Representation to government at home and abroad on key industry issues, national and international events and exhibitions and promotion, reliable, data , information and practical advice are available to any company whose business development relies on the success of the motor industry.

SMMT plays a central role in the working life of the motor industry. Whether the industry is your business or it impacts on your organisation in any way, SMMT can deliver real business benefits to help your company meet the challenges of the future.

They provide standard data and classification of segments to the UK motor industry as a whole, the data is not arranged strangely to anyone who works in the industry at all. It also happens to be the figures for the last full year (2005).

Scaff
 
So how is the c class in the executive grouping whilst the A4 and 3er is in upper medium?

anyway....

Ambitious Audi needs to crack America.

Why don't Americans buy many Audis?

The company, a subsidiary of Germany's Volkswagen, has been fabulously successful in Europe where it threatens the hegemony of Mercedes and BMW. In important emerging markets like China, Audis are lusted after like any other important luxury brand.

But in the U.S. its sales are pitifully small.

"Last year, Audi's volume in (the U.S. and Canada) barely exceeded the volume it sold in the British market, despite the U.S. market being seven times the size of the British market," said Adam Jonas, analyst with investment banker Morgan Stanley in a recent report.

Audi lost about $260 million in North America last year, Jonas said.

According to Walt Madeira, British-based Europe Sales Forecast Manager for CSM Worldwide, Audi's ambitious global sales forecasts of 1 million vehicles by 2008 won't be achieved until 2010, while the 1.4 million global sales target by 2015, will be missed by a year.

Sluggish sales in the U.S. will be an important factor in this scenario, with CSM forecasting U.S. sales of 88,289 in 2006 (market share 0.52 per cent) gradually improving to 109,099 in 2009 (0.63 per cent) before tailing off again to 94,023 (0.53 per cent) in 2012. Meanwhile the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac and Lexus sell at least three times as much, with BMW sales expected to hit 307,378 by 2012, Mercedes 234,531, Lexus 474,984, and Cadillac 298,346. Maybe Audi's new TT coupe can help to turn around the negativity.
 
Audi's Angst: Great Cars, Goofy Governance
By Frank S. Washington Email

Date posted: 06-12-2006

Audi makes some of the best luxury sedans in the world, but its U.S. sales would suggest that these guys produce motorized tin cans.

In the last 15 months, I've test-driven Audi's A6, A4, A3, A6 Avant (wagon), S4, and most recently, the Q7. With each one, my admiration and adoration for all things Audi grows.

However, nowhere near enough consumers share my lofty opinion of Audi. Through May, Audi sold 32,500 passenger cars in the U.S. Meanwhile, BMW sold 88,000 cars, Lexus sold 67,000 and Mercedes-Benz had sales of 71,000.

The Big Three of the U.S. luxury market are truly wondrous manufacturers that create top-notch products. But not one of them produces anything that is two times, much less three times, better than any Audi rolling off an assembly line today. But that's what their respective sales suggest. The gap would be wider if we counted SUVs, because Audi's Q7 just went on sale.

Anyway, I've been pitching this story about Audi's great products and so-so sales for a month but it just wouldn't stick. Then I finally got a grip on the true nature of Audi's U.S. sales problem.

A journalism professor told me years ago that good editing could cover up bad reporting, but good reporting could not cover up bad editing. In Audi's case, great products have not been able to overcome mediocre management.

BMW, Lexus and Mercedes have been adding all-wheel-drive sedans to their lineups. Audi's quattro all-wheel-drive system is in its 26th year. There's not an Audi built today that can't be equipped with it. By now, all-wheel drive should be synonymous with Audi, but it's not.

Anybody who knows anything about the auto industry remembers the scourge that befell Audi after an erroneous TV news magazine report in the late '80s said that one of its models unexpectedly lurched forward. Government tests proved the report false. But for a decade or more, the episode was used to explain away Audi's poor sales in the U.S. Bottom line: It was really just a case of lousy crisis management on the part of Audi.

Still, Audi has spewed out products that match up with just about everything that BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz produce. Audi's U.S. lineup is comprised of the TT coupe and roadster; the A4 sedan, Avant and cabriolet; the S4 sedan, Avant and cabriolet; the RS 4; the A3; the A6 sedan and Avant; the A8 long wheelbase and short wheelbase; and the new Q7 sport-utility. Drivetrain selections multiply the offerings to about 65 variants. They will be joined by the S6 and S8 in the fall, and the R8 early next year.

Audi is rolling out its S-Line, the performance version of its models. But it is also creating a line of RS models that could stand for "Really Serious" performance. For instance, the S4 has a 340-horsepower V8. The RS 4 has a 420-horsepower V8 that can run it up to 60 mph from zero in 4.7 seconds.

Audi offers manual and automatic transmissions. And its DSG (direct-shift gearbox) is as smooth and shifts gears as quickly as any transmission on the street side of a Formula 1 gearbox.

Like engines? Audi's 2.0T FSI turbocharged four-cylinder, the first engine to combine direct fuel injection with turbocharging, made Ward's 10 Best Engines list. It was joined there by Audi's 340-hp, five-valve-per-cylinder, 4.2-liter V8. In recent years, Audi's 2.7T bi-turbo V6, 1.8T four-cylinder and 3.2 FSI V6 engines made the list as well.

The upcoming S8 and S6 will be powered by a direct-fuel-injected V10 that will make 450 hp. The track version of the R8 competed at Le Mans the last five years and was a winner four times. And the new Audi R10 was a winner at Sebring earlier this year and is expected to be a winner this coming weekend at Le Mans. A diesel? Yep, the R10 is powered by a 650-hp V12 diesel engine.

So, Audi's problem in this market is not product, it's not design, it's not manufacturing, and it's definitely not engineering, technology deployment or product development. The only thing left to blame is sales and marketing.

In europe audi is best known for quattro. According to this article it isnt the case in america. The audi of america bosses marketing is utter rubbish to not being able to put this across and taking advantage of that fact. bmw drills driving pleasure into people head. MB luxury. Audi should be telling everyone about its quattro, and Progress through technology aka Vorsprung Durch Technik.
 
In europe audi is best known for quattro. According to this article it isnt the case in america. The audi of america bosses marketing is utter rubbish to not being able to put this across and taking advantage of that fact. bmw drills driving pleasure into people head. MB luxury. Audi should be telling everyone about its quattro, and Progress through technology aka Vorsprung Durch Technik.
The problem is, though, that to do that now would be viewed as Johnny-come-lately, because Subaru has been pushing the fact that all of their cars have AWD for over a decade. Audi can't do that, because most of thier cars don't come standard with quattro anyways like Subaru's do. It's really hard to push a feature as amazing when it doesn't come standard, so Adui has just been able to push the Gernab Engineering stuff.
 
Exactly audi of america should have been pushing its quattro from day one as the ultimate 4wd system. Lets hope they are on the ball with their diesel technology to make ammends.
 
Exactly audi of america should have been pushing its quattro from day one as the ultimate 4wd system. Lets hope they are on the ball with their diesel technology to make ammends.
I agree with you that pushing it from the beginning would have helped, you have to realise that as it wasn't standard on almost any of Audi's cars it still wouldn't have been synonymous with Audi like it is with Subaru today.
You also have to cut Audi some slack, as (completely ignoring the Unintended Acceleration fiasco) both Audi and VAG as a whole were on the cusp of huge financial problems following the exchange rate crisis in the early 90's and Volkswagen's falling out in America around '93. The early 90's was not a good time for VAG or any company related to it (see Porsche from 1989-1994), so I think they should be forgiven. They had bigger problems to worry about.
 
Excuse me while I rant for a moment:

Audi has been on a sales roller coaster all year this year here in the US, so when a few things are down or up, it usually doesn't last for long. Comparing October 2005 to October 2006, Audi sales were down a little less than 3.5% (according to LLN.com). The month before things didn't go well either, but Audi has been on-track to sell a record number of vehicles in the US, about 100,000 units, by 2007. On top of that, they have had record sales worldwide...

Added to that, nearly every new Audi has gotten more than its fair share of positive press here in the US. The Audi A3 managed to make it on Car and Driver's 10-best, the A4 in any version has been a perennial favorite at most American magazines, and the A6 has received its fair share of kudos as well.

...But then you look at something like the Q7, which should be a success, and it isn't. Why? Well for one thing it really isn't any better than it's VW cousin, and you really can't ignore the fact that they are showing up to the game about eight years too late. The Cadillac Escalade has far more credibility in this segment, the Mercedes GL is undoubtedly a better truck for doing it all, and the Ranger Rover is unquestionably the king of the luxury truck segment. Audi spent plenty of money attempting to push the Q7 on all of us, but it didn't matter. We don't care, thats what it comes down to. We are getting out of SUVs, and the few of us who still want to buy them are more apt to buying some that we know are going to hold up.

...Then you get the dumbest thing Audi could ever do; Raise prices to compete better with Mercedes and BMW. Why? Profitability, and God-knows what else. But in all seriousness, that is part of what had made an Audi so attractive to begin with, lower prices and arguably better equipment on better-performing cars (in some cases).

Now if Audi can shake off VW, stop the overlaps in products, and actually build some cars that are more than what we expect, they can't expect a sales increase to follow. As of right now, yelling from both sides gets nothing done, and Audi just needs to sit down and figure it out. They need to be AUDI, not BMW or Mercedes. Build products they know that their customers would want to buy, and maybe a few other people too.

[/rant]
 
So how is the c class in the executive grouping whilst the A4 and 3er is in upper medium?

Segment definitions are set by agreement within the industry and defined as follows, I have highlighted the section covering execs.

smmt3wt2.jpg


The C class is in a higher segment for a number of reasons, mainly based around price points for the relevant models, spec and buyers considerations of alternative models.

If you look at the top and bottom end of the A4 and C-Class (ignoring halo models), we can see the following.

Audi A4 2.0 (and 2.0SE) - £19,900
Mercedes Benz C180 K Class - £21,550

Audi A4 3.2FSI quattro S-Line - £28,460
Mercedes Benz C350 Sport - £35,105

While the base price points are not a huge amount different, the Audi does stay under the £20k mark, a strong psychological mark for buyers, and enough to ensure that most may not directly compare the two (but the would look at an A4 and a 3-series as both start below £20k). The top end of each range (halo models excluded) highlights this price gap even more strongly. The point here is that segment definitions have to exist, but they do not (and can not) just take size into comparison, yes the C-Class is small for an exec, but that does not stop (nor should it) the industry defining it as one.


Regards

Scaff
 
Exactly audi of america should have been pushing its quattro from day one as the ultimate 4wd system. Lets hope they are on the ball with their diesel technology to make ammends.

This doesn't make sense. Audi's been pushing quattro since 1986. Audi, quattro, World Rally...all mentioned together for at least 20 years.

The famous ski ramp ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osfxoc7W20Y

and the remake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUpg8GkJcA
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cf...y/gcf/audi/new-audi-a6-long-wheelbase-version

and on the TT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2zO2bdoblg


I think Audi's problems lie with it's long-time overlap with VW. It's been going on since quattro began. The US is a bargain-hunting economy. If they can get the same thing (or what they perceive to be the same thing) for less, they'll do it without hesitation. As far upmarket as Audi has gone, VW has never been far behind. Especially now that Audi is bringing over new smaller cars, and VW is releasing larger vehicles. They're no longer just meeting in the middle, they're filling in each other's gaps.

Audi's biggest competition is VW. If you want something just like a Audi, you could still get a VW. You don't have that problem with other German manufacturers. If you want a car just like a Mercedes, you get a different Mercedes...or maybe a Lexus.
 
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