Audi sells more cars than BMW and MB combined in UK

[Poverty]

So which is it? Are US sales important for Audi or are they not?

No wait. Let me answer that question.

According to Audi's 2006 Interim report, the USA is Audi's third largest market (Q1-2 40,455 units), right after Great Britain (Q1-2, 46,550).

For 2005, the USA was Audi's 2nd largest market and it's largest export market.


M

Thats wrong America is audi's fourth biggest market. Audi sold 80 something thousand cars last year in china.

In 2006 BMW sold 1,185,088 and increse of %5.2 over 2005's figures. In the first 10 months of 2006 audi sold 757,700 cars, on that average, that takes Audi to just over 900,000 cars sold for the entire year. That leaves then nearly 300,000 cars short of BMW's annual sales. The biggest reason imo that Audi has had better figures over the last month or two than BMW and Mercedes is the new Audi TT, the R8 will only make up a fraction of total Audi sales over the year. The new TT though is a mass distribution product. BMW and Mercedes haven't launched anything new in the fashionable sportscar market recently.

And the only reason why audi are shy 300k sales is because americans for some reason dont like audi's. Their country is the odd one out compared to sales figures for audi from the rest of the world.

 

[1X83Z]

Thats only for america. Your experience with audi sales figures and depreciation means next to nothing on a world wide scale.

Um.

America is the world's largest auto market.

So your conclusion that they have zero presence on where the most money is made is wrong.

Um.

The higher end of every segment is where the most profit is located.

What are you?

By the way, I'd buy an A8 over a 7-series in an instant, and depending on pricing I'd probably get an A8 over an S-class as well. I'm just stating Audi's issues here in the States - they're well-documented though; Audi is still getting its ass kicked in the luxury sedan segment despite that the fact that the A8 has been here for a decade as of this year.

EDIT: by the way, speaking of depreciation, here's a stat: the average price for an '04 Phaeton is well under $40k, several can be found hovering around $30k in great shape with good mileage, and it's not impossible to find one for around $25k - the same price as a Passat 2.0T.

 

[Dave A]

Thats wrong America is audi's fourth biggest market. Audi sold 80 something thousand cars last year in china.



And the only reason why audi are shy 300k sales is because americans for some reason dont like audi's. Their country is the odd one out compared to sales figures for audi from the rest of the world.

Proof please, PLEASE. You shouldn't make these statments untill you can provide proof to back them up. It doesn't matter if your right, so far everyones providing sources but you and no one is going to take your word for it when there are sources currently saying otherwise. Because Audi actually says that the USA remains their largest export market, China is an export market. The UK is the second biggest export market, just behind the USA.
http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/about_audi_ag/news/Record_Audi_sales.html
As for America being the odd country out, no they are not.

 

[1X83Z]

Proof please, PLEASE. You shouldn't make these statments untill you can provide proof to back them up.

Asking Poverty for proof is like asking Saab for a good product. It's simply never going to happen. That's why these arguments with him are so hilarous - you'll completely prove a point to him beyond any reasonable doubt and then he'll completely tear it to shreds with made-up statistics, sure that he's right. This is the fourth or fifth Poverty argument I've seen in which this has occurred, all of which have been about Audi. It's truly incredible.

 

[///M-Spec]

Thats wrong America is audi's fourth biggest market. Audi sold 80 something thousand cars last year in china.

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the links? IT IS INFORMATION DIRECT FROM AUDI. ARE YOU TELLING ME AUDI'S REPORT IS WRONG?!


M

 

[Poverty]

America are the odd one out. In every other major market audi sales figures are on par or better than that of BMW and mercedes. This is not the case when it comes to america. America is the odd country out that audi has not been able to crack.

And going by the figures M5 power posted, and the way he worded it I was right in that I said china is audi's second biggest market after germany.

All in all going by people to car sales ratios of america, compared to the UK its shows that america is the odd country out.

China doesnt count due to the vast class differences. Audi sales in china did jump by 23% in january 2007 though.

Im now going out to dinner with my GF, so I will continue this when I get home.

2015.... the year audi reigns supreme

 

[skip0110]

Americans are stupid, that is why we don't buy Audis.

 

[Poverty]

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the links? IT IS INFORMATION DIRECT FROM AUDI. ARE YOU TELLING ME AUDI'S REPORT IS WRONG?!


M

Audi China sales rise 32.7 % in January to record 8,418 units

Audi said January sales in mainland China rose 32.7 pct year-on-year to a record 8,418 units.

In January, 7,881 of the cars sold were made in China and the remainder imported, Audi said in a statement.

The automaker sold 75,150 vehicles worldwide in January, up 8 pct.

Source


Audi


Audi ... Total 2006: 905,100 (+9.2%)



Details:

Germany: 257.792 (+4.3%) ... Market share: 7.6%

Europe (excl. Germany): 400.650 (+7.7%)

Spain: 54,557 (+10.3%)
France: 45,525 (+9.7%)
Italy: 59,002 (+6.2%)
UK: 86,003 (+5.7%)
Eastern Europe: 27,100 (+31.7%)

USA: 90,116 (+8.5%)

China (excl. Hongkong): 80,808 (+39.0%)


By models:

A6 allroad quattro: 9,800 (+31.9%)
TT: 19,500 (+19.9%)
A4 cabrio: 28,000 (+18.8%)
A3: 235,500 (+9.5%)
A6: 224,750 (+9.1%)
A8: 22,600 (+5.5%)
Q7: 52,750 (n/a in 2005)

Source: Audi Press

China sales exclude hong kong.

America figures higher than great britain.

Still stand by what I say going by car sales to people ratio america is the odd market out. Extremly poor sales because americans dont buy audi's for some strange reason.

 

[Dave A]

That's NOT annual sale figures, well it wasn't until you edited your post anywhere else. However you look at it, the USA is a bigger market than China, china is a very up and coming country, and I fully expect it to be a huge, huge market in the next 10 years and may well surpass America and the UK by a good margin. But right now, what you said before was simply wrong.

America are the odd one out. In every other major market audi sales figures are on par or better than that of BMW and mercedes. This is not the case when it comes to america. America is the odd country out that audi has not been able to crack.

Again, PROOF.

And going by the figures M5 power posted, and the way he worded it I was right in that I said china is audi's second biggest market after germany.

No you are not.

All in all going by people to car sales ratios of america, compared to the UK its shows that america is the odd country out.

If you say so.

China doesnt count due to the vast class differences. Audi sales in china did jump by 23% in january 2007 though.

right, so America sells less cars per person than anywhere else, but China because that suits you, right. Nope, the fact remains, Audi sells mor cars per person in the UK and the USA, infact you could probably put a lot of countries down infront of China if you want to use your own way of looking at things rather than what Audi themselves say.

 

[Poverty]

Calm down L4S proof shall come. How about you guys do some leg work and then you can see for yourselfs that toyota make more profit per vehicle than BMW. Toyota makes 11% if my memory serves me correct. BMW makes less than that, but I cant remember the exact figure.

Asking Poverty for proof is like asking Saab for a good product.

If saabs are that poor, then wouldnt it be best if you put GM in place of saab, cause saab is probably one of the better manufacturers of GM.


Im really going now. Im already late pickin up my GF.

 

[Dave A]

No Poverty, you don't prove your points by telling other people to find the proof for you. I can show you figures right now that say BMW outsells Audi in the UK annually. In 2004 BMW sold 102,200 cars in the UK, they sold over 100,000 last year too. The BMW 7 series has been the best selling car in it's class for years. The BMW 3 series is also a record seller. BMW is looking for a total UK sales figure of 105,00 - 110,000 cars this year. More than Audi.

 

[Poverty]

No Poverty, you don't prove your points by telling other people to find the proof for you. I can show you igures right now that say BMW outsells Audi in the UK annually. In 2004 BMW sold 102,200 cars in the UK, they sold over 100,000 last year too. The BMW 7 series has been the best selling car in it's class for years. The BMW 3 seires is also a record seller. BMW is looking for a total UK sales figure of 105,00 - 110,000 cars this year.

Am I contesting that BMW sells more cars in the UK though?

Surely one of the BMW fanboys must have heard about how toyota makes more profit than bmw per vehicle as it was a big deal on the bmw forums

I really am gone now.

 

[///M-Spec]

Audi ... Total 2006: 905,100 (+9.2%)

Details:

Germany: 257.792 (+4.3%) ... Market share: 7.6%

Europe (excl. Germany): 400.650 (+7.7%)

Spain: 54,557 (+10.3%)
France: 45,525 (+9.7%)
Italy: 59,002 (+6.2%)
UK: 86,003 (+5.7%)
Eastern Europe: 27,100 (+31.7%)

USA: 90,116 (+8.5%)

China (excl. Hongkong): 80,808 (+39.0%)

1- Link to source, please
2- Your own data shows the US is larger China and the UK. Unless there is a country missing from your chart, the USA is Audi largest EXPORT COUNTRY. If you want to play marketing games and say all of Europe is a market, it would still make the USA No. 3 largest market, not No 4. as you stated previously.

And if you want to count the EU as a market, why aren't we including Canada and Mexico along with the US and compare the EU to all of North America??


M

 

[1X83Z]

Calm down L4S proof shall come. How about you guys do some leg work and then you can see for yourselfs that toyota make more profit per vehicle than BMW.

So you make an absurd claim and then ask us to prove it?

I have stated this in the past and will state it again:

My car operates underwater.

Now. Prove me wrong!

If saabs are that poor, then wouldnt it be best if you put GM in place of saab, cause saab is probably one of the better manufacturers of GM.

If you think Saab is 'one of the best manufacturers of GM,' no wonder you're so off-base with the crap you usually state.

 

[///M-Spec]

Surely one of the BMW fanboys must have heard about how toyota makes more profit than bmw per vehicle as it was a big deal on the bmw forums

That's rich. You've got room to talk about being a fanboy...

2015.... the year audi reigns supreme

M

 

[Dave A]

No, but I just thought I'd take a leafe out of your book and randomly change the direction of the argument for the hell of it. We were contesting and we have proven that you were wrong about China though.

 

[1X83Z]

http://www.carpages.ca/go/autonews/01252007,porsche_posts_33200_average_profit_per_vehicle.aspx

1. Porsche
2. BMW
3. Toyota
4. Audi
5. DCX
6. Volkswagen

Happy now?

 

[Scaff]

And going by the figures M5 power posted, and the way he worded it I was right in that I said china is audi's second biggest market after germany.

No it does not at all, the following are from the interim 2006 financial report M5P linked too...

..and you posted these yourself...

Audi China sales rise 32.7 % in January to record 8,418 units

Audi said January sales in mainland China rose 32.7 pct year-on-year to a record 8,418 units.

In January, 7,881 of the cars sold were made in China and the remainder imported, Audi said in a statement.

The automaker sold 75,150 vehicles worldwide in January, up 8 pct.

Source


Audi


Audi ... Total 2006: 905,100 (+9.2%)



Details:

Germany: 257.792 (+4.3%) ... Market share: 7.6%
USA: 90,116 (+8.5%)
UK: 86,003 (+5.7%)
China (excl. Hongkong): 80,808 (+39.0%)
Italy: 59,002 (+6.2%)
Spain: 54,557 (+10.3%)
France: 45,525 (+9.7%)
Eastern Europe: 27,100 (+31.7%)

..now I have put them in order, now I admit that China does exclude Hong Kong, but unless you can prove that Audi sold approx 10,000 units in Hong Kong last year that makes no difference at all to the US sales figures.

You also argue that market share in the US is poor, which is true, but it is only directly relevant in that market, in terms of global sales it does not change the fact that depending on either the interim or your whole year figures the US was either Audi's largest or second largest export market.

Audi may also have had a great January in China, but without figures for the rest of the world it means nothing. You did not provide them for the US so I will, 6,399 (source Forbes). So that gives China greater sales than the US for one whole month, and unless that can be maintained it means nothing either.

Now explain exactly how that makes China Audi's second biggest market after Germany? Well it's true as I say for one whole month, big sodding deal, for every year between 2002 and 2006 (inclusive) the US market outsold China (source Audi financial statements).

Once again you have posted opinion as fact, and once again it has not been backed up by anything substantive...

Calm down L4S proof shall come. How about you guys do some leg work and then you can see for yourselfs that toyota make more profit per vehicle than BMW.

...and that's now the second time you have used this as an attempted get out of jail card, and I'm still waiting on your reply to the question asked in that regard in the CTR thread. Or had you forgotten, you claimed that plenty of Hot Hatches on sale in the UK had more than 180bhp and weighed less than 1,200kilos, I asked you to name three (after I had done my own leg-work). I'm still waiting on that, which does strike me as a bit rude on your part...

Awww as usual someone gets upset and then mentions audi in some way or another. There are several cars hot hatches under 1300kg (as that was the figure you originally complained about, even though there are plently still around the 1200kg mark on sale mind you ) with 180hp or above on sale today, hence there still being true hot hatches on sale.

Go look it up yourself, im not doing the leg work

Poverty a very good reason exists as to why people will not accept your statements at face value and ask for proof. Quite simply you have posted too much incorrect, poorly researched, and at times plain incorrect information for many people here to take your word for much.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but its the truth. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf.....


Take this case for example I have just a had a very quick look and finding three hot hatches under 1300kgs with 180bhp+ is a challenge, finding three under 1200kgs! Well you say there are plenty around, so give me three new hot hatches that can be bought in a UK showroom right now, with 180+ bhp and a weight of 1,200kgs or under. And don't repeat you nonsense about us doing the leg work, its a simple lack of descent research that gets you into these situations in the first place.

...that was the 1st of Feb, I would have thought you would have had a chance by now.

Scaff

 

[Famine]

Thats wrong America is audi's fourth biggest market. Audi sold 80 something thousand cars last year in china.

Audi ... Total 2006: 905,100 (+9.2%)
Details:
Germany: 257,792
USA: 90,116
UK: 86,003
China (excl. Hongkong): 80,808

America figures higher than great britain.

I believe what you mean at this point is "Sorry, ///M-Spec, when I told you that you were wrong and stated that America is Audi's 4th biggest market."

This is verging on posting information that you know to be false.

I'd advise you to think very carefully when posting your data in future - this is the third time in the last 2 weeks where you've posted something authoritatively and been either proven wrong or failed to back it up with any evidence.

 

[Milliethemutt]

I always thought the 3 series was the UKs best seller (with private money - not company cars). A very bizzare collection of figures have been rolled out here and my head is now spinning.

Porsche making the most per car seems like a given being that their cheapest cars is abour 5 or 6 times the price of toyotas cheapest.

 

[Scaff]

I always thought the 3 series was the UKs best seller (with private money - not company cars). A very bizzare collection of figures have been rolled out here and my head is now spinning.

In its class the 3-series has been the UKs best private selling car, but certainly not overall.

Porsche making the most per car seems like a given being that their cheapest cars is abour 5 or 6 times the price of toyotas cheapest.

Ah but that logic would only apply if a Boxter cost around the same amount to design and build as a Yaris (I'm ignoring the Aygo here as it was a joint project), but it costs significantly less. Toyota also have much larger economies of scale and as such command better buying power when dealing with suppliers. Given these factors Porsche does well to maintain its position as one of the most profitable car manufacturers.

Regards

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

Wow, this thread got a bit more coverage than I had anticipated. Overall, I don't really find anything that is spectacularly surprising or all that stunning. Don't get me wrong, I'm a VAG guy, but Audis just aren't that special anymore to me. Maybe thats why they can't seem to move them too easily in America? Too much (good) competition?

But, we're digging a bit deep here with all of this. So Audi sold a few more cars than everyone else, big deal. They are good cars, and that is good for them. But people make a good point when they say that Audi isn't pulling down the profits of the others, and that isn't going to make them any better than Mercedes or BMW in the near-future.

...Lets face it, Audi is still building to get there. They will probably never replace Mercedes as the "status" brand, and I highly doubt they will ever replace BMW as the "sporty" brand...

So things are good in Germany (no surprise) and in the UK (cool, but no big deal). We could beat the American dead-horse here, but it really isn't worth it. Audi needs better products here to gain a bigger market share, and I don't see the A5 or the new TT fixing that, especially with the GM Europe/Australia models coming to America, and the new Cadillac_2.0 on sale... And if Lincoln gets down to business (ie MKR, MKS), the picture looks even more grim for Audi in America.

 

[Milliethemutt]

Ah but that logic would only apply if a Boxter cost around the same amount to design and build as a Yaris

Good point Scaff. I guess I was just stunned that Porsche make nearly 22,000 Euro average profit on each car. Even given their price that is outstanding.

About the 3 series thing. I'm sure I heard it a couple of series ago on 5th gear but can't find anything on the SMMT website to back it up. I must be losing brain cells at a frantic rate.

In terms of overall sales (or should that be registrations as we know that's a different matter) Ford clean up but so many of their cars are fleet/company, who does sell the most private cars?

 

[///M-Spec]

One reason why Audi lags behind BMW and Mercedes-Benz in the US is because it spent an entire decade recovering from the Audi 5000 "sudden acceleration" fiasco from the late 80s.

If you were born after 1980, you probably have no recollection of this. Try googleing "Audi 5000" + "60 minutes". Despite the fact that Audi, NHTSA and Transport Canada couldn't find a single flaw in either the transmission or braking system of the 5000, the myth persisted that this car would just fly off on it's own accord.

Here's a level-headed article about it: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm

The 60 minutes story devastated Audi sales. According to this old article I found on audifans.com, Audi sales plummeted from 74,061 in 1985 to just 14,000 cars from 1991 to 1995. Moreover, the incidents created an entire generation of affluent drivers with a 'bad memory' of Audi. So while BMW and Mercedes retained legions of loyal owners and lured new owners into their folds, Audi was left with trying to rebuild their US customer base from a tiny fraction of what it once was.

I believe the reason why not many A8s (compared to 7ers and S-Klasses) sell in the US is because too many people in the A8 target market are old enough to have been quite aware of Audi's reputation being dragged through the mud in the late 80s.


M

 

[Dave A]

The 7 series outsells the A8 globally, it's not just America.

 

[Scaff]

In terms of overall sales (or should that be registrations as we know that's a different matter) Ford clean up but so many of their cars are fleet/company, who does sell the most private cars?

In the UK its very hard to truly tell these days, as so many company car drivers have opted out and get a monthly allowance to fund a car. In terms of most sales figures these can show up as private sales, but they are still company funded, so they throw the figures out.

The following .pdf from the SMMT does help out a bit.

http://www.smmt.co.uk/downloads/motorfacts.pdf

Regards

Scaff

 

[McLaren]

And the only reason why audi are shy 300k sales is because americans for some reason dont like audi's. Their country is the odd one out compared to sales figures for audi from the rest of the world.

Maybe it's because the ol' Audi fiasco still hasn't been forgotten, or maybe it's the fact that Audi A8s are like Maybachs. They depreciate very fast (or at least, they have been in Texas).

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the links? IT IS INFORMATION DIRECT FROM AUDI. ARE YOU TELLING ME AUDI'S REPORT IS WRONG?!


M

Don't bother. Hell, he thinks information from Lamborghini CEOs are wrong about what they're producing.

 

[Milliethemutt]

Good find on that pdf. I spotted that 145,000 Ford Focuses (?) were registered in 2005 but 101,000 were not private. Similarly the Megane had only 20,000 ish private cars registered out of a total of 80,000+. Looks like the mainstream models still owe a lot to company and the fleet buyer.

I wonder how many of Poverty's stats include this aspect and also the pre registering by dealers and manufacturers to push up sales numbers?

 

[1X83Z]

One reason why Audi lags behind BMW and Mercedes-Benz in the US is because it spent an entire decade recovering from the Audi 5000 "sudden acceleration" fiasco from the late 80s.

I disagree with this. Ask any member of Audi's target market (30s) what 'unintended acceleration' is and they'll have no idea what it is. People who still use this excuse are using it as a scapegoat - it plays no part in Audi's lack of sales.

 

[///M-Spec]

I disagree with this. Ask any member of Audi's target market (30s) what 'unintended acceleration' is and they'll have no idea what it is. People who still use this excuse are using it as a scapegoat - it plays no part in Audi's lack of sales.

So the market segment where Audi has some success in the US (30-40) is a generation that is too young to remember or care about the 5000 fiasco. Meanwhile, the flagship A8 has few customers (I don't know why.. it's a nice car)... perhaps precisely because the target market (50+) is old enough to remember it.

I think that supports my theory.


M