Automotive Design - A General Thread

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Reminds me of how bad it was on the F30 3-Series.

And the new 4-Series didn't do much better.

Are you trying to trigger me?

One trend that I've been noticing more and more manufacturers doing lately is pulling the shut line of the hood further and further back from the front of the vehicle. I'm almost certain this is a cost-cutting measure as it simplifies the hood component while (probably) not making the front fascia any more difficult to make than it already was (Front fascia is injected-molded plastic on most cars I'm guessing, as opposed to steel or aluminum hoods). Then there is the QC process and getting tolerances to work might be easier without the hood being at the front edge of the car. I also suspect there is some amount of crash-repair complexity removed by doing this. Whatever the reason, I strongly dislike it and I think it's pretty sad to see "premium" car makers like BMW going down this route. It looks cheap, and it looks bad.

BMW E46 (what a great design this was, as an aside. One of BMW's best efforts, IMO)

Very complex hood assembly that actually incorporates the kidney grills.

BMW E90/92:

Less complex, but at least the shutline is still at the front of the car, right at the top of the kidney grills.

BMW F30:

By this point, it's gone full inboard and it's not pleasant. It looks like a mistake, especially how it intersects the headlight at a weird spot/angle.

Admittedly, the new G30 3 series seems to have reverted back to the E92 method:

So I hope that other manufacturers improve in this area (Looking at you Mazda!)

I think one consequence of the last decade of super-busy automotive design has been a lack of nicely resolved details. I'm not sure whether the whole design budget gets blown on making very expressive designs or management doesn't think that average customers will notice, or some combination of those, but things start to look a little weird if you look too close.

 

[MedigoFlame]

Are you trying to trigger me?

Ah sorry, I had missed that. Just that the Jaguar post reminded me of how bad BMW has been with it, although I feel like I never really noticed with the facelifted F-Type. I knew it was off, but I couldn't remember why I didn't like the facelift. The shutline definitely hurts it.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Ah sorry, I had missed that. Just that the Jaguar post reminded me of how bad BMW has been with it, although I feel like I never really noticed with the facelifted F-Type. I knew it was off, but I couldn't remember why I didn't like the facelift. The shutline definitely hurts it.

I'm mostly kidding. Those BMW pictures did trigger me though.

 

[Joey D]

This video popped up on my feed and I instantly recoiled upon seeing the hood shut line on the new F-Type. I can't believe manufacturers think this type of trash is ok.

Jesus tapdancing Christ, that is bad, especially on a car that starts north o. I think the new F-Type looks great, but now that you've pointed out the panel gap with the hood, I can't unsee it.

=====

I know I'm bias and everything, but Volvo's headlight game is, in my opinion anyway, a masterpiece. It's essentially what sold me on the look of the car and got me seriously thinking about upgrading from my P3 S60. It not only looks great, but it also pulls from Norse mythology too since it's a stylized Mjölnir. They do look better on the XC90, but they work well enough across the entire range (including the Polestar brand).

I'm actually pretty keen on Volvo's overall design as a whole. They managed to make their vehicles look good while keeping a corporate face and not falling into the trap of over-designing. I get that Swedish design is all about simplicity (see Ikea), but the previous generation's corporate face was a bit gumpy and the generation before that made every vehicle looked surprised. I'll be curious to see what it evolves into now that the Chinese are at the helm. The Link & Co vehicles look OK, that front end is a bit strange. The Geely's are OK as well, but some are just bizarre with a prime example being the ICON. The Ermahgerd (or whatever it's called) isn't too bad though.

 

[Crash]

Reminds me of how bad it was on the F30 3-Series.

And the new 4-Series didn't do much better.

There probably are production and repairability cost savings to moving the hood shut line up, but my understanding was a lot of that was driven by European pedestrian collision safety laws. Whole, plastic is softer on your knees than steel.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

There probably are production and repairability cost savings to moving the hood shut line up, but my understanding was a lot of that was driven by European pedestrian collision safety laws. Whole, plastic is softer on your knees than steel.

The pedestrian safety aspect is one I hadn't thought of and it makes a lot of sense. Even still, you can pull off this shut line a lot better than what BMW has managing lately. Cue the Italians:

Functionally, it's quite similar to the BMW but visually it's dramatically better. Mazda has started doing the same thing with the new 3. Pull that shut line in and disconnect it from the front-facing graphics entirely, let it be it's own thing. BMW is clinging to the visual motif that the hood comes down over the headlights and forms the leading edge of the car (especially the F10/F30), but it just doesn't work at all - it's not even plausible. Alfa embraces the big plastic front and designs it well.

 

[Populuxe]

No surprise since they probably come from the same design studio, but the Maserati Ghibli does the same thing with the hood line, and it looks much better than what BMW is doing right now.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Picking this up in the appropriate thread:

I like your point about the Sonata still though. I also assumed it was a European thing so I looked at some American-market cars with sharky noses. The Mustang does what Mercedes did, as well as the Camaro and Challenger. But the Kia Stinger does as well, while the K5 doesn't.

That got me thinking about the RWD vs FWD thing and the size of the hoods. The Mustang, Camaro, Stinger, Mercedes, all have longer and flatter hoods than the FWD cars so perhaps the bumper design is related to that. In order to make the hood pass both rigidity needs and crash tests it can only be a certain size, otherwise the rigidity needed would make it fail crash tests. The FWD cars don't have this size problem so the hood goes all the way to the front because of its naturally more curved and rigid design.

The Mustang and the Stinger are both sold (officially) in Europe so I imagine they must comply. I believe at least some model years of the current Camaro have been officially sold in Europe too. I don't think the Challenger is sold in Europe but it's hood configuration seems to be driven by design compared to something like the Mercedes I photoshopped.

I compared the Kia USA lineup to the Kia Europe/UK lineup. Anything either sold in both markets or Europe only has the shutline inboard, whereas several of the NA-only market vehicles have the shutline at the leading edge of the car.

Kia Sorrento - Both Markets: Hood shutline inboard
Kia Telluride - NA Market Only: Hood shutline outboard
Kia K5 - NA Market Only: Hood shutline outboard
Kia Carnival - NA Market Only : Hood shutline outboard (this is the first time I'm seeing this car and it looks pretty cool for a minivan)

 

[MedigoFlame]

Bringing this thread back as this has been on my mind lately.

Something that's been kind of getting on my nerves is the sloped back sedan/saloons we've been seeing. I presume that manufacturers want them to stand out as a more "sporty" alternative to the ever popular SUVs. But when sedans do the sloped rear without at least making some use out of it, like turning the trunk into a hatch, it doesn't seem necessary.... It's nice that these sedans are still on the market, but I just miss the old three box sedan body style. The rear headroom with the sloped rear just makes people want an SUV instead.

A few recent examples:

2023+ 11th gen Accord:

Kia K5:

At least something like the Volkswagen Arteon made use of the sloped design and it was a hatch, rather than a trunk.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I think one reason they choose not to make a hatch is due to NVH. According to Lucid, their Air has a trunk was because there would be too much interior noise otherwise. Having the trunk be seperate cuts down on a lot of road noise

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I believe the shape is driven by aerodynamics, but the lack of an actual hatch is probably due to several factors -

The very large opening requires additional consideration for structural rigidity (which either makes things heavier or more expensive or both)
NVH
The fact that sedan buyers want trunks

 

[MedigoFlame]

Is there something to call this design? Can't help but hope our future doesn't end up having this same headlight/front fascia design that's been showing up quite often.... Though it feels like it's mostly been Toyota as the worst offender.

Toyota's EV concepts:

 

[GranTurNismo]

Is there something to call this design? Can't help but hope our future doesn't end up having this same headlight/front fascia design that's been showing up quite often.... Though it feels like it's mostly been Toyota as the worst offender.

Toyota's EV concepts:

I think it’s just the popular Japanese design language at the moment. That Prelude, CX-30, and Prius all look like they are of the same make though.

 

[TexRex]

It may be the only part of the Ferrari that I don't think is awful. It also works better on the Ferrari than maybe any other, especially the top.

 

[Neddo]

I once said this in another thread, but I am very glad that more greyed and colourless rear light styles are used these days, other than usual red and white ones. It relaxes designs and they look modern and futuristic at the same time. I am talking about style like these

Pictures are from wheelsage. I am reminded of smoked rear lights of 90s (like on mark III Golf) and they are less kitschy than Altezza y2k styles.

One trend I dislike, especially with Peugeot and Renault, are grills that seem very overdesigned with tiny pieces while rest of design is pretty clean(er). Thats why I prefer 508 prefacelift, but PSE version looks as good in facelift because grill is black. Too bad because I prefer rear light treatment in facelift. 308 and Clio grills look good to me too.