Ayrton Senna: "If only it had happened like this..."

[Clark]

I don't know, I still hold drivers like Jackie Stewart and Lauda in a higher regard than Senna. I'm no Senna hater, I just don't understand this fasination when so amny drivers have been as good or better than him, or whether him dying added to his aura.

 

[F1 fan]

I don't know, I still hold drivers like Jackie Stewart and Lauda in a higher regard than Senna. I'm no Senna hater, I just don't understand this fasination when so amny drivers have been as good or better than him, or whether him dying added to his aura.

I feel that is exactly what happened. I have memories of Senna from my early childhood. He was regarded as being one of the best drivers of the time. Ever since he died, he has went up in a lot of people's estimations.

 

[Liquid]

I agree, the dying prematurely factor has a massive influence on people. It somehow creates an aura of mystique. Of course, Senna was a top driver and one of the most popular but he made errors and mistakes in his time and any suggestion of this most often sees you starting a flamewar.

 

[F1 fan]

Yes. A lot of the flame wars seem to be started by his newfound fans who like to think they were "with him all the way". (They did at least see Senna).

I'm not trying to take anything away from him, but when he was alive, he was regarded as one of the best drivers of his time. Some people claimed he was one of the best drivers of all time. Since he died, some people have started labeling him the greatest driver who ever lived.

 

[Liquid]

Since he died, some people have started labeling him the greatest driver who ever lived.

Which is impossible to accurately and unilaterally agree on. There are only opinions, because not all of the drivers who are/were considered the GOAT raced against each other. 4 names: Caracciola, Nuvolari, Fangio, Clark. That in itself is 3 different decades. You simply can't compare them. And you can't really compare those drivers with Prost, Senna, or Schumacher; another 3 different decades.

The fun is in the debate, but people shouldn't get cross if someone disagrees with them or points out that their driver, *gasp!*, made a mistake.

 

[nitrorocks]

I feel that is exactly what happened. I have memories of Senna from my early childhood. He was regarded as being one of the best drivers of the time. Ever since he died, he has went up in a lot of people's estimations.

That happens to all drivers that have won a race and died. I feel bad for Ratzenberger because everyone forgets about him. Do you guys think he would have been good?

 

[F1 fan]

That happens to all drivers that have won a race and died. I feel bad for Ratzenberger because everyone forgets about him. Do you guys think he would have been good?

Roland was a good driver. He was never going to be world champion, but he performed respectably. I always feel bad for Roland. At least his memory lives on with us racing fans.

 

[nitrorocks]

Yes, but he won at Le Mans in 1994

 

[Liquid]

Yes, but he won at Le Mans in 1994

Close. He had a class win in 1993.

Roland is often forgotten about, unfortunately. As I have pointed out either earlier in this thread or somewhere else on the forum, I give Max Mosely some credit for going to his funeral instead of Senna's because, "It was important that someone went to his [Roland's]". He was a competent racer. He had a reasonably successful spell in Britain, finishing 4th in class in Class B in the BTCC in 1988 amongst F3 and F3000 endeavours. Certainly better than some of the mobile chicanes in motorsport at the time.

 

[Tired Tyres]

He was a better driver than some give him credit for. I saw him win the Formula Ford Festival at Brands Hatch. You don't tend to win that if you are merely competent.

 

[squirlybmx]

To me, who he was as a person is way more important than who he was as a driver. I look up to him because of how religious, focused, and determined he was. He was very emotional but very strong at he same time. His goal was to save Brazil from poverty, not to become a millionaire and buy everything he could get his hands on. And of course, he was a spectacular driver. His first race in Monaco is the perfect example. He had a true talent that few have shown since.

 

[Clark]

If you think Senna was good in his early F1 days just look at footage of Alesi in the Tyrrell in 1990.

 

[bradykhuber]

If any of you weren't aware today would have been Ayrton Senna's 53rd birthday

If he wouldn't have died in his tragic accident 19 years ago where do you think he'd be today?

 

[Grayfox]

Maybe killed on another racetrack as back then safety was not as it is today.

But were he still alive an never got killed.

He would have buried any chances of Michael Schumacher beating his records.

 

[Liquid]

He would have buried any chances of Michael Schumacher beating his records.

Nope.

Not very, I'd say. I suspect Senna would have retired on the spot.

This. As Sid Watkins said to him the day before, he'd won everything and had nothing left to prove. Barrichello's accident hit him hard and you know his reaction after Ratzenberger's crash. The only time he shook his head after an accident, I think, which is something considering how lucky Martin Donnelly was. I would not have been surprised if he retired there and then.

I disagree with comments I've read from time to time saying "Ayrton would have won 3 more titles if he had lived; 1994-1996". I disagree. The Williams in 1994 was nowhere near as good as the quote/unquote "legal" Benetton, and Senna had two DNFs prior to Imola; an accident that wasn't his fault at Aida and an embarrassing spin at Interlagos which you could blame on the poor balance of the car. 1995; we all know Benetton cruised it that year. Easily the best car, coupled with the best engine. Some more wins for Senna, probably. 1996; It came good for Williams. But, if Senna had continued and my assertion is that it would have been two years of lukewarm performances, he would have retired at the end of 1995. Definitely nothing left to prove, and he would be approaching 36-37, a typical time to retire.

One 'What if...' I always find interesting is the story in Eddie Jordan's autobiography about how, before he signed for Williams, Jordan held talks with Senna where he offered him a 50% share in the team, full control over car development, guaranteed preference, the whole nine yards with all the trimmings; a way for him to gradually change from driving to managing. I've never heard this story as being confired as true, but it's a very interesting hypothetical. Barrichello and Senna racing side by side in the superb little Jordan 194? We can only dream.

What makes you think that the same safety measures wouldn't have been introduced after Roland's death?

This too. He's always a forgotten man. Regardless if Senna survived, things would have changed that weekend. Ratzenberger drove on rails into a concrete wall at ~190mph, in an era with significantly less cockpit protection, sidewalls and so on. That crash alone was a massive wake up call.

Max Mosley didn't attend Senna's funeral along with the rest of the paddock. He went to Ratzenberger's because he "felt it was important that somebody went to Roland's", which I find admirable.

There's no way Senna would have been racing beyong 1997. Schumacher still had the early 2000s all to himself.

And reviewing my old post has rekindled my fantasy of Senna and Barrichello in the Jordan-Peugeot. Want.

 

[Grayfox]

Nope.

What makes you say that.

Most wins, Most laps lead.


Didn't Michael Schumacher beat one of them?

 

[Liquid]

If you read my quote, you'll see that I believe that Senna would have retired before (or possibly during) 1997. Well before Schumacher exerted his dominance on the sport, thusly the German would still have had his unrivalled success.

 

[Grayfox]

You never know.

He may have come out from retirement.

 

[Liquid]

By the time of Schumacher's third title, Senna would be 40. By the time of his seventh title, Senna would be 45.

Do you really think he would have been able to keep up?

 

[Grayfox]

You can never know.

But since he had the guts to push those old F1 cars that had little to no downforce he may not have been able to keep up as the newer ones had more downforce and the drivers felt safer going faster, then again he may have gone even faster.

 

[Danny]

By the time of Schumacher's third title, Senna would be 40. By the time of his seventh title, Senna would be 45.

Do you really think he would have been able to keep up?

 

[Liquid]

Dat MP4-10.

 

[bradykhuber]

I personally think if he survived, his head injurys wouldnt allow him to race again and he would probably start a safety campaign

 

[Ganon83]

Looking at the last page in this thread, I think there is always an aura among great drivers when they sadly pass away in their prime.
Not to derail this thread, but it's amazing sometimes just how similar in some respects Senna and Earnhardt were. Both have a current day relative competing who will never win their respective series championships. Both had fellow competitors deaths deeply effect them (Roland to Senna, Neil Bonnett to Earnhardt), and both of their deaths led to a series of safety changes to the point where neither F1 or Sprint Cup has had a single death since.

 

[Earth]

Looking at the last page in this thread, I think there is always an aura among great drivers when they sadly pass away in their prime.
Not to derail this thread, but it's amazing sometimes just how similar in some respects Senna and Earnhardt were. Both have a current day relative competing who will never win their respective series championships. Both had fellow competitors deaths deeply effect them (Roland to Senna, Neil Bonnett to Earnhardt), and both of their deaths led to a series of safety changes to the point where neither F1 or Sprint Cup has had a single death since.

Also both their deaths were related to modifications made to their cars. Senna's steering column broke after it was modified, Earnhardt's seatbelt broke after it was modified in an unapproved fashion.

 

[DK]

Dat MP4-10.

I just checked the Wiki article...it turns out Mansell couldn't fit in the original version, so they had to widen the cockpit.

 

[Earth]

Maybe killed on another racetrack as back then safety was not as it is today.

But were he still alive an never got killed.

He would have buried any chances of Michael Schumacher beating his records.

He probably would have moved to Indycars sooner rather then later

 

[Tom]

I just checked the Wiki article...it turns out Mansell couldn't fit in the original version, so they had to widen the cockpit.

That's correct, Mansell didn't race until Imola. Finished 10th and then a retirement followed by a DNF in Spain and he promptly left.