Barrichello to race for Williams in 2010

  • Thread starter Thread starter mPWRD
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No big surprise, there were many hints to this happening, like Williams adapting their car for right foot braking, a Rubens specialty, and many other rumors.
 
I have to ask: do we really need a thread for each and every driver move? I can understand big ones like Alonso and Ferrari getting a thread, and I made one on Senna going to Campos because he's a Senna, but we already have a thread for this sort of thing. I know it's called predictions for the driver market, but each and every driver move has been included there. There's not really a hell of a lot to discuss about Barrichello going to Williams, other than that we alreay knew it was happening and that Sir Frank, Rubinho and the Hulk will make for a strong, tight lineup.
 
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I have to ask: do we really need a thread for each and every driver move? I can understand big ones like Alonso and Ferrari getting a thread, and I made one on Senna going to Campos because he's a Senna, but we already have a thread for this sort of thing. I know it's called predictions for the driver market, but each and every driver move has been included there. There's not really a hell of a lot to discuss about Barrichello going to Williams, other than that we alreay knew it was happening and that Sir Frank, Rubinho and the Hulk will make for a strong, tight lineup.
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+1 :lol:
 
Oh, come on, it'll only be 26 new threads till the start of the season. No need to worry.
</SARCASM>
 
All I can say is "ugh". I mean, really. There are other, better, drivers who could help Sir Frank marshall Hulkenberg's prodigious talent. Why did they have to pick the perennial winner of the world whingeing championships?

Barrichello has now been beaten to six world championships by drivers driving the same car as him. When is he going to GET THE HINT?
 
GilesGuthrie
All I can say is "ugh". I mean, really. There are other, better, drivers who could help Sir Frank marshall Hulkenberg's prodigious talent. Why did they have to pick the perennial winner of the world whingeing championships?

Barrichello has now been beaten to six world championships by drivers driving the same car as him. When is he going to GET THE HINT?
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But who that Williams would be able to attract?
 
GilesGuthrie
All I can say is "ugh". I mean, really. There are other, better, drivers who could help Sir Frank marshall Hulkenberg's prodigious talent. Why did they have to pick the perennial winner of the world whingeing championships?

Barrichello has now been beaten to six world championships by drivers driving the same car as him. When is he going to GET THE HINT?
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Barrichello is an amazing driver, would you say that Jacky Ickx isn't a great driver just because he never won the F1 Drivers championship, what about drivers like Juan Pablo Montoya, Dan Gurney, Ronnie Peterson, and Carlos Reutemann. Rubens will be perfect to prepare Hulkenberg for a long and prosperous F1 career.
 
Montoya and Ickx proved themselves in other formulae. And whilst Montoya drove cars that could have won championships, Barrichello drove cars that did. Six times.

Peterson was killed before his prime, and I think Reutemann and Gurney were great as journeymen. But they were not "amazing". As Barrichello is not. At all times his opinion of his talent has been greater than the talent itself. And when it goes wrong for him, he always blames someone else. Who can forget his anti-Brawn ranting of earlier this year? Or his consistent "I'm going to beat Michael for sure" chatter at Ferrari. He never seems to elevate himself to another plane. Well, possibly aside from the two wet weather back-to-fronts at Hockenheim and Silverstone.

But you've got a driver who's achieved relatively little in a long career. But he's won some races, made some money and kept his health. It really is time for him to go.

But I'd be interested in someone substantiating the "amazing driver" claim.
 
GilesGuthrie
Montoya and Ickx proved themselves in other formulae. And whilst Montoya drove cars that could have won championships, Barrichello drove cars that did. Six times.

Peterson was killed before his prime, and I think Reutemann and Gurney were great as journeymen. But they were not "amazing". As Barrichello is not. At all times his opinion of his talent has been greater than the talent itself. And when it goes wrong for him, he always blames someone else. Who can forget his anti-Brawn ranting of earlier this year? Or his consistent "I'm going to beat Michael for sure" chatter at Ferrari. He never seems to elevate himself to another plane. Well, possibly aside from the two wet weather back-to-fronts at Hockenheim and Silverstone.

But you've got a driver who's achieved relatively little in a long career. But he's won some races, made some money and kept his health. It really is time for him to go.

But I'd be interested in someone substantiating the "amazing driver" claim.
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I agree. He's good...but far from amazing. Not even in the top 5 drivers on the current grid IMO.

Great, now I'll probably have to deal with people trying to jump on my back for making that comment :lol: Something along the lines of: "you have a clear view of who's good and who's not, I on the other hand think everyone is good...you are simply biased toward your favorite drivers" haha..
 
Well, it would be naive to imagine Barrichello had the same car as Schumacher. The Austrian race should really give you a hint of who was the team's favourite. The times when Schumacher already had the title, allowing the team to concentrate on him, he would have some very solid performances.

His only real chance of winning the championship was this year. It's true he was beaten, but for half of the championship he was faster than Button, and if it wasn't for some mechanical problems (the spring at Hungary, the gearbox at Spa, Turkey, and Singapore) and poor strategy (Barcelona and Nurburgring) the race for the title would be much closer.

Overall he was and still is a very capable driver who happened to be at the wrong place and wrong time throughout his career. He's the ideal type of driver for Williams, especially to have a young talent with him. He's good helping develop the car, setting up for races, and he's the only driver on the grid who has experience racing with no refuelling.
 
Pescara for GT5
Barrichello is an amazing driver, would you say that Jacky Ickx isn't a great driver just because he never won the F1 Drivers championship, what about drivers like Juan Pablo Montoya, Dan Gurney, Ronnie Peterson, and Carlos Reutemann.
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It's not the fact that Rubens never won the championship because he wasn't good enough. It's that he's never spoken out about being the clear second driver, even though he is good enough to be the first driver for any team besides Brawn or Red Bull (for next year). His veteran presence is good for Williams, and there is no doubt he will be the 1st driver next year while mentoring Hulkenberg. But barring a miracle, he won't win the championship.
 
mPWRD
It's not the fact that Rubens never won the championship because he wasn't good enough. It's that he's never spoken out about being the clear second driver, even though he is good enough to be the first driver for any team besides Brawn or Red Bull (for next year). His veteran presence is good for Williams, and there is no doubt he will be the 1st driver next year while mentoring Hulkenberg. But barring a miracle, he won't win the championship.
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Why is he good enough to be the first driver on any team EXCEPT for RBR and Brawn? I'm a bit puzzled by that accusation.
 
timeattack07gt
Why is he good enough to be the first driver on any team EXCEPT for RBR and Brawn? I'm a bit puzzled by that accusation.
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I think he means it in the sense that Brawn will likely have Jenson Button, and as World Champion he would be their lead driver. And Red Bull have invested a lot in Sebastian Vettel, so he'll be their lead driver.
 
If only Rubens was around Ferrari in 1999, I'm pretty sure he would have done a better job than Irvine.....
 
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I think he means it in the sense that Brawn will likely have Jenson Button, and as World Champion he would be their lead driver. And Red Bull have invested a lot in Sebastian Vettel, so he'll be their lead driver.
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Ughh, and what about Ferrari? Who have already confirmed two extremely talented drivers for 2010, one being the only multiple WDC on the grid. It's utter nonsense to think Ruben's could possibly get priority over such a driver...which was my main problem with his argument to begin with.

And What about Mclaren? You think they would push Hamilton aside for Ruben's who's track record only looks of flops in good cars? Making his claim even more blasphemous.

And lasty, Vettel will only be RBR's lead driver because he's earned it, not because Red Bull's invested so much in him. RBR has always promoted equal treatment for their drivers...Vettel has simply proved that he can out perform Webber more often than not.

Edit: And it's also a bit early to say that Ruben's will automatically be number 1 at Williams next year. If Hulk takes it to Barichello early on, (which I wouldn't be surprised), I seriously doubt they are simply going to keep Ruben's on a pedestal if he's getting out performed race after race. Only time will tell in regards to that...but it's a rather blind statement to say such so early on.
 
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If Hulk beats Barrichello, then he's a hell of a driver. Even in that case it would be beneficial for Williams to have him for development and setup. And it's always good for a new driver to learn from an experient driver. But I believe that at least initially Barrichello should beat him. At least consistency-wise.
 
Well, Sam Michael reckons Williams have going their own answer to Lewis Hamilton in the Hulk. Like Hamilton before him, this model of Nico won the GP2 series on debut.
 
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Well, Sam Michael reckons Williams have going their own answer to Lewis Hamilton in the Hulk. Like Hamilton before him, this model of Nico won the GP2 series on debut.
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I would have to agree with him. And that's why the Hulk shouldn't be written off so early, in regards to him taking the backseat to Ruben's next season. Look what Hamilton did in his first season against Alonso, who most regard as being better than Ruben's (at least Ferrari do :lol:). Vettel, the other young German talent has also shown how brilliant the youngsters can be right off the bat.

Edit: I Don't know why I even bother arguing or making a point anyway...most everyone just plays dodge ball around here :lol: But wait, why am I even wasting my breath saying this? Nobody will acknowledge this either lmao
 
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Yeah, but look at Kobyashi compared to Grosjean. One raced for Barwa Addax, one of the best teams in GP2. The other did an unspectacular stint with DAMS, a mid-field team at best. One of these drivers took points in only his second race; the other has spent most of his time looking back at the corner he just went though. On paper, Grosjean should be doing better than Kobayashi, but as Martin Brundle pointed out during the Abu Dhabi telecast, some drivers take the spotlight in their stride, while the others just wither away.
 
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Yeah, but look at Kobyashi compared to Grosjean. One raced for Barwa Addax, one of the best teams in GP2. The other did an unspectacular stint with DAMS, a mid-field team at best. One of these drivers took points in only his second race; the other has spent most of his time looking back at the corner he just went though. On paper, Grosjean should be doing better than Kobayashi, but as Martin Brundle pointed out during the Abu Dhabi telecast, some drivers take the spotlight in their stride, while the others just wither away.
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You missed the point. If you had been following the argument from the beginning, before you jumped in, I simply said that Hulkenburg should not be written off so early, in regards to him being number 2 to Ruben's next season (which mPWRD said). Of course just because he looks like a promising prospect doesn't mean he'll automatically be a superstar like Hamilton or Vettel...but neither should he be written off as being number 2 to Ruben's either, without seeing their comparative paces in testing next year, which was my point.

And I don't think it's entirely fair comparing Kobayashi's performances to Grosjean's either. The R29 is an ABSOLUTE dog compared to the Toyota. If you don't push that car to the absolute limit like Alonso is capable of doing consistently, you're going to be at the back of the pack guaranteed...but if you do push to limit and you're a rookie like Romain without much seat time, you're much more likely to make a mistake. Basically Grosjean was in a lose/lose situation either way.

And I'm sure this will ring true again :rolleyes: "I Don't know why I even bother arguing or making a point anyway...most everyone just plays dodge ball around here :lol: But wait, why am I even wasting my breath saying this? Nobody will acknowledge this either lmao"
 
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timeattack07gt
Edit: And it's also a bit early to say that Ruben's will automatically be number 1 at Williams next year. If Hulk takes it to Barichello early on, (which I wouldn't be surprised), I seriously doubt they are simply going to keep Ruben's on a pedestal if he's getting out performed race after race. Only time will tell in regards to that...but it's a rather blind statement to say such so early on.
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I really doubt that will happen - very few rookies, GP2 champ or not, can come into F1 and start annihilating veterans (Lewis Hamilton was one of the exceptions). Hulk may be good, but Barrichello is the number one driver by default until Hulk proves otherwise.

You're right - Rubens wouldn't be the number 1 on Ferrari and McLaren. The reason I didn't include them is because they are the two teams that would not consider signing Rubens. Maybe I should be a bit clearer next time.
 
For the current discussion, all I will say is: Jan Magnussen. Though, admittedly, Rubens was a fair bit younger then.
 
mPWRD
I really doubt that will happen - very few rookies, GP2 champ or not, can come into F1 and start annihilating veterans (Lewis Hamilton was one of the exceptions). Hulk may be good, but Barrichello is the number one driver by default until Hulk proves otherwise.

Vettel's another recent driver who has came into the sport at a really young age recently and been extremely successful (beating Barichello in the points this year btw), and who is probably every bit as talented as Hamilton. So when you look at extremely succesful and talented rookies who have joined the sport in the past few years there has been; Hamilton in 07, Vettel in 08...so Hulkenburg could very well be the next big thing for 2010, of course if he lives up to the hype. Only time will tell, but I'm sure looking forward to pre-season testing next year :)

You're right - Rubens wouldn't be the number 1 on Ferrari and McLaren. The reason I didn't include them is because they are the two teams that would not consider signing Rubens. Maybe I should be a bit clearer next time.


False. Mclaren even asked Ruben's if he wanted to drive for them recently, but he had already signed his contract with Williams. Even if he had signed with Mclaren I seriously dobht he would have had preferential treatment over Lewis.

And I'm not sure why you mentioned RBR to begin with, as they already had Vettel and Webber onboard for next year for some time now, with absolutely no valid signs of wanting to get rid of either driver.
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...
 
GilesGuthrie
Why did they have to pick the perennial winner of the world whingeing championships?
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Williams have signed Mansell again?

Ardius
If only Rubens was around Ferrari in 1999, I'm pretty sure he would have done a better job than Irvine.....
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I've always felt Irvine did a brilliant job in 1999 - he stayed in touch over the first half of the season and he then scored more points than anyone else after Schumacher's accident, only needing one more to win the championship. Had he had four tyres ready for him at the Nurburgring instead of the three he was given, he could easily have achieved that.

timeattack07gt
And I'm sure this will ring true again :rolleyes: "I Don't know why I even bother arguing or making a point anyway...most everyone just plays dodge ball around here :lol: But wait, why am I even wasting my breath saying this? Nobody will acknowledge this either lmao"
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If you don't want people to question your opinion or hold a different one to you, don't post on a forum 💡
 
Roo
If you don't want people to question your opinion or hold a different one to you, don't post on a forum 💡
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That's not my point. It's the fact that people go around spreading MISINFORMATION yet often never admit any wrong doing. It has nothing to do with opinion, it has to do with facts 👍

I'll admit I'm not always right, but at least I'll admit when I'm wrong. Instead of throwing the ball out there and running away if it comes back wrong.
 
Roo
I've always felt Irvine did a brilliant job in 1999 - he stayed in touch over the first half of the season and he then scored more points than anyone else after Schumacher's accident, only needing one more to win the championship. Had he had four tyres ready for him at the Nurburgring instead of the three he was given, he could easily have achieved that.
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Indeed, Irvine did well all things considered. However, Rubens would have done a better job in my opinion.
 
I don't think there will be the classic first and second driver for Williams, nor do I think they'll be treated differently. I see Williams as having a long-term plan of going back to the top, and as part of their plan they would invest on a young talent such as Hulkenberg, but at the same time have Barrichello in a sort of tutor position. Every young driver would be greatly benefited by racing alonside someone like Barrichello, learning the tricks of the trade. Barrichello would be the one expected to get most of the points for the team, as well as helping develop the car. So I'd see the relationship more like Shummacher - Massa in 06 rather than Alonso - Hamilton in 07.

About Hulkenberg outdriving Barrichello, in my opinion Barrichello is on the second group of most talented drivers (first group being Alonso, Massa, Raikkonen, and Hamilton). So it's entirely possible a new driver would do better, if he has what it takes to be a class 1 driver. I just don't think it woul be reasonable to expect that. For the people who compared Hamilton outpacing Alonso, I'd have to say those were completely different situations, from the change in rules that didn't favour Alonso's driving style to the hard to explain McLaren's political decisions. Those don't seem to be the case for Williams next year.
 
I think really Williams hired Barrichello for his, how shall I put it, "first group" technical skill?
When it comes to car setup, Rubens is probably number 1 for this. Just like when Damon Hill helped Williams in this area, they hope to use such a driver to obtain a better car. They had Wurz for this before but it seems he wasn't enough.

Hulk will learn more about car setup and how to read conditions from Rubens than anything else.

I agree that I don't really see much preferrential treatment going on, however, all teams eventually start backing one or the other if they end up in contention for the championship, or if one performs so spectacularly badly.
 
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