Battle of the Sixes: Garage Comparison between GT and FM

[Saidur_Ali]

I tend to not put much stock in peoples' opinions when they actually prefer driving GT's Red Bull "cars". Just a heads up.

What is wrong with them cars? Really thrilling cars to drive IMO, if it can put a smile on Sebastian Vettel's face driving one and he is a F1 driver, I don't see what is wrong with me enjoying driving it to a similar level.

Source?

For which part/s?

Not to take any credit away from Kunos - they should be commended for what they've accomplished - but the situation is hardly comparable. T10 and PD are both saddled with the expectations that their titles are system sellers: they have to straddle the line between sim-like realism and casual approachability that KS just don't have to concern themselves with. Both Forza and GT are also dealing with an absolutely huge family of cars, so their physics engine has to take that into account.

I'm very excited to see how Assetto Corsa fits in the console scene, much as I was for PCARS. 👍

Assetto Corsa you can drive well even with a keyboard so casual approachability is great. Also feels much more planted than say FM5 or FM6 demo.

Development studio is on the line, which is a lot of pressure for a small development team competing against huge established franchises and being judged against them so they have to concern themselves with similar things.

PD and T10 have a considerable number more development staff than Kunos, physics engine is already very flexible that user mods drive awesome. They are targeting over 100 cars for the console version which is a lot from a small team.

I think it comes down to how good the development team and hardware is on how good and realistic driving physics are, don't think either are trying really to straddle the line between the two. Driving aids sorts the casuals out, but simulating reality is difficult so that is why we get such different handling games. Hopefully next GT game improves enough to become best in genre.

So now we shouldn't take Kaz' word?



You're right of course - lord knows things he's said haven't panned out before - but until further notice, where they change their tune or give us information about GT7, that is the closest thing to a confirmation we have. It's more than acceptable to assume, at this time, that Standards will be in GT7. Whether they're upgraded or not, like the RUF's in GT6 (which, it needs to be said, would still be woefully out-of-date), there is no way PD has converted the entire Standard garage as it exists in GT6 to that level of quality*, nevermind to Premium.

* - Unless they've changed their mind on the idea of outsourcing.

He used the word 'doubts', so you can take his word for it if you want as it could go either way.

 

[ImaRobot]

GT still yet to move to PS4 so exciting what they might do regarding physics and is a big unknown at the moment. Forza though, FM5 and FM6 I don't have any desire to drive the cars in FM5 or get FM6 due to the way the cars handle. If physics are still similar for FM7 and FM8 then it might have a lot of cars but handling being a big put off for some like myself. Also there will be pCARS 2 and Assetto Corsa as competition on same console.

The problem that I've noticed with your experience is that you are using a wheel on all these other games you play, and that you say you like more. Yet when you tried Forza you tried it with a Pad, and used simulation steering at that. The simulation steering is what is causing your problems with steering, especially with your snap-oversteering and tank slapping situations that you mentioned about it. I recommened trying the console version of PCars with a pad, as it'll react the same way. It looks like it stems to the peripherals you use for the other games, and the pad you decided to use on Forza.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The problem that I've noticed with your experience is that you are using a wheel on all these other games you play, and that you say you like more. Yet when you tried Forza you tried it with a Pad, and used simulation steering at that. The simulation steering is what is causing your problems with steering, especially with your snap-oversteering and tank slapping situations that you mentioned about it. I recommened trying the console version of PCars with a pad, as it'll react the same way. It looks like it stems to the peripherals you use for the other games, and the pad you decided to use on Forza.

I have used pad on pCARS and mainly play Forza with normal steering setting. I have seen videos of people playing with wheel on FM6 and seems really hard to push car with simulation steering and correcting cars when you get oversteer. Looks like a broken handling model papered over to be somewhat playable with normal steering aid but even with that, handling is still the same but just can correct oversteer really easy which there is a lot off.

 

[ImaRobot]

I have used pad on pCARS and mainly play Forza with normal steering setting. I have seen videos of people playing with wheel on FM6 and seems really hard to push car with simulation steering and correcting cars when you get oversteer. Looks like a broken handling model papered over to be somewhat playable with normal steering aid but even with that, handling is still the same but just can correct oversteer really easy which there is a lot off.

Then I'm not understanding how you don't see the similarities between sim steering on FM and the pad settings with Pcars. They react very similarly. The problem here is that you've seen videos of people not being able to drive, and you are using that experience(or lack there of) to say that it drives bad with a wheel too. You can't just do that... well you can, but then why would anyone take any of it into consideration?

However, Like I said, you compare these games that you use a wheel for and say how you like them, but use a pad on one game and say that you don't like the way it drives. If this handling model is broken, than so is Pcars as these same instances happen there as well.

Did you you mean that you can't correct oversteer easily, or that you can? Just wondering as you've started your point with not being able to correct that easily. Wondering if that was a typo. Regardless of which, there are very well people who use simulation steering on a pad and are damn fast, as well as there is people who use it on a wheel(for which it was designed) and it works much easier. Your comments seem purposely vague, to be honest.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Then I'm not understanding how you don't see the similarities between sim steering on FM and the pad settings with Pcars. They react very similarly. The problem here is that you've seen videos of people not being able to drive, and you are using that experience(or lack there of) to say that it drives bad with a wheel too. You can't just do that... well you can, but then why would anyone take any of it into consideration?

However, Like I said, you compare these games that you use a wheel for and say how you like them, but use a pad on one game and say that you don't like the way it drives. If this handling model is broken, than so is Pcars as these same instances happen there as well.

Did you you mean that you can't correct oversteer easily, or that you can? Just wondering as you've started your point with not being able to correct that easily. Wondering if that was a typo. Regardless of which, there are very well people who use simulation steering on a pad and are damn fast, as well as there is people who use it on a wheel(for which it was designed) and it works much easier. Your comments seem purposely vague, to be honest.

The steering is completely different between the two games. I used pad on pCARS before, surprised how good it is with one, very direct control. Seeing videos of people experienced with wheel struggling a lot does not fill me with much confidence going by what I already know of handling, cars behaves how I expect it to.

Can correct oversteer easily with Normal, different story with Simulation. I used simulation steering on demo to set my fastest time with one as it allowed more turn in. If I can be reasonably fast on them settings, no doubt others can too. Doesn't seem to work well with wheels from videos I've seen.

 

[ImaRobot]

The steering is completely different between the two games. I used pad on pCARS before, surprised how good it is with one, very direct control. Seeing videos of people experienced with wheel struggling a lot does not fill me with much confidence going by what I already know of handling, cars behaves how I expect it to.

No, they are not. The steering inputs with simulation on FM compared to Pcars has very little difference. You can't just tap the sticks like you can on other games, or Forza's Normal Steering. You'd have to be more delicate, in both games, to be able to achieve a desirable effect.



You're either purposely looking for bad videos, or just ignoring the ones that aren't. Seems like it reacts pretty darn well with a proper wheel. So now that there is a video showing a proper use of the settings, will that change your mind, since all you seem to be basing it off of is videos?

Can correct oversteer easily with Normal, different story with Simulation. I used simulation steering on demo to set my fastest time with one as it allowed more turn in. If I can be reasonably fast on them settings, no doubt others can too. Doesn't seem to work well with wheels from videos I've seen.

Which my point was, that pad users can get it down good, and wheel users have an even easier time then that.

I think you not liking the cars, and the way the cars drive stems down to you using a wheel with literally every other game, compared to you using a pad on Forza.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No, they are not. The steering inputs with simulation on FM compared to Pcars has very little difference. You can't just tap the sticks like you can on other games, or Forza's Normal Steering. You'd have to be more delicate, in both games, to be able to achieve a desirable effect.



You're either purposely looking for bad videos, or just ignoring the ones that aren't. Seems like it reacts pretty darn well with a proper wheel. So now that there is a video showing a proper use of the settings, will that change your mind, since all you seem to be basing it off of is videos?


Which my point was, that pad users can get it down good, and wheel users have an even easier time then that.

I think you not liking the cars, and the way the cars drive stems down to you using a wheel with literally every other game, compared to you using a pad on Forza.

That person crashed a few times on that video, anyway looked at another video of his.



You can see even driving way off the pace and lower degrees of steering, he loses the car and the way the car behaves and corrects seems broken handling to me.

Pad users and wheel users can avoid such situations but if they get in such a situation, they are like a passenger. I would think most would drive with Normal.

I don't like how it controls on a pad but more importantly the way the car reacts due to the physics engine. I have seen quite a lot of YouTube comments about lack of rear end grip too.

 

[ImaRobot]

That person crashed a few times on that video, anyway looked at another video of his.



You can see even driving way off the pace and lower degrees of steering, he loses the car and the way the car behaves and corrects seems broken handling to me.

Yes, everyone crashes a few times. Yet he corrected almost every instance nicely and fluidly.

Look at how he corrects, he over corrected and went opposite lock as the degrees used when correcting got higher and higher. That is why he messed up. Yet, I don't understand how you showing me him mess up one time in his video all of a sudden discredits all of his swell driving throughout almost the whole video. Friendly tip, it doesn't. I can find videos of people having horrible experiences with Pcars steering, does that make it broken? No.

Pad users and wheel users can avoid such situations but if they get in such a situation, they are like a passenger. I would think most would drive with Normal.

Just the same for Pcars.

I don't like how it controls on a pad but more importantly the way the car reacts due to the physics engine. I have seen quite a lot of YouTube comments about lack of rear end grip too.

The problem is becoming more and more apparent here. You are obviously basing most, if not all, of your experience off of comments and videos. Rear end grip comes down to horrible tunes, as my cars have to be forced to get any of those instances going, or boil down to user error.

Its obvious you have a lack of experience with the game and it's physics, and the fact that you base most of your information off everything but direct experience is a bit bothersome.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yes, everyone crashes a few times. Yet he corrected almost every instance nicely and fluidly.

Look at how he corrects, he over corrected and went opposite lock as the degrees used when correcting got higher and higher. That is why he messed up. Yet, I don't understand how you showing me him mess up one time in his video all of a sudden discredits all of his swell driving throughout almost the whole video. Friendly tip, it doesn't. I can find videos of people having horrible experiences with Pcars steering, does that make it broken? No.


Just the same for Pcars.


The problem is becoming more and more apparent here. You are obviously basing most, if not all, of your experience off of comments and videos. Rear end grip comes down to horrible tunes, as my cars have to be forced to get any of those instances going, or boil down to user error.

Its obvious you have a lack of experience with the game and it's physics, and the fact that you base most of your information off everything but direct experience is a bit bothersome.

Might be the norm in Forza to do laps with crashes a few times , what worries me is you purposely looked for a good video and that is what you found. I ain't looking for a bad video, I just don't seem to find a good video and I realise why as videos don't change game physics and controls.

My experience is from FM5 demo, FM5 game and FM6 demo and FM6 videos. So stock cars are horribly setup I guess?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

What is wrong with them cars? Really thrilling cars to drive IMO, if it can put a smile on Sebastian Vettel's face driving one and he is a F1 driver, I don't see what is wrong with me enjoying driving it to a similar level.

I get a smile from Wipeout too. Doesn't make it remotely realistic.

For which part/s?

The numbers, for one.

what worries me is you purposely looked for a good video and that is what you found.

Assumption.

I ain't looking for a bad video.

So you say.

I just don't seem to find a good video and I realise why as videos don't change game physics and controls.

More assumptions.

If you want to discuss physics - though I doubt you actually do, since you're so willing to go off nothing but watching videos - do so in the appropriate thread.

 

[killerjimbag]

Not to go off topic,what is the name of this thread again? Oh yeah,garage comparison.

 

[VXR]

The problem of rear wheel grip is entirely due to the user input. With normal steering on the pad, you have so much control over the attitude of the car. My reviews gallery has covered my feelings on several cars so far, with the structure describing sensible, fast driving and then getting more adventurous with the car. The best I've driven is the E46 M3, a car renowned for its handling and its oversteer abilities. You can drive it for either, depending on how you drive it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I get a smile from Wipeout too. Doesn't make it remotely realistic.

Assumption.

So you say.

More assumptions.

So you say.

Concept respects the rules of physics made with the help of a F1 car designer who is now also helping out in GT Academy. I guess I will not put much stock in peoples' opinions that might think current most successful F1 car designer doesn't know what a realistic car is.

 

[glassjaw]

474 in GT6 and 495 in FM6 accordingly and obviously a ton more incoming by DLC. So in some 4 years T10 has caught up with what PD has been cooking for a decade, how do you feel about the 2 car lists in general, what are some of the gems and what cars are completely rubbish?

Fair point but I'd argue FM's car modeling has been historically worse across the board. The fact that there are still cars kicking around in FM6 with FM1 proportions is laughable (ahem, 22B, NSX)

 

[Tornado]

Concept respects the rules of physics

Well, GT5's downforce-induced-drag-free physics that were in place when the car was first shown off and "tested" by Vettel.

what a realistic car is.

Well, as realistic as the theoretical aerodynamic tour de force can be when they only things used to test its realism is that game above that essentially didn't have downforce-induced-drag for nearly two years after launch, and then that sequel that broke everything again.

 

[ImaRobot]

Might be the norm in Forza to do laps with crashes a few times , what worries me is you purposely looked for a good video and that is what you found. I ain't looking for a bad video, I just don't seem to find a good video and I realise why as videos don't change game physics and controls.

My experience is from FM5 demo, FM5 game and FM6 demo and FM6 videos. So stock cars are horribly setup I guess?

Crashes are normal in any game that has something driven by wheels and a motor. I looked for a video of someone competent with the game, to showcase the fact that what you say is just actually wrong and not based around fact. If you can't seem to find a good video, I just showed you one, so that fixed that. Videos also do nothing to be able to make a decision off something like that. All you are doing is being purposely blind even with evidence proving the contrary of what you claim you know from watching videos.

If your concerned about stock cars, that can easily boil down to user error.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Fair point but I'd argue FM's car modeling has been historically worse across the board. The fact that there are still cars kicking around in FM6 with FM1 proportions is laughable (ahem, 22B, NSX)

The 22B yes, but you're so wrong with the NSX. As you can see below.

And before you mention the F40.

Not to go off topic,what is the name of this thread again? Oh yeah,garage comparison.

Why do those like you always do that? If you don't got nothing relevant to say regarding the thread, don't go posting rubbish like that one you just did above. Yes, it's a comparison thread. So what?

 

[mrPetros]

Seen enough videos to know how it handles and played the demo.

This news article I assume: Link

That is no confirmation.

so,
a) you can judge the handling model on sim settings on a wheel by watching youtube videos,
and
b)you have more authority on gt7 than yamauchi himself

who are you?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Well, GT5's downforce-induced-drag-free physics that were in place when the car was first shown off and "tested" by Vettel.


Well, as realistic as the theoretical aerodynamic tour de force can be when they only things used to test its realism is that game above that essentially didn't have downforce-induced-drag for nearly two years after launch, and then that sequel that broke everything again.

Don't know what you are trying to prove with that as it shows the same speed at default settings?

Anyway what is being talked about is how realistic a car is, not if none of the cars are realistic due to the physics.

Crashes are normal in any game that has something driven by wheels and a motor. I looked for a video of someone competent with the game, to showcase the fact that what you say is just actually wrong and not based around fact. If you can't seem to find a good video, I just showed you one, so that fixed that. Videos also do nothing to be able to make a decision off something like that. All you are doing is being purposely blind even with evidence proving the contrary of what you claim you know from watching videos.

If your concerned about stock cars, that can easily boil down to user error.

So your idea of someone competent to showcase the fact I'm wrong is video of someone who crashes multiple times during a lap. OK...

so,
a) you can judge the handling model on sim settings on a wheel by watching youtube videos,
and
b)you have more authority on gt7 than yamauchi himself

who are you?

a) Yes
b) No

I am myself.

 

[ImaRobot]

So your idea of someone competent to showcase the fact I'm wrong is video of someone who crashes multiple times during a lap. OK...

How can someone have such thick glasses on. Are you bringing up points and just forgetting you even said anything? The video is showing that the problems that you say plague the game with wheels and simulation steering is completely wrong, and whats worse is that you aren't even using any direct experience at all to even gauge that. You are completely ignoring the fact that everything you are saying can't be done on the wheel with the sim steering, he is doing.

Also, if you even knew anything about the game or paid attention to the instances he crashed, it was caused by hydroplaning(literally every.single.instance) not by lack of skill. Your point was that you've seen wheel users with simulation steering and they cant control oversteer, so it is broken and that you're basically a passanger when that happens. He controls literally every single oversteer situation flawlessly, in the rain no less, and this immediately disproves your claim. If all you go off is video's, why would you blatantly just ignore this one, as this falls in line with the way you judge games you don't like. I just don't understand how you'd choose to just focus on the bad video's rather than acknowledge a video that disproves something you made up. It's obvious what your motive is here.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Alright, now that a dedicated thread for physics discussion is up, I'll kindly point people in that direction to discuss their... experiences thoughts. Can't really use the term "experiences" when some have none, I suppose.

The database has been updated. Nothing really stands out to me, other than FM6 having the most Swedes out of all the games since FM4. That game benefitted from all of the older Koenigsegg models, and the dearly-departed Saab. If the next few months give us 8 cars instead of 7 (a free one tied to the update), 2015 will wrap with FM6 hitting 500 current-gen models. And then comes Porsche...

Breaking things down further, looking at individual manufacturers, FM tends to have the jump on GT, unless it's a Japanese make, or a rare, one-model brand. BMW has 68 models in the database, from GT5 up to FM6. Comparing just the two games with 6 in the title, though:

• 1957 507 (Premium in GT6, last seen in FM4)
• 1973 2002 Turbo (Standard in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1975 3.0CSL Racecars (not in GT6, two liveries in FM6)
• 1979 M1 Procar (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1981 M1 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1986 M635CSi (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1988 M5 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1991 M3 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1995 850CSi (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1995 M5 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1997 M3 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 1998 Z3 M Coupe (Standard in GT6, last seen in 2002 guise in FM4)
• 1999 V12 LMR (Standard in GT6, two liveries in FM6)
• 2000 Z8 (Premium in GT6 as 2001 model, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2003 320i Touring car (Standard in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2003 M3 CSL (Standard in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2003 M3 GTR (Standard in GT6, last seen in 2002 guise in FM4)
• 2003 M5 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2003 Z4 (Premium in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2004 120d (Standard in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2004 120i (Standard in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2004 M3 (Standard in GT6, fully modelled in FM6 as 2005 model)
• 2005 330i (Standard in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2005 M5 (Standard in GT6 [and Premium in 2008 guise), last seen in 2009 guise in FM4)
• 2007 135i Coupe (Premium in GT6, last seen in 2009 guise in FM4)
• 2007 Concept 1 Series tii (Premium in GT6, not in FM6)
• 2007 M3 (Premium in GT6, fully modelled in 2008 guise in FM6)
• 2008 Z4 M Coupe (Premium in GT6, last seen in FM4)
• 2009 M3 GT2 (Premium in 2010 and 2011 guise in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2011 1 Series M Coupe (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2011 X5 M (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2011 Z4 GT3 (Premium in GT6, two liveries in 2014 guise in FM6)
• 2011 Z4 sDrive35i (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2012 M5 (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2013 M6 Coupe (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2014 125i BTCC (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2014 M235i (not in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2014 M4 Coupe (Premium in GT6, fully modelled in FM6)
• 2014 M4 M Performance Edition (Premium in GT6, not in FM6)
• BMW Vision GT (Partial Premium in GT6, not in FM6, obviously)

That's 40 total. Breaking it down a different way, here are the cars that are shared:

• 1973 2002 Turbo*
• 1999 V12 LMR*
• 2000/01 Z8
• 2004/05 M3*
• 2007/08 M3
• 2009/10/11 M3 GT2
• 2011/14 Z4 GT3
• 2014 M4 Coupe

Cars in GT6 that aren't available in FM6:

• 1957 507
• 1998 Z3 M Coupe*
• 2003 320i Touring Car*
• 2003 M3 CSL*
• 2003 M3 GTR*
• 2003 Z4
• 2004 120d*
• 2004 120i*
• 2005 330i*
• 2005/08 M5
• 2007 135i Coupe
• 2007 Concept 1 Series tii
• 2008 Z4 M Coupe
• 2014 M4 M Performance Edition
• BMW Vision GT

Cars in FM6 that aren't available in GT6:

• 1975 3.0CSL Racecars
• 1979 M1 Procar
• 1981 M1
• 1986 M635CSi
• 1988 M5
• 1991 M3
• 1995 850CSi
• 1995 M5
• 1997 M3
• 2003 M5
• 2011 1 Series M Coupe
• 2011 X5 M
• 2011 Z4 sDrive35i
• 2012 M5
• 2013 M6 Coupe
• 2014 125i BTCC
• 2014 M235i

* - Denotes Standard car.

FM6 only has two more exclusives, but they arguably cast a wider net. Personally, I miss the two Zx M cars (the clown shoe, and Bangle's brilliant Z4), and the 507, but I'm a lot less interested in a lightbar'd M4, or decade-old 1-series that probably populate the used car lists more than anybody's wishlists. The CSL would be nice, but it's a Standard.

I think I'll compare other makes on a regular basis, just to drum up discussion.

 

[buickgnx88]

Oddly enough, the one BMW I miss is the 328ci from GT3.

 

[dylansan]

FM6 has 5 BMWs from the 2000s decade. GT6 has 15. And only two cars before 1998! Ouch.

I think PD made things harder on themselves in GT4 when they focused so much on "current" cars which are now mostly outdated. Not such important contributions to the car list anymore.

 

[glassjaw]

And before you mention the F40.

Actually I wasn't going to mention the F40, but since you did it for me, this is how you do an F40 (courtesy of Driveclub):

Ok, ok the FM6 F40 isn't bad per se, I just have gotten really tired of some of the hallmarks of Forza's car modeling that haven't changed since FM1 and 2. Like that awful flat gray mesh texture on the grille, yuck. And the back wheels not being as deep as they should be. Honestly if you have the arrogance to pack in a Forzavista mode touting the accuracy and detail of your models, they should be some of the most accurate and detailed around. I guess that's my issue.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think PD made things harder on themselves in GT4 when they focused so much on "current" cars which are now mostly outdated. Not such important contributions to the car list anymore.

Y'know, I've never really looked at it like that, but it sums it up rather succinctly. GT4 was a marvel at the time because it covered so many new vehicles, but looking back, they seem like such anachronisms. Do we really need a 2003 Honda Element? A Citroen C3 1.6, or the Xsara VTR (not even the VTS)? Sure, FM has a few wacky additions as well, but the whole lineup is so well-balanced, it seems like less of an issue.

 

[ImaRobot]

Actually I wasn't going to mention the F40, but since you did it for me, this is how you do an F40 (courtesy of Driveclub):

Ok, ok the FM6 F40 isn't bad per se, I just have gotten really tired of some of the hallmarks of Forza's car modeling that haven't changed since FM1 and 2. Like that awful flat gray mesh texture on the grille, yuck. And the back wheels not being as deep as they should be. Honestly if you have the arrogance to pack in a Forzavista mode touting the accuracy and detail of your models, they should be some of the most accurate and detailed around. I guess that's my issue.

As small of an issue it is, I was always bothered by the ugly grill meshes on any car that had it available. They are almost 2d. They did make it a bit better this game, but alot of the older cars still use the flat, odd looking, grill meshes.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

That sounds more like a liking towards the game's physics system rather than something boiling down to the actual car. That does not take away from the point that the same happens in both games. Its just a bit odd that out of the 450+ cars, you can't find one car. That sounds a lot like purposely turning a blind eye, but if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

I am amazed at the lack of knowledge in some of the replies on here.

Those two cars I mentioned are dramatically different between FM2 and FM3 and those are not the only ones. It is not the physics it is the car and the way they did the game. For example in Forza 2 the S7 has race quality wings that can be added to it producing hundreds of pounds of downforce and giving it excellent grip, making it one of the best overall S class cars in that game. The CLK GTR likewise was able to get very good grip and was a serious contender on pretty much every track. In Forza 3 they took away the downforce or rather reduced it to a tiny fraction of what was there before and the car was no longer a factor on any grip track. They also increased the top speed and it went from being a car that was very good everwhere to being a car that was good on Lemans and Sunset Oval and that is about it.

The list of cars that were gutted has several entries on it.

And yes there is not really any cars I have driven in FM6 that I would miss all that much if I were to drive another game. I do like some of the muscle cars and historic race cars and may miss some of those a little but not much.

As for the tuning stuff there are indeed issues and to get top performance out of some of the cars you sometimes have to do things that would ruin the performance of a real car as well as somethings in game having almost no effect at all whereas they would have a much greater effect in real life and in a proper sim.

Overall Forza is Forza, every version has had some oddities and some exist across versions. If memory serves you indicated that you had only started tuning as of Forza 5 so it is no surprise that you may not see this. I have been tuning cars for a very long time and in lots of different games, so far the ones that do it best are GTR2, GT Legends and Project Cars. Forza is better than GT but a quite a ways behind the others I mentioned.

 

[ImaRobot]

Those two cars I mentioned are dramatically different between FM2 and FM3 and those are not the only ones. It is not the physics it is the car and the way they did the game. For example in Forza 2 the S7 has race quality wings that can be added to it producing hundreds of pounds of downforce and giving it excellent grip, making it one of the best overall S class cars in that game. The CLK GTR likewise was able to get very good grip and was a serious contender on pretty much every track. In Forza 3 they took away the downforce or rather reduced it to a tiny fraction of what was there before and the car was no longer a factor on any grip track. They also increased the top speed and it went from being a car that was very good everwhere to being a car that was good on Lemans and Sunset Oval and that is about it.

What lack of knowledge are you talking about?

So the problem is that it doesn't drive like it used to anymore? Yeah, since Forza 2, the physics have changed a lot. In fact it's advanced with every single iteration. It's to be expected. I'll give this car a try later, and see if I can acknowledge your problem. Although going through your Replays and the times you have set on circuits that are not Ovals, I would imagine that it might be a user error involved somewhere.

The list of cars that were gutted has several entries on it.

Such as?

And yes there is not really any cars I have driven in FM6 that I would miss all that much if I were to drive another game. I do like some of the muscle cars and historic race cars and may miss some of those a little but not much.

That's fine, but does nothing for your point about the game.

As for the tuning stuff there are indeed issues and to get top performance out of some of the cars you sometimes have to do things that would ruin the performance of a real car as well as somethings in game having almost no effect at all whereas they would have a much greater effect in real life and in a proper sim.

Except that we've already proven that this is not the case. This is a problem that you yourself, and no one else has been able to encounter. You seem to be blowing this part out of proportion, really. The fact that literally no one can encounter said problems is a bit odd. Although the certain tuning methods working greater on some cars and not the others is to be expected. You can't expect every car to be able to get the same effects. The ARB's, as I'm sure that's what your talking about, do have some cars that it doesn't effect as much as others, but it's not as extreme as you're making it out to be.

Overall Forza is Forza, every version has had some oddities and some exist across versions. If memory serves you indicated that you had only started tuning as of Forza 5 so it is no surprise that you may not see this. I have been tuning cars for a very long time and in lots of different games, so far the ones that do it best are GTR2, GT Legends and Project Cars. Forza is better than GT but a quite a ways behind the others I mentioned.

Me not tuning until recent years is not a problem as I can already acknowledge that the game advances with every iteration, so things are going to change. It's the problem that you don't want to accept, and that you mentioning FM2 and 3 so much it seems that you don't want to get around to relearning. Those games where using inferior physics models, so why you're expecting the same methods to work this time around is beyond me. It's been 8 years, and a completely new generation of consoles, since FM2 came out.

Like I said, other games are irrelevant if you're talking about your probelms with FM6, they have nothing to do with this game, and you can't expect every game to react the same way or the things they let you tune to be similar. GT and Forza are a testament to that, as the two approach the tuning menu very differently.

Also, I would hope that a game that primarly focus on physics first and foremost, would(should really) have a more in-depth and better tuning scenario than a game that caters to the more casual player.

 

[Fat Tyre]

In my opinion with this bad boy Forza has won the "Battle of the Sixes" and with it, the war.

What a coup Turn 10!

 

[05XR8]

Forgot about this thread.
I just mentioned in the cars list thread how F6 have the GTR LM and the Altima V8SC. I'll take those over 5 versions of Midnight Purple Pearl Metallic Clearcoat Version VII Nissan Nismo Skyline GT-R V-Specs any day.