Beginner School for Gran Turismo 5

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JohnBM01

JohnBM01

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JMarine25
A talking point of Gran Turismo 5 was a new driver's school for beginners. I blogged, did a video about, and even mention on GTPlanet about something to help out novices. Gran Turismo 5 may likely become the most difficult Gran Turismo in history. Perhaps even being even more difficult than Gran Turismo 4. So to help novices, I suggested that there should be something in place to help novice gamers (as well as give rusty and salty veterans a refresher course). So this topic asks this question: what would you want to see covered for this school?

I'll offer my own ideas in future posts.



--- Off-Topic Commentary ---
Before I close this introduction, I just want to say something. PD DOES listen to you and reads your content! There are people who say that PD doesn't care what we want. That they don't REALLY care what we think. Well, let me tell you in a different light. I'll try not to brag in any sort of way, but even my own suggestions have helped to make GT better for us. Here are some things I either talked about or seen mentioned right here on GTPlanet in regards to the Gran Turismo series...

* I mentioned that Bentley is a world-class manufacturer and that they won the 24 Hours of Le Mans five times in the first ten years of the race. You can read the scrolling marquee when you highlight Bentley, and you'll see that mentioned.

* I mentioned making the chicane out of the final tunnel at Grand Valley Speedway be smoothened out and not so slow, and the version in GT4 and Tourist Trophy have been smoothened out. Also, I hinted about bringing back the downtown buildings as part of Grand Valley Speedway... and we got those too.

* Someone on GTPlanet wanted to see the Fiat Panda from 1990 in GT4, and we got it in GT4.

* I think someone else mentioned the Lotus Carlton- we got that too in GT4.

* I mentioned that PD may need to work on an environmental model to include time and weather- we're getting that for GT5.

* Tire smoke has long been an issue. Looks like GT5 is going to give us the best tire smoke in GT history.

* We've seen the AI mature from recent E3 videos. AI long being a dark point of GT games.

And relevant to this thread...
* I mentioned that Gran Turismo 5 should have something to help out novice Gran Turismo players both in a blog and in a YouTube video... and we're getting that.


In other words, they don't necessarily listen/read YOU, but they do listen/read to their fans. So don't ever feel like your ideas aren't going to mean anything in creation of the next GT because they do. Some of the points above show that our desires and wishes may be fulfilled in building the next GT. And as we've seen in recent E3 footage, our desires and wants have been met for the most part. So your voice DOES mean something to PD and Gran Turismo.





Having said this, what would you like to see be featured for a Beginner School for Gran Turismo 5? What items do you think would/could/should be covered for this Driving School in GT5? Comment away!
 
Personally, I think the driving school and license tests should play a large part in GT5 online. Meaning that you cannot enter event (x) until you at least achieve license (y). I really think this will be implemented, since Prologue had something similar. So, the Beginner School should really go into driving skill and driving etiquette. Also, racing rules and regulations.

From a larger perspective, I completely agree that GT needs to open the bottom door a little bit. As it becomes more realistic, it will close out a lot of people because the learning curve would be too great. I can speak from experience. The only reason I know anything about cars and racing today, is because I rented GT3 back in the day and fell in love. I cannot imagine picking up something that is similar to TT demo today. :scared:

So...

Good for standard physics 👍
Good for beginner mode:tup:
And here is to hoping that some young guy/gal will pick up GT5, attempt to race, suck, and go to the Beginner School. Then, fall in love just like I did.👍
 
One of the biggest problems that i see beginners having trouble with is understanding that you don't have to push the throttle or the brake down to the floor all the time. I have a wheel/pedal setup at my house and whenever someone comes over and tries it out, i turn on assists, and still they constantly spin out because its hard for them to realize not to push it down full force. I know they don't drive their everyday cars like that but the only games most people ever played are your typical arcade type games where its all or nothing. And it takes getting used to the realism in Gran Turismo. (That's why I hate seeing comments about how much the people suck that play the demos.👎)
What sucks too, is that once they can't get the hang of it after a few minutes, they lose interest because its too hard. And I guess I'm not the best of teachers so if a beginner School was included, that would be awesome way to build the GT fanbase and have more people interested in cars in general.👍
 
Hey John, you're back!

Regards mate, your commitment to details and smart discussion about features was missed.

Nice to have you back, keep up the good work 👍
 
In GT5 online we will be able to organize track days, you know, just cruising around a bit. We also get spectator mode where you can watch another driver from any view. If that is also possible during track days, then a spectator could be your driving instructor (talking to you through the headsets) and explain what you're doing right and wrong. That would be the ultimate driving school for me. :)
 
Denur
If that is also possible during track days, then a spectator could be your driving instructor (talking to you through the headsets) and explain what you're doing right and wrong. That would be the ultimate driving school for me. :)
Click to expand...

Official site says this:

"Races and Track Days

...And of course racing isn’t the only thing you can do. You can host "Track Days", where everyone can drive freely on the track. You can try to reduce your laptimes, teach someone how to drive, or just enjoy drifting. There’s an infinite amount of ways to have fun here."

So basicaly, consider it confirmed.

http://eu.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/d13413p6.html
 
Licence tests have tried to do that in previous games and it has worked ok. Some test were designed bad and some are really hard but overal they have a habit of making you better understand how to drive. What is need is some kind of input thing to tell you exactly what you should do better. Input can be from CPU or community originated.
 
I'm new to racing simulators myself, and I still have trouble mastering some of the finer points of racing. Driving Fast.net helped me a bit, and some of the people on here have too. I think that if you made people do it, they would come out with a better appreciation for online racing.

It would at least give me hope that I won't spin out as much any more :D
 
This Driving School I think it's gonna be amazing and of course It's gonna play a huge part of GT in every way, I hope there's a Tuning School...tuning <----my weak point:grumpy:
 
JohnBM01
* I mentioned making the chicane out of the final tunnel at Grand Valley Speedway be smoothened out and not so slow, and the version in GT4 and Tourist Trophy have been smoothened out.
Click to expand...

That was you? Slay the heathen! :lol:

What the driving tests/licenses really need to do is teach people how to drive firstly without driving aids, and then to teach them to drive using professional physics. Obviously those particular tests would be optional... but there needs to be something in the game to ease the transition from standard physics to pro physics. We saw how remarkably different they were in prologue.
 
A track day feature, where there is 4 groups or more ( novice, veteran, semi prof & pro ).People can then move up the ranks, not just jump in any car and win most races.You could use your car you bought or drive their car or cars.This is how it works.Also there should be a rank match system, with other drivers whether online or off.

This plus a matching system where the game, creates the most entertainment for selected tracks.Example touring cars in the uk during the 60's, you'd find Escorts, Minis, Lotus Cortinas & Mk2 Jags etc vs Ford Falcons & Chevy Cameros.Really was fantastic entertainment then.
 
Seismica
That was you? Slay the heathen! :lol:

What the driving tests/licenses really need to do is teach people how to drive firstly without driving aids, and then to teach them to drive using professional physics. Obviously those particular tests would be optional... but there needs to be something in the game to ease the transition from standard physics to pro physics. We saw how remarkably different they were in prologue.
Click to expand...

lesson #5
take the slalom at 70mph with a Twin Turbo Ford GT
Driving aids: None
pritty easy:dopey:
 
As a novice, I like this idea. I'm hoping to make a switch to manual shifting when GT5 comes out but after several attempts, I'm starting to reconsider - it's hard.
 
There should be a driving test where you have to take a controlled route through some chicanes in a powerful car. It would teach throttle control, smooth steering and proper braking. Here's how it should go...
-Brake in a straight line when you reach a sign that says 'Brake'. Failure to brake or locking the brakes (ABS disabled) will fail the test.
- Steer into the chicane while keeping within two guide lines. Not staying within the lines or powersliding will fail the test.
- Keep the throttle smooth, progressive and don't slam the accelerator down hard. Using full acceleration when in the chicane will fail the test.
- Progressively apply full throttle. Slamming the accelerator down hard will fail the test.

I think a test like this could teach people how to drive in a controlled manner and teach them how to handle the power of a fast car.
 
Well I think we already have the license tests, but considering how challenging GT is I think a begginer thing would be a great idea... explain to people easily and quickly the basics of stuff like "break before the turn while you are still going straight" and "it's easier to catch up if you break too early than it is if you go off the corner".

Just some basic ideas that I see lots of novices not understand and which license test are actually too granular to convey properly.
 
First of all, thanks for the welcome, amar212. Most of my Gran Turismo material has mostly been in my blog. I've just kept away from the GT5 forums for some time.

One of the things I mentioned (or did I?) was that GT5 should have clinics or something to aid you in certain aspects of the game. Among the majority of things were basic tests and exercises. An example of such an exercise would be about launching the car properly. Since Gran Turismo 3, you have to watch your revs as you take off. If I learned anything about launching properly off the line, ToCA Race Driver 3 basically made me have to depress the throttle a few times to get a decent launch off the line.

About that Grand Valley in GT4 note, that was mostly to make that chicane section not as slow and condensed to try and pass cleanly.


Why do we need such a Driving School? You only learn so much from reading license test info. Or wait, let me correct- you don't learn ANYTHING. They are basically errands, assuming you know how to work a car in the game. Here is an example from another game to prove my point. The so-called Race School of "Suzuki TT Superbikes: Real Road Racing Championship" just shows you a bunch of times to beat and some criteria for passing. But, you don't learn ANYTHING. You don't get to really practice your skills. It just assumes you know how to operate a racing machine (racing motorcycles in this case), and that you're expected to pass. Not really learning anything from this game's Race School isn't helping me to complete a lap around the 37.73-mile Isle of Man TT (Snaefell Mountain Course) anywhere between 18 minutes to 24 minutes!

So we need something like this Driving School to teach everything from basics to applied techniques. The Driving School should be the lessons while the License Tests should be tests. Think about it- are you given a test on dividing polynomials before being taught about how to divide polynomials (BAD college memories!)? I'd rather be taught how to do something so that I stand a better chance at passing the test. Equally important is the that the Driving School and respective License Tests are consistent. Here is my method, starting with the Acceleration and Braking license tests:

lesson on accelerating and braking -> practice accelerating and braking -> begin test on accelerating and braking when ready

Gran Turismo 4 was the first GT to feature one-lap trials in basic license tests. I'm not talking about the Super License tests that are all one-lap time trials, I'm talking about stuff like racing behind the Pace Car in one lap time trials. Here is how that should work:

see a Pace Car lap -> practice racing full laps around a course in a given car -> begin one-lap trial test.


I just don't think you learn anything if you just follow a set of instructions and then *try* to execute what is asked of you. If you're some hard ass that doesn't need any instruction on anything, then go right ahead and get right to the test. But for the rest of us, we need a way to practice our skills before trying things out. Consider this to be warming up or practicing our skills before taking on a License Test.

That's just my mindset- having a proper facility for which to practice skills so that our chances of doing better are enhanced. Beginner School shouldn't be required, but it's there if you need it. That's the way it should be. Give every GT gamer every opportunity to hone his/her skills to be the absolute best they can be. This is definitely a step in the right direction with a potentially difficult title as Gran Turismo 5.
 
Like most people here I&#8217;ve been playing Gran Turismo games for many years but I still have a lot to learn, the GT Academy TT demo proved that! I&#8217;m really looking forward to the driving school and hope that it doesn&#8217;t just cover the basics for beginners but includes advanced skills and techniques.

I agree that the licence tests don&#8217;t really teach any good habits and just enforce repetition until you eventually achieve your target, also the difference between the medals in the tests is vast so if you only settle for bronze then you really aren&#8217;t learning anything.

A well written piece of text with a series of static images can be a useful training guide but it should only be a supplement to practical application of individual skills and dynamic tuition based on you actions. It is difficult to learn multiple new skills all at once so they should be broken down into their component parts (e.g. braking, turn in/apex/exit points, throttle control, smoother steering, adjusting racing line for overtaking etc). I&#8217;d like there to verbal and onscreen instructions of what actions you should be taking on track for each skill with feedback on how well you did and what you need to do to improve. I&#8217;d also like to have a pace/ghost car to follow and copy that dynamically adjusts its speed based on your own ability gradually increasing the pace as you progress.

As you progress through the driving school it should definitely cover the differences between normal and pro mode, the various electronic aides and eventually tyre choice and tuning which can be bewildering to most people although Scaff&#8217;s guides will help with this.

A very common mantra that I have found repeated in a variety of training material for motorbike and mountain bike riding in real life is to stay relaxed and read the road ahead of you so you can plan your actions rather than react to what is thrown at you. I believe this also applies to a driving game so hopefully the driving school will not just give you the skills to go fast but the right frame of mind to drive intelligently and fully understand what you are doing and why.
 
With regards to the mode, I think there should just be 1 mode, pro.
Beginner drivers can easily drive any car in pro mode, but use all the assists without having any difficulty.
Once they start adjusting and getting use to it, they can remove more and more assists.
 
Personally i think that the licenses test do they work very well as driving school, comes to my mind GT1 and the licenses help A LOT, they give the basics and for rest the only school is drive and drive and drive, Sunday cup work as well.
 
My worry for GT5 is that its going to be too realistic for most of the people who have played it over the years. When prologue was released I invited some friends over to play on my g25 setup and most of them really didn't get to into. It was just to realistic for them, I tried explaining it to them, but they just didn't get it or enjoy it. Driving School has to take these racing fans and immerge them into the experience and keep their attention and make sure they are having fun.

I also like how IRACING does it licenses. You start out low, and earn new licenses but if you start driving like a maniac you can get demoted. I really like how IRACING works in this aspect of the game. Anyways I know GT5 won't disappoint me I just don't know about the millions of other fans.
 
Denur
In GT5 online we will be able to organize track days, you know, just cruising around a bit. We also get spectator mode where you can watch another driver from any view. If that is also possible during track days, then a spectator could be your driving instructor (talking to you through the headsets) and explain what you're doing right and wrong. That would be the ultimate driving school for me. :)
Click to expand...
Expanding on your (great) idea, how awesome would it be if the pros here at GTP occasionally hosted a track day, where they could pass on some of their know-how to people here who aren't as good at the game? They could teach you the basics of things like cornering, drifting, or whatever else. They could even give you demonstrations, with you either watching them by following on the track, or watching as a spectator, then you could then go off and practice what they've taught you for yourself.

OK, so maybe it's a bit of wishful thinking on my part, but it sounded great in my head :p

As for the driving school, I think it would be great, especially for people like me who are in love with the series but never been anything more than average at best. The more help the better.
 
Is there any help in the game on how to set up your car?

I have never touched those setting even tho I've played GT1/2/3/4 (just tuned with parts for top speed)
 

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