Best British Car (National Car Thread 1, Now With Poll)

[amp88]

I was hoping to roll it in all under the MINI name, so I'm sorry.

Grrr, I'm not voting for that German piece of excrement. You're forcing me into voting for the Carlton

 

[YSSMAN]

Grrr, I'm not voting for that German piece of excrement. You're forcing me into voting for the Carlton

Again, I'm sorry...

Were getting the kinks out here, so I aplogise to anyone if this thread is the most important one of them all. Weve got several more countries to go through, those of which include the United States, Germany, France, Italy, Japan and Australia, so if the need be, we can re-do this British thread at the end.

Once we all get the hang of it, we should be able to do it better. I'm thinking next-time I give three or four days for folks to get as many nominations and replies in, then leave the last three days for voting and debate, and then the winner of the round will be nominated and move on to the "World Series" matchup.

 

[opendriver]

If both of the ariels were up there, id vote for both of them. I mainly like the second version though. A close second is the F1 GTR

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, I apologise for the kinks, they will be sorted out for the next one...

 

[Tornado]

oh, and M5 power, the lotus carlson was beaten to the punch by the AMG hammer

And depending on your definition of "sedan," the very under-rated Buick GNX.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Well, I apologise for the kinks, they will be sorted out for the next one...

Hey, no problems. You've created a very good thread that's got alot of people posting and hasn't turned into a pissing contest 👍

 

[Poverty]

I want the mini, or transit van to win. The transit van is easily the most important car there.

 

[1X83Z]

But would you buy one?

Be quiet Famine, I'm not dumb enough to buy a British car.

(PS - it doesn't seem like this thread intends to find the best British car to own, just the best one overall - and didn't you call me out for that and then nominate the GT40?! Shame!)

I want the mini, or transit van to win. The transit van is easily the most important car there.

British people think that, and I laugh at them constantly for that opinion. The Ford Transit isn't important at all. It's a simple concept and to my knowledge Britain is the only place where it ever did spectacularly. Mediocre at best.

First of all, if that is what I intended to do you are far from innocent. Second of all, that is not what I as doing in the slightest. I asked him about Bugatti of Modena, and then I explained why I asked. In addition, the simple fact that you felt the need to start a useless arguement when I wasn't even talking to you reinforces the fact that you have nothing better to do than following me around wherever I post and starting ****.

Actually the funny thing is you think I know who you are. Until yesterday, I hadn't ever noticed you or remembered your name before. Basically, it's really simple: I reply to whatever posts I deem necessary, and I remember the names of the people who make good ones. I don't "follow you around" to antagonize, since that would require me knowing who you are - however I'm going to call you out on calling the Buick Grand National a sedan, too. Since, you know, it has TWO DOORS. I could further call you out for saying it "beat" the Carlton, since it not only had just two doors but was also slower and never sold in the same market as the Carlton, and I could then chastise you for following me around to start a "useless argument."

But I won't.

 

[ExigeEvan]

British people think that, and I laugh at them constantly for that opinion. The Ford Transit isn't important at all. It's a simple concept and to my knowledge Britain is the only place where it ever did spectacularly. Mediocre at best.

Didn't you talk about the success and brilliance of the F-series pickups before?

The fact is the F-series pickups and the Transit are beasts of similair burden. Except in the UK it rains so damn often than an open bed is rarely viable and we also like carrying extremely tall things in the back. Like ornamental bamboo and totem poles.

And yet I think you'll find the F-series pickups don't export particulary well, atleast in Europe I think it's a fair comment.

 

[1X83Z]

Didn't you talk about the success and brilliance of the F-series pickups before?

Success maybe but brilliance not likely. However your analogy's off - not only has the F-series recorded many more sales than the Transit, the F-series is important in both the commercial AND private segments, unlike the Transit which is essentially never purchased for private transport. So yes I'd consider the F-series more important, even though I wouldn't be nominating it for "Best American Car" anytime soon.

 

[Dave A]

Brilliance and importance don't mean the same thing, the fact is that the Transit was and is a very important British vehicle, it's very reliable and you can fit a hell of a lot in one thanks to the good design and the fact that you can get fairly large Transit vans in the first place. We tend not use flat bed trucks, they're not as practical over here, that's why you don't tend to see them. I'd take a Transit over an flat bed truck if I needed somethng to shift a large object/s.

 

[daan]

the F-series recorded many more sales than the Transit,

How many? The F-series will have a slightly bigger market than the transit though, wouldn't it?

EDIT: F-series was introduced in 1948. The Transit was introduced in 1965. So, it's been on sale for longer, in a bigger market. Is it a surprise it's sold more?

 

[High-Test]

Bentley 8 Litre. Because it would look sick if it was lowered, fenders removed, and chopped. give it some really sparkly gold metalflake, and a set of whitewall tires on the stock wheels. Plus, give the original motor Zoomies.


Geez.. I'm twisted. Is nothing sacred?

More importantly, because it's a piece of Artwork.

 

[Scaff]

The Ford Transit isn't important at all. It's a simple concept and to my knowledge Britain is the only place where it ever did spectacularly. Mediocre at best.

So the vehicle that singularly changed the face of light commercial vehicles in Europe is not important?

The transit did very well through-out Europe, to the degree that the name Transit has similar generic qualities as 'Hoover'.

I'm sorry but to say that the Transit was not important simply shows a lack of understanding or knowledge of the market place in Europe. It totally redefined the light commercial van sector when introduced over 40 years ago, setting at the time amazing benchmarks for handling, load capacity, refinement and reliability.

Every light commercial van released in Europe since the Mk 1 Transit has been influenced by it, a long way from unimportant.

Ford Transit - A breif history

Scaff

 

[TheCracker]

Success maybe but brilliance not likely. However your analogy's off - not only has the F-series recorded many more sales than the Transit, the F-series is important in both the commercial AND private segments, unlike the Transit which is essentially never purchased for private transport. So yes I'd consider the F-series more important, even though I wouldn't be nominating it for "Best American Car" anytime soon.

Plenty of Transits get purchased for private use. A large percentage of small motorhomes in Europe are Transit based. A large percentage of F-series sized flat-beds are also a variation of Transit.

In Europe, especially for a mostly-sold-in-europe vehicle, 5 million+ sales is an impressive figure.

 

[Poverty]

British people think that, and I laugh at them constantly for that opinion. The Ford Transit isn't important at all. It's a simple concept and to my knowledge Britain is the only place where it ever did spectacularly. Mediocre at best.

And I laugh at americans who for some strange reason believe that they need a 5litre or bigger, rear wheel drive pick-up just to carry some tools and equipment

Success maybe but brilliance not likely. However your analogy's off - not only has the F-series recorded many more sales than the Transit, the F-series is important in both the commercial AND private segments, unlike the Transit which is essentially never purchased for private transport. So yes I'd consider the F-series more important, even though I wouldn't be nominating it for "Best American Car" anytime soon.

The F-series is a wide range of models, the transit only comes in swb, mwb, and lwb.

So people in america actually use that crappy thing for everyday use!! I dont see why thats something to be proud of, it just highlights the inadequancies of the US automotive market, no wonder german sales are increasing all the time, whilst the domestics havent.

 

[Danny]

Bentley 8 Litre.

*snip*


More importantly, because it's a piece of Artwork.

Hear hear. I'm 100% in agreement, but I've already voted.

 

[Jim Prower]

GT40. Why? It had about the same amount of development time as the P-51 Mustang, and turned out to be about as dominant.

 

[Scaff]

I've just added the Original Mini to the Poll (I was tempted to remove that German thing - but as my brother in law makes them it would be a bit nasty - so it stays).

If anyone has already voted because no original Mini was in place, then let me know and I can amend the figures as required. Just let me know what you originally voted for.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Roo]

I would've nominated the Defender, but I forgot whilst heaping praise on the Mini

It's a simple concept and to my knowledge Britain is the only place where it ever did spectacularly.

As it's a partly British van, primerily (not all Transits are) built in Britain, that sold very well and is a staple of our industry, I think it deserves a place in the Best British Car thread. One reason the F-series never sold that much over here is that it's huge - particularly in width (narrowest current F being 79 inches, or 6 1/2 feet wide, according to Wikipedia) - making it impractical for the narrow streets in many British towns and cities. The F-series was designed for America, and sold millions there. The Transit was designed for Europe, and sold millions there. The fact that there are other vehicles that've sold more, or are arguably better, doesn't detract from the key part the Transit has performed for all types of British industry.

The F-series is a wide range of models, the transit only comes in swb, mwb, and lwb.

...plus the Transit Jumbo, Connect SWB, Connect LWB; then there's all the body variations (roof height, flat bed, minibus). That's before we even start on the engine sizes and trim levels.

So people in america actually use that crappy thing for everyday use!!

even though I wouldn't be nominating [the F-series] for "Best American Car" anytime soon.

WARNING: CRASS GENERALISATION AHEAD!

Many Americans - as far as I'm aware, having never been to the USA - just see a car or truck as something to sit in whilst you move from point A to point B. So long as it works, they aren't bothered about whether it's any good as a vehicle or not.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've just added the Original Mini to the Poll (I was tempted to remove that German thing - but as my brother in law makes them it would be a bit nasty - so it stays).

If anyone has already voted because no original Mini was in place, then let me know and I can amend the figures as required. Just let me know what you originally voted for.

Regards

Scaff

Thank you sir, I hope we won't have to do the same thing again next-time.

WARNING: CRASS GENERALISATION AHEAD!

Many Americans - as far as I'm aware, having never been to the USA - just see a car or truck as something to sit in whilst you move from point A to point B. So long as it works, they aren't bothered about whether it's any good as a vehicle or not.

And for the most part, you would be completely right. The overwhelming majority of Americans don't care if their cars can pull 0.9g on the skidpad and accelerate to 60 MPH in less than six-seconds as long as they look good in it, and that is generally all that matters. Throw in some brand preferences that have been either baked-in by the family or by the decidedly anti-American automobile press, and you have a good reason as to why cars like the Toyota Camry and Chevrolet Impala have both sold so well for so long.

Thankfully the British have a greater appreciation for driving than most Americans, and it is a pitty that it turns out that way. Given how vast our country is, it is quite sad that most Americans would choose not to enjoy it by purchasing vehicles like GMC Envoys and Lexus LS460s. The utterly boring win so often in America, it makes me sick sometimes.

 

[Tornado]

Actually the funny thing is you think I know who you are. Until yesterday, I hadn't ever noticed you or remembered your name before. Basically, it's really simple: I reply to whatever posts I deem necessary, and I remember the names of the people who make good ones. I don't "follow you around" to antagonize, since that would require me knowing who you are

Way to shirt the question. Good show. And considering you've done it twice in one day for no apparent reason, not to mention once before, I'd say knowing me doesn't really matter.

- however I'm going to call you out on calling the Buick Grand National a sedan, too. Since, you know, it has TWO DOORS. I could further call you out for saying it "beat" the Carlton, since it not only had just two doors but was also slower and never sold in the same market as the Carlton, and I could then chastise you for following me around to start a "useless argument."
But I won't.

Which is a good thing, because it wouldn't be true. Had you read my post and not turned a blind eye to what I said just to get a reaction out of me, I stated that the GNX beat the Carlton to the punch, which merely means that it was sold before hand. And you'll also note that I said very explicity "depending on your definition of sedan," which nullifies your "2 doors" point. In addition, I see no reply to neanderthal about the Hammer, which beat the Carlton both in time and in speed, further proving your just trolling; especially when combined with your post about the Transit.
In addition, I will also say that I'm very surprised that you had the gall to reply to me saying that I was trying to set YSSMAN up to one-up him, because looking through your posts I'm hard pressed to find one that doesn't do just that. For god's sake, the post in which you said that to me also featured you trying to set me up to one-up me.
Your problem is that you either miss or completely ignore (which is more likely) the point being made by whom ever you were replying to in order to point out some discrepency in their post that you, with your vast knowledge of such trivial matters, can try to correct make them look bad and yourself look better. It doesn't invalidate their point at all, making it a useless arguement, but it takes people's minds off of the point that the person made so it looks like you have won. The funny thing is, many of your posts are just what I've described (or of you flaming people into the situation I've described), making you (by your flawless knowledge, because you are M5Power and to question you is to question God himself) a fool. I even have a series of posts that you have done it to me before, and won, because you managed to take people's minds off of my point because of some useless piece of trivia. I also notice that when someone proves one of your things wrong, you don't reply back, or you resort to personal insults when it looks like you might not win.

 

[Pebb]

I can't belive you forgot about the E-Type mk1 and DB5?

 

[Danny]

I can't belive you forgot about the E-Type mk1 and DB5?

Another nomination-

And also the E-Type.

I didn't forget

And it is in the poll, under the name of the XKE.

 

[GM]

Happy to see some other Ford Transit fans out there

 

[1X83Z]

Is it a surprise it's sold more?

Absolutely not, which makes me wonder why the hell you highlighted that passing remark which was essentially irrelevant to that post.

So the vehicle that singularly changed the face of light commercial vehicles in Europe is not important?

Okay stay with me here because I understand where you're coming from, but you have to understand a bit where I'm coming from in order to understand my argument. The sole problem I have with the above statement is that you talk about the Transit like it was the second coming - like it really was something incredibly special - when really it was a very, very simple concept: two seats, box behind. A two-year-old could've come up with it. So yes, the Transit may have been an original in this market, but it's a market that was begging to be discovered, and the Transit was just a bit of a right place-right time situation.

And before you rebut by saying the same about the F-series, do note that I didn't bring the F-series up, and I completely agree that the F-series (and all the monster-selling US pickup trucks like various models by Chevrolet and the Dodge Ram) was a concept that was similarly begging to be discovered.

Bottom line: I understand your point about the Transit, and it's an important vehicle, but the simplicity of its concept forces it, in my view, to take a backseat to some of the other cars on this list (not only limited to my nomination, the Lotus Carlton). I'm not about to question its importance - but for the title of "best British car," there simply are better.

And I laugh at americans who for some strange reason believe that they need a 5litre or bigger, rear wheel drive pick-up just to carry some tools and equipment

I deserved that. Or at least many Americans do. Do note that my own vehicle is a European sedan with a 2.3-liter engine.

So people in america actually use that crappy thing for everyday use!! I dont see why thats something to be proud of, it just highlights the inadequancies of the US automotive market, no wonder german sales are increasing all the time, whilst the domestics havent.

All right my man - unfair - I love Britons and British cars and let's not turn this into an argument about nationality. You don't quite understand our market nor do you understand why it's such a strong seller here and as you've never driven the vehicle I wouldn't necessarily be preaching about how it highlights the inadequacies of the US market (personally, I don't think it does - as large trucks go, it's a good one). There are quite a few British products that highlight the inadquacies of the British market, but let's just not go there.

Plenty of Transits get purchased for private use. A large percentage of small motorhomes in Europe are Transit based. A large percentage of F-series sized flat-beds are also a variation of Transit.

Fair but I do hope you got the essential bits of my post there - I'd say that a good 300,000 to 450,000 yearly F-series sales are private, which accounts for between a third and a half of all the vehicle's sales. The Transit doesn't quite compare there.

Way to shirt the question. Good show. And considering you've done it twice in one day for no apparent reason, not to mention once before, I'd say knowing me doesn't really matter.

What! You didn't ask a question!

Which is a good thing, because it wouldn't be true. Had you read my post and not turned a blind eye to what I said just to get a reaction out of me, I stated that the GNX beat the Carlton to the punch, which merely means that it was sold before hand. And you'll also note that I said very explicity "depending on your definition of sedan," which nullifies your "2 doors" point. In addition, I see no reply to neanderthal about the Hammer, which beat the Carlton both in time and in speed, further proving your just trolling; especially when combined with your post about the Transit.
In addition, I will also say that I'm very surprised that you had the gall to reply to me saying that I was trying to set YSSMAN up to one-up him, because looking through your posts I'm hard pressed to find one that doesn't do just that. For god's sake, the post in which you said that to me also featured you trying to set me up to one-up me.
Your problem is that you either miss or completely ignore (which is more likely) the point being made by whom ever you were replying to in order to point out some discrepency in their post that you, with your vast knowledge of such trivial matters, can try to correct make them look bad and yourself look better. It doesn't invalidate their point at all, making it a useless arguement, but it takes people's minds off of the point that the person made so it looks like you have won. The funny thing is, many of your posts are just what I've described (or of you flaming people into the situation I've described), making you (by your flawless knowledge, because you are M5Power and to question you is to question God himself) a fool. I even have a series of posts that you have done it to me before, and won, because you managed to take people's minds off of my point because of some useless piece of trivia. I also notice that when someone proves one of your things wrong, you don't reply back, or you resort to personal insults when it looks like you might not win.

Calm down my man!

The bottom line on the whole Transit debacle is that while I agree it deserves a place in this thread, I hope you guys don't vote it as the best British car. It's a commercially-important vehicle, yes, but Britain has made an absurd amount of good cars over the years and the Transit doesn't deserve top spot. (honestly, I like the Carlton, but if this were being conducted officially, I'd vote for the Mini - it was even more important than the Transit, and it's so well loved, even in the US where it was never sold...)

By the way, YSSMAN: since you started this thread, here's a good idea. After a few more days of discussion and voting, you should take the top five or six vehicles and put them in their own poll essentially forcing us to vote for one of the most popular, which should secure a clear-cut winner. It'll be interesting to see this done for the rest of the world.

 

[JCE]

The original Morris Mini. No other car to me with exception to a Jaguar screams British greatness. I wish Minis took off in the states, it would of completely changed the automotive scene just like small light imports did in the mid-late 80's-90's.

P.S. I read no posts in this thread...I just voted. Shame on me...

 

[Scaff]

Bottom line: I understand your point about the Transit, and it's an important vehicle, but the simplicity of its concept forces it, in my view, to take a backseat to some of the other cars on this list (not only limited to my nomination, the Lotus Carlton). I'm not about to question its importance - but for the title of "best British car," there simply are better.

I'm not disputing any opinion on if it is the "best british car" at all, I didn'y vote for it, neither would I even personally class it as a car.

My issue was simply with this statement.

British people think that, and I laugh at them constantly for that opinion. The Ford Transit isn't important at all. It's a simple concept and to my knowledge Britain is the only place where it ever did spectacularly. Mediocre at best.

Now the quote above quite clearly states that you believe that the Transit "isn't important at all" and "Mediocre at best". Dealing with this first off, the Transit, when first launched totaly and utterly changed the very concept of LCV's in Europe. Something I would say is far from mediocre, and certainly important.

Trying to dismiss this because the concept is simple is just plain daft, the simplicity of the solution is not even relivent. Its how that simple concept is brought into being.

The original Mini is a very simple concept, as is the Land Rover yet the manner in which they were realised and the engineering behind them was excellent.
This simplicity of concept do not in any way diminish the importance of vehicls like this.

The same is true of the Transit, it brought a level of design and engineering to the LCV that had never been done before.

I'm sorry but using simplicity of concept is a very weak argument against the importance of any vehicle.

You also state next that to your knowledge the Transit only did well in the UK, which I'm sorry is just wrong. The Transit has been a strong selling LCV in Europe since its launch, and was (and still is) the benchmark against which all LCVs are pitched.

The part of your post I find most concerning is the apparent mocking of anyone who holds these opinions, the line "British people think that, and I laugh at them constantly for that opinion.", I personally find quite insulting and to be honest, representative of a number of your recent posts.

Its an unfortunate attitude that has not gone unnoticed and I would politely ask you to refrain.

Regards

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

By the way, YSSMAN: since you started this thread, here's a good idea. After a few more days of discussion and voting, you should take the top five or six vehicles and put them in their own poll essentially forcing us to vote for one of the most popular, which should secure a clear-cut winner. It'll be interesting to see this done for the rest of the world.

Yes, I'm begining to think the same thing. It was either that we clean up this mess here, or we wait a bit and go back to this topic at the end. Your idea is probably a bit more simple.

This was more of a test than anything, and thus far I'm happy with the results. I'm going to have to be a bit more concise with the rules and how long the period will be to the voting begins, etc.

So I guess the questions become:

1) What day is good for final voting in this thread?
2) What country do we do next (USA, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, etc.)?
3) How long till the top-five cars are picked there?
4) How many days left for voting?

I want to attempt to make this as easy as possible, as I know a lot of us have school starting up again, so I want to get as much in as possible.

---

Idea!?

Should we be doing this all at once, aka, World-Cup style?

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

Ford GT40. The most beatiful race ever built, IMHO.