Best Car 2008: Germany --> Porsche 911 vs Audi R8 Recount!

[TheCracker]

The SL65 Black that won the original vote. I simply can't bring myself to get excited about it.


M

I find it strange that it won considering i don't think the car has even been reviewed by any magazines yet. For all we know, it could be a complete dog.

 

[Giancarlo]

911's are so drab, i have to vote for the R8. It's easy to vote for a car like the 911, which has had the same formula with just some parts here and there improved upon over the years. So of course it's a great car...they haven't done much in years!

I'd rather mistake the R8 for a TT (which you really can't, honestly...the R8 is so much bigger and wider with a much more aggressive stance) than a 911 for every other Porsche that has ever been made. But with a new body kit.

 

[Tommi]

I voted for the R8, when I saw the Le Mans Quattro Concept car way back in 2003 I knew Audi was on to a winner.
The R8 is a truly fantastic piece of engineering and is a stunning car to look at too, whether you think it is 'ugly' or not it certainly has road presence, as already highlighted the 911 is almost an everyday occurance in many countries, though not so much the GT3, Turbo etc.

Porsche need to realise the same old design gets boring after 40 years however good it may be, the R8 ticks all the boxes, practicality, superb build quality and excitement all rolled into one, with a V10 and(eventually) a V12 Diesel on the way other Manufacturers better watch out, Audi has already given them a kick up the backside with the V8.

I could go on for ages about this car, it is a truly outstanding achievement:tup:.

 

[orimarc]

I voted for the Porsche, because of what it did: Make the RR layout known worldwide. And because I think that the R8 is fast, BUT, has one of the (IMHO) UGLIEST frontal I've ever seen.

 

[YSSMAN]

911 needs innovations. With every new one I feel like "meh, just another 911. Still looks like week old fish"... In addition, they keep stealing from VW's partsbin... And diesel would be a good move if they really want to improve their economy ratings.

I'm just not all that sure that you "get it" with a Porsche... Innovation is key, I understand that, and to a great extent Porsche has been ahead of the curve for some time. The thing is, they were doing it so long ago that people tend to forget. For that matter, what is there left to "innovate" on the 911 to begin with?

As for VW "parts bin" things, its been VW who has been taking things out of the Porsche catalog for years. With Porsche likely to become their future overlords, that trend will likely continue.

Lets look at this way; The 911 is about not compromising, not settling for anything less than motoring perfection. It will out drive cars that cost more and have more power, often for less money. It will happily spend all afternoon at the track, and after you're done, let you pick up the kids at school. They ride perfectly in the city, and are properly "tight" out in the country.

I've only driven one 911, a vintage one at that, but when it is the motoring equivalent of reaching nirvana... Everything just ends up making sense afterward. You understand why Porsche does what they do, why people love their cars, and in the end you end up seeing why it has been the benchmark for so long. Its just perfect.

 

[///M-Spec]

I find it strange that it won considering i don't think the car has even been reviewed by any magazines yet. For all we know, it could be a complete dog.

+1.

I don't think Mercedes has let a single journalist drive it yet. In fact, I was just reading the latest Evo last night and all they were allowed to do was look at it. But they did seem pretty impressed with it. Or at least impressed with how it looks and sounds.


M

 

[Tornado]

And diesel would be a good move if they really want to improve their economy ratings.

And would have been just about the worst move possible for every other reason.

It can't thrive much longer - and the R8 is one of the reasons why.

I dunno about that. I've been hearing this a lot lately due to the duel onslaught of the GT-R and R8, but the fact of the matter is that it held off the R32 GT-R and NSX 18 years ago, and the GT-R and R8 (respectively, of course) are essentially crafted from the same mold as those were. And the 997 sucks a lot less than the 964 did.

 

[Speedster502]

But they did seem pretty impressed with it. Or at least impressed with how it looks and sounds.


M

But what do looks and sounds prove? It could sound beautiful but still handle like a pig, thats the reason why I voted for the CLK63 Black Edition, which has been reviewed! But I do completely agree with yours and TheCrackers point.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

But what do looks and sounds prove? It could sound beautiful but still handle like a pig, thats the reason why I voted for the CLK63 Black Edition, which has been reviewed! But I do completely agree with yours and TheCrackers point.

I think that's one of the subconscious reasons why I voted for the CLK63. But to me the CLK looks way better. Many people probably just assumed that the SLK would be a lot like the CLK, but with more power.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I drove a 911 once. It was the most depressingly unexciting experience of my driving career. Maybe it's just me, but I found the drive to be completely devoid of interest - a bit like when I see them in the street. It didn't seem fast, I didn't "get" the steering, and the brakes felt like I was pushing rocks together. Yes, I'd probably thank you for giving me one, and if it were a 993 or 997 Turbo I'd probably even keep it. But for such a performance icon to be so bland was a terrible terrible shock. So I'm voting against it for that very reason.

On the other hand, I have not driven an R8. But I really really want to. It's exciting to look at, and I'd really love to see how good it really is (mindful of the crashing disappointment that was the 911) in the face of the almost universal praise it has received in the world's media.

 

[Jim Prower]

How hard, exactly, were you allowed to drive the 911? Just out of curiosity, not meant to disprove any points or anything.

 

[Tornado]

I think the bigger question is what 911 was it?

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd care to know too, because when I drove that '87 Carrera 3.2, it quite literally changed my life. For that matter, the owner told me to drive the hell out of it (in front of my parents!), and even I had a difficult time getting it to do exactly what I wanted.

 

[TheCracker]

Porsche need to realise the same old design gets boring after 40 years

Why? they can still sell more of them than they can make - and they make a lot of them. Selling 13,153 in North America alone in 2007.

 

[homeforsummer]

I voted 911. Much as I like the R8, I just prefer the 911. I like the looks of it, whatever generation you're talking about (though the earliest 60s cars and the 993 are the prettiest to me) and the current car is undoubtably very impressive whichever version you choose. Personally I like the idea of a GT3RS, but realistically the very base Carrera 2 would give you 90% of the feeling the GT3 or GT2 do but for tens of thousands less.

The R8 would probably have had more of a look-in from me if they'd developed an entirely new engine for it instead of giving it the RS4's lump. It's unquestionably a very good engine but the V10 from the Gallardo would have been more fitting. Though I'm sure VAG didn't want the two cars to compete too much...

 

[exigeracer]

Vote R8 - it'll be a no contest when the Supermarine package is available as an option later this year. Look out 911!

 

[Greycap]

Supermarine? Perhaps submarine but that could probably take part in Schwimmen... err Schneider Trophy.

 

[///M-Spec]

Giles' experience with the 911 reminds me of what I wrote in the "Best Car in the World for the Money" thread. Even something most people take for granted as easy to agree on ---fun to drive, in this case-- is not a foregone conclusion. In his case he simply didn't care for it.

I've had the pleasure of driving both a 993 and a 996 over the years and I can say without reservation that I found both cars, and the 993 in particular, to 'live up to the legend'.

I remember both drives vividly. The 993 was Guards Red Carrera 6-speed with a black interior. It was raining lightly that afternoon, so I didn't push it very hard. About 7/10ths up and down a road I knew well and a couple of low speed exploratory turns up to (and slightly over) the limit. I had just bought my first M3 maybe 8 or 9 months ago (which I thought was the dog's you-know-what), but the 993 was even more impressive. The interior was a little old fashioned compared to the E36 and the carpet had that 'old German car smell' (German car owners will know exactly what I'm talking about). But the overall feel of the car was positively electric. The M3 felt slightly dull in comparison.

The 996 drive was a good time as well. It was also Guards Red, but a 6-speed Cabriolet with gray full leather and a bunch of "yuppie porn" options like painted wheel crests, red seat belts, color matching dials and other crap like that. The Porsche/BMW sales guy was someone I knew from the SCCA and it was his second to last day on the job, so he actually said to me "hey, if there's anything you want to drive today, let me know". I wanted to try the Turbo, but he couldn't find the keys So I had to settle for the Cab, the only 996 on the lot with a stick (sadly to say). It was a clear, hot day and the 996 was a great drive. And because Salesguy had little concern about preserving the P Zeros or even when he got back to the dealer, I got to drive the piss out of it. It was a hoot, but I remember thinking the 993 C2 was better.

EDIT:

"Who's the U-Boat commander?"


M

 

[GilesGuthrie]

How hard, exactly, were you allowed to drive the 911? Just out of curiosity, not meant to disprove any points or anything.

It was on a public road, so not insanely hard, but my friend, who owned it, was keen for me to experience it. I went as hard as was safe for a public road. Although since I got on so poorly with it, I don't feel that it was a particularly hard drive by my standards.

I think the bigger question is what 911 was it?

996 C2 Cab Tip.

I overtook a car through a fully-sighted bend, which should have been easy flat. Halfway through the pass, I had grave misgivings about whether the car had enough power to get me past in time, and the car felt curiously undirectable. The steering felt leaden, as if resistance was being used to compensate for feeling. And I can't really understand this because 911s are supposed to be so communicative, according to all the reviews you read. At the end of the day, I know my Impreza would have been faster and more communicative.

 

[AMG.]

911, because its so boringly perfect.

 

[Tommi]

Why? they can still sell more of them than they can make - and they make a lot of them. Selling 13,153 in North America alone in 2007.

By saying 'changing the design' im in fact moaning about the exterior, yes the 911 has a very unique shape - I personally love the rear flank, but im bored of the same stuff, in my opinion the 996 was the last 911 which looked good with 'the original' design.

Like I have already stated, what was once an amazing and exotic car to look at is now just an everyday occurance, there is nothing apart from the in your face wings and paintwork on the GT3 RS, GT2 and Turbo that catches your eye, the 997 and the 997 'facelift' are just truly boring cars.

Im not saying Porsche should kill off the 911 or necessarily change the mechanicals, but I certainly think it is time for a completely new exterior design.

 

[exigeracer]

Guess which car got more attention?

Wrong. It was actually the little British number parked 50 yards ahead of the two Germans.

 

[JCE]

Long after the R8 has stopped been the flavour of the moment, we'll still have the 911 and it will still be the bench mark that other manufacturers will strive to equal.

Besides, every time i see an R8 i have to do a double take to be sure it is an R8 and not a TT.

It doesn't matter that the 911 looks like the others, they are all fine sports cars. I just don't want my £80k sportscar to remind me of a hatchback in a party frock.
[/argument for arguments sake]

If you can't tell the difference between an R8 and TT then you CERTAINLY can't tell the difference between any 911, Beetle, Cockxster, or Cayman. I'll take the apparent (but incorrect) TT look-a-like.

I'd care to know too, because when I drove that '87 Carrera 3.2, it quite literally changed my life. For that matter, the owner told me to drive the hell out of it (in front of my parents!), and even I had a difficult time getting it to do exactly what I wanted.

I've driven a late 90's Turbo ('99) and it was one of those driving nirvanas that makes life worth living--it truely is. But it is overshadowed by the fact that the 911 is old, tired, and reaching the end of its life. Yes it is a stellar car and I'd sell your future children to have the base model--but the R8 is just sex. Its a refreshing entry to the sport coupe world, with a V10 it will most certainly change the way the Germans will do things. The 911 might either get axed for something new (not likely) or at least Porsche might update it to the point of being "almost new" and shove an F8 under the bonnet (boot in this case).

Guess which car got more attention?

Wrong. It was actually the little British number parked 50 yards ahead of the two Germans.

Sorry, but nothing made in the UK can compete with the Carrera GT. Nothing...and I love Astons.

 

[exigeracer]

Sorry, but nothing made in the UK can compete with the Carrera GT. Nothing...and I love Astons.

Out of the two pictured, the R8 got more attention. Out of the 4 cars in a row (360, CGT, R8, 360 Spyder) the R8 still got the most looks. Expanding it to the whole street, the Lotus Elise was getting some serious walk-arounds and cellphone shots compared to any of the others.

 

[JCE]

But...but...the CGT is god-incarnate!

 

[V1P3R]

Elise is actually a realistic buy for "poor" people too so that's why it's gonna get more looks.

 

[Tornado]

Considering the 997 is essentially 10 years old, all Porsche has to do is pull another 993-> 996 style jump.

 

[exigeracer]

Elise is actually a realistic buy for "poor" people too so that's why it's gonna get more looks.

Nobody knows that though.

Aaaaaaaand the R8 is looking like the advancing car in this vote. One hour left, so who knows, but I'm already uncorking a bottle of bubbly.

 

[V1P3R]

Nobody knows that though.

I'm sure some one mentioned it having a Toyota engine and they are pretty much sold on that even if they know nothing else about the car.

 

[YSSMAN]

Considering the 997 is essentially 10 years old, all Porsche has to do is pull another 993-> 996 style jump.

And call it what? The 999?