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toyota..which toyota engine is not good?
Best Engines in the World
- Thread starter Schumy
- 127 comments
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- 30
honda's the best?! their engines are made for economy boxes..all their engines have no torque..take the s2000 for example..sure it has a high hps number..but check out the torque also..and havin a car thats in it's weight range..that car aint goin no where anytime soon...you can just imagine a rich little kid in his s2000 cruising down the highway.."look mom, i hit 120 lbs of torque at 9000 rpms.."
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
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Originally posted by rollazn
Um Mclaren F1 ask Honda first but they refuse so they went to BMW so yeah Honda's the best, if thats one of hte reason you pick that BMW engines are great. I know they are and you said if Mclaren pick them they must be awesome well Mclaren pick Honda first so what doest that tell you!?
Here's an idea: maybe Honda declined the project because they didn't think they could meet the power and weight requirements. Ever thought of that?
///M-Spec
- 3,760
- rollazn
Actually i think Honda decline the project because they arent into making a car that noone would really buy alot, they make cars that sell, thats what i read. But um i would think Honda could meet the power to weight ratio requirement, but anyways they asked Honda for a reason because they know they can make it i guess why else would he go to Honda first, then BMW?
Honda's what I voted for...If Mazda was on the list I wouldn't even vote, because they shouldn't really be on the list....Mazda has the Rotors, and some ford aided v6's...that's it.....End of story..They're great engines
but to fit into the catagory of "who makes the best engines" you have to look at the track history of the company, what features have they incorperated that other companies have mimiced, what is their race history, what is their availibility, what is their practicality, what is their reliability, and what is their power output....."s why Honda gets my vote.
but to fit into the catagory of "who makes the best engines" you have to look at the track history of the company, what features have they incorperated that other companies have mimiced, what is their race history, what is their availibility, what is their practicality, what is their reliability, and what is their power output....."s why Honda gets my vote.
ShobThaBob
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- rosooftw
Honda's engines are very impressive, but they make them so small, and so weak...if they really tried to make a performance car with a high amount of HP, it could compete up there with ferraris...and yet they dont.
ShobThaBob
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- rosooftw
Limit of 280? Do your research bub, you have no clue what youre talking about.
- 3,760
- rollazn
Yes, all car in japan was rated at 280ps or 276hp, but cars such as GT-R, Supra, Evo, STi, ETc... all have over 300hp when dynoed. I have heard of the V12 Toyota Century it was made to be like a limo or something anyways look for more power in the future for japanese sport cars.
ShobThaBob
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- 2,651
- rosooftw
Dude, just because they all had that much, doesnt mean they all reeeally had that much. Many have been dynoed stock at way over 276hp. Hell, the 3000gt came out with 320hp stock.
- 673
But there is no 3000gt in Japan. It's called a GTO.
Oh, and CHECK OUT MY RESEARCH
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs4/web_archives/archives/1999/gto99/specification.html
Oh, and CHECK OUT MY RESEARCH
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs4/web_archives/archives/1999/gto99/specification.html
ShobThaBob
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- rosooftw
Wow, 3000gt, GTO, same thing. Kinda Toyota Prius/Toyota Echo. I cant read that crap either. But believe me when I say, there is no law that restricts japanese cars to 280hp. Its called a gentlemans agreement, and is no way legally binding.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
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Gordon Murray's choice of Honda made sense because they already had a relationship from supplying F1 engines for McLaren dating from 1983. The MP4/4 and MP4/5 was extremely successful and cemented McLaren and Murrary's relationship with Honda, not to mention winning several constructor's championships.
Thus in the late 80s, when it was time for Murrary to think about making his own supercar, Honda was a logical choice: McLaren already had a strong identity with being Honda powered. Translating this into the F1 road car made perfect sense.
Did Murray think at the time that Honda was simply the best engine maker in the world? I don't think there's sufficient evidence to conclude he did ---unless he actually said something in an interview I haven't seen. There are a number of other, practical and expeditious reasons for him to choose Honda.
FWIW, I don't pretend to know the exact reasons Honda turned down the F1 road car project. I suspect the reasons are more economical than anything else. Honda had no experience with a large displacement road car engine that matched Murray's specs. They probably concluded that it would cost more money than it was worth to do the development work and invest in the manufacturing capacity.
BMW was one of a dozen alternatives. But since Murray had worked with Paul Rosche when he and BMW was with Brahbam, this made sense too.
///M-Spec
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Yep. You'd have to be pretty naive to think Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc. actually comply with this agreement. The 3000GT/GTO, GT-R Skyline, Supra, 300ZX TT, etc. all made well over 276 at the crank.
The 'self-imposed limit' was contrived for marketing purposes; to avoid a horsepower war on paper... like the kind you're seeing today with German cars.
///M-Spec
ShobThaBob
Premium
- 2,651
- rosooftw
Thank you. I knew I wasnt a complete moron.
- 3,760
- rollazn
Well yeah Honda has no experience with large displacement road car i agree, but also i dont think honda would make cars that wont sell, like how many mclearns do they sell a year.. not that much. The only japanese manufactor i know of who have experience with large displacement is Toyota..
- 3,760
- rollazn
I know i just stated that in my post, that many of the japanese sport cars have power over 300, and you are correct that the 3000GT/GTO does have around that hp in the field of 320. Hell even the Subaru Impreza STi 22B Verison have been said to dynoed 350 stock!! That is quite amazing, other cars such as supra, skyline, sti, evo, gto etc have been rated at 280ps/276hp but the real power is about 50 horses more. Supra's and skylines is known for dynoing around 328hp that is amazing but the reason they dont list the real spec is because of the agreement between manufactors. Even though they make cars with higher hp they still rate it at 276hp. Now that the restriction or agreement is gone, japanese manufactors are jumping on hte gun making more power in there supercars. Like the GT-R and NSX.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Less than 100 road going McLaren F1s were made, though I don't remeber the exact number. Each one of them lost big money for McLaren Cars, Ltd. About 12 racing F1s were constructed for FIA GT and LeMans.
But like all supercar projects, the point was not to make money. In fact, from a historical standpoint, most supercars loose money. The only real reason to build one is for braggin rights and the subsequent 'halo' effect the car will have on your brand.
///M-Spec
well those honda engines are really good, honda just doesnt show off with the cars they sell. formula 1 cars with honda engines usually rank pretty high, and when honda was racing all out, they were usually second, and ferrari was first. im sure honda would of eventually been able to take on ferrari, and bmw was really not much a of a match for the two of them. mclaren was doing really good in f1 racing with honda engines at the time, but honda stopped selling their f1 engines to them. yea it made sense for mclaren to go with honda, but they also knew how good those honda engines were.
- 3,760
- rollazn
Well think of it R- Spec do you think they would make a 500hp when dynoed with a V8 and rate it at 280ps.. no it has to be some where in that neborhood you know, i mean its a different to have way more power then it is rated at like 320hp when rated at 280 but its totally different when tis 500hp rated at 280 so i guess they felt "restricted" to make a car with that much power. I may make no sense if i dont tell me
