"Best Hot Hatch" Honda Civic CRX/Si/Type-R Takes It

[Poverty]

A used Clio 182 goes for less than 8000€

Golf GTIs for less than that price have to be more than 10 years old.

AND THIS

Plus, the Clio 182 has been heralded as one of the best hot hatches of all time. Winner of Evo magazine's People's Performance Car of the Year, 2005, beating rivals such as the Lambo Gallardo.

Exactly golfs hold their value, a good investment they are (about as good as a car investment can get seeing as every car will lose money bar a few).

Renaults dont hold their value, and if you have a high speed accident in one (50/60mph) I wouldnt rate your chances.

 

[Keef]

(with numbers added)
1. What would you rather be in an accident in?
2. What would you rather drive on a 700mile trip?
3. What would you rather have as a motorway cruiser?
4. What would you rather have for wet/icy or generally tricky conditions?
5. What would you rather have if you have a family?
6. What would you rather have if you need a car to never let you down?
7. What would you rather have if you drive normally most of the time but like to put our foot down every now and again?

Poverty, I like your questions. I know they were directed at, eh, either L4S or Cracker, but I want to answer them truthfully comparing one of the Hondas to the GTI, just for fun.

1. The GTI, but I don't buy a car for safety
2. The Honda, because you never know who you'll meet on the highway
3. GTI
4. Ideally neither, but probably the GTI and probably not the Honda
5. GTI. But the Honda would be my play toy
6. Honda
7. Honda.

Well that was fun. They're neck-a-neck. The GTI is defintely more practical. I'd like someone--especially YSSMAN--to compare the two to my questions:

1. Which would you rather drive to make hot-rod fanboys feel like idiots?
2. Which would you rather drive to make other tuners feel like idiots?
3. Which would you rather run through a tight, slow autocross?
4. Which would you rather run on a real circuit course?
5. Which would you rather sport at night, during the rain on a twisty road? (R&D gave me the idea )
6. Which would you rather have to piss off your neighbors?
7. Which would you rather avoid a stray dog in?

Okay, I'll answer my questions. Hopefully they aren't too biased.

1. Honda, because it would work
2. GTI, because it'll run great without any tuning
3. GTI, because those massive tires probably have excellent low-speed grip
4. Honda, because of truly phenomenal high speed grip and handling
5. GTI, because it has safety nets
6. Honda, because it's loud and obnoxious
7. Honda. Quick reflexes pwn.

I didn't do all that to support Honda. Actually, it turns out I'd prefer the GTI in about half the situations. But my mind is more performance and sport oriented, with little tolerance for "being comfortable" and "being relaxed".

 

[Diego440]

they don't sell Clios where you live, do they?



and furthermore, are we talking resale values here? We're talking about overall sense of the car.
An Auto-Union Streamline '37 recently sold for 17 million dollars, and a new 911 is about 100,000... best resale value is the Auto Union, but I know I'd be driving the 911 instead.

 

[Dave A]

LOL

I thought the Golf GTI was 25% more expensive (and thats when saying the clio is 15k and not 17k.)

No the Clio is 25% cheaper, the Golf is 33% more expensive. 20,000 - 25% = 15,000, 15,000 + 33% = near enough 20,000.

Its not just about driving relaxed. Do you boy race everywhere everytime you drive? If the answer is no the Golf is the better car, and a DSG equipped 220hp golf GTI will beat a clio to 62mph, and stay infront till they hit top speed.

no, no and no, no really. The DSG equipped Golf does 60 in what 7.2 seconds. The Clio does 60 in 6.8, and it keeps pulling. It's also far better handling than the Golf on the road.

Also the golf is alot more stable at high speeds than the clio.

Do you have anysource at all or did you just pull that from behind your ear .

I wouldnt have the confidence to drive fast in the clio anyone as Id worry one of the wheels would fall off due to disasterous clio build quality.

Then your a nervous wreck, or a fool.

Point to point on UK roads the Golf is the faster car

No it's not, this has been proven in Evo, Autocar, TopGear and Car magazine, the Clio beats the Golf hands down in this aspect.

and seeing as you will lose 66% of the clios value in 3 years the golfs ownership in 3 years (if your gonna sell at that point) would be about the same.

What would be about the same? Money lost, no the Golf starts a 5k premium over the Clio, that's a big premium to take into account.

Clio 172's are currently cheap as chips, why do you not buy one, as you seem to rate them so highly and above that of the GTI.

Why don't I buy one, becaus eI don't need one. Just because I rate a car very highly doesn't mean I need to buy one. I have two cars, a cheap to run 306 diesel and a Bora V5.

Its all good and dandy in theoretical scenarios, but its not all about performance in real life.

No and that's where all hot hatches lose out to sensible cars.

 

[Poverty]

they don't sell Clios where you live, do they?



and furthermore, are we talking resale values here? We're talking about overall sense of the car.
An Auto-Union Streamline '37 recently sold for 17 million dollars, and a new 911 is about 100,000... best resale value is the Auto Union, but I know I'd be driving the 911 instead.

Im talking about what car is the best overall if you were to be a consumer.Ultimately the consumer decides whats best, and wheter the vehicle is a sucess or not.

FOR
Clios have always had a certain chic and remain popular used buys. All bar the performance models are cheap to run.
AGAINST
Lots of rivals are better to drive and the Clio’s rear seat and boot space are limited.

Reading the reader reviews I have now found out that the clio 172/182 isnt cheap to service at all, so that takes one thing it had over the Golf GTI away.

 

[Poverty]

no, no and no, no really. The DSG equipped Golf does 60 in what 7.2 seconds. The Clio does 60 in 6.8, and it keeps pulling. It's also far better handling than the Golf on the road.

The figures Im looking at says the clio does it in 7.1 secs, whilst the old leon curpa R which doesnt have DSG does it in 7.2 secs. The figures are taken from the same source. A 220hp Golf GTI with DSG should be about 7 secs or less.

Do you have anysource at all or did you just pull that from behind your ear .

Scenario:

On a motorway, nothing but open land for miles either side of you. The day happens to be rather windy or gusty, you are travelling at 120mph, whats gonna be more stable? The 1000kg clio or the 1350kg golf?

Then your a nervous wreck, or a fool.

lol I was exaggerating.

No it's not, this has been proven in Evo, Autocar, TopGear and Car magazine, the Clio beats the Golf hands down in this aspect.

I think we must have different ideas of what we consider to be a point to point race.

[/quote]
What would be about the same? Money lost, no the Golf starts a 5k premium over the Clio, that's a big premium to take into account.[/quote]

In 3 years you would lose about 5k on the golf. On the clio you could lose up to 8k. Another year of so and you lose a extra 2 grand. The golf loses must its must as soon as you drive it off the dealership, after that the depreciation rate slows and stabilises.

Why don't I buy one, becaus eI don't need one. Just because I rate a car very highly doesn't mean I need to buy one. I have two cars, a cheap to run 306 diesel and a Bora V5.

Exactly, the clio doesnt fill must peoples requirements of a hothatch. It falls short, far too short. The Golf GTI is a better proposition.

No and that's where all hot hatches lose out to sensible cars.

I consider a hothatch sensible if its a golf or focus and the consumer enjoys a sporting drive.


Also the brits here have brought up the Type-R VTEC issue. The renault engine is very similiar just less noticeable due to it being lighter, but either way if the CTR is to get down graded because of it then so should the clio. I have driven the 2.0 renault engine, not in 172hp tune but the 140 and you aint going nowhere fast untill you hit 4,500 rpm. Once again people take what british magazines say to heart too much. I wouldnt base my purchase depending on a magazine review, and 95% of the people in the world dont, or we would all be driving the same car.


as voted by british impreza drivers so far.

 View Poll Results: Whats the best hothatch?

Golf GTI 		1 	3.57%
Leon Cupra-R 		4 	14.29%
Honda Civic Type-R 	3 	10.71%
Focus ST 		7 	25.00%
Astra VXR 		2 	7.14%
Clio 172/182 		5 	17.86%
106 GTI 		4 	14.29%
205 GTI 		0 	0%
Fabia VRS 		0 	0%
Nissan Pulsar GTI-R  2  	7.14%

Voters: 28. You have already voted on this poll

 

[den brakke]

I voted for the Clio II Sport because the Clio Williams isn't nominated.

For the best estate, i'd say the Volvo 240 because of it's functionality.

 

[ExigeEvan]

The figures Im looking at says the clio does it in 7.1 secs, whilst the old leon curpa R which doesnt have DSG does it in 7.2 secs. The figures are taken from the same source. A 220hp Golf GTI with DSG should be about 7 secs or less.

You can't just guess and take it as fact. You have to include the fact the Golf is considerably heavier.

Scenario:

On a motorway, nothing but open land for miles either side of you. The day happens to be rather windy or gusty, you are travelling at 120mph, whats gonna be more stable? The 1000kg clio or the 1350kg golf?

But wait. If you won't allow the Clio's better track performance to be used because it won't be seen by the majority, why are you using stability at 120mph as an issue?

Exactly, the clio doesnt fill must peoples requirements of a hothatch. It falls short, far too short. The Golf GTI is a better proposition.

Where the hell did you pull that from!?

Also the brits here have brought up the Type-R VTEC issue. The renault engine is very similiar just less noticeable due to it being lighter, but either way if the CTR is to get down graded because of it then so should the clio. I have driven the 2.0 renault engine, not in 172hp tune but the 140 and you aint going nowhere fast untill you hit 4,500 rpm. Once again people take what british magazines say to heart too much. I wouldnt base my purchase depending on a magazine review, and 95% of the people in the world dont, or we would all be driving the same car.


as voted by british impreza drivers so far.

 View Poll Results: Whats the best hothatch?

Golf GTI 		1 	3.57%
Leon Cupra-R 		4 	14.29%
Honda Civic Type-R 	3 	10.71%
Focus ST 		7 	25.00%
Astra VXR 		2 	7.14%
Clio 172/182 		5 	17.86%
106 GTI 		4 	14.29%
205 GTI 		0 	0%
Fabia VRS 		0 	0%
Nissan Pulsar GTI-R  2  	7.14%

Voters: 28. You have already voted on this poll

So we shouldn't listen to professional car reviewers who have driven all the cars, but we should listen to individuals that haven't driven all of them!? Wow, that logic is astounding.


My point is, I've followed this debate quite closely, and quite frankly there are holes the size of Australia in your argument, Poverty.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well that was fun. They're neck-a-neck. The GTI is defintely more practical. I'd like someone--especially YSSMAN--to compare the two to my questions:

1. Which would you rather drive to make hot-rod fanboys feel like idiots?
2. Which would you rather drive to make other tuners feel like idiots?
3. Which would you rather run through a tight, slow autocross?
4. Which would you rather run on a real circuit course?
5. Which would you rather sport at night, during the rain on a twisty road? (R&D gave me the idea )
6. Which would you rather have to piss off your neighbors?
7. Which would you rather avoid a stray dog in?

Okay, lets see how things work out here. Given that here in America we do not have the RS Clio 182, nor the new Focus models, I'll do my best...

1) If you're talking about embarrassing "American-Power" guys with V8 muscle, the Ford Focus would probably be my pick. At least with the ST and RS there is a lot of extra power there to make her move, as with the other Europeans, they are more about handling than outright speed.

2) To one-up the "ricers," I'd have to go with the GTI here in America. Volkswagens and their drivers don't get a whole lot of respect in most circumstances, no matter how fast our cars may be. Plus, the GTI doesn't look the part, and to me, thats a good thing.

3) On a tight autocross, it is a tough vote. I'd want power and a controlled chassis, but not too much. The GTI and the RS Clio 182 come off as winners here, and given that I've never been around a Clio, a vote would have to go for the GTI once again. Newer models with the 2.0T and DSG would be great for the course, but I'd probably prefer an MKII, given its lighter weight and "natural" performance specs.

4) On a full circuit, it is again a tough choice. High power is going to be key here, along with a tight chassis, and well-spaced gears. Say I was at my local racetrack (Grattan Raceway) which has a long front straight with plenty of uneven turns, hills, etc it would probably come down to the GTI or the Focus. The Focus would presumably have a much faster lap given the higher power, but the GTI (based on my riding of the track) may fare better in the twisties in the back. I would suppose that the Focus may end up as my pick here, as the push towards power with a controlled chassis would work well.

5) Easily the GTI here. The combination of Volkswagen's drive for safety with all the airbags, computer tricks to save your butt, and the HID lamps, etc would make for a far-better car if you don't necessarily know your route.

6) Knowing that I'm not one who would want to "piss-off" the neighbors, it is a bit tougher for me to choose. But in terms of looks and sound, the Mazdaspeed 3 would probably be the best choice there.

7) Avoid a stray dog? Is that what you do over there? Any of these cars are going to have pretty quick reflexes, so I'm not sure how much it would matter. In terms of the "flickability," the Clio would probably win-out, but when it comes to actually having to stop or keep the car reeled in, the GTI is the obvious pick.

...So then I guess I'm a GTI guy, and the Focus comes in second here...

---

BTW: Anyone else care to nominate some Wagon/Estate models?

---

BBTW: Poverty, you can take comfort in knowing that the GTI fits your descriptions here in the US. The only other car listed here that even competes against it in America is the Mazda 3 MPS, as we do not have a Civic Hatch, nor do we have a Focus "Hot Hatch" any longer, as it is now a sedan-only model.

 

[Danny]

Oh dear. Where do I even begin to correct this?

The figures Im looking at says the clio does it in 7.1 secs, whilst the old leon curpa R which doesnt have DSG does it in 7.2 secs. The figures are taken from the same source. A 220hp Golf GTI with DSG
should be about 7 secs or less.

However, let's not forget the 38hp advantage the Golf and Leon have. Even though the Clio is lighter, 38hp is a huge difference with small cars.

In 3 years you would lose about 5k on the golf. On the clio you could lose up to 8k. Another year of so and you lose a extra 2 grand. The golf loses must its must as soon as you drive it off the dealership, after that the depreciation rate slows and stabilises.

Since the Golf was a good 5k more expensive to begin with, that's a large chasm for depreciation to overcome. Don't forget, the cheaper the car is, the less money you can lose on it.

Exactly, the clio doesnt fill must peoples requirements of a hothatch. It falls short, far too short. The Golf GTI is a better proposition.

WHAT??!?!?!?! Now this is what drove me to reply to this. The Clio 182, one of the greatest hot hatches of all time is greatly recognised to be just that.
Most people would imagine hot hatches to be-
Cheap
Nippy
Fun

The Clio covers all these excellently. Certainley mich more than the Golf does. It ain't cheap, and although it's quick enough, it won't bring a smile to your face like the Clio will.

I consider a hothatch sensible if its a golf or focus and the consumer enjoys a sporting drive.

Personally, I'd consider them to be part of the small family car genre. I agree they're hatchbacks, but they're bigger than average.

Also the brits here have brought up the Type-R VTEC issue. The renault engine is very similiar just less noticeable due to it being lighter, but either way if the CTR is to get down graded because of it then so should the clio. I have driven the 2.0 renault engine, not in 172hp tune but the 140 and you aint going nowhere fast untill you hit 4,500 rpm. Once again people take what british magazines say to heart too much. I wouldnt base my purchase depending on a magazine review, and 95% of the people in the world dont, or we would all be driving the same car.

I trust you've driven all the nominees enough to make an informed decision that the Clio isn't in the same league as the Golf?

Im talking about what car is the best overall if you were to be a consumer.Ultimately the consumer decides whats best, and wheter the vehicle is a sucess or not.

Exactly.

However, as an overall view, the Golf has just as many weaknesses as the Clio does.

Reading the reader reviews I have now found out that the clio 172/182 isnt cheap to service at all, so that takes one thing it had over the Golf GTI away.

Firstly, the Golf has a lot on the Golf. For my money, it's better at being a hot hatch. Secondly, the Clios are not absurdly expensive to service, as I've been reliably informed by the proprietor of R.M. Motors, Commonside, Batley.

[/rant]

 

[Sakiale]

I voted for GTI.

Nominate Buick Roadmaster... gobs of torque with classic style. The only iconic American station wagon besides a Ford Woody.

Sorry for absecne of picture, i dont know how to copy+paste URLs on a MacBook (Sage?)

 

[Leonidae]

boys boys boys, if you want to keep nagging about the best sides of clio and Golf and how they differ, make another thread.. don't turn this innocent poll into flame arena..

 

[Dave A]

No ones flaming anyone Leonidae, don't worry about that , this thread is the place for debating the merits of your choice.

The figures Im looking at says the clio does it in 7.1 secs, whilst the old leon curpa R which doesnt have DSG does it in 7.2 secs. The figures are taken from the same source. A 220hp Golf GTI with DSG should be about 7 secs or less.

2001 Autocar 0-100-0 test clocked the Renault Clio Sport 172 doing 0-60 in 6.64 seconds.

Scenario:

On a motorway, nothing but open land for miles either side of you. The day happens to be rather windy or gusty, you are travelling at 120mph, whats gonna be more stable? The 1000kg clio or the 1350kg golf?

That would dependd if the wind was coming form the side, behind or you were driving into it. It would also depend on how the wind flows over the car more than it would depend on the weight. That is a question you can't answer and I'm not going to attempt to answer since I don't have the Cd figures for the sides of the cars, and neither do you.

I think we must have different ideas of what we consider to be a point to point race.

Point to point, start here and finish over there, be it a short trip or a long one, that's point to point. The Clio is the faster and better handling car.

In 3 years you would lose about 5k on the golf. On the clio you could lose up to 8k. Another year of so and you lose a extra 2 grand.

So that leaves you out of pocket by at least £2,000. Like I said the Golf costs more even in the long run. The Clio won't drop another 8k in another 3 years, it levels out just not as fast as the Golf does.

Exactly, the clio doesnt fill must peoples requirements of a hothatch. It falls short, far too short. The Golf GTI is a better proposition.

I don;t know where you got the "exactley" from, I don't need or at this point in time want a hot hatch at all. I have the Bora, which is faster than I need it to be. I didn't say I didn't need a Clio because another hot hatch would fill my needs better, I just don't need a hot hatch period be it a Leon Cupra R (which I do really like, just not for £20k), Golf GTi (which I also like, but not for £20k) or a Clio sport which would be a far more tempting purchase since it's so much more affordable.

I consider a hothatch sensible if its a golf or focus and the consumer enjoys a sporting drive.

Rather limited there, if you want sensible don't go for a hot hatch, the whole idea of a hot hatch is to provide thrills, the Clio does that better than all the others in the poll. The Golf does it, but not as well as the Clio and it also costs a lot more. The Leon, same as the Golf but not quite as thrilling to drive acording to reviews. More thrilling to look at imo but the reviews are probably right, VW arn't going to undercut the Golf with a car that beats it in every way.

Also the brits here have brought up the Type-R VTEC issue.

The Type-R wasn't being crticised for it having VTec, it was because you needed to be redlining it almost all the time to get it to do anything, you can drive the Clio happily around town at low revs, and it'll comply. The Type-R will spit in your face and ask for more revs.

The renault engine is very similiar just less noticeable due to it being lighter, but either way if the CTR is to get down graded because of it then so should the clio. I have driven the 2.0 renault engine, not in 172hp tune but the 140 and you aint going nowhere fast untill you hit 4,500 rpm.

What year omdel are we talking about here because the only 2.0 currently on sale is the sport 197? And if your not talking about it being in a Clio then the chances are it's not only going to be running with less power, but it's also going to be in a different car. Theres a hell of a lot you can do to an engine to tweak and change the characteristics. Not even the engine itself.

Once again people take what british magazines say to heart too much. I wouldnt base my purchase depending on a magazine review, and 95% of the people in the world dont, or we would all be driving the same car.

I won't, I'll base it on reviews, personal opinions and a test drive. People drive what they like personally that fits into their budget and needs, which is not always what is best.

as voted by british impreza drivers so far.

 View Poll Results: Whats the best hothatch?

Golf GTI         1     3.57%
Leon Cupra-R         4     14.29%
Honda Civic Type-R     3     10.71%
Focus ST         7     25.00%
Astra VXR         2     7.14%
Clio 172/182         5     17.86%
106 GTI         4     14.29%
205 GTI         0     0%
Fabia VRS         0     0%
Nissan Pulsar GTI-R  2      7.14%

Voters: 28. You have already voted on this poll

Well that just confirms people don't seem to rate the Golf that highly for a hot hatch, the Leon's doing better than I'd have expected, the Focus deserves attention thugh imo not to be in the lead, and the Clio is only two votes behind.

 

[Diego440]

Anyone else care to nominate some Wagon/Estate models?

Would the Jeep Wagoneer go into the Estate or the SUV rank?

 

[slimer90210]

My wagon nominations....

70-71 Chevy Wagon



Mid 60's Chevy II Wagon



Late 60's Buick Estate



I also like the Tri-5 Nomads, the Dodge Magnum, and the early 90's Buick Roadmaster.

And then there are these...

 

[toyomatt84]

The Wagon choice is simple, for me. It'd definitely have to be...

Nissan Stagea

Autech GT-R Version

Well, it's hard to see why one wouldn't want a Wagon version of the Skyline. Sporting the same RB25DET and even the RB26DETT's, this wagon is a serious sleeper. AWD and a rather intense traction control system, that Mine's proved to be more of a use than most any other on the market, make this car a serious beast. The majority of aftermarket components that the Skyline can take advantage of, the Stagea can as well. Some people even swap the front clip for that of a Skyline, and pull off the "true" GT-R look.

I don't think I need to say much more, than I'd love to own one, for the sheer sake of having high horsepower potential without needing an engine swap.

 

[Tornado]

The figures Im looking at says the clio does it in 7.1 secs, whilst the old leon curpa R which doesnt have DSG does it in 7.2 secs. The figures are taken from the same source. A 220hp Golf GTI with DSG should be about 7 secs or less.

Autocar took the Clio 182 to 60 in 6.3 seconds. They took the GTi to 60 in 6.5 seconds.

Scenario:

On a motorway, nothing but open land for miles either side of you. The day happens to be rather windy or gusty, you are travelling at 120mph, whats gonna be more stable? The 1000kg clio or the 1350kg golf?

Scenario:
On a motorway, with a strong gust, what's gonna be more stable?
A Suzuki Samurai (942kg) or a Caterham Seven SuperlightR500 (460kg)?

Exactly, the clio doesnt fill must peoples requirements of a hothatch. It falls short, far too short. The Golf GTI is a better proposition.

Except it is only a hot hatch because it has a powerful engine. The Renault 182 was the last true hot hatch (or perhaps the Peugoet 106, unless you count the new Fiat Panda 100), and the Golf GTi hasn't been a "real" hot hatch in the original sense since 1992.
And either way, l4s's point had to do with the fact that for him, a hot hatch would be impractical. Which would be the case most of the time, I'm sure.

as voted by british impreza drivers so far.

View Poll Results: Whats the best hothatch?

Golf GTI 1 3.57%
Leon Cupra-R 4 14.29%
Honda Civic Type-R 3 10.71%
Focus ST 7 25.00%
Astra VXR 2 7.14%
Clio 172/182 5 17.86%
106 GTI 4 14.29%
205 GTI 0 0%
Fabia VRS 0 0%
Nissan Pulsar GTI-R 2 7.14%

Voters: 28. You have already voted on this poll

Yes. The famous "What do Impreza Owners Think?" Clause. I also like how it puts the Clio 182 far out in front of the Golf GTi.

 

[YSSMAN]

Would the Jeep Wagoneer go into the Estate or the SUV rank?

Nein! Das ist für das "Bestes SUV“ Gewinde!

...And Slimer, you're going to need to just pick one there...

 

[TheCracker]

I dont get your way of thinking. This is about the best hot hatch. Which one would you want to buy and own not which one is the best on the racetrack. Thats only one part of owning the car, and seeing as most people dont track their car its pointless. Point to point a 220hp Golf GTI will beat a clio 172/182 point to point whilst being relaxed.

Who mentioned the race track? - This is all about enjoyment on the open road. Even if the latest Golf was quicker from A to B - it's the Clio driver who will have had the most satisfying journey - which is the whole reason for having a hot hatch.

1. What would you rather be in an accident in?
2. What would you rather drive on a 700mile trip?
3. What would you rather have as a motorway cruiser?
4. What would you rather have for wet/icy or generally tricky conditions?
5. What would you rather have if you have a family?
6. What would you rather have if you need a car to never let you down?
7. What would you rather have if you drive normally most of the time but like to put our foot down every now and again?

Great questions 👍 - and the Golf GTi would surely win hands down - if this was a........ 'Best all round hatchback with a big engine and a chassis set-up leaning towards sporting' thread.

But it's not, it's a 'Best Hot Hatch' thread and the Clio is universally concidered the best of the best.


As for my estate nomination:

I give you the Lynx Eventer



http://www.lynxmotors.co.uk/eerf.htm

 

[Specialized]

What would you rather be in an accident in?

The Clio because you would atleast have a smile on your face before the accident happened

What would you rather drive on a 700mile trip?

The Clio becuase every single mile would be fun and engaging

What would you rather have as a motorway cruiser?

The Clio, you never drive motorways so that you don't miss out on the fun you could be having on a B road instead

What would you rather have for wet/icy or generally tricky conditions?

The Clio, I just wouldnt drive it in the wet or on ice

What would you rather have if you have a family?

The Clio, The family could have just as much fan as me then

What would you rather have if you need a car to never let you down?

The Clio, any car can go wrong. You just have to give them a bit of TLC and they will usually be quite reliable

What would you rather have if you drive normally most of the time but like to put our foot down every now and again?

The Clio, even driving normally would be fun and when you do go for it the smile on your face will be a lasting one

If all the above questions really were what i was using as a guide to buy a car anyway i wouldnt choose a hot hatch, i think i would go and buy a previous generation BMW 5 Series or similar

I will admit the Golf is a good overall car but it isn't the best Hot Hatch. The Clio has raised the benchmark to quite a spectacular level, like i said before i have never read a bad review on it or even heard about anybody talking down about the car until i read this thread.

Spec....

 

[ExigeEvan]

As for my estate nomination:

I give you the Lynx Eventer



http://www.lynxmotors.co.uk/eerf.htm

Not to start a whole new discussion, but isn't that more of a shooting brake? Not that I really see any reason why estates and shooting brakes can't be in the same category.

My idea of a shooting brake is a coupe converted to an almost estate like shape.

 

[TheCracker]

It is a shooting brake. But a shooting brake is essentially just an estate version of a coupe rather than a saloon.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah The Craker is right, a shooting barke is essentially an estate, I was thinking of nominating the Aston V8 Vantage shotting brake, I really do love that car, but the whole price of the thing and the fact it's not really practial mean as much as I love it I can't justify nominating it as the best.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yeah I didn't think for a second it would be as debatable as 'hatch backs V coupe's with hatchbacks' but I felt like being pernickety.

 

[TheCracker]

Oops! - forgot about price, guess you can rule the Eventer out then (and the Audi RS6 & Nissan Stagea that others have posted too)

 

[toyomatt84]

Oops! - forgot about price, guess you can rule the Eventer out then (and the Audi RS6 & Nissan Stagea that others have posted too)

Incorrect. When brand new, a Nissan Stagea would have cost in the ballpark of $28,000 AUD, which is about $22,000 USD. It fits well in the range provided.

 

[TheCracker]

Incorrect. When brand new, a Nissan Stagea would have cost in the ballpark of $28,000 AUD, which is about $22,000 USD. It fits well in the range provided.

Maybe so, but i guess that price is for the 2ltr base model - is that the world's best estate?

 

[toyomatt84]

Maybe so, but i guess that price is for the 2ltr base model - is that the world's best estate?

Well, considering the Autech GT-R went for less than $45,000 AUD ($35,424 USD), I'd say yes it is the best estate. And, no, the $28,000 AUD model wasn't 2L, it was 2.5L.

 

[Poverty]

lol I will do a proper reply later to the points you guys have raised, but looking at who has voted for the clio is it just me or has anyone noticed that every voter was british? I mean it must say something. I think you guys are letting the mags sway your decision a little too much.


Anyway heres an update on how the impreza forum guys who have voted. (remeber that many of these guys will have had experience with several of the vehicles in the poll )

 View Poll Results: Whats the best hothatch?
Golf GTI 		10 	9.52%
Leon Cupra-R 		16 	15.24%
Honda Civic Type-R 	9 	8.57%
Focus ST 		18 	17.14%
Astra VXR 		6 	5.71%
Clio 172/182 		15 	14.29%
106 GTI 		9 	8.57%
205 GTI 		17 	16.19%
Fabia VRS 		2 	1.90%
Nissan Pulsar GTI-R 	3 	2.86%

Voters: 105. You have already voted on this poll

I see that the Leon cupra is AHEAD of the clio by one vote. And seeing as the Golf GTI and Leon are near enough the same vehicle if I had left the Golf or leon out, I think a VAG chassied vehicle would have several more votes than the clio, and that forum has had plenty of clio sport owners.

Great questions - and the Golf GTi would surely win hands down - if this was a........ 'Best all round hatchback with a big engine and a chassis set-up leaning towards sporting' thread.

Just had to reply to this now.

1. The Golf GTI and the Clio 172/182 BOTH use a 2Litre engine. They both have the same size displacement!!!!!!!

But it's not, it's a 'Best Hot Hatch' thread and the Clio is universally concidered the best of the best.

Not going by this poll it isnt, and by the poll I posted on another forum they seem to agree that the clio isnt the best.

Also for those who say that hot htaches arent meant to be practical what are you guys thinking? The whole point of the hothatch is to be a practical performance car

 

[Tornado]

lol I will do a proper reply later to the points you guys have raised, but looking at who has voted for the clio is it just me or has anyone noticed that every voter was british? I mean it must say something. I think you guys are letting the mags sway your decision a little too much.

I'm American and I realise that Clio 182 is a better hot hatch than the Golf GTi has been for over 13 years.

1. The Golf GTI and the Clio 172/182 BOTH use a 2Litre engine. They both have the same size displacement!!!!!!!

And the Golf is turbocharged. So, your point?

Not going by this poll it isnt, and by the poll I posted on another forum they seem to agree that the clio isnt the best.

Which is all well and good, but the cars that beat it aren't in this poll, barring the Focus.