"Best Hot-Hatch" Round One: VOTE Now!

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VOTE FOR BEST HOT-HATCH

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YSSMAN

YSSMAN

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After the mess that was the nomination thread, we have moved on to the preliminary voting group. That means that there is only one vote per-person, and I would suggest voting for a "reasonable" option here, not just the one you nominated. If that was the case, we wouldn't get anywhere.

After this thread, the top five will move on for the final decision, and then we will begin nominations for the next round (probably for Wagon/Estate vehicles).

***And please, please explain your vote. It helps those who aren't sure, and it makes for interesting debate!***

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All-in-all, I have to vote the way I nominate in this case. The VW GTI has always been, and always will be the ultimate hot-hatch. At best, the VW started it all those years ago, and has kept to tradition quite well over the years. Modest power with a fun chassis makes a great car, and the pricing isn't half bad either. Considering that I can pick up a GTI 5-door with the DSG for less than $25K, I'd almost consider that a steal in some ways.

Okay, it it's fifth-generation, its a little porky. Some people don't care much for the styling either. But when it gets Top Gear's Car of the Year in 2004, and has been on Car and Driver's 10-best this year (the A3, essentially the same car had it the year before), you know it is a great car.
 
I have to give it to the CRX. Its demise is constantly referenced as the day Honda went soft in America, it was a sporty little car with good reflexes. And it was also on Car and Driver's 10 Best, twice in 1985 and 1988; Motor Trend's Import Car of the Year in 1984 and, unless I'm mistaken was on one of Automobile Magazine's 10-Years in Retrospect issues in 1996.
 
The CRX was indeed a good car. I liked the old CRX Si from the early '90s, as it was a pretty quick, efficient little car. But compared to the GTI, it was a rattle-box, much the same story today when you compare the two. I prefer the German sense of "solidity" with the GTI, and although the CRX Si may have been "nimble," so too was the GTI. Plus, it wasn't likely to kill you... And IMO, the GTI always has looked better...

(PLAID SEATS! PLAID SEATS! PLAID SEATS!)
 
Wow, this is a difficult choice. I haven't voted yet, but I'm stuck on the Ford Focus (because of the SVT and RS models) the Honda Civic (because of the CRX and EF, EG, and EK hatchs) and the VW GTI.

The Focus really was a good car. The SVT made Car and Driver's 10 Best list a couple times, because it was a fantastic handler and drivers car, though it wasn't too powerful. I got the ball rolling for modern US domestic sport compacts. I just saw an old Top Gear review of the RS, and it was pretty nice. Over 210 horses from a 2.0L turbo four. Not bad, though they didn't say how much torque it had. It was also a superb handler, beating an EP Civic Type-R around their track. But it had a horrible interior, and torque steer aplenty. And it was too quiet.

Everyone loves VTEC. A Civic Si and Type-R are great fun, with their high revving 1.6 and 1.8L engines. Eight-thousand rpm. Often less than 2600 lbs. Over 200 horses in the Type-R, and torque steer was minimal because the engines don't have any torque, but the light weight solves that problem. I think the Civics are more pure "sportscars" than the Focus or GTI. Oh, and the Civic is tuned easier than your old Chevy. Not only can you take your 110 hp EG Civic DX and drop a B18C from an Integra GSR in there, but you can go a step further and plop an Integ Type-R head on top. Then you can tune the thing to over 220 horsepower. Now that's a N/A 1.8L! Combine that with super light weight and great suspension tuning, wheels, and tires, and you can have yourself a genuine Mustang-eating race car for the street. It even vibrates, rattles, and shakes like a race car! Oh, and the sound of VTEC........:D

The GTI, by comparison, seems like a luxury car more than anything. The original was hardcore, but I've never seen one. They were putting big, heavy, torquey V6s in them for a while. They didn't rev much beyond 6000 rpm and just sounded so "German". There were some that couldn't take a corner if it tried, and even some that barely passed as performance versions. The new GTI is mostly different. It has a 2.0 also, turboed like the old RS Focus. It makes 200 hp and churns 200 lb-ft at a typical German-diesely 2500 rpm. It handles quite nice. It has a gorgeous interior (especially those plaind seats ;)). The wheels look terrible, but we'll be changing those anyway. I quite like the styling, but I don't know if I'd rather have the 3- or 5-door. And I'm sure there's plenty of tuning options out there.

EDIT: Okay, I've read my post, and I've made my decision. As I was writing I realized I couldn't come up with much that I truly loved about the GTI. I've never driven one, but I can imagine--electronic throttle, electronic steering, light cable shifter, high seating position. I threw that choice out. Then I realized that, well, I jsut don't dig the Focus much either. They never really caught on, and they have no heritage, though they are great rally cars and really were good performers. Then I thought, "You know, I'm going to sound like a Honda fanboy because I own a Del Sol." As it turns out, I don't really care if my cousin's Cobalt S/C has over 200 hp, with his intake and whiny loud supercharger. I don't care that it has a great factory stereo or that it's smooth, quiet, rattle free, and waterproof. I'd rather have a loud, obnoxious, rich-burning VTEC devil under my hood! Really, there's no substitute for that noise, that vibration, the mechanical throttle linkage, the perfect rev-matches, Honda transmission, and the nice big steel rod that is your shift linkage. There's a weird phenomenon when your reverse in these Hondas, though, that the steering wheel stays where you put it, causing unintentional bumps and scrapes. Ahh, well. I have a buddy with a tuned EG hatch that puts down ~180 hp to the wheels and only ~135 lb-ft. It's quicker than the previously mentioned Cobalt S/C. And it handles like it's on freaking rails! What's cooler than getting a noise ordinance ticket while cruising the speed limit? Eh?

I love Honda.
 
To quote Csaba Csere from the original 1985 Car & Driver article on the infamous Goes Like Hell Omni, "The load 'n **** it, finger in the socket, full time pocket rocket."

The turbo Omni GLH was actually quicker 0-60 than a 1985 Corvette, and posted skidpad and slalom numbers that embarass many of TODAY's compacts. While its ride was punishing (giant Goodyear Gatorbacks and state-of-the-IMSA-art solid suspension do that) and the car had no creature comforts (to save on weight, you know, including optional radio delete), this was hot-hatch taken to its ludicrous extreme.

And that was before Carroll really got going with the intercooled and Garrett blown GLH-S (Goes Like Hell Somemore).

Of course, I'm also biased. Three n/a GLH's have come through my family, with autocross, showroom stock, and street race wins all to their credit.

But hey, there's no denying there's something inherently awesome about the upraised middle-finger to the compact establishment that the GLH represents, especially since that spirit was revived by it's bad-to-the-bone little brother, the SRT-4.

85glh1-1.jpg
 
Wow, well written and great car, LK. I never knew much about Omnis, so I never considered voting for it. All I knew is that it was a serious underdog and spanked some serious ass. I can respect your decision, big time! And it's too bad the Neon SRT-4 wasn't a hatchback or might've gotten my vote.
 
My vote: Mazdaspeed 3.
Why? Well, as Car and Driver said, "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 — redline is 6700 — and flat-shift through second and third (which means don’t lift at all — the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).
“Don’t worry,” the engineers said, “it won’t break.”".

That yeilded 5.8 seconds to 60, with a quarter mile passing in 14.4 seconds @ 99 MPH. It's got over 260 HP and a bit more torque, looks awesome, and seats five.
 
My vote goes to the Golf Gti. Not for the new one, but the original and the Mk2. It was the original hot hatch and for 15 years it was at or near the top of the tree. It conquered racing circuits and rally stages around the globe and they are still popular today. It gets my vote purely from the point of view that it started the trend and started it very, very well and is staging a revolution with the Mk5 after the forgettable Mk3 and 4 Gtis.

I've only ever driven my Dads Mk1 Gti 1.8 but it really is a great car to drive. It's loud and rattly but the exhaust has a nice note (something many "performance" cars these days lack) and it pulls hard through the gears. The handling is great fun, huge amounts of grip to exploit and direct steering with lots of feel which tells you exactly when you're pushing too hard. I'm not sure how it would compare to a newer car dynamically but it has character which is something the slightly clinical cars of today lack.
 
Dodge Omni GLH Turbo < Sunbeam Lotus

146hp/Front Wheel Drive/Turbo < 155hp/Rear Wheel Drive/Naturally aspirated

:p​

Seriously, a Esprit engined, rear wheel driven, lightweight hatchback with a well sorted chassis and all this in 1979 - what's not to vote for?
 
Poverty
TBH I dont see how this made it in the hot hatch category....
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Well it has a hatch and its certainly hot, being the Trophy version a damn sight better than the original. Its a big big in my personal opinion, but its around the same size as the Octavia so why not.

For me well I stand by my original nomination, the Clio 182 Trophy is simply in a class of its own, I use my original nomination post as justification.

Scaff
I'm going for very specific here, the finest version of the best hot hatch ever made.

The Renaultsport Clio 182 Trophy, the final version of the previous generation Clio.

Now many 'newer' hot hatches may beat it in terms of power and 'on-paper' figures, many may look better (the Alfa 147 certainly does, but that will break down before you get to the end of the road) and the driving position may be too high.

However all of that pales into insignificance when it comes to driving it, faster in the real world than a Clio V6, faster and more involving on real world roads than its more powerful competition. Mainly down to a realisation that power is not everything, with one of the finest chassis on the market and in Trophy guise a set of remote reservoir Sachs racing dampers fitted, its ability to link driver, car and road is almost second to none. No wonder one finished 3rd in the Evo car of the year 2005, being beaten by the Ford GT (1st) and Ferrari F430 (2nd) is certainly no shame.

Now some may claim that the likes of the Golf are better all-round cars and more comfortable to drive day-to-day and have more toys, better A/C and Sat/Nav, but quite frankly who cares?

This is the best Hot Hatch we are talking about here, not the 'best-quite-sporting, but-ultimately-compromised-by-being-a-bit-too-soft-at-the-edges-small-car'; Hot Hatches were always meant to be the European working man's performance toy and involvement is the key here and the 182 Trophy gives you that in spades.

Not forgetting that with only 525 or so of this model made and a price tag of &#163;15,500 it not only undercuts almost all rivals, but is better equipped where it matters (name me one other hot hatch with race spec dampers), more exclusive and at a bargain price.

No contest really.

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The Golf and A3 may get all the awards in C&D, but I honestly don't think that would be true if they got the same toys to play with as we do in Europe.


Regards

Scaff
 
Oh hell dont tell me the octavia is in this too! Thats not a hot hatch. If the octavia's in it then we might as well have had the cosworth RS in this vote too.
 
No not really, the Octavia is a hatchback based on a lesser hatchback, the Escort RS isn't based on a Lesser hatchback, the normal Escrots were on a different platform. Regardless of your opinion of the Octavia being a hot hatch or not, it's a massively different car to the Excort RS.

As for my choice in the poll, I went with the Clio 182. It doesn't have to be fastest or most powerful to be viewed as the best.
 
Yeah but the octavia isnt really seen as a traditional hot hatch.

On another forum I visit there is a currently a thread about "the worst next car you ever bought" and the clio 172/182 has featured 4 times in only 2 pages. I think the 2 peugeots should be getting alot more respect.
 
And the reasons given? Certainly isn't because of how the car drives or performs.
 
Poverty
Yeah but the octavia isnt really seen as a traditional hot hatch.

On another forum I visit there is a currently a thread about "the worst next car you ever bought" and the clio 172/182 has featured 4 times in only 2 pages. I think the 2 peugeots should be getting alot more respect.
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The two Pug's are great cars, but the 106 should have been the Rallye in my opinion. The 205 GTi was always a amazing car, but even in its day many rated the Clio Williams as a better car and the current breed of Hot Hatches have moved the game on, and we are voting for Best Hot Hatch here rather that best remembered or respected Hot Hatch.

As far as the "the worst next car you ever bought" bit, well its hard to comment without knowing the context, so I can only asume you are talking about reliability (and if thats the case it highly amusing you then went on to talk about an '80s Pug), which once again is not really what we are discussing here.

Regards

Scaff
 
Wellthree of the people went from a vts or pug 106 to the clio and they said it was a mistake.

But then again alot of people on that forum rate the car very highly, so i cguess you either love it or not so much.

Some people also say that the 172 cup is better than all other variations for some reason? But then again we should just count all the variations as one vehicle for this vote.
I think the best hothatch performance, reliability and build quality wise is between the seat leon cupra and the CTR.
 
The Leon Cupra is a very good car, the Civic Type R yes, when your trying to feel like a race driver. The problem here is that even when your not in the mood or position to hammer it through the revs and drive it like a mad man the car still wants you to. It's not a good car to drive to work in imo. The Leon Cupra though is a very good choice, but it doesn't take over the Renaultsport Clio imo.
 
Poverty
Wellthree of the people went from a vts or pug 106 to the clio and they said it was a mistake.

But then again alot of people on that forum rate the car very highly, so i cguess you either love it or not so much.

Some people also say that the 172 cup is better than all other variations for some reason? But then again we should just count all the variations as one vehicle for this vote.
I think the best hothatch performance, reliability and build quality wise is between the seat leon cupra and the CTR.
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The 172 Cup was a very stripped out version of the 172, they removed a lot of the sound proofing, the Air-con, thinner rear glass and the ABS. While a lot lighter car the last part was the love/loath part, as without ABS it could prove a bit of a handful on the road. A large number of the 172 Cups ended doing duty in hillclimb and club level racing. Most reviewers rate the Trophy as a better car, it is slightly heavier, but it does have a far better suspension set-up.

The Leon Cupra is not bad, but I have to go with L4S, its not in the same division performance wise as the Clio. Nor is the CTR, the last version being a bloody anoying car to drive, as you had to have the damn thing on the red-line almost permenatly to do it justice. Its better on the track than on the road, the problem is the Clio is still better than it in both environments.

Regards

Scaff
 
Civic Si here. Just seeing how well the can do in autocross, notably the EG-6s I've seen run around here, persuaded me.

The fact that the Toyota I nominated was never in the US is a large part of me not voting on it.
 
Poverty
TBH I dont see how this made it in the hot hatch category....
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Explain please.

It's a sub-20k hatchback with impressive speed and handling capabilities.
 
ultrabeat
Explain please.

It's a sub-20k hatchback with impressive speed and handling capabilities.
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a hot hatch is usually small. Dunno but when I think of a megane I think of it as a saloon car similiar to the laguna.I suppose if the focus and astra are hot hatches then so is the renault now that I think about it. Apologies.

Once the 1st round is done I will be plotting renaults downfall however :sly:
 
Poverty
a hot hatch is usually small. Dunno but when I think of a megane I think of it as a saloon car similiar to the laguna.I suppose if the focus and astra are hot hatches then so is the renault now that I think about it. Apologies.

Once the 1st round is done I will be plotting renaults downfall however :sly:
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Bring it on! :D

...and in other news...
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[/voteharvest]
 

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