Better FPS-What are you willing to give up for it?

S

SynthManiac75

41
United States
WV
Provst01
It is no secret that there are many GT fans who are not pleased with the frame-rates in GT6. My question to those who want better frame-rates is "What are you willing to give up for a more balanced visual performance in GT6?"

So many seem to forget that this game is running on a console gaming system (a pretty dated one as well). Keep in mind that when it comes to racing titles (good ones too), they can seriously tax a consoles resources. I honestly think that peoples expectations from these console titles is a bit unrealistic. Kaz is clearly trying to give the best graphical experience he can, but I think that's really hurting this title.

Truth is that you cannot have super high quality graphics (or close to photo-realistic), both inside and outside the car (especially at the same time), an extensive physics engine, tot notch lighting with good shadows, multiple cars on the track at the same time, and all running at 60 fps on a console like the PS-3. They just do not have the hardware to do this. With a console it is all about balance and compromise. Some things you have to take a hit on to improve on another aspect of a title. It is very evident this is the case considering what Kaz did to improve the FPS at Bathurst.

IMO, graphics aren't the most important thing to me with a console racing title. It's physics and SOUND. I honestly think that if graphics are so important to Kaz and others.., then Kaz should seriously consider lowering the FPS for GT6. This game clearly has amazing graphics, but the visual experience is very disappointing IMO due to Kaz's priorities at the moment.

There has got to be a compromise somewhere folks. We all just have to come to an agreement as to what we're willing to compromise on. Perhaps a poll would be appropriate to really get an idea of what players are willing to accept and not accept.
 
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I think more user options would make a lot of people happy. Having some nice anti aliasing in 720p mode would really help as I think this should have been their target res considering the performance issues. I would rather it be locked at 30 fps than fluctuate as it does now. I am used to it which I never thought would happen. I am very sensitive to frame rate and skipped gt5 over what I was reading and played Forza instead because of the locked 60fps update. I don't care about night racing or rain myself. It's nice and all but not if it drags the game engine through the mud.
 
I'm experiencing lag free side by side intense online racing with some of the fastest out there. If there's a frame rate problem, I'm not seeing it. Maybe it drops or everyone lags for a split second every now and then, but aside from that, I am thankful to have such an amazing experience overall.
 
Time of day. Those dynamic shadows from the trees, cars, etc, are WAY more costly than they are worth. In GT5, there were version of tracks without time of day and you could bake (pre-render) the shadows into scene. Add to that the dynamic lights on your car that are completely unnecessary during daytime races. Those things suck up a ton of resources.

This frame rate issue existed on GT5 as well on those tracks. It was even a little worse because in addition to frame rate drop, you got screen tear as well. I think it's fine for people who like it and are willing to take the hit, but give the rest of us the option to avoid it.
 
I'd give up a lot for a rock steady 60fps, because I've honestly seen screen tearing ad nauseam ever since GT6 launched. Some tracks are worse than others, but I've seen it everywhere. And it's always worse in drift lobbies.

Lower resolution off track textures
Lower rendered or less smoke
Lower rendered or no interiors at all for any cars on track. (I never use cockpit view)
Lower resolution or no off track scenery (trees/bushes/etc)
No 3d crowds
Less fancy lighting effects
 
I don't really care about the frame rate, but take away the crowds because they look hideous. I mean look at Project Gotham Racing 2, they took out the crowds and the game looked really good for its time.
 
SynthManiac75
It is no secret that there are many GT fans who are not pleased with the frame-rates in GT6. My question to those who want better frame-rates is "What are you willing to give up for a more balanced visual performance in GT6?"
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My PS3, they need to release this for PS4.
 
FPS is overrated. Maybe its just my eyesight, but I literally can't tell a difference past 40fps. Why people insist on 60 is beyond me. At any rate, I haven't noticed any fps drops... can you tell me if there's anything specific that triggers them?
 
Shakie666
FPS is overrated. Maybe its just my eyesight, but I literally can't tell a difference past 40fps. Why people insist on 60 is beyond me. At any rate, I haven't noticed any fps drops... can you tell me if there's anything specific that triggers them?
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Several things trigger FPS issues such as..., number of cars on track, lighting/shadowing effects, how much detail is in a given track (as well as cockpit interior).

My problem with GT-6 is that too much focus is on the "bling". Sure it looks nice to see all that sun reflection on the dash interiors (gleaming on the carbon fiber, and other materials). It's nice to see all that smoke and so forth, but all of this extra bling eats up precious resources within these consoles.

The problem with console titles IMO is too much attention on the eye candy. I guess that's just one of those definitive lines between PC and console racers. Consoles have been winning the battle in graphics for years now, but at what cost.... With GT that cost is FPS, screen tearing, sounds, and I'm sure many can add more to that list.

When playing GT-6 yesterday I noticed that you can even seen FPS hits within the cockpit now. The drivers hands on the wheel clearly show a reduction in FPS on some tracks. I did notice that Kaz improved the graphics for the rear view mirrors in the cars. Perhaps taking a hit on the steering wheel FPS was the trade off for that.

I'd still like to see Kaz drop the frame rate. It's either that or he's going to have to start reducing image quality, but if he does that.., the complaints will start rolling in. It's almost a no win situation for him. I also think a poll would be a good idea to get together to maybe show what people are willing to compromise on for better visual performance in this title.
 
Approximately a thruppence and maybe a shilling at a push.

I would give up a few Miata dupes. That's about it.
 
For anyone that can not tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps do a solo lap and watch the replay. Switch from the "tv cam" to the bonnet cam. Tv cam is limited to 30 and the other cameras are not. The bonnet cam (hood cam) has the best frame rate. To improve it even more turn off the rear view mirror on bonnet cam. I wish you could turn it off in the game in that view.
 
Shakie666
FPS is overrated. Maybe its just my eyesight, but I literally can't tell a difference past 40fps. Why people insist on 60 is beyond me. At any rate, I haven't noticed any fps drops... can you tell me if there's anything specific that triggers them?
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FPS certainly isn't overrated, especially when it comes to something like a racing game. The lower the frame rate, the more distance you're covering between each frame. When you're heading at 300+km/h towards a big braking zone, trying to nail lap after lap on the limit, the frame rate can make a big difference in how accurate you can be.

I dunno, maybe you have, but IMO if you spend a bit of time playing something with a much higher framerate than what we get on the PS3 (e.g. iRacing on a reasonable spec PC), you'll notice the lower frame rate when you go back.
 
FPS drops happen in those busy moments, i.e., crowded opponents, multiple bends, high lateral (visual) dynamics... etc. The CPUs in the console are busy, we are busy in driving, too.

Low FPS, as I see it, is some kind of low resolution. No matter the original static res is 720 or 1080, when FPS drops happen in those busy moments, the jumps between frames are so large that the instant displacements of the objects make their texture meaningless.

Visually unnatural aside, it's actually loosing information. It's like when the car is bumping up and down in a bumpy track, in those brief moments of wheels-off-ground, it feels empty on the steering wheel. Not only the feel is empty, also the control to the car. At some of those bigger bumps, we might be push out of the tracks.

If you found FPS drop is not bothering, good for you, but it's indeed a crucial facet of low quality. I'm really sorry to see it so severe in this otherwise wonderful game.
 
DNW
FPS certainly isn't overrated, especially when it comes to something like a racing game. The lower the frame rate, the more distance you're covering between each frame. When you're heading at 300+km/h towards a big braking zone, trying to nail lap after lap on the limit, the frame rate can make a big difference in how accurate you can be.

I dunno, maybe you have, but IMO if you spend a bit of time playing something with a much higher framerate than what we get on the PS3 (e.g. iRacing on a reasonable spec PC), you'll notice the lower frame rate when you go back.
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I guess what I meant is, 60fps is overrated. As I said earlier, I can't tell a difference past 40 (if you can, good for you).

Besides, would it really make that much difference? If you're getting 60fps, and travelling at 200mph, then you're covering 1.5m per frame. At 40fps, you're still only covering 2.2m per frame... unless you're trying to set the world's best lap time in a seasonal, does it really matter that much?
 
To see the effect, go to any race with 16 cars in Sarthe (Le Mans), it's quite obvious along the first few corners. And also the famous Bathrust twisty down hill. I also see it in rainy Spa, around the first corner. Some reports about Apricot Hill at night, too.

They are not smooth 40fps at those moments, I can't give a number. The change from smoothly flowing vision to stuttering is obvious. They are a series of micro-freezes. I think it's easily detectable.


Edit: add information in the 2nd paragraph.
 
It is more about a consistent experience to me. I would be ok if it ran at 30 fps as long as it stayed there. Agree that Le mans gets really bad at the start of the race with max players. I think it is hitting the 20's there.

If a game runs at locked 30 but falls to the 20's it isnt near as jarring as when you are at 60 fps and a couple of cars kick up dust and the frame rate drops at least 20 fps for a moment. I am used to it but at first it was very annoying. I am getting ready to buy Gt5 since I skipped it. Does it drop frames as badly ?
 
LS Chiou
To see the effect, go to any race with 16 cars in Sarthe (Le Mans), it's quite obvious along the first few corners. And also the famous Bathrust twisty down hill. I also see it in rainy Spa, around the first corner. Some reports about Apricot Hill at night, too.

They are not smooth 40fps at those moments, I can't give a number. The change from smoothly flowing vision to stuttering is obvious. They are a series of micro-freezes. I think it's easily detectable.


Edit: add information in the 2nd paragraph.
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Are you using sharpen mode ? It really helps with the judder since it unlocks v-sync for one. I have no idea why they call it sharpen mode as I can see no additional sharpness. The game runs better for me for sure though.
 
I am. Also set it down to 720p. Helps a bit, but not a total cure I'm afraid.

Oh, to the OP, I'd like to give up 16 cars and some details of background to have better frame rate consistency.
 
Shakie666
I guess what I meant is, 60fps is overrated. As I said earlier, I can't tell a difference past 40 (if you can, good for you).

Besides, would it really make that much difference? If you're getting 60fps, and travelling at 200mph, then you're covering 1.5m per frame. At 40fps, you're still only covering 2.2m per frame... unless you're trying to set the world's best lap time in a seasonal, does it really matter that much?
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Well yeah, it depends I guess how into it you are. You don't necessarily have to be trying to set the top time in a seasonal, you could just be trying to beat your own best time in a time trial or something. Having a higher and consistent frame rate helps with (or more, doesn't get in the way of) being able to hit all your markers perfectly. Sure, going up against the AI I've probably never really needed to string a whole race of perfect laps together to win. But I also like doing things like taking the RB Jr to a Spa time trial to just bang in lap after lap trying set my own new fastest time. If you're right on the limit, that little bit of extra distance between frames might mean you overshoot your braking or turn in point and miss the apex. Yeah, not a huge deal in a lot of cases to miss the apex by a bit, but if you're aiming for perfection... well, clearly that's not it. :lol:

Consistency is definitely important though. I'd rather a fixed 40fps than something that fluctuates wildly anywhere between 60fps and 25fps or something like that.

I will add, going from say iRacing (at whatever... 100+fps... don't remember, been too long) to something at say 60fps... the difference IMO is more in feel. I'm not necessarily seeing it and, "Phwwooaar, look at all those frames. Looks way better." Certainly 60fps still looks very smooth, and I wouldn't claim to be able to look at a game and determine, "That's running at 60/100/whatever fps." But actually playing it, I've certainly noticed a difference just through feel and ability to be consistent.
 
Less smoke, environmental effects. I could give up reflections also for better FPS, I don't really care that my cars paint job is reflecting in real time the world around it.

Shakie666
FPS is overrated. Maybe its just my eyesight, but I literally can't tell a difference past 40fps. Why people insist on 60 is beyond me. At any rate, I haven't noticed any fps drops... can you tell me if there's anything specific that triggers them?
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I don't think the problem lies with what the FPS rate actually is, it is more to do with it not being steady and constant. When you are flying along at 60fps and you come into a corner and all of a sudden it drops to 45 fps, then 33, then back to 60 by the corner exit, you can really feel the disjointedness.
 
Well, for starters. One might take the logical approach, and not 🤬 increase the native resolution of a game that already had frame rate problems. It's such a pure example of how idiotic PD is. GT6 would've potentially fixed GT5's frame rate problems, had they not decided to increase the framerate yet Again. This is made even worse by the fact that this tiny increase in the native resolution offers no noticeable Graphics increase. It does, however, strain the system more.

Another logical approach would be to release the game on the far superior next gen system that conviniently released at around the same time as the game. A system that we know PD has had access to for quite some time, as they were one of the developers that helped with shaping the system.

It's sad when you realise that I, and indeed most in this commuity, could do a better job running PD than Kaz.
Having a brain capable of logical thought helps quite a lot.
 
idk why, i really cant explain it but i removed ALL screen tearing on my screen by clicking on the " reduce flicker" on the GT6s options menu. this might help some of you, again idk how reducing flicker helped with screen tearing but it did for me and i will never take it off lol. i noticed it especially since i have a monitor that i use for my PS3 gaming that is literally in front of me, duhr?
 
ParkerMO125
I'm experiencing lag free side by side intense online racing with some of the fastest out there. If there's a frame rate problem, I'm not seeing it. Maybe it drops or everyone lags for a split second every now and then, but aside from that, I am thankful to have such an amazing experience overall.
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what he said...
 
ParkerMO125
I'm experiencing lag free side by side intense online racing with some of the fastest out there. If there's a frame rate problem, I'm not seeing it. Maybe it drops or everyone lags for a split second every now and then, but aside from that, I am thankful to have such an amazing experience overall.
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I'm curious how this is happening for you.

As for the FPS being detectable, it is for me. I notice it all. FPS changes, interlaced vs progressive, all of it. Maybe because I've been playing/watching video games for nearly 40 years :)
 
Shakie666
FPS is overrated. Maybe its just my eyesight, but I literally can't tell a difference past 40fps. Why people insist on 60 is beyond me. At any rate, I haven't noticed any fps drops... can you tell me if there's anything specific that triggers them?
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40 is great, but 60 is sweet.
 
I would not have any problem giving up most of the Miatas and Skylines ;-)

Honestly, how many of you would miss the Lunar part of this title?

**or any other unnecessary duplicates in this title**
 
I'd give up time of day lighting. I'd give up real-time reflections on all cars during races. I'd give up 25% of the polygons on cars during races...I'd give up lots of visual details if I could have a never varying 60fps...in cockpit view.
 
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