BMW M3 - PD has made it the worst handling car in GT5P

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acwebpage
I have used almost every car in GT5P and I can say that the BMW M3 using professional setting and all assists OFF, is the most difficult car to handle.

Has "anyone" managed to win a race ONline on professional event using the BMW M3?

I doubt anyone is able to win "professional" using this car, if you do win, please let me know.

In fact if you cant win online using this car, try winning on class A or S races using this car. good luck.

I think it is sad that PD has unethically made the japanese cars faster and handle better than the real world German cars like BMW M3.

can you believe it, PD has made an EVO X faster in a straight line than an M3 in this game.

just search any car reviews on the BMW M3, and they will all tell you that the M3 is the best handling car in its class. but PD has made it the worst handling car. shame on you polyphone digital. dishonestly making german cars perform worst than the japanese cars. shame on you.

If you win a race online in professional using the M3, let me know. impossible
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Troll user is troll.

Can't believe you guys fell for this.
 
I've tuned my M3 to be as close as possible to my GTR settings - it drives like a dreamy beast.
But the GT-R is by far my favourite car on gt5p
 
Cold Fussion
A powerful rwd car doesn't spin instantly when you apply the accelerator (even a little bit in this game) mid corner. And its not going to spin with with half accelerator and not full lock in rl, which it will in gt5p.
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I absolutely agree to this !

Though i wouldnt say the Pro-Physics are rubbish.. They are the best for computergames so far. I know it is really difficult to simulate car physics on a TV-screen.
 
This guy is obviously some kind of 12yr old BMW fan boy who obviously can't drive.

This thread = Fail !
 
Since we're on the subject I thought some of you all would find this video interesting.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=232030&Mode=B

I haven't driven the M3 in GT5:P yet but from my experience in using the Japanese demo (its all I got in terms of GT5:P right now) I can't imagine it being worse than the IS-F, I don't know what it is but it just hates corners it seems, it just feels heavy. Maybe some people have pleasant experiences with this car but I have given it chance after chance and it disappoints every time. Meanwhile driving the GTR is just blissful!
 
Have you guys driven a M3? I have abd I have to say from the test drive I had that it is pretty much spot on with GT5P. The car is VERY FUN TO DRIVE but not fast in turns unless babied. `Now that is with the DTC button pressed for 15 secs to turn all aids off. with them on the camputer keeps the car in total control at all times. something noone here does in GT5P as we mostly drive without any driving aids.
 
Cold Fussion
Professional physics are complete rubbish in this game. A powerful rwd car doesn't spin instantly when you apply the accelerator (even a little bit in this game) mid corner.
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You must have one hell of a heavy finger then, as it certainly doesn't spin me instantly I apply the accelerator.


Cold Fussion
And its not going to spin with with half accelerator and not full lock in rl, which it will in gt5p.
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Utter and complete nonsense.

Lets take a look at the real world then shall we.

First off a true definition of what causes oversteer, its when the rear tyres slip angle is greater than that of the front tyres. The bigger the difference the greater degree of oversteer we are dealing with (and the opposite is true of understeer).

The two causes of slip in tyres are from rotational forces (acceleration or deceleration) and steering input. The greater these are the greater the slip will be, so with oversteer being a case in which the rear slip is greater than the front slip its both locigal and correct the oversteer can and does occur when you are not at full lock.

In fact all other factors being equal the less steering lock you have on (as long as you have some) the greater you have a chance of developing oversteer. Full steering lock can often result in understeer rather than oversteer.



Now lets look at the other claim, and take a car with the engine at 3,900 rpm, at which speed this car produces 295 ft/lbs of torque. Its in second gear, which has a ratio of 2.369, the car also has a final drive ratio of 3.85, that will give us an at the driven (rear) wheels torque figure of approx 2,690 lbs.

Now given that this car weighs 3,649lbs and has a static distribution of 51.20%, that would mean under acceleration that we could expect to see 2,000lbs (given load transfer to the rear under acceleration and being very generous) on the rear wheels (I am using a rough tyre/road 'co-ef of friction' of 1.0 here, truth be told on public road tarmac it would likely be less).

The problem we have is that is less than the 2,690 lbs of torque it has to deal with. So at an engine speed that could be quite easily be achieved at part throttle and being stupidly generous in regard to both load transfer and tyre/road grip levels, its quite easy to see that its more than possible to do in the real world.

The car in question here in case anyone failed to guess is of course the very M3 that its been claimed would not be able to do this in the real world.


Hell I can get the back of my 320i to step out in second gear on dry tarmac with part throttle and without full lock, if that can do it with a 2.0 straight 4 then its not much of a leap to see the M3 doing it (and the figures above clearly show it can be done).

Now don't get me wrong I am not claiming that GT5:P is perfect (in fact you will notice this is the first time I have referred to it), but please don't make statements about what is definitively true in the real world unless you can actually put some info behind it.


Regards

Scaff
 
acwebpage
yep thats right, but what it shows is that the BMW is comparable to cars such as R8 and GTR, and its actually cheaper than those cars.
but in the game GT5P, PD made the M3 AND R8 performance a lot worse than the GTR. in fact a lot worse than they actually are.
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dunno where you get your facts from but the m3 is roughly $90k and the gt-r is $76k so no the m3 is not cheaper than the gt-r

and you cannot possibly compare it to the r8 even though it has the same engine as the rs4(wich is a direct competitor of the m3), the r8 is much more race intended

and just on a side note the m3 and the r8 actually perform worse than the other 2 cars thats exactly what nissan's target wasmainly because they were measuring it against the giant that the 911 is nowadays
 
Scaff
You must have one hell of a heavy finger then, as it certainly doesn't spin me instantly I apply the accelerator.



Utter and complete nonsense.

Lets take a look at the real world then shall we.

First off a true definition of what causes oversteer, its when the rear tyres slip angle is greater than that of the front tyres. The bigger the difference the greater degree of oversteer we are dealing with (and the opposite is true of understeer).

The two causes of slip in tyres are from rotational forces (acceleration or deceleration) and steering input. The greater these are the greater the slip will be, so with oversteer being a case in which the rear slip is greater than the front slip its both locigal and correct the oversteer can and does occur when you are not at full lock.

In fact all other factors being equal the less steering lock you have on (as long as you have some) the greater you have a chance of developing oversteer. Full steering lock can often result in understeer rather than oversteer.



Now lets look at the other claim, and take a car with the engine at 3,900 rpm, at which speed this car produces 295 ft/lbs of torque. Its in second gear, which has a ratio of 2.369, the car also has a final drive ratio of 3.85, that will give us an at the driven (rear) wheels torque figure of approx 2,690 lbs.

Now given that this car weighs 3,649lbs and has a static distribution of 51.20%, that would mean under acceleration that we could expect to see 2,000lbs (given load transfer to the rear under acceleration and being very generous) on the rear wheels (I am using a rough tyre/road 'co-ef of friction' of 1.0 here, truth be told on public road tarmac it would likely be less).

The problem we have is that is less than the 2,690 lbs of torque it has to deal with. So at an engine speed that could be quite easily be achieved at part throttle and being stupidly generous in regard to both load transfer and tyre/road grip levels, its quite easy to see that its more than possible to do in the real world.

The car in question here in case anyone failed to guess is of course the very M3 that its been claimed would not be able to do this in the real world.


Hell I can get the back of my 320i to step out in second gear on dry tarmac with part throttle and without full lock, if that can do it with a 2.0 straight 4 then its not much of a leap to see the M3 doing it (and the figures above clearly show it can be done).

Now don't get me wrong I am not claiming that GT5:P is perfect (in fact you will notice this is the first time I have referred to it), but please don't make statements about what is definitively true in the real world unless you can actually put some info behind it.


Regards

Scaff
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Ouch, my head hurts now :ouch:

also remember the M3 comes stock with runflat tyres, which we all know are not the best for track use.
 
I just watched the vid on the previous page.

I find it very weird that the back of the car doesn't 'snap back' after such a drift. He should be countersteering when ending the drift but there's absolutely no need to :sick:
 
khsuf7762
BMW is the best, but seeing as the Japanese made this game the obviously would make the Suzuki Cappucino faster than the M3. they do it just to piss German afficianados off, even though both fought together in World War 2
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I laughed so, so hard after reading this. I can't tell if you have successfully trolled me or not.
 
Well the MSRP of a GT-R says about 76k, but with markups it is going to end up no less than 100K if you are lucky, our local BMW dealership wanted to sell us a fully loaded M3 minus winter package and keyless entry for about 85k. So do not compare them to equal price range either
 
BMW is the best, but seeing as the Japanese made this game the obviously would make the Suzuki Cappucino faster than the M3. they do it just to piss German afficianados off, even though both fought together in World War 2
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As a BMW afficianado, I heartily approve of this message/troll.

I'd like to believe that driving the M3 would be challenging, relying on a lot of the driver's skill. But what the hell do I know; still a few days until i get GT5p here in the US.
 
mbavaria30s
As a BMW afficianado, I heartily approve of this message/troll.

I'd like to believe that driving the M3 would be challenging, relying on a lot of the driver's skill. But what the hell do I know; still a few days until i get GT5p here in the US.
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Anything to justify those overpriced, heavy cars that are self-professed to be "sporty" when they are nothing of the sort, eh?
 
Completely. A sports-anything car that's like 4000lbs? are you nuts? Geez, I don't know why i like this company so much. Curse you, pleasant nostalgia of my first car( '74 Bavaria 3.0s), however unwieldy as it may be on the track!
 
I can't help but to laugh at threads like this, if all the driving assists are off then how can you except the M3 easy to control? I have no doubt the M3 in real life handles like a dream with all it's driving aids. I think the M3 is a great handling car in GT5:P, it took some practice but now that I'm starting to understand the the cars characteristics it's not so bad. I thought the NSX was a nightmare of a car to drive, but now I love driving the NSX. I don't understand why people think pro-physics should be easy to drive? For example I didn't except the Ferrari F430 an easy car to drive fast. To me, driving European cars are exciting cause they tend to be more difficult to drive then Japanese cars.

If some of you are professional drivers and test drove many of these cars then your input to whether these cars feel close to their real life counter part would be greatly appreciated.:)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyOifr_WaK4
This is a good video. With all aids off this cars it too much for most people. I agree with BreakerOhio. Maybe we need more detailed driving aid settings, but don't expect to get hot laps with this in pro with aids off and expect the grass and to be all over the shop instead.

Top gear did a piece on the new one, but youtube remove the vids. Its very hard to control with aids off and tail happy crazy.

Not saying the game is perfect, but you should look at the speed, turning angle and amount of throttle, and I'm sure you your using too much and in the wrong order.
 
Chronos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyOifr_WaK4
This is a good video. With all aids off this cars it too much for most people. I agree with BreakerOhio. Maybe we need more detailed driving aid settings, but don't expect to get hot laps with this in pro with aids off and expect the grass and to be all over the shop instead.
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Awesome video. Sometimes I think that GT5P cars slide too easily when compared to LFS but that video makes me think that GT5P gets it right.

Anyway here are some Top Gear track results. I only see the Evo VIII not the Evo IX or Evo X. But looks like the Evo is pretty fast.

1 Ascari A10 1.17.3
2 Koenigsegg CCX (with TG spoiler) 1.17.6
3 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
4 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
5 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
6 Ariel Atom 1.19.5
7 Lamborghini LP640 1.19.8
8 Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.8
9 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
10 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
11 Ferrari 599 GTB 1.21.2
12 Ford GT 1.21.9
13 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
14 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
15 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1.22.4
16 Noble M15 1.22.5
17 Ferrari F430 1.22.9
18 Lamborghini Murcielago 1.23.7
19 Pagani Zonda 1.23.8
20 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
21 Audi R8 1.24.4
22 TVR Sagaris 1.24.6
23 Mitsubishi Evo FQ 400 1.24.8
24 Noble M400 1.25.0
25 Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
26 Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7
27 Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8
28 BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
29 Brabus Biturbo Roadster 1.26.2
30 Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
31 Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
32 Mercedes-Benz CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
33 Lotus Exige 1.26.9
34 Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
35 Aston Martin DB9 1.27.1
36 Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
37 Spyker C8 1.27.3
38 Wiesmann 1.27.9
39 BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0
40 Roush Mustang 1.28.0
41 Marcos TSO GT2 1.28.2
42 Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5
43 Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9
44 Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9
45 Mercedes-Benz CL65 1.29
46 BMW Alpina Z8 1.29.0
47 Subaru Impreza STi WRX WR1 1.29.4
48 Volkswagen Golf W12 GTI 1.29.6
49 Alfa 3.7 GTA Autodelta 1.30.0
50 Ford Shelby GT500 1.30.0
51 Vauxhall Monaro VXR 1.30.1
52 Subaru Impreza STI 1.30.1
53 Volkswagen Golf R32 1.30.4
54 Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
55 Audi S4 1.30.9
56 Porsche 911 Turbo 1.31.0
57 Vauxhall VX220 Turbo 1.31.3
58 Vauxhall VXR8 1.31.3
59 Vauxhall VXR8 1.31.3
60 New Audi TT 1.31.4
61 Honda NSX Type-R 1.31.6
62 BMW 535d 1.31.8
63 Mazda RX8 1.31.8
64 Nissan 350Z 1.31.8
65 BMW M3 1.31.8
66 BMW 130 1.31.9
67 Ford Focus RS 1.32.2
68 Mazda 6 MPS 1.32.2
69 Audi TT V6 1.32.7
70 Jaguar E-Type 1.32.8
71 MG ZT 1.33.0
72 MG ZT 1.33.0
73 Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG 1.33.2
74 Holden Monaro 1.33.5
75 Renault Clio Cup 1.33.8
76 Ford Mondeo ST220 1.34.5
77 Jaguar XKR 1.34.7
78 Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
79 Volvo S60R 1.35.0
80 Ferrari 575M 1.35.2
81 Vauxhall Vectra VXR 1.35.3
82 Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 1.35.6
83 Lotus Elise 1.35.6
84 Aston Martin Vanquish 1.36.2
85 Renault Clio v6 1.36.2
86 Honda Civic Type-R 1.36.5
87 Alfa Romeo Brera 1.36.9
88 Saab 95 hot aero 1.37.9
89 Mazzer 1.38.0
90 Maserati 3200 GT 1.38.0
91 Bowler Wildcat 1.39.4
92 Bentley Arnage 1.40.8
93 Overfinch 1.44.0
94 Aston Martin DB5 1.46.0
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Do you realise half those lap times are bogus? I swear they wait for a wet track with cars they don't like. They have each car for a week, and notice when they film Jeremy or The Hamster they are nearly always on a dry track, then The Stig jumps in and bam, it's pouring rain.
 
actually hadnt noticed that so i would have to check (i have every top gear episode since the 6th season) but ive seen a couple of cars they dont like on a dry track so i wouldnt be able to tell if that assumption is right

either way we would have to wait till the gt5 realease cuz PD said that the top gear track will be featured in the complete game
 
I just got the M3 for the A - class Eiger challenge. I must disagree with the OP. This car feels very convincing. When I look at that Fifth Gear video and then drive the M3 at Eiger, I'm pretty impressed.

I spent over an hour trying to drive the M3 like Tiff in that Fifth Gear video. In the video you see him struggling with oversteer when he turns off traction control. Even on a standing start the wheels spin and car's rear swings a little.

It may not be a great car to race but it's a fun drive.
 
nd 4 holden spd
I swear they wait for a wet track with cars they don't like. They have each car for a week, and notice when they film Jeremy or The Hamster they are nearly always on a dry track, then The Stig jumps in and bam, it's pouring rain.
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Welcome to the UK.

I drove home from work (12 miles) in yesterday afternoon. I started off with clear blue skies and the moonroof wide open. I drove through rain shower, rain storm, sleet, hail and, finally, a thunderstorm.
 
BreakerOhio
The term great handling is usually applied to cars that don't suffer from understeer.
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acwebpage,
this is the answer to your issue.

I used to think the 4wd cars (evo, skyline, STI) were the best cars in the game cos they were EASY to drive. I drive a WRX in real life, and on the track, 4WD makes things extremely easy on the limit. BUT at the cost of understeer.

Recently, I had to force myself to drive the Lotus 111R Tuned to win online races. Tricky for sure, but after tuning it and getting used to steering with the throttle, I can't go back to 4WD, cos of the understeer compared to RWD.

The key thing is UNDERSTEER.

Now I totally get all those car journos who say cars like Evos are boring. They make things too easy. Mash the gas pedal on the limit, and at most, you'll understeer. A RWD takes precision throttle and steering control at the limit, something 4WD cars don't need. You need to make the car "dance". RWD cars may be slower, but are much, much more satisfying. I love the M3 and 350Z in the game because I feel a real sense of achievement.

Try winning online races in the 111R Tuned, then go back to 4WD cars. You'll cringe with the amount of understeer you get by comparison.
 
nd 4 holden spd
Do you realise half those lap times are bogus? I swear they wait for a wet track with cars they don't like. They have each car for a week, and notice when they film Jeremy or The Hamster they are nearly always on a dry track, then The Stig jumps in and bam, it's pouring rain.
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Al those record laptimes are done by The Stig, so what you're saying isn't making any sense.
When Jeremy 'tests' a car it's usually just for fun, but the record laptimes are all done by The Stig himself.
 
GTXLR
maybe its just the driver? have you driven the eiger test in pro mode with all assists off?
That will teach you to respect this car, and will reward you.
Ive only managed a 1.17 in pro no assists, but it will teach how to feather the throttle, and feed in the power rather than just boot it, it will teach how to set up your corner entry and balance the car.
At first i was getting massive wheelspin, and spinning out but if you stick with it and learn you will soon find you begin to get the power down more effectively, and gather control.
i even out run the evoX up the hill after the final hairpin.
once you can be consistant on this test in pro no assists, its a dream to take it to the tracks.

Any reasonably powered RWD will spin its wheels without TCS if the car is off balance in a turn especially if its on its limits.
I even witnessed a numpty in an M3 in birmingham just a couple of months back ended up donuting in front of me on a round about, when the car was off balance, and a slightly heavy foot, he was damn lucky i didnt plow my wagon right through him!

This car is all about balance, if your mid turn on the edge and you ask the rear to push a bit more because you want to go faster, your likely going to spin, unless your car control skills are up to it.
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A powerful rwd car doesn't oversteer when a little bit of accelerator is applied mid corner. That is a fact and that is what happens in gt5p. Standard phyics need more oversteer. Personally, i feel gthd was much better in this regard because the 599 oversteered predictably when you hammered the accelrator mid corner and seem to represent the full lock needed and full power needed to get it power sliding.
 

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