BMW Tii Concept

[Sakiale]

You know that most of the black is CF, right?

And Casio, .... words cannot describe you.

 

[YSSMAN]

The thing I find peculiar is, at least for the North American market, the 135i is already going to be priced so close to the 335i, I wonder if people are going to swallow an even more expensive model (easily $40k+), no matter how fast it is.

Thats what automatically kills it in my book. Quite honestly, $40K buys you a really nice car these days, hell, even two nice cars. If the performance is going to be that of a 335i but with a few inches chopped off in every direction, well, whats the point?

God forbid they build a truly lightweight coupe with a powerful enough engine to make it seem "lively" at times...

 

[Omnis]

well if this went into production and you chipped , it would be better .... people who buy car like these don't look at straight line speeds, they like to see how it performs on the back roads in Europe

Yeah, but it would still be a lot cheaper to buy a regular one, chip it, and strip it.

 

[Rykon Zero]

Oooooh, I can haz? I luuurrrrrvvve it! one in white! oh so nice!
(god, I sound like an idiot. I really like that car. I was in love with the 1 series since it became a coupe.)

 

[niky]

Actually, I'd prefer the 1-series in 2 liter turbocharged form... it'd be much closer in spirit to the original tit... errh... tiit.

As it's only a design concept, I'd like two of everything M-Spec is pining for stuck on that... plus some real lightweight wheels... "Lightweight" and 18" don't roll off the tounge that well when you say them together... Maybe 17" mags or even 16" mags with some fat tires and sidewall lettering stenciled in white... would really complete the "retro" vibe that the "tii" badge invokes.

Actually, you probably don't need chassis stiffening and an LSD... just the hydraulic rack, better wheels and tires, and the option of an LSD, to keep the price down.

 

[Jedi2016]

Gimme a solid color on the outside, get rid of the white on the inside, and I can sum it up in one word.. WANT.

 

[Revheadnz]

Dear me. Now I know why all the 135i coupe pics I've seen have been in darker colours. Helps to cover up the questionable detailing. That really is quite nasty from every angle. Still, I like the reverse Tii on the bumper, harking back to the original mental turbo Beemer.

Still, its a good sign that BMW has real performance aspirations for the 1. The 'Tii" name is a nice touch for those who know. But if they are indeed serious, there are some things that a production car will need:

Real tires. Not RFTs.
Real mechanical LSD.
Hydraulic steering rack.
Chassis bracing for track work.
Shorter gearing.

Hmm. All things the M people typically do. 💡


M

I agree with on all the points M-Spec.
I think that if this car was more hardcore and driver/track-oriented, somewhat like a 135 CSL, with a proper LSD, proper steering (none of this electric rubbish, no drive by wire throttle either), big brakes etc then people interested in a proper drivers car/semi track car would be more likely to consider a US$40K small BMW sports car.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Actually, I'd prefer the 1-series in 2 liter turbocharged form... it'd be much closer in spirit to the original tit... errh... tiit.

As it's only a design concept, I'd like two of everything M-Spec is pining for stuck on that... plus some real lightweight wheels... "Lightweight" and 18" don't roll off the tounge that well when you say them together... Maybe 17" mags or even 16" mags with some fat tires and sidewall lettering stenciled in white... would really complete the "retro" vibe that the "tii" badge invokes.

Actually, you probably don't need chassis stiffening and an LSD... just the hydraulic rack, better wheels and tires, and the option of an LSD, to keep the price down.

Oddly enough, I think that's why the 123d interests me so much. Sure, it's a diesel, but it is a two-litre... just an extra turbo compared to the classic.

I think the main problem with the 135 is that nobody expected it to be so damned heavy. Obviously Bimmers are a bit porky these days, but the fact it's only 40kg lighter than a 335? What's the point? The hatch 130 was at least appreciably lighter than the equivalent 3, so for what is basically a 96% 3-series, I'd rather spend that little extra bit and buy the bigger car. I want a lightweight car, something that could've really reminded people of either the 2002 (doubtful), or at the very least, the E30. This is just too close to the 3 to really warrant a purchase, and I'm really confused as to why BMW only wants the top-line 1's in North America if the rest of the line would at least better distance it from the 3 here.

 

[Omnis]

As it's only a design concept, I'd like two of everything M-Spec is pining for stuck on that... plus some real lightweight wheels... "Lightweight" and 18" don't roll off the tounge that well when you say them together... Maybe 17" mags or even 16" mags with some fat tires and sidewall lettering stenciled in white... would really complete the "retro" vibe that the "tii" badge invokes.

Yeah, the 1 would look really cool with small wheels and fat tires a'la Longchamps.

 

[Casio]

And Casio, .... words cannot describe you.

All the ladies say that, I guess you're no different.

On second look, I don't hate it as much as I did, but the back is still pretty bad, and I want the car in a bright yellow with black rims.

 

[Dead_Poetic]

I love it. The looks, the concept, the interior. Its just awesome in my opinion.

 

[Philly]

Actually, you probably don't need chassis stiffening and an LSD... just the hydraulic rack, better wheels and tires, and the option of an LSD, to keep the price down.

I'm sure a lot of folks would go for a little extra suspension stiffening. I know I would.

I think the main problem with the 135 is that nobody expected it to be so damned heavy. Obviously Bimmers are a bit porky these days, but the fact it's only 40kg lighter than a 335? What's the point? The hatch 130 was at least appreciably lighter than the equivalent 3, so for what is basically a 96% 3-series,...

Really?!? I guess the 1 just lost a lot of the appeal I had for it. Why can't BMW make a smaller car that can actually play the part? That's just gross.

 

[exigeracer]

This is coming from a company that put a carbon fibre roof, saving 10lbs, on an 4-thousand pound 6-series coupe and actually advertised it as "Redefining the term, lightweight"

Yup, sure is redefining lightweight!

 

[///M-Spec]

Actually, I'd prefer the 1-series in 2 liter turbocharged form... it'd be much closer in spirit to the original tit... errh... tiit.

As it's only a design concept, I'd like two of everything M-Spec is pining for stuck on that... plus some real lightweight wheels... "Lightweight" and 18" don't roll off the tounge that well when you say them together... Maybe 17" mags or even 16" mags with some fat tires and sidewall lettering stenciled in white... would really complete the "retro" vibe that the "tii" badge invokes.

Actually, you probably don't need chassis stiffening and an LSD... just the hydraulic rack, better wheels and tires, and the option of an LSD, to keep the price down.

"Hey, I like your tiit"

I should have been more clear: the chassis bracing was for suspension and subframe mounting points on the body itself; not a strut tower or under-body brace. In the E36 and E46 world, tracked cars can end up with torn mounts once people start adding R-comp tires and other 'go faster' mods. Over time, the body weakens and mounting points tear... it's an ugly thing to see. It's usually the cars that are worked hard that this happens to, but I've heard of people complaining about this on 100% street cars too.

Its gotten to the point where companies make 'chassis reinforcement kits' for tracked 3ers. Even street cars can benefit from this upgrade, as you can swap out the soft factory rubber for sturdier stuff while you're in there and sharpen up the suspension significantly.

I suspect that the 1er, based on a E90 3er, will continue to have such issues under hard track use. E90s are still pretty young at this point, but I have no doubt at time point, people will find some weak spots.

This is coming from a company that put a carbon fibre roof, saving 10lbs, on an 4-thousand pound 6-series coupe and actually advertised it as "Redefining the term, lightweight"

Yup, sure is redefining lightweight!

Truly. It's like ordering a Diet Coke with your cheese burger and fries.


M

 

[Kent]

Well...
I don't really think the weight of the car is much of an issue. What does a normal 135 weigh? Can't be much more than 3400lbs. At a weight like that (close to the 3 or not) you can easily have great performance with a well tuned car.

I didn't see any numbers in the article or the original posting (which was directly copied without credit). Without numbers and real specs this car is just an image. However, even the image gets the job done in some places... The seats for example will more than likely be lighter than normal well cushioned seats. So the image actually works out to be lighter than a stardard model (even though as a concept it is still just an image).

Let's just say this did work out as a production vehicle... I'm not familiar with the 1 series but I'd guess they use smaller engines. From the sound of the discussion a small turbo engine sounds possible. 👍 With that you've got to recognize the potential for reduced weight on the front axle, which can easily lead to better weight distribution... Now we've got reason to believe the concept's application will likely result in weight reduction for both the engine and interior. Those areas alone are enough to warrant special status in my opinion.

In application for a production model, I believe a "sport" tuned 1series with a weight-reduced interior and high output turbo engine could easily be a great car.

Complaints from me though... The interior's 2 tone gauges strain the eyes (keep them all white across the board for a modern touch, keep them all black for the classic).
Also, based on this concept art, I'd say the messed up from the get-go...


That screams sport tuned, weight reduced, twin turbo 6 cylinder, M6 with a different name- maybe "awesome."

This is coming from a company that put a carbon fibre roof, saving 10lbs, on an 4-thousand pound 6-series coupe and actually advertised it as "Redefining the term, lightweight"

Yup, sure is redefining lightweight!

Have you ever heard about what 10lbs off the roof weight can do for a car? Even something as light as 10lbs on the roof can produce changes equal to mucher greater weight reductions from lower points in the car.
Maybe you should check around for the BM Evo8MR full review (I think that is where you get a good "quotable" figure on something like 4kg off the roof is equal 16kg from the engine? (can't remember though).

Although I like M's chesseburger comparison for humor, I don't really agree in philosophy... I feel like every little bit of effort and result is worth something when you're trying to create art. 👍 I don't recall advertising for the M6 so the "redefining lightweight" is beyond me but I believe taking weight from the roof is always a good idea. 👍

 

[superberkut]

I read about this concept some time ago; they're trying to sell it to die-hard BMW fans (the entire Motorsports department comes to mind) and maybe a few rich people, but it is most likely the fans as there is virtually no interior room, though. They are not going to limit it in any way other than speed. So, it makes for quite the car.

The reversed stickers there provoke the memories of the last performance small-car, the BMW 2002 Turbo, as early cars had reversed graphics on their flamboyant front air dams so slower drivers could read it in their rearview mirrors as the car passed them by. Of course, the environmentalists stepped in after that, and the decals were consequently erased from the spoiler. Sure, it looked tacky, but it was rather humourous...

Imagine if it was known as the M1! Everyone would be in an uproar!

 

[exigeracer]

I didn't see any numbers in the article or the original posting (which was directly copied without credit).

I did put the link at the end of the post. The actual text is from the 1 Addicts site, which got it from a BMW press release.

I was going to cut up the info to make the document shorter, then refer to the original text for full details. I did not edit it down, so I forgot to mention the source of the article in words. I will be more careful from now on.

Have you ever heard about what 10lbs off the roof weight can do for a car? Even something as light as 10lbs on the roof can produce changes equal to mucher greater weight reductions from lower points in the car.

Look at the ad:

10lb, regardless of where the weight is, is very marginal when the car weighs slightly less than four thousand pounds. They are grossly misusing the phrase "Redefining the term, lightweight".

 

[Kent]

10lb, regardless of where the weight is, is very marginal when the car weighs slightly less than four thousand pounds. They are grossly misusing the phrase "Redefining the term, lightweight".

Although I wouldn't use "grossly" I agree the weight loss isn't worthy of "redefining lightweight." None the less, if you can't appreciate 10lbs. off the roof then I'd guess you just don't feel the same way I do when I said...

but I believe taking weight from the roof is always a good idea.

Fact is, taking weight off the roof is a much easier and much more affective than taking weight off of any other spot... Simple facts, taking one pound off the roof is better than taking one pound off the engine or floor.
The ad explains it and I'd assume you understand the idea of "center of gravity."
With weight coming off the roof it is hard to compare it to any other spot because it is such a great place to lose weight.
I mean, if you can't appreciate it that's fine but I'm just trying to get the point across that it really is a great place to lose weight. 👍

 

[exigeracer]

Although I wouldn't use "grossly" I agree the weight loss isn't worthy of "redefining lightweight." None the less, if you can't appreciate 10lbs. off the roof then I'd guess you just don't feel the same way I do when I said...

Fact is, taking weight off the roof is a much easier and much more affective than taking weight off of any other spot... Simple facts, taking one pound off the roof is better than taking one pound off the engine or floor.
The ad explains it and I'd assume you understand the idea of "center of gravity."
With weight coming off the roof it is hard to compare it to any other spot because it is such a great place to lose weight.
I mean, if you can't appreciate it that's fine but I'm just trying to get the point across that it really is a great place to lose weight. 👍

I fully understand the benefits of removing weight from the top of the car vs. the bottom, it doesn't need to be explained to me twice. I've submerged myself into a car culture that is based on lightweight, with followers who have had to talk their way out of tickets explaining to cops why they've got lexan windscreens instead of glass. That said, take a look at my original post. I had an issue with BMWs claims of their cars being lightweight. They took off 10lb from the top of their car, spat some carbonfibre trim inside the cabin and claim it to be reinventing the term.

Of course I can appreciate the weight savings, but we do differ in the sense that I would consider two 2000lb sportscars over one 4000lb sportscar.

 

[Slicks]

Tii/M1: Like. Alot.
But, like with most new cars, too heavy for it's size. I saw that and was expecting something in the 32-3300 lb range... Light, for a modern bimmer.

It looks better than a 3er, is smaller, and hopefully almost as powerful. Sounds like an enthusiasts car to me :tup
Give it a good four, or mabye a 6 under the hood... Something in the 240-250 horsepower range.


"Light" M6.
Kent, I can always appreciate weight savings on a car, but I'm doubtful that you would be able to feel any difference in any aspect of the car without some precise instruments.
[Insert Double-Big-Mac-and-Supersize-fries-with-diet-Coke reference here].

I think it would be much more cost effective for those owners looking for weight savings to simply excercise for a few weeks.

 

[Philly]

Tii/M1: Like. Alot.
But, like with most new cars, too heavy for it's size. I saw that and was expecting something in the 32-3300 lb range... Light, for a modern bimmer.

I think you might just have to accept the fact that cars are getting heavier for comparison purposes. For cars built in the last few years, we may just have to consider 3300 poinds as "light."

 

[niky]

Me? I've always felt that even 3000 pounds was "heavy".

RE: reinforcement: One would hope that the E90 and the new 1-chassis would be better reinforced than the older E46... but then again, we are talking about FR cars, which often have extra stress from the distance between front suspension mountings and the safety cage. Good point! Hey, if we're going that way, why not a stitch-welded chassis and mounting points for an (optional) rollcage... mmmhmmmm...
-------

10 pounds is about the weight of a gallon of gas. you can hardly feel that on the track and it probably registers as a 0.02 second blip on the lap-timing instruments.

Now if we were talking lightweight... how about the last NSX Type R? Now that was utterly ridiculous (a mesh-type gearshift sock? ), but cool, nonetheless.

 

[Kent]

Talk about light weight, the fact is, I drive a car that weighs 2600lbs.
Light by most standards.
That said, I'm getting a lot of flack for addressing the fact that a light weight carbon fibre roof is a good thing.

One party knocks it and another says I'll take weight savings from the roof any day.

 

[m7ammed]

People are stating that this car is weighting 3200-3400lbs while there are no numbers released ??

 

[exigeracer]

That said, I'm getting a lot of flack for addressing the fact that a light weight carbon fibre roof is a good thing.

One party knocks it and another says I'll take weight savings from the roof any day.

Read my original post. I had issue with the way BMW was advertising it.

 

[Philly]

That said, I'm getting a lot of flack for addressing the fact that a light weight carbon fibre roof is a good thing.

Surely, a CF roof is much better than a steel roof. However, the car is very heavy to begin with and it is still very heavy.

Is it good? Yes. Is it effective? Barely.

 

[Omnis]

Stop talking about the damn 6 series. Damn.

 

[///M-Spec]

Well...
I don't really think the weight of the car is much of an issue. What does a normal 135 weigh? Can't be much more than 3400lbs. At a weight like that (close to the 3 or not) you can easily have great performance with a well tuned car.

These are the US market unladen weights for the manual (automatic) 1 series coupes.

128i: 3252 (3329)
135i: 3373 (3384)

By unladen, I presume BMW means wet with a full tank of gas, no driver or luggage.

This makes the US spec 135i 77 pounds lighter than the E46 M3.

Or exactly the same weight as a 350Z Grand Touring (3372), plus one pound.

Or roughly the same weight as a JDM Evo X MR. The (well equipped) US spec Evo will be around ~3500lb.

Or 287 lbs. lighter than a US Audi A3 3.2 quattro S-line (3660 lbs)

Not apples to apples comparisons, of course the Z being a sports car, Evo being a sedan and the A3 being a five door hatch. But they are priced in the same neighborhood and are looking for similar buyers.

So the 1 does represent an attempt by BMW at controlling the weight and size of its cars. It may not be anywhere close to an original 2002tii (2225 lbs!), but compared to other cars near/around its segment, is not doing too badly.

I don't have the actual weight distribution numbers yet, but the US 1-series microsite promotes 50/50 distribution. However, the verbage implies only the 128i. I would expect the 135i to be not far off.

In application for a production model, I believe a "sport" tuned 1series with a weight-reduced interior and high output turbo engine could easily be a great car.

I like that you like this car, Kent. Really. A lot of jaded (and irrational) people in the BMW community don't seem to be happy unless it weighed less than a Miata, outruns a Cayman S and cost less than a Fit. It's good to see someone with realistic expectations chime in.

Although I like M's chesseburger comparison for humor, I don't really agree in philosophy... I feel like every little bit of effort and result is worth something when you're trying to create art. 👍 I don't recall advertising for the M6 so the "redefining lightweight" is beyond me but I believe taking weight from the roof is always a good idea. 👍

Talk about light weight, the fact is, I drive a car that weighs 2600lbs.
Light by most standards.
That said, I'm getting a lot of flack for addressing the fact that a light weight carbon fibre roof is a good thing.

One party knocks it and another says I'll take weight savings from the roof any day.

Kent, we all think the feature is worthwhile. It's just the ad verbage that's a little dodgy. The M6 is not light weight. Not by a long shot. It doesn't "reinvent" anything. It's just some marketing monkey who got a little carried away. BMW is not the only company to do this (everybody does it). But I think they should be called on it when they do.

Now, if the ad read: "The only light weight CFP roof in it's segment", or "Wow, trick roof! Parking lot kudos for sure!" or "The M6 has a blingassed roof that will bring all the hos running", I think it'd read much better.

Stop talking about the damn 6 series. Damn.

Dude, relax. It is tangentally related to the original topic. Light BMWs. Or, in the case of the M6, not so light BMWs.


M

 

[m7ammed]

I like that you like this car, Kent. Really. A lot of jaded (and irrational) people in the BMW community don't seem to be happy unless it weighed less than a Miata, outruns a Cayman S and cost less than a Fit. It's good to see someone with realistic expectations chime in.

I guess people just have a high expectations of BMW, and maybe thats a good thing maybe one day BMW will make car with those specs but it aint the 1 series . I really think the 1 series is a good car .I drove the 4 door hatch with the 1.8 engine and it so much fun, you can through it all over the place. and I'm guessing the coupe would be the same and with the I6 tt then even more .

 

[exigeracer]

I like that you like this car, Kent. Really. A lot of jaded (and irrational) people in the BMW community don't seem to be happy unless it weighed less than a Miata, outruns a Cayman S and cost less than a Fit. It's good to see someone with realistic expectations chime in.

I think it is just because all of these brands keep releasing these cars they claim to be track-oriented, but they still come loaded with all of these creature comforts, just so they can sell them to the dentists and their wives. I am sure that the Tii's weight can be lowered significantly to make it less of a comfortable cruiser and into an edgy racer. I think Porsche and Lotus are currently the only companies who have anything close to this for sale.

We had this discussion on another for recently, it was very interesting to see how it developed. One of the more interesting examples was a customer who went in to check out the new Superleggera Gallardos, which are labeled and marketed as the stripped out racer version of the regular Gallardo. He took one peak in the interior, saw the LCD navigation system and turned around. Although it doesn't add significant weight, it still does not belong in a car of that nature.