BMW to unleash 350bhp "M1"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Leonidae@MFT
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Unfortunately... if you're of the mind who wants nothing but oversteer... no. If you like a car that's very neutral, yes.

But they might be able to program it for lairy slides. I don't really know.
 
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I'm just sayin, because like like Azuremen having crazy technology that can't be fixed in your driveway isn't my idea of "better". Ideally it should never fail without provocation, as you can expect with mechanical solutions, but in actuality that's probably going to be too much to ask.
 
Toronado
Except it really sort of is.
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Clearly, to a bunch of people who weren't even in the planning stage when the original was about, and who can afford neither the original nor the new one when it comes out.

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the M1 and admittedly I'd like to see BMW make one today (though part of me expects they'd spoil it by giving it a ridiculous amount of power, making it way too heavy and then tempering it all with electronics) but I'm not so precious over it that I get in a tizz about BMW wishing to use its simple, logical alphanumeric code to name the M version of the 1-Series.
 
It's kind of Catch 22, M1 is logical because it is an M 1 series. However it implies that it is the latest itteration of the M1, which it clearly isn't. It would be crazy for them to make an SUV that sat above the X5/X6, then call it an M3, for instance.

logical designations based on previous:

135tii (as per the concept / 2002tii)
135 SuperSports (as per it's internal 'working title')
M135i (as per previous models, such as M635CSi, M535i)
135CSi (850CSi was M Gmbh 8 series)
135CS or CSL (as per M3 CS/CSL models)
135M (would follow X5M/X6M/Z4M logic they have applied when badges were already taken)
135 Turbo (as per the 2002 Turbo)

or..

M1
 
MatskiMonk
It's kind of Catch 22, M1 is logical because it is an M 1 series. However it implies that it is the latest itteration of the M1, which it clearly isn't. It would be crazy for them to make an SUV that sat above the X5/X6, then call it an M3, for instance.
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I know what you mean. And I think out of all the ones you chose below, these two are the best possibilities:

M135i (as per previous models, such as M635CSi, M535i)

or..

M1
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I quite like the sound of M135i, but in the current lineup it doesn't fit in as well. It was quite an old scheme of naming, using Mxxxi like the old M535i and M635CSi that you mentioned, and it's something they used before they started the single letter/number combo with the M3 and M5.

At the end of the day, it's plainly clear that BMW aren't trying to replace the old M1 with the new one, they just happen to share the same name (and that's if BMW do go with M1). They aren't urinating all over the old M1's grave by using the same badge so I can't see what all the fuss is about.

Like I mentioned before, the bigger issue for me is that it's full of electronics and hasn't got a four-pot like the E30 M3. I don't give a damn about the name, it's the car that matters!
 
homeforsummer
I don't give a damn about the name, it's the car that matters!
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Hey he's got a point there. Who cares about a stupid name anyway
 
Especially on a manfuacturer that steadfastly refuses to give model names to their cars... instead, relying on an alphanumerical system that they're having an oddly hard time following...

Sidenote: M135CSi sounds like a wonderful name for an upcoming 1-M.
 
Interesting one, though I already knew this quite a while. I agree that I don't care of a stupid name or anything like Apokalipse and HFS said, whatever they wanted to name the car with....

They can't call it as M135i because, this is not the M Sport Version but this is the M version like the M3, M5 and the M6. Unless they made this as the Sport package but it's not the case here. It's kind of confusing anyways to think of the name but whatever it is, name is just a name, the car that matters...
 
Keef
Can you take it out and replace it with an aftermarket one with quicker take-up? Does it read minds?
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Keef
I'm just sayin, because like like Azuremen having crazy technology that can't be fixed in your driveway isn't my idea of "better". Ideally it should never fail without provocation, as you can expect with mechanical solutions, but in actuality that's probably going to be too much to ask.
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What's so crazy about a few lines of code telling a clutch pack to engage or disengage?

Evolutions and GTRs have been doing this sort of thing for... what? 15, 20 years now? This isn't exactly rocket science.

Besides, we already have lines of code that tell throttle butterflys when to open and how fast... How much fuel an injector should squirt (if any at all)... How many times an ABS pump should open and close its valves....

In fact --Would you pull the fuse on the ABS unit in your FC? Because that would be a computer applying the brakes for you. Think about that very carefully.

And most people can't service LSDs in their driveway. They take them to a shop or send them off. A torque vectoring diff isn't any different in that regard to a regular one, except that it's probably a lot more expensive.

A car is a product of technology. A differential is a product of technology. Drawing an arbitrary line between a mechanical clutch pack and a line of code doesn't make any philosophical sense --they are one in the same.


M
 
KidrauhlM5
They can't call it as M135i because, this is not the M Sport Version but this is the M version like the M3, M5 and the M6. Unless they made this as the Sport package but it's not the case here.
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The M635CSi was a proper M car (it featured a version of the M1's engine), in certain markets it was labelled the M6, in others it was labelled the M635CSi... same car, different names - but genuine M car nonetheless.

The M535i was simply an E28 with the 3.5l engine and lots of M-goodies. IIRC that had a dogleg gear box and an LSD, along with suspension and aerodynamic goodies.
 
Oh just call it the M1. Manufacturers dig up old names plenty of times with no link to the original car. Citroen made a C4 in 1928, Skoda made a Superb in 1939, Fiat made a Croma in 1985, and Holden have stuck 'Cruze' on 2 completely different classed cars in the last 3 years.

BMW probably will anyway, if just to save confusion. It'd be very odd to have a full range of M-cars and then call no. 1 in the range something totally different.
 
Even if they do call it M1, I quite like the idea of a smaller, a little less powerful alternative to the M3 as long as they make it lighter. BTW doesn't the M3 weigh 1680 kg? It says 1580 in the article.
 
The official weight of the M3 Coupe according to BMW NA is 3,704 lbs. which is 1,680 kg.

This is most probably based on the DIN weight, which includes a 68 kg driver and 7 kg of luggage.

Without a driver, the curb weight of an M3 Coupe should be ~3,538 lbs, depending on options (such as a sunroof). Car and Driver weighed their EU Spec test M3 on a track scale and got 3,571 lbs.


It does not feel like a 3500 lb. car when you drive it. It handles better than my E36 M3s ever did.


M
 
If they made a M version of the three door version (sure, it's ugly, but nowhere near as ugly as the coupe) and lightened it by, say, 200 kg they'd have a car many people would like to see. Seriously, how can that thing weigh a ton and a half while being so small that my (with a height of 5'8") hair brushes the ceiling and the rear window can just about be touched from the driver's seat? That's not compact class weight, more like a full size estate weight. Hell, my father drives a full size estate that has semi-leather interior, AC, airbags pretty much everywhere, sunroof, the usual bells and whistles you'd expect from a 21st century car and still weighs under a ton and a half... something doesn't match here.
 
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homeforsummer
Clearly, to a bunch of people who weren't even in the planning stage when the original was about, and who can afford neither the original nor the new one when it comes out.
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So? Its also very likely that way to people who can afford both.
You asked why people are throwing fits if BMW calls it the M1, because it is no big deal if they call it that. Except it is a big deal, regardless of whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind it.
 
MatskiMonk
Us Bimmerphiles (a.k.a. BMW Nerds :D )
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I am a "Bimmerphile", but at the end of the day if you had to pick between a good car with a bad name and a bad car with a good name, regardless of price. What would you pick?
 
MatskiMonk
The M535i was simply an E28 with the 3.5l engine and lots of M-goodies. IIRC that had a dogleg gear box and an LSD, along with suspension and aerodynamic goodies.
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👍 The M535i basically was an M5 before they'd decided to name it as such when the following model came out. Like the M635CSi, it was still basically an M car.

Jondot
Oh just call it the M1. Manufacturers dig up old names plenty of times with no link to the original car. Citroen made a C4 in 1928, Skoda made a Superb in 1939, Fiat made a Croma in 1985, and Holden have stuck 'Cruze' on 2 completely different classed cars in the last 3 years.

BMW probably will anyway, if just to save confusion. It'd be very odd to have a full range of M-cars and then call no. 1 in the range something totally different.
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👍

Toronado
So? Its also very likely that way to people who can afford both.
You asked why people are throwing fits if BMW calls it the M1, because it is no big deal if they call it that. Except it is a big deal, regardless of whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind it.
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Let people drive it. Then ask them if they really care that it shares the name of a 70s/80s supercar or not. I suspect they won't.

If it's awful, then sure, it might be a big deal. But even then, BMW aren't claiming it's a re-make. It's just a name.
 
Toronado
So? Its also very likely that way to people who can afford both.
You asked why people are throwing fits if BMW calls it the M1, because it is no big deal if they call it that. Except it is a big deal, regardless of whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind it.
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On the other hand, it's a big deal only if you want to make it a big deal.

Some people buying the car couldn't care less if the car has the same name as a BMW supercar from several decades ago. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
 
homeforsummer
👍 The M535i basically was an M5 before they'd decided to name it as such when the following model came out. Like the M635CSi, it was still basically an M car.
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Both the E12 and E28 M535i had the standard M30 engines IIRC, same that was used in the standard 635CSi. The M635CSi is abit more special because it had a different engine to the standard 635CSi, it had a version of the engine used in the M1, as did the E28 M5.

E28 M5 > E28 M535i
E24 M635CSi/M6 > E24 635CSi
 
homeforsummer
Let people drive it. Then ask them if they really care that it shares the name of a 70s/80s supercar or not. I suspect they won't.
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Chrysler_300M.jpg

^ All told a fantastic car. 11 years later, you still find Mopar heads who wish Chrysler had called it something else. Keep in mind that this is the same company that sold a gussied-up Dodge Omni 024 as a Charger for half a decade, and even that didn't get them used to the idea of dragging classic names into completely different cars. So I'm guessing, if BMW does decide to call this M1 even though they have plenty of viable alternate names, that it could be the next Honda S2000 of driver's cars and it still wouldn't be very well liked.
 
MatskiMonk
Both the E12 and E28 M535i had the standard M30 engines IIRC, same that was used in the standard 635CSi. The M635CSi is abit more special because it had a different engine to the standard 635CSi, it had a version of the engine used in the M1, as did the E28 M5.

E28 M5 > E28 M535i
E24 M635CSi/M6 > E24 635CSi
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Ah, my mistake - I'm not fully clued up on model designations. I was thinking of the M"xxx" version of whatever preceded the E28 - it was essentially an M5 without it being named as such. It also only weighed 1100kg or so, so it was probably quite good fun with a straight six...
 
Sorry but an M1?? I'm surprised they haven't learned their lesson by building that stupid X6M. No one would want one because for these following reasons:
1. BMW is a "ooh look I'm rich car.
2. Why not get something else than an M1 for the same price (Mustang, Camaro, Lancer, Impreza)
3. The idea of having a car the size of a Hyundai Accent (which are totally awesome in my opinion) that produces 350hp is ridiculous.
4. Not practical
5. Why the 1 series? BMW just cannot be making an M model for EVERY line of cars they have. The M3 and M5 is reasonable. M6, ok, you have a mid-life crisis and you don't have anything else to spend on. X5M, ok you want a sporty SUV. But the X6 M is just utterly stupid because clearly BMW spent money on taking a hideous car and improving performance than making it look better. I have to be honest but it looks as ugly as the Lincoln MKT. Now they built an M1???!!! Come on BMW, you have other problems on your hand and you advance without correcting your problems first???
 
Toronado
^ All told a fantastic car. 11 years later, you still find Mopar heads who wish Chrysler had called it something else. Keep in mind that this is the same company that sold a gussied-up Dodge Omni 024 as a Charger for half a decade, and even that didn't get them used to the idea of dragging classic names into completely different cars. So I'm guessing, if BMW does decide to call this M1 even though they have plenty of viable alternate names, that it could be the next Honda S2000 of driver's cars and it still wouldn't be very well liked.
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Sorry Toronado, didn't see your post before - I suspect we posted at more or less the same time.

What's that car, the 300 I'm guessing (doesn't someone on here have one)? Is the new 300C considered a worthy carrier of the name?

My point is that there aren't really any viable alternatives to the "M1" name. If anything, the original M1 was illogically named, given that it wasn't based on a "1 Series". The M3 and M5 were based on the 3er and 5er, so why was the M1 an M1 if it's not based on a 1er? (Note: I'm aware the M1 came before the other two, but still...).

People complaining about the name just strikes me as a bit "Montague vs. Capulet".

NissanSkylineN1
Sorry but an M1?? I'm surprised they haven't learned their lesson by building that stupid X6M. No one would want one because for these following reasons:
1. BMW is a "ooh look I'm rich car. Erm... hasn't stopped people buying every other BMW throughout history... and do you think people who buy Porsches, Ferraris, AMG Mercs and all other manner of performance cars are doing it for the "ooh look I'm a rich car" factor?...
2. Why not get something else than an M1 for the same price (Mustang, Camaro, Lancer, Impreza) Because people like BMWs. None of the cars you mention are remotely on the same level for engineering and argueably on driving experience.
3. The idea of having a car the size of a Hyundai Accent (which are totally awesome in my opinion) that produces 350hp is ridiculous. So you like the Accent, but not a 350bhp 1-Series? Right. And I can't believe I'm saying this as a notorious supporter of low powered cars, but you seriously don't think that 350bhp in something as compact as that is a good thing?...
4. Not practical Neither is my MX5, but it's still awesome. And I could fit a whole lot more stuff and people in an M1. I vote this irrelevant
5. Why the 1 series? BMW just cannot be making an M model for EVERY line of cars they have. The M3 and M5 is reasonable. M6, ok, you have a mid-life crisis and you don't have anything else to spend on. X5M, ok you want a sporty SUV. But the X6 M is just utterly stupid because clearly BMW spent money on taking a hideous car and improving performance than making it look better. I have to be honest but it looks as ugly as the Lincoln MKT. Now they built an M1???!!! Come on BMW, you have other problems on your hand and you advance without correcting your problems first??? What exactly *is* this problem they need to correct? As far as I'm aware they're doing quite well for themselves... doesn't seem like there's a lot of fixing needed.
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Replies added as appropriate. What problem do you actually have with the M1? From the dubious list you've written it doesn't seem like there's any logic behind it...
 
It will not succeed in the market. Not enough potential buyers.
Their problem they need to correct is the X6. Also, I think 350 hp from a car that small is just too much.
 
NissanSkylineN1
It will not succeed in the market. Not enough potential buyers.
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I disagree. It's a BMW. They have potential buyers clambering over themselves to buy every model they release.

Their problem they need to correct is the X6.
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Why? Again, it seems to be selling quite nicely. Sure, it's not the prettiest of things, but once again BMW have seen a niche in the market and expolited it. There's no correcting needed there as far as I can see.

Also, I think 350 hp from a car that small is just too much.
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I do actually agree with you on that point, at least partly. For a fairly lardy little coupe like the 1er it's probably about right to extract the sort of performance you'd expect from an M car, but had I been in charge of developing the car myself, I'd have stripped away 300kg and given it a 250bhp instead four-pot that revs to 9k. Similar outright performance (though probably not quite as relaxed...) but so much more of an E30 M3 successor.

But then that car probably wouldn't sell... :sly:
 
Wow. The first controversial car that I absolutely feel nothing for. Call it whatever. I don't care.

The possible starting price is nice appearing...but will surely balloon into M3 territory with a few options tacked on...and considering that the MINI Cooper S kinda has this territory staked out as well...
 
I don't think this car is anywhere near comparable to a Mini Cooper S...

The only real similarity between the two is that they are relatively small.
 
And obviously you and Top Gear's opinion are the only ones that matter in regards to the sales of the X6.
 
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