BMW to unleash 350bhp "M1"

[NissanSkylineN1]

And obviously you and Top Gear's opinion are the only ones that matter in regards to the sales of the X6.

Not necessarily. But they still are an opinion though by many other people too. For example, if you have Mozilla Firefox, in the top left corner in the Google search box, I typed BMW X6 ug". What came under it as a suggestion was "BMW X6 Ugly". It must have been a suggestion for some reason...

 

[The Outlaw]

It still sells perfectly well though, even in this crap economy. So realistically, why waste the money redesigning/retooling the X-6 design? (which is the main point)

Some people may thing it's ugly, but despite that, BMW is still able to sell the volume they projected and set out to to sell, prior to production.

 

[niky]

RE: X6. Ugly is an opinion.

Does it look unusual. Hell yes. It doesn't look like anything else on the road. But the lines themselves aren't "ugly". Not ugly in the sense that a 1-series hatch or an X3 is ugly. There are no unusual or awkward shut lines or distorted light fixtures... it's not a mis-shapen lump of... something... like the 5-GT. Instead, the X6 looks like a prettier and sleeker version of the X5, with a coupe-like roofline.

People think it's ugly because it looks like a sportscar on stilts. Because it's something different. I actually find it refreshingly original.

Yeah... an SUV that only seats four people is kind of... well... useless... for regular SUV things... but so are most five-seat SUVs.... or even seven-seat SUVs. Hell... most SUVs are useless, period... which is why the X6 is refreshing. It revels in its own uselessness... not like others that make a pretense at utility.

And it drives like a fricking sports-car on stilts.

I am a "Bimmerphile", but at the end of the day if you had to pick between a good car with a bad name and a bad car with a good name, regardless of price. What would you pick?

And who's saying the M1 will be a bad car?

Flinty ride aside (curable by ditching the runflats... which the M-Division does with all its M-cars), the pug-ugly 1-series is a hoot-and-a-half to drive. And then some. With a host of M-upgrades... it should be even better.

 

[///M-Spec]

It will not succeed in the market. Not enough potential buyers.

And you know this for a fact... how, exactly?


M

 

[Apok]

And who's saying the M1 will be a bad car?

Flinty ride aside (curable by ditching the runflats... which the M-Division does with all its M-cars), the pug-ugly 1-series is a hoot-and-a-half to drive. And then some. With a host of M-upgrades... it should be even better.

No it will be a great car. I am saying, that if it will be a great car (which it will)
the name doesn't really matter anymore. It is just a name. However it would be nice if they found a suitable compromise I doubt everyone will be happy.

 

[ND4SPD]

Wonder if they'll just call it a 1 series sdrive35is haha. When I think M1 I think Abrams.

 

[homeforsummer]

Their problem they need to correct is the X6.

Why? Again, it seems to be selling quite nicely. Sure, it's not the prettiest of things, but once again BMW have seen a niche in the market and expolited it. There's no correcting needed there as far as I can see.

I disagree with Homeforsummer. The X6 is a hideous car. Even TopGear says so:
http://foreman.blogs.topgear.com/2009/01/23/wtf-car-awards-bmw-x6/

Does not compute.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Not necessarily. But they still are an opinion though by many other people too. For example, if you have Mozilla Firefox, in the top left corner in the Google search box, I typed BMW X6 ug". What came under it as a suggestion was "BMW X6 Ugly". It must have been a suggestion for some reason...

That is the most ridiculously 🤬 stupid argument I've ever heard, closely followed by taking Jeremy Clarkson opinion on something as Gospel.

If you don't like the X6 fine... but just state it as an opinion, don't try and back it up with such completely 🤬 arguments.

had I been in charge of developing the car myself, I'd have stripped away 300kg and given it a 250bhp instead four-pot that revs to 9k. Similar outright performance (though probably not quite as relaxed...) but so much more of an E30 M3 successor

I'm guessing now, but I think it's easier (read: Cheaper) to add power, than to shed weight, and the last thing the 1mDrive35i (?) would need is to genuinely be treading on the toes of the M3 price wise.

 

[Heath_1]

it's like a baby M3. I can just see people putting bumper stickers on them saying "When I grow up, I want to be an M3!"

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Any way, sorry for the stupid X6 argument there MatskiMonk. Back to the point that this thread was created for. The M1. I'm just saying why would they make an M1? It just doesn't make sense to me! I really do not know why it doesn't make sense either. When I just think if an M1 it just turns me off car-wise.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm guessing now, but I think it's easier (read: Cheaper) to add power, than to shed weight, and the last thing the 1mDrive35i (?) would need is to genuinely be treading on the toes of the M3 price wise.

You're very probably correct. Ironically though, adding weight, power and equipment is probably easier for them to sell at a premium too, as well as being cheaper to produce. If they stripped the weight they'd have a hard time selling it for as much as people aren't willing to pay more for less.

Though that said, the M3 CSL is evidence to the contrary.

I'm just saying why would they make an M1? It just doesn't make sense to me! I really do not know why it doesn't make sense either. When I just think if an M1 it just turns me off car-wise.

The real question is why not make the M1? It's essentially the embodiment of a car that BMW fans have been crying out for for ages, a spiritual successor to the E30 M3 when every generation of M3 since has got bigger, heavier and more complicated (though amazingly still managed to remain proper drivers cars).

I'm not remotely in a financial position to afford an M1, but if I was the M3 and M5 wouldn't even be on my radar. Hell, I'd have a 118d Coupe if I could, let alone an M1. For me the 1-Series is one of the most appealing cars BMW makes. I know that I'm in a minority on this forum with that view (though I suspect Leonidae would agree with me), but you see plenty on the roads so I'm sure there are owners of regular 135i models out there itching to get their hands on an M1.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'm not remotely in a financial position to afford an M1, but if I was the M3 and M5 wouldn't even be on my radar. Hell, I'd have a 118d Coupe if I could, let alone an M1. For me the 1-Series is one of the most appealing cars BMW makes. I know that I'm in a minority on this forum with that view (though I suspect Leonidae would agree with me), but you see plenty on the roads so I'm sure there are owners of regular 135i models out there itching to get their hands on an M1.

I suspect that there are thousands of people out there for whom an M3 is just about possible, but just a little too much to justify (myself for example -- I could afford an M3, it would just mean foregoing on the little luxuries, like gas, electric, water, food and shelter )

 

[///M-Spec]

Any way, sorry for the stupid X6 argument there MatskiMonk. Back to the point that this thread was created for. The M1. I'm just saying why would they make an M1? It just doesn't make sense to me! I really do not know why it doesn't make sense either. When I just think if an M1 it just turns me off car-wise.

In 1994, an M3 cost around $38,000 in the US.

An M3 now costs $58,000 USD. $70,000 if you option it up.

Even adjusting for inflation, the M3 has been moved significantly upmarket.

Which leaves a hole in market where the M3 used to be. Where the 335i and 135i isn't quite the right product.

The US is the largest market for BMW M cars.

Starting to make sense yet?


M

 

[Jondot]

Not necessarily. But they still are an opinion though by many other people too. For example, if you have Mozilla Firefox, in the top left corner in the Google search box, I typed BMW X6 ug". What came under it as a suggestion was "BMW X6 Ugly". It must have been a suggestion for some reason...

Well yeah, because you wrote 'ug' on the end. I mean what else is it going to display - BMW X6 Ugg Boots?

 

[Philly]

Though that said, the M3 CSL is evidence to the contrary.

Anybody is going to be able to make a special edition of a car and sell it for more, especially if it's what the enthusiast wants (like light weight). But for the general public who won't use it for anything other than daily commuting, more features, power and weight are a bonus.

If they actually built a tii version for production under 3,000 lb with the I6 out of the 128, they'd have a sweet car. Or if they managed to trim it down a lot and put a Cooper S engine in there that'd be pretty awesome too.

If they had a nice, light tii version for enthusiasts, then I think I wouldn't have much of a problem with a somewhat heavier M1 with the I6 out of the 135 but tuned up a bit with a little weight drop and a more aggressive personality. But then you have to wonder what that car would accomplish. It's already on par with the Cayman S, TTS and even the 370Z. So anything faster would really just be silly and unnecessary.

 

[JB-BMW1989]

They should call it the 135i M than calling it the M1. The M1 is a race car, not a compact coupe.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

I think that the clever marketing department of BMW knows what they should and should not call it. But, I would love to see a hatchback version too since I feel that it has been neglected after the awkwardly proportioned coupe came out.

 

[homeforsummer]

If they had a nice, light tii version for enthusiasts, then I think I wouldn't have much of a problem with a somewhat heavier M1 with the I6 out of the 135 but tuned up a bit with a little weight drop and a more aggressive personality.

I agree 👍

But then you have to wonder what that car would accomplish. It's already on par with the Cayman S, TTS and even the 370Z. So anything faster would really just be silly and unnecessary.

Essentially, it gives BMW something that can beat all those cars (and I presume you meant the TT-RS, rather than just the S). Still, I'd prefer the Cayman to an M1.

 

[Stotty]

I'd have no issues calling it M1... the M1 happened years ago and exists now only in the memories of a few enthusiasts... the main bulk of prospective M1 owners wouldn't even have heard of the original M1.

As far as the car itself is concerned, I hear all the 'they should build a lighter version with a tuned 4cyl', but this isn't a realistic thing to expect... modern cars are heavy for a reason... we all want a decent level of build quality and high level of safety. These things cannot be engineered out as they are part of the bottom-up design and build process. The equipment that makes a car convienient for us in day to day driving isn't that heavy as a percentage of the car's weight so there isn't a huge amount of weight BMW could cut out of the car... maybe no electric seats, no leather, but things like electric windows and AC aren't that heavy.

And whilst the current 135i might have similar straight line performance to the TT-RS and base Caymen, it doesn't have the same level of cornering ability... that's the thing that an M version should really address.

If the M1/135iM (or whatever) has around 350bhp, weighs <1,500kg and costs c.£35,000 without extras, I think there would be a big market for it in the UK.

 

[The Outlaw]

I would have to agree 👍

Except for the 135i having similar straight line acceleration to a base Cayman. The Cayman S and 135i are quite similar in straight line performance, but not the BASE Cayman.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'd have no issues calling it M1... the M1 happened years ago and exists now only in the memories of a few enthusiasts... the main bulk of prospective M1 owners wouldn't even have heard of the original M1.

As far as the car itself is concerned, I hear all the 'they should build a lighter version with a tuned 4cyl', but this isn't a realistic thing to expect... modern cars are heavy for a reason... we all want a decent level of build quality and high level of safety. These things cannot be engineered out as they are part of the bottom-up design and build process. The equipment that makes a car convienient for us in day to day driving isn't that heavy as a percentage of the car's weight so there isn't a huge amount of weight BMW could cut out of the car... maybe no electric seats, no leather, but things like electric windows and AC aren't that heavy.

And whilst the current 135i might have similar straight line performance to the TT-RS and base Caymen, it doesn't have the same level of cornering ability... that's the thing that an M version should really address.

If the M1/135iM (or whatever) has around 350bhp, weighs <1,500kg and costs c.£35,000 without extras, I think there would be a big market for it in the UK.

 

[niky]

Better if it were the same driver... I'm starting to get the feeling Tiff isn't quite as good as Plato (over the past few comparisons I've seen them...)... their segment is fun, but they really should take turns driving both cars.
Other results suggest (as much as any testing not done on the same day by the same drive car suggest) the Cayman is faster than a regular 135i.

I'd have no issues calling it M1... the M1 happened years ago and exists now only in the memories of a few enthusiasts... the main bulk of prospective M1 owners wouldn't even have heard of the original M1.

As far as the car itself is concerned, I hear all the 'they should build a lighter version with a tuned 4cyl', but this isn't a realistic thing to expect... modern cars are heavy for a reason... we all want a decent level of build quality and high level of safety. These things cannot be engineered out as they are part of the bottom-up design and build process. The equipment that makes a car convienient for us in day to day driving isn't that heavy as a percentage of the car's weight so there isn't a huge amount of weight BMW could cut out of the car... maybe no electric seats, no leather, but things like electric windows and AC aren't that heavy.

And whilst the current 135i might have similar straight line performance to the TT-RS and base Caymen, it doesn't have the same level of cornering ability... that's the thing that an M version should really address.

If the M1/135iM (or whatever) has around 350bhp, weighs <1,500kg and costs c.£35,000 without extras, I think there would be a big market for it in the UK.

Y'know... with BMW promising to give the new 3-series a 3-cylinder turbocharged engine... a future iteration of the 1-series which is lightweight and powered by a shtonking turbo-4 might not be that far off.

 

[homeforsummer]

Better if it were the same driver... I'm starting to get the feeling Tiff isn't quite as good as Plato (over the past few comparisons I've seen them...)... their segment is fun, but they really should take turns driving both cars.

You wouldn't be wrong. Think about it logically - Tiff is a very talented, yet part time racing driver. Plato is a paid, full-time driver and one of the best tin-top drivers in the world (who also has the second greatest number of wins ever in the BTCC now and could reach first this year). Good and entertaining though Tiff is, he's not a patch on Plato at actual racing. Did you know that Tiff is nearly 60 now too? His reactions must be ebbing away a bit anyway...

 

[Stotty]

Y'know... with BMW promising to give the new 3-series a 3-cylinder turbocharged engine... a future iteration of the 1-series which is lightweight and powered by a stonking turbo-4 might not be that far off.

I have no issue with that as long as the car is designed and engineered from the ground up with the objective of creating a lighter car... that way a smaller engine would work properly.

 

[MatskiMonk]

You wouldn't be wrong. Think about it logically - Tiff is a very talented, yet part time racing driver. Plato is a paid, full-time driver and one of the best tin-top drivers in the world (who also has the second greatest number of wins ever in the BTCC now and could reach first this year). Good and entertaining though Tiff is, he's not a patch on Plato at actual racing. Did you know that Tiff is nearly 60 now too? His reactions must be ebbing away a bit anyway...

lol... if in doubt, blame the driver!

Seriously though, Stiff Needell is a legend... he may be getting on a bit but he's got a lot more experience than Plato.

It's a pretty close match, and that's why I posted that clip... the fact the standard 135i matches (if not beats) the Cayman, says volumes about BMW's entry level car. The M1 version will kick ass!

 

[lpb-nissan-gt-r]

It will not succeed in the market. Not enough potential buyers.
Their problem they need to correct is the X6. Also, I think 350 hp from a car that small is just too much.

Whoa the 1 series coupe is a really good looking car and if my parents had the money then I would advise them to get it, because it has the recipe to be an awesome car and although it may appear to not have market demand there may still be one without anyone realising.

P.S the x6 is an awesome car because it is different.

 

[The Outlaw]

Well, I'm not sure of the absolute validity of this particular test, but for the most part, the Cayman S seems to get the better of the 135i in most cases...which to me is to be expected since it is just as quick in a straightline while carrying a lot less weight in the corners.

Although it most be noted that some of these times aren't same day, same driver/conditions

Track---------------------------------Cayman S-----135i Coupe (E82)

Nordschleife------------------------------8:11-----------8:39.2
Tsukuba-------------------------------- 1:06.59--------1:07.860
Hockenheim Short------------------------1:15.5---------1:17.4
Laguna Seca--------------------------1:42.95 (PDK)-----1:46.0
Virginia International Raceway------------3:09.5----------3:13.7
Autozeitung test track-------------------1:41.2----------1:46.9
Balocco---------------------------------2:55.09---------3:01.24
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours---------1:28.35 (wet)---1:29.75 (wet)

 

[Div is back]

The M1 is definately what I have been waiting for from BMW. A true successor to the E46 M3, not a fat luxury coupe that the M3 now is.

I'll be on the list for one. Count me in.

 

[niky]

Fat, the M3 is... luxury... it isn't... not as much as the competition or the M5.

 

[homeforsummer]

lol... if in doubt, blame the driver!

Seriously though, Stiff Needell is a legend... he may be getting on a bit but he's got a lot more experience than Plato.

It's a pretty close match, and that's why I posted that clip... the fact the standard 135i matches (if not beats) the Cayman, says volumes about BMW's entry level car. The M1 version will kick ass!

I'm not disputing that one car is better than the other or vice-versa, but it's worth remembering that experience =/= talent. Tiff may have been racing since Plato was a kid but the numbers speak for themselves.

I seem to remember that Plato came from the Renault Sport Spider series that supported the BTCC and absolutely dominated it in 1996, the year before Renault hired him to partner Menu. The only other driver I can remember with a better Spider record is... Andy Priaulx, who I think won every race in the season he won the Spider championship. They've both gone on to huge success in touring cars.

Tiff is definitely good, but he's not up to the level of top-flight racers.

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic...