BODY RIGIDITY DETERIORATES WAY TOO FAST

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by dixonbaps, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. dixonbaps

    dixonbaps

    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    England
    That's sure gonna help when in the middle of a championship in a nearly new high powered race car and then your suspension becomes shot before the end of said championship and you have to give-up and repair with those possible 6,000,000 bonus credits and restart the championship. It's not just about the cost of the repair (which is too high on some cars IMO). It's also to do with the distance being way too low at just 350 miles!

    The high payout's have eased the burden of repair cost a little in the short term, but not fixed the issue.

    If it's not changed then any possible endurance race or championship over 350 miles that gets put into GT6 in the future will become obsolete before it's ever run do to the fact that you won't be able to finish it.

    Now the bonus 6,000,000 Credits will be very welcome if they add the ability to repair stuff like rigidity in the pit. Until then this is a problem that I'm sure quite a few people want fixing.
     
  2. CarBastard

    CarBastard

    Messages:
    4,741
    Location:
    Colombia
    From the makers of "OMG GUYZ ITZ JOST PLACEHOLDER SOUNDS!!!" and "U GOYS SO RIDICULOS DAY ONE PATCH WILL FIX EVERTHING!!!"...
     
    Magic Ayrton and mister dog like this.
  3. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

    Messages:
    5,973
    Location:
    Australia
    As a long time GT player, I've put up with Kaz' various eccentricities throughout the years (and I even liked some of them), but engine/chassis restoration is something I could never understand. It just adds nothing to the fun factor. Just oil change and car wash is enough for the maintenance aspect. The reason why we play games is because it simulates the best aspects of reality without the limitations of real life. I really hope they patch this, increase the distance driven before needing restore, lower the price considerably and increase seasonal payouts. Otherwise what's the point of a driving game where you're scared to drive your cars?
     
  4. superstreet556

    superstreet556

    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    United States
    I lost 6 horsepower in my Impreza at 216 miles, even though the game said that the oil was in good condition. I did an oil change and it returned to normal. Did this happen to anyone else?
     
    przemekszulim and OdeFinn like this.
  5. dixonbaps

    dixonbaps

    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    England
    It's been like that since GT5 and probably before. With the price of an oil change and it not having a great effect on performance it's something that is overlooked a great deal and is a little pointless IMO. You only lose a few HP's then it stops at some point and if you change the oil on a brand new car you gain HP's for some unknown reason. The only thing noticed with the change in HP is the PP.
     
    Tenacious D and Swagger897 like this.
  6. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

    Messages:
    6,304
    Location:
    United States
    Maybe we buy walmart refilled pennzoil and then the oil change gives us some of that shell stuff
     
  7. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

    Messages:
    6,304
    Location:
    United States
    Wow... Somehow I overlooked this post. Realizing now how in almost all driving modes it will add wear and tear to you car is quite a joke, and now a seemingly impossible scam to avoid. I am starting to believe we are being involved in a purge for micro-transactions. I will be very interested if I could find a statistic as to how many people/ the amount sold have bought them to see if we are being played by PD.

    An analogy for this scenario would be similar to the simple task of brushing your teeth. You buy you console (teeth). You buy GT6 (toothbrush) and then you race to get cars with credits (toothpaste). Now in GT5, my toothpaste lasted me a long time. Never had to worry if I was running low on it, as I could manage my usage by limiting the amount I used every day and night. If I did get low, I'd go out to the track, to win more toothpaste (credits).
    However, in GT 6, it's a bit harder to get toothpaste where I live. Although it's readily available, I always seem to run out of it, as soon as I get back home, without even using it. I keep overspending on toothpaste, but nothing else. Then one day, my government made it easier to get more toothpaste, by allowing people to buy from home, rather than going to the store. Prices were ridiculous though but sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do.
    Now I find myself in a bit of a sticky situation. Do I pay more for something which will go away as easy as it comes? Or do I continue the old method of going to get it myself?

    Now tell me please, how that story shouldn't be in GTPedia... Anyways, it's getting out of hand while PD seems to be over stuffing ourselves with content, a lot of people are being sold short. I have a feeling that PD really pushed GT6 to get it out as they were in a cash strap scenario. I mean, we are seeing world wide advertisement over the last year, which has never been seen or even heard of by them, ever. It may be just growth, but it may be that we are going to have to pay for the blunt and obvious mistakes PD has made by not listening thoroughly to customers. And the easiest reply to that would be sounds. Sure Pd want to get the whole sim down and all, but is what they're putting out what their consumers want? It appears as a big fat no, one elephant too large not to be seen. Yes it has been brought up, but how long will it take to get a new car to sound as it does? Look at NFS. I remember playing NFS U2 and they had about the same sounds, if not better than GT did. Now you can look to see how far they have come and notice we hasn't PD followed their business model?

    I can't give a definitive answer on that, but it seems to me we will see this "interest" like gaming industry rise too fast. It's soon about to treat customers like those from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. Where monopolies controlled the prices of most goods they were a part of and had no say by the government as they were too weak. We are the government, and we need to make a stop to this. A bit dramatic? Yes. Making a point? Yes. It's only a matter of time before something happens and I just want that to be before GT7 comes out.. Better than that, before the first paying DLC comes out for Gt6
     
    Geopan973 likes this.
  8. raven214

    raven214

    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    United States
    Well said! Why is body rigidity deterioration even in the game to begin with? It feels more like a gameplay mechanism than simulation - perhaps it's meant as a credit (and now money?) sink. We should be enjoying our cars when we drive them, not counting every mile in terms of restoration cost. The mileages seem to be screwed up - oil changes should be due long before a body restore. PD needs to fix this ASAP.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  9. MiniMax

    MiniMax

    Messages:
    32
    I find the body rigidity "feature" to be ridiculous if the the intent is to add realism. I mean: no damage, unlimited tires for a fixed price, shortcutting tracks with no effect on car and so on. In GT5 there was a small handling effect if you knocked the doors off the car but it was not realistic at all. By the realism and pride of ownership argument, you should buy new sets of tires after every race and a new car every crash (even if there is no damage recorded). I know that that would make the game unplayable, think about the license tests at the former level of difficulty!

    The comment regarding 24 hour races worries me, PD will have to change something since the car will wear out multiple times in a single race. 4 hour pit stops to restore the chassis?
     
    raven214 and Virghilian like this.
  10. Jump_Ace

    Jump_Ace Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    8,236
    Location:
    United States
    Anyone else just skip the body rigidity all together and never have to worry about paying $$$ for it or the car handling poor? I've never done it to any car, never had a reason to.


    Jerome
     
    Flaco13, Uk_viper76 and ildd like this.
  11. Syrius

    Syrius

    Messages:
    27
    I have just finished the three races of the MR Challenge in the National A series with a Ferrari F40, the car had around 800 (~500 miles) km before entering the first race, the yellow warning had already been on for a while in the pit service screen. In the last race at Apricot Hill I could clearly feel the steering wobbling slightly in the main straight, not so much as to prevent me finishing the race but it certainly increased my workload at the wheel. I use a T500 steering wheel and it is rock solid in a straight line, so it was definitely the car handling going south. After the races I went to the pit service with the car's mileage at ~850 km (~530 miles) and I now can feel it back in shape, no more wobbling. Cost of servicing for the F40=225.000 credits. Can't say I'm a happy costumer...

    Cheers,
    S.
     
    raven214 and umafeckit like this.
  12. srefre

    srefre

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Just a thought, does anyone know if the saying "Prevention is better than cure" applies in this case? Does doing the cheaper body rigidity work before the rigidity has gone have a preventative effect?
     
  13. azeeza

    azeeza

    Messages:
    724
    Play clean
     
  14. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

    Messages:
    6,304
    Location:
    United States
    There are many posts that have wondered about that in here but those who have done as you say, have found no luck in a solution. Many here however attested to that at the 350~ or so mile mark and said it did nothing! rather than once every race.

    But then again, here is my point on this and every other bug/defect from PD:

    If you cannot solve the issue, tell us. We don't want a work around saying do this in order to fix this. No... It isn't fixed, and I won't try to waste time and credits/money to get around a bogus excuse. Although I haven't seen any physical proof, it's what PD has been feeding me and others for a long time. Once again, easily can relate to sounds as how it should not be that hard as they are making it out to be to get high quality reproductions of the real life counterparts. Almost every other game out there now with a decent cash pocket can do it so why can't PD? And I feel as if I answered that with my longer post above...
     
  15. Sean YZF

    Sean YZF

    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My McLaren BMW F1 needs 500k cr spent on it after 325 miles. I have been a tad rough with it tho. The Ring can be tough, Ha. Thought it a bit excessive. 20k cr b ok. However, it is making me think bout buying a similar car instead. Till the price of repair comes down, or i'll end up with a garage full of *****d cars.
     
  16. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

    Messages:
    6,304
    Location:
    United States
    That's what I fear might happen... As we all know well with GT5, it seemed as if with every new patch a bug was put in and a bug from the patch before (or update for that matter) was made worse. If this goes unnoticed, it may be devastating as how they used to get around with things.

    However, I can see for some cars that doing a restoration may be cheaper rather than buying a new one and upgraded, but think of this restoration issues as interest. It comes almost like on a monthly schedule and adds up over time. The time it takes where it will be cheaper to buy a new car rather to hold onto the old and decrepped may come soon. That's what I fear most.. Especially with my 15 AE cars...
     
  17. mister dog

    mister dog (Banned)

    Messages:
    8,396
    Location:
    Belgium
    225.000 bucks after 850 km's :lol:
    I think if life would be the "real GT simulator" nobody would dare to step in a car anymore...
    What a game ruining flaw this is man, wonder if and when they are actually gonna patch it.

    Best remark so far! :bowdown:
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
    Swagger897 likes this.
  18. dixonbaps

    dixonbaps

    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    England
    It's not just any cars, It's the high race cars/LMP's. I think that's why it's a not so big problem for most. I got this on a Bentley Speed 8 and the handling was shot to bits like my suspension was made of chewing gum. As an experiment I serviced the rigidity back to normal and ran Like The Wind around Indy for 30x 5 Laps (another 375 miles or so) and got the same thing again. So I when back on the Dream Car Championship at the Nurburgring and again the Speed 8 was all over the place due to the rigidity/suspension problem. In smaller race cars/street cars it's not nearly as exaggerated as with the high end race cars/LMP's. I like doing the Dream Car Championship, it's one of my favourite events. But I can't afford to do it and will not enjoy it if I have to keep paying 500,000 credits every 350 miles just because of this. Also if PD do introduce the endurances back with the mentioned B-Spec that's coming soon then any event with an LMP will become very hard to try and finish if it's over 350 miles. You certainly couldn't finish the Nurburgring 24 hour endurance in an LMP that's for sure. I think it's something that shouldn't be in the game at all but that's PD for you, they programmed it that way.
     
  19. Jump_Ace

    Jump_Ace Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    8,236
    Location:
    United States
    That isn't cool and yea PD should fix that. Makes me wonder how much testing they actually do before a release.

    Or, maybe you guys are just too RUF on your cars?


    Jerome
     
    Swagger897 and dixonbaps like this.
  20. Swagger897

    Swagger897 Premium

    Messages:
    6,304
    Location:
    United States
    There is a lot of testing I want to know about they do, or matter f fact actual research on the damn cars before they release.

    Since when does an R18 only have a 3 lap racing hard tyre window, and (I'll give them this) maybe not an exact but close 10 lap fuel range around Le Mans? It blows my mind to see how horrible tyre degradation is. I just want to race, but be able to put with actual tyre conditions applied.

    Sickening almost
     
    raven214 likes this.
  21. HBR-Roadhog

    HBR-Roadhog

    Messages:
    6,282
    Location:
    United States
    I have several cars now that show the yellow indicator for rigidity but none of them show any sign of issue other than that icon. I did have one that was a bit slower than it had been and the icon was yellow. I changed the oil and the car did just like it did before, the oil indicator was not yellow yet but the car had dropped 21hp. My lap times went right back to where I expected them to be. As a test I bought a new car and put the same tune on it changed the oil and there was no detectable difference between between the new car and the one which showed yellow on rigidity.

    My opinion here is that people freaking out about nothing, don't bother restoring the car until the handling is noticeably worse, loss of top speed is a good indicator that it may be time for an oil change, check your HP.

    Accelerated tire wear and fuel usage is turned on so you need to pit in these races just like 24 hours only takes 24 minutes
     
    Flaco13 likes this.
  22. Sier_Pinski

    Sier_Pinski

    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    United States
    As mentioned before, collisions with cars and barriers during races do not have an effect on chassis wear.
     
    raven214, Swagger897 and Virghilian like this.
  23. Jump_Ace

    Jump_Ace Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    8,236
    Location:
    United States
    I assumed it did, and in GT5 too. Too bad.


    Jerome
     
  24. stb155

    stb155

    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Austria
    My Z4 GT3 now has 1115km (692miles).

    Did a lot of testing with it and I am confident to say that I am SURE there is absolute no effect from the deteriorated body rigidity.

    Is still do the same laptimes with it easily as i did when it had 300km and the handling is 100% the same.

    Only thing affecting laptimes is the oil, usually i do low 1:59 on Nür/GP, if the oil gets old (-8LP/-19kW) i have a very hard time to get under 2:00.
    Oilchange for 250$ and low 1:59's no problem.

    My theory is they just mixed up the warning for Oil and the body regidity, that would explain everything.


    Just for info:
    I know Nürburgring GP very well (from M3 challenge game) and can do pretty consistant time there.
    Best ist 1:58,6 normal/good laps between 58,8 an 59,4 with small mistakes high 59's and with big mistake/near spin low 1:20's

    I also know the car very well, spent 3h on setup when i got it and i can really feel very small changes.
    For example one race i could not get under mid/high 1:59 and the braking/turn in felt a little bit strange, checked the setup after race and saw that braking was still on 7/2 from Monza, put it back to 7/4 and restartet the race and first clean lap was a 1:58,8.

    So I am confident that I would have noticed any changes from the deteriorated body rigidity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  25. Sier_Pinski

    Sier_Pinski

    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    United States
    Interesting. I wonder if the bug only affects handling for certain users? Ask Dixonbaps up there for example and he'll convince you that it does in fact have a profound effect on handling. I haven't got the game yet so I won't be able to do my own testing until after next week.
     
  26. lbpomg95

    lbpomg95

    Messages:
    1,492
    Location:
    England
    Online miles (even in free run mode) are now clocked/saved, unlike in GT5. I likely put in over 100,000 miles on GT5 just cruising around in free run lobbies. I don't want to work out how much that'll cost if I do the same on GT6.
     
    Swagger897 likes this.
  27. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

    Messages:
    2,643
    Location:
    Finland
    @stb155 try same, but finish race as second, anyhow not winning race.
     
  28. Syrius

    Syrius

    Messages:
    27
    This is what the online manual says about deterioration and damage (http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gt6/manual/#!/tuning/about)

    Note that it doesn't specify what happens online. The bottom line seems to be that the so-called 'deterioration', which includes the rigidity impairment, happens whenever the car is running except in arcade mode.

    Cheers,
    S.
     
    Sier_Pinski likes this.
  29. Sier_Pinski

    Sier_Pinski

    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    United States
    That's an interesting find that I hope is true. Cars accumulated permanent wear in arcade mode in GT5, so this here may be some good news.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  30. stb155

    stb155

    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Austria
    Forgot, i also did 10 hotlaps (all beteween 1:59,0 and 1:59,9), then restored the body rigidity for 175.000 i think and went back to do some laps.
    First was a 1:59,4 2nd 1:58,9 3rd i lost it over a curb.
    Again absolutely no difference in handling.

    Just a waste of 175k, so i went back to a safegame before tit.

    I don't believe that, maybe only some cars or only in some events.

    I still think it is just a mix up with the oil indicator, because you get no warning for that but loose quite some power after a few 100km.
    Small error in the program that sets the "rigidity warning" instead of "oil warning" at 500km, but you have to reset it with the "body restore" because the "reset part" in the program is not mixed up.
    The fact that the cheaper "increase body rigidity" buy has no influence on that 500km supports that theory.
    (I think this is meant to increase the km before the rigidity deteriorates but it does nothing)