BoP Update 1.09/1.10

[DaveTheStalker]

Looks like the GTR went on a little diet after they force fed it to the point it drove like the crappy road car, just a “slight” exaggeration. But, they need to fix the road GTR, it’s junk.

 

[eDirtyTati]

And when will they fix the unbalanced fuel economy?

Probably never, considering that different engines use different amounts of fuel. They would need to tinker with fuel capacity and/or refueling rate to try and level the playing field a little.

 

[Sector King]

Spoiler: My Reaction

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
DON'T FAT SHAME MY WAIFU CAR POLYPHONY

On a more serious note, it'll be interesting to see how the heavier weight ratios across the board will affect Gr3 times. It's going to be a bit more challenging to hit the previous best times, but I think we'll still see many of the current crowd favorites clean house in Sport Mode and the FIA Championships.

Yeah... looks like I'm going to have to retire my Bullet Club liveries WRX...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Looks like the GTR went on a little diet after they force fed it to the point it drove like the crappy road car, just a “slight” exaggeration. But, they need to fix the road GTR, it’s junk.

? I think you need to actually use and tune it. It's a great car in n500

 

[Amaru]

The GR.4 Aston Martin and Gr.4 Lexus are going op be top10 cars i think. Both of those cars could match the megane on dragontrail by give or take 0.5-0.8s prior to this update. I am one happy GTS player atm (although i would have been even more happy with an R32 GR.4 & R34 GR.4 ).

 

[Renrag39]

It's all in the tyres. The road car is shod with ss. Put some rh on and its' pedigree shows.

 

[LordDrift]

Did they really cut the TTs power?

 

[Renrag39]

Yup. 2% reduction.

 

[Pontaleon]

Had a few gr4 races in the GTR was fun and it was good the à Megan or a scirocco did not klaar you in the straights also had to refuel but passed 3 meganies that did not refuel that was funny.

 

[DaveTheStalker]

? I think you need to actually use and tune it. It's a great car in n500

It’s used in one of the License Tests IIRC. The car is horribly represented in stock form.

 

[SirMontgomery]

New problem is that running a map that will let you see the end without refuelling puts you at the mercy of the one or two stoppers who are determined to use you as their brakes. Just like the good old days of gr4...

 

[Outspacer]

The Ferraris need more than a BoP update. They are both useless at the moment. The Gr4 car is still too slow and fhe Gr3 car is still too loose.

458 Gr4 was the first one I looked for in that list. Megane vs 458 problem would be better solved by a physics change on FF cars, to change relative cornering strengths. The BoP changes haven't made a lot of difference - Megane is still the choice of low life punting scum.

 

[eDirtyTati]

It’s used in one of the License Tests IIRC. The car is horribly represented in stock form.

Not really. The GT-R isn't a fantastic handler IRL. It's not a complete dog--that is--it feels more like driving a nice stove than a refrigerator, lol. No--that's not fair. It's not quite appliance-like, but it's really heavy and somewhat softly-sprung. There's a reason it's become more known for the gobs of power you can get out of it for drag racing than for being a track killer like some of the other cars in its class. I've driven both stock and modified examples, and the game has it about right for what it is. You'll need to tighten it up and put it on proper tires for it to drive well.

 

[bmxmitch]

As long as they block tuning (only car-settings of course) for sport races, I don't give a damn anymore...
They will never get it right, in fact keep on ruining it more and more.

 

[TheGeologist]

Dodge Viper SRT GT3-R [Power Ratio : 86% > 84%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 103%] Why?!

I am beyond disappointed to see the Gr3 viper being further dropped in power. Definitely didn't thing it was needed

--

Dodge Viper Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 92% > 93%]

Although I am very glad to hear the Gr4 gets a little boost up!

--

Renault Sport Mégane Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 105% > 100%]

Volkswagen Scirocco Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 97% > 92%]

Glad to see both of these!

 

[crdcz03]

The Bop was adjusted, but the fuel usage makes it's a moot point. I had the sls doing well, but it needed a splash and go while the Megane could do a fast pace on no stops.

PD is obviously adjusting based on car stats, not real usage data. Their adjustments make no sense from the perspective of in game performance.

yeah I'm sure PD is just accumulating all this data so they can go ahead and wing it. Maybe you should have chosen the 4banger with a turbo instead of the AMG V8 for the longer race you did.

 

[Sander 001]

I don't have anything to add. I've seen the stats. Looks well considered on paper but how does it translate on track?

Gr.3 Class
・BMW M6 GT3 '16 [Power Ratio : 97% > 98%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 101% > 102%]
・BMW Z4 GT3 '11 [Power Ratio : 106% > 105%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 103% > 108%]
・GT by Citroen Race Car (Gr.3) [Power Ratio : 89% > 88%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 106% > 110%]
・Audi R8 LMS (Audi Sport Team WRT)'15 [Power Ratio : 90% > 92%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 103% > 108%]
・Aston Martin V12 VANTAGE GT3 '12 [Power Ratio : 112% > 111%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 105% > 104%]
・Alfa Romeo 4C Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 105% > 106%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 105%]
・Toyota FT-1 Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.3) [Power Ratio : 100% > 101%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 103%]
・Chevrolet Corvette C7 Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 106% > 102%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 101%]
・Jaguar F-Type Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 102% > 101%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 106%]
・Subaru WRX Gr.3 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 103%]
・Dodge Viper SRT GT3-R [Power Ratio : 86% > 84%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 103%]
・Hyundai Genesis Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 111% > 113%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 105%]
・Ferrari 458 Italia GT3 [Power Ratio : 100% > 101%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 107% > 109%]
・Volkswagen GTI Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.3) [Power Ratio : 104% > 100%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 104%]
・Volkswagen Beetle Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 90% > 91%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 106% > 110%]
・Ford Mustang Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 112% > 109%]
・Peugeot RCZ Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 104% > 105%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 110%]
・Peugeot Vision Gran Turismo (Gr.3) [Power Ratio : 96% > 100%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 106%]
・Honda NSX Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 100% > 96%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 100% > 102%]
・Porsche 911 RSR (991) '17 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 103% > 106%]
・McLaren 650S GT3 [Power Ratio : 108% > 110%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 107%]
・Mazda Atenza Gr.3 [Power Ratio : 105% > 104%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 103%]
・Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-AMG GT3 (AMG-Team HTP-Motorsport) [Power Ratio : 95% > 93%]
・Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3 [Power Ratio : 105% > 103%]
・Lamborghini Huracán GT3 '15 [Power Ratio : 95% > 94%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 106% > 108%]
・Renault Sport R.S.01 GT3 '16 [Power Ratio : 101% > 100%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 106% > 109%]
・Lexus RC F GT3 prototype (Emil Frey Racing) [Power Ratio : 101% > 102%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 106% > 107%]

Gr.4 Class
・BMW M4 Gr.4 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 107% > 104%]
・GT by Citroën Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 90% > 94%]
・Audi TT cup'16 [Power Ratio : 106% > 104%]
・Aston Martin Vantage Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 99% > 100%]
・Alfa Romeo 4C Gr.4 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 104% > 111%]
・Chevrolet Corvette C7 Gr.4 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 108% > 111%]
・Jaguar F-type Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 96% > 100%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 103% > 107%]
・Dodge Viper Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 92% > 93%]
・Toyota TOYOTA 86 Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 99% > 100%]
・Ferrari 458 Italia Gr.4 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 108% > 107%]
・Volkswagen Scirocco Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 97% > 92%]
・Bugatti Veyron Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 99% > 102%]
・Peugeot RCZ Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 110% > 108%]
・Honda NSX Gr.4 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 109% > 107%]
・Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport [Power Ratio : 91% > 93%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 108% > 111%]
・McLaren 650S Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 92% > 94%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 110% > 112%]
・Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 96% > 97%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 110% > 105%]
・Lamborghini Huracán Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 98% > 99%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 108% > 103%]
・Renault Sport Mégane Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 105% > 100%]
・Lexus RC F Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 100% > 98%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 105% > 102%]
・Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Final Edition Gr.4 [Power Ratio : 98% > 99%] [Weight Reduction Ratio: 102% > 101%]
・Nissan GT-R Gr.4 [Weight Reduction Ratio: 110% > 105%]

Which is the old BOP and which column is the new??

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Maybe you should have chosen the 4banger with a turbo instead of the AMG V8 for the longer race you did.

In my opinion within a game the reason for BoP (Balance of Power) is so that all gamer's can within a class of vehicles pick the vehicle that they like or prefer without type of drivetrain, fuel usage, tire wear differences or size of engine and weight of car dictating which car they choose as the overall performance level of all the cars will give each vehicle a fairly equal shot at a win if the driver utilizes the cars strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.

So the drivers choice of the AMG with the V8 should not have made any difference just because it was a longer race. The Megane could have fuel capacity reduced to force a needed pit stop as well which would level that out while not changing any other of the performance characteristics of the two cars.

 

[crdcz03]

In my opinion within a game the reason for BoP (Balance of Power) is so that all gamer's can within a class of vehicles pick the vehicle that they like or prefer without type of drivetrain, fuel usage, tire wear differences or size of engine and weight of car dictating which car they choose as the overall performance level of all the cars will give each vehicle a fairly equal shot at a win if the driver utilizes the cars strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.

So the drivers choice of the AMG with the V8 should not have made any difference just because it was a longer race. The Megane could have fuel capacity reduced to force a needed pit stop as well which would level that out while not changing any other of the performance characteristics of the two cars.

So for the past couple weeks I've seen a post here and there complaining about not having to pit on longer Sport mode races. PD adds one in randomly and now we got a guy thats complaining about not having something to make the mpg and tank size make it equal per vehicle, effectively making pitting completely pointless. Whats next? We have separate Gr.3 races for vehicles with RWD, FWD, and AWD? That way the traction will be more equal? While we are at it lets make everyone use the same TCS setting so as not to disrupt the wearing down of the tires.

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

So for the past couple weeks I've seen a post here and there complaining about not having to pit on longer Sport mode races. PD adds one in randomly and now we got a guy thats complaining about not having something to make the mpg and tank size make it equal per vehicle, effectively making pitting completely pointless. Whats next? We have separate Gr.3 races for vehicles with RWD, FWD, and AWD? That way the traction will be more equal? While we are at it lets make everyone use the same TCS setting so as not to disrupt the wearing down of the tires.

And all must use a wheel in cockpit view...

In my opinion within a game the reason for BoP (Balance of Power) is so that all gamer's can within a class of vehicles pick the vehicle that they like or prefer without type of drivetrain, fuel usage, tire wear differences or size of engine and weight of car dictating which car they choose as the overall performance level of all the cars will give each vehicle a fairly equal shot at a win if the driver utilizes the cars strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.

So the drivers choice of the AMG with the V8 should not have made any difference just because it was a longer race. The Megane could have fuel capacity reduced to force a needed pit stop as well which would level that out while not changing any other of the performance characteristics of the two cars.

Thats not how BoP works in real life racing....its to make them competitive not exactly comparable on average across all tracks......in BTCC its known for instance that RWD cars have advantage in some circuits and FWD on others......

I remember seeing in the large GT4 guide a table recommending whether to use Turbo or NA and drive/type of car by track. . . .

 

[Outspacer]

So for the past couple weeks I've seen a post here and there complaining about not having to pit on longer Sport mode races. PD adds one in randomly and now we got a guy thats complaining about not having something to make the mpg and tank size make it equal per vehicle, effectively making pitting completely pointless. Whats next? We have separate Gr.3 races for vehicles with RWD, FWD, and AWD? That way the traction will be more equal? While we are at it lets make everyone use the same TCS setting so as not to disrupt the wearing down of the tires.

His point isn't just a moan, at least he's suggesting one way how it might be improved. But basically he's right - at 10 laps of Brands, where it's the difference between 1 stop or none, it makes too big a difference. Make it 20 laps, and it might be 1 stop vs 2 which might be a more interesting battle between the different cars.

And you mean Gr4, BTW.

 

[NommyNom]

It's hard having this many cars, the drivetrain layouts, engine sizes, all the different weights be perfectly even. Every car should have its strengths and weaknesses in certain types of races. What I am seeing is everyone wanting a one make race but it has to be a car THEY like. If a car is fuel efficient, it shouldn't be that fast overall. Lots of straight line speed from heavy cars with big engines shouldn't be accompanied with easy handling and should use more fuel. The lighter ones that zip around turns shouldn't have much straight line speed either. "Balance of Pros and cons".

-Speed
-Handling
-Drivability (how easy the car is to drive)

Pick two.

 

[Renrag39]

@Sander 001
Old stats are left/1st. Hth.

 

[Voodoovaj]

yeah I'm sure PD is just accumulating all this data so they can go ahead and wing it. Maybe you should have chosen the 4banger with a turbo instead of the AMG V8 for the longer race you did.

Well, they aren't using it to balance the cars. Go test it. The cars in Gr4 are more balanced without BoP.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Thats not how BoP works in real life racing....its to make them competitive not exactly comparable on average across all tracks......in BTCC its known for instance that RWD cars have advantage in some circuits and FWD on others......

Very true but then you are talking about a series where all drivers are driving the same cars on a select series of courses and the advantage/ disadvantage equals out.

Here we are talking one off races on a single circuit in a game as well where giving a car an advantage over other cars is paramount to assuring one make or whatever cars have the advantage races.

This is not the real world and with programming it is possible to code the cars to where although different in where on the track they may be strong or weak the overall lap time should remain equal within a couple of tenths when both cars are driven perfectly for the entire lap.

A gamer that likes Dodge, Toyota, Lexus, Jaguar, Nissan or BMW should be able to drive whatever car they prefer and have a fairly equal chance for a win.

A game should not favor one make or one style of car when it is hosting 1 off races where the advantage is just that an advantage from the start to the finish of the entire event.

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

Very true but then you are talking about a series where all drivers are driving the same cars on a select series of courses and the advantage/ disadvantage equals out.

Here we are talking one off races on a single circuit in a game as well where giving a car an advantage over other cars is paramount to assuring one make or whatever cars have the advantage races.

This is not the real world and with programming it is possible to code the cars to where although different in where on the track they may be strong or weak the overall lap time should remain equal within a couple of tenths when both cars are driven perfectly for the entire lap.

A gamer that likes Dodge, Toyota, Lexus, Jaguar, Nissan or BMW should be able to drive whatever car they prefer and have a fairly equal chance for a win.

A game should not favor one make or one style of car when it is hosting 1 off races where the advantage is just that an advantage from the start to the finish of the entire event.

But isn't Manufacturers Cup for instance the end goal where exactly my scenario applies.

What you are asking for is a seperate solution for as you say a one off race that ultimately has no implications whereas we can see getting BOP right for one class is difficult enough already.

I'd rather PD get BOP right for the premium competitions where there are implications that start in April 2018.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

But isn't Manufacturers Cup for instance the end goal where exactly my scenario applies.

What you are asking for is a seperate solution for as you say a one off race that ultimately has no implications whereas we can see getting BOP right for one class is difficult enough already.

I'd rather PD get BOP right for the premium competitions where there are implications that start in April 2018.

Sport Mode Daily currently is a much larger part of the game for more players than the Nations and Manufacturers Series which currently seem to really be only beneficial for the 1% of the fastest racers within the game that compete in those series.

The average racer is much more inclined to care more about the modes they spend the most time in to be balanced fairly for their everyday gaming across the single race only Daily races.

I personally do not care at all about the Nations or Manufacturers series as I know I have 0% chance of winning at either. Of course that is my personal opinion but caring about car balance in the daily races I do care about.

Why should car balance suffer in the daily races for the series races?
The balance coding can easily be separate.

 

[DriftMethod]

I'm sad that my beloved RCZ Gr. 3 gained so much weight. Time to do some Gr. 3 car shopping and testing, which I really enjoy!

I'm happy that Gr. 4 looks much more balanced. It isn't perfect, but there was a lot more variety of cars in the Brands daily race.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I'm happy that Gr. 4 looks much more balanced. It isn't perfect, but there was a lot more variety of cars in the Brands daily race.

This is likely due to more testing than to actual changes to the balance.

I tried different cars in today's race (Brands Hatch) but the Megane is still the go to car IMHO.

On fuel map 3, I ran the entire race lapping faster than the rest of the field. I was only a few tenths off the FL. By contrast, the NSX laps 2 seconds slower while on fuel map 1 and it can't vo the distance on thatbsetting.

 

[DriftMethod]

This is likely due to more testing than to actual changes to the balance.

I tried different cars in today's race (Brands Hatch) but the Megane is still the go to car IMHO.

On fuel map 3, I ran the entire race lapping faster than the rest of the field. I was only a few tenths off the FL. By contrast, the NSX laps 2 seconds slower while on fuel map 1 and it can't vo the distance on thatbsetting.

The Megane, Scirocco and TT all lost power, so at least it will be closer. Other cars definitely got faster, so it's a move in the right direction. When I looked at the top 10 qualifiers, it wasn't filled with FF's (although maybe it changed since???) and I don't feel the need to avoid Gr. 4 races.