Boring Car Appreciation Thread

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CTznOfTime
The LS was designed and built specifically aimed to dent the 5 series...

I remember eagerly reading C&D, R&T, Automobile Mag etc during the mid and late 90s and the comparos setting these cars against each other...

LS was doing great ... Unfortunately the E39 was still king of the hill, but back then it was Lincoln best chance against the Germans...

The LS is not a bad car.... The 5/E and GS/A6 were better
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Still not convinced. I'm more aligned to think that the LS was designed to be a competitor of the Buick Lesabre (best selling car in it's category) and the Cadillac Seville, as well as it's rival, the Chrysler 300M/Concorde. Or, at the very least, be a cheaper, American alternative to the Jaguar S-Type. I'd also bargain that it was intended to rival RWD, premium Japanese sedans like the Lexus GS or Infiniti Q45. Still not quite 5-Series territory though, and even if it was compared with the E39 in automotive journals, that doesn't guarantee it was equally as competitive. Though, it was closer in competitiveness to E39 than the Lesabre or 300M/Concorde, I'll give it that.
 
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Well, after reading Wikipedia, I stand corrected on a couple of things:

The LS was first released in 1999, there couldnt be a chance fore to read about in the mid 90s... (My memory ain't good)

And for me to say the LS ain't a bad car is a understatement... The LS was voted Car of the Year...
 
CTznOfTime
Well, after reading Wikipedia, I stand corrected on a couple of things:

The LS was first released in 1999, there couldnt be a chance fore to read about in the mid 90s... (My memory ain't good)

And for me to say the LS ain't a bad car is a understatement... The LS was voted Car of the Year...
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Sadly, “car of the year” doesn’t guarantee it’s a great car, and in fact, many truly atrocious vehicles have won the award, the Dodge Aries as an example.
 
GranTurNismo
Sadly, “car of the year” doesn’t guarantee it’s a great car, and in fact, many truly atrocious vehicles have won the award, the Dodge Aries as an example.
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The Aries, that is, the whole of the K car chassis, literally saved Chrysler in the early 80s. It's wasn't voted car of the year because of its performance, it was voted car of the year because it brought Chrysler back from the brink.

As to the question of the Lincoln being aimed at the 5 series and like luxury cars, I would put stock into that being exactly the case. Ford has been trying to break into that market since they created the MN12 chassis. Fords answer to cars like the Lesabre or Seville would have been cars like the Taurus, Grand Marquis, Town car and Mark VIII.
Cars like the LS and MN12 Cougar and Thunderbird were designed to compete in the sports luxury genre. That includes BMWs and Benzes. They even went so far as to use an IRS setup and coilovers in the front on the MN12 chassis. Unfortunately, ford didnt have a powerplant worth a damn, so they didnt end up really competing in the segment they were designed for.

Edit: Ok, to be fair, the 2.3l turbo of the 80s in the turbo coupes actually weren't bad at all, and did really well with mods. They also out performed many of the competitors 4 cylinder turbos of the time.
 
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Rallywagon
The Aries, that is, the whole of the K car chassis, literally saved Chrysler in the early 80s. It's wasn't voted car of the year because of its performance, it was voted car of the year because it brought Chrysler back from the brink.
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That's exactly right, though it still was by all accounts an undesirable car.

Rallywagon
The Aries, that is, the whole of the K car chassis, literally saved Chrysler in the early 80s. It's wasn't voted car of the year because of its performance, it was voted car of the year because it brought Chrysler back from the brink.

As to the question of the Lincoln being aimed at the 5 series and like luxury cars, I would put stock into that being exactly the case. Ford has been trying to break into that market since they created the MN12 chassis. Fords answer to cars like the Lesabre or Seville would have been cars like the Taurus, Grand Marquis, Town car and Mark VIII.
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The Taurus wasn't even a luxury-oriented car to start with, so it would compete with non-luxury cars like the Dodge Stratus or Chevrolet Impala. The Grand Marquis/Town Car were significantly longer in size than the Lesabre/Seville and didn't even have any real competition, anyway. The Mk. VIII was a full-size coupe that ended production two years before the Lesabre I'm referring to was produced, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Let's compare the prices of the two cars, for example. A base 2000 Lincoln LS started at exactly $32k and with many options would still be less than $40k. The E39, however, started at $39,000 (528i) and could go way over $50k, even slightly above $60k. And keep in mind, the Lincoln LS was seven inches longer than the E39 (195 compared to 188 inches). The Lesabre, however, was closer to the LS in size and started at almost exactly $30,000. The Seville was only a few thousand more. Same goes for the 300M/Concorde, though those were a few inches longer. All sedans which started in the low $30k-range and could barely be optioned for more than $40k. From this, I think it's more reasonable to conclude that the LS is more comparable with other American cars like the Lesabre than with the E39 5-Series.
 
GranTurNismo
That's exactly right, though it still was by all accounts an undesirable car.


The Taurus wasn't even a luxury-oriented car to start with, so it would compete with non-luxury cars like the Dodge Stratus or Chevrolet Impala. The Grand Marquis/Town Car were significantly longer in size than the Lesabre/Seville and didn't even have any real competition, anyway. The Mk. VIII was a full-size coupe that ended production two years before the Lesabre I'm referring to was produced, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Let's compare the prices of the two cars, for example. A base 2000 Lincoln LS started at exactly $32k and with many options would still be less than $40k. The E39, however, started at $39,000 (528i) and could go way over $50k, even slightly above $60k. And keep in mind, the Lincoln LS was seven inches longer than the E39 (195 compared to 188 inches). The Lesabre, however, was closer to the LS in size and started at almost exactly $30,000. The Seville was only a few thousand more. Same goes for the 300M/Concorde, though those were a few inches longer. All sedans which started in the low $30k-range and could barely be optioned for more than $40k. From this, I think it's more reasonable to conclude that the LS is more comparable with other American cars like the Lesabre than with the E39 5-Series.
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I am not disagreeing with you on the pricing and maybe that's what Ford/Lincoln was trying to do, offer a two front battles and compete with more cars...

But you shouldn't deny the effort undertaken by Ford to attack the modern luxury market at the time...

It was no small feat...

I was surprised and applaud the effort

Here is one of the articles from MT I still remember reading back then...
https://www.motortrend.com/news/six-cylinder-face-off/
 
GranTurNismo
That's exactly right, though it still was by all accounts an undesirable car.


The Taurus wasn't even a luxury-oriented car to start with, so it would compete with non-luxury cars like the Dodge Stratus or Chevrolet Impala. The Grand Marquis/Town Car were significantly longer in size than the Lesabre/Seville and didn't even have any real competition, anyway. The Mk. VIII was a full-size coupe that ended production two years before the Lesabre I'm referring to was produced, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Let's compare the prices of the two cars, for example. A base 2000 Lincoln LS started at exactly $32k and with many options would still be less than $40k. The E39, however, started at $39,000 (528i) and could go way over $50k, even slightly above $60k. And keep in mind, the Lincoln LS was seven inches longer than the E39 (195 compared to 188 inches). The Lesabre, however, was closer to the LS in size and started at almost exactly $30,000. The Seville was only a few thousand more. Same goes for the 300M/Concorde, though those were a few inches longer. All sedans which started in the low $30k-range and could barely be optioned for more than $40k. From this, I think it's more reasonable to conclude that the LS is more comparable with other American cars like the Lesabre than with the E39 5-Series.
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Undesirable cars... not sure that's how I would describe a chassis with over 2 million cars sold. Uninspiring maybe, but not undesirable.

Now, let's get into that second paragraph a bit. Fair enough in the Taurus, however, I dont take standing with your notion that the cars wheel base being a bit longer somehow changes the cars it was meant to compete with. At least, not as a sole consideration as you are presenting it. Also, if you want a certain year to be considered, it would behoove you to add that year or generation into your post. Lesabres ran from what 59-60 until 2005.
While we are on the topic of wheel base, we can start in on the third paragraph. Wheel base and price doesnt a segment make. There is of course correlation, luxury sedans are typically bigger and more expensive than an entry level sedan. But it's not the price that makes one a luxury sedan or a normal sedan. It's the quality of the finished product.
To speak specifically to the LS, your defense that it might have been built to be a cheaper Jag in a way concedes it was meant to compete against Jag.... who builds cars in the same segment as the 5 series.... :sly:. The LS was built, as expressed by Ford themselves, to compete in the mid sized luxury market. That is, the whole of the mid sized luxury segment, not a cherry picked segment based on your whims.

Also, one more point to disrupt your notion for cost being some sort of qualifier. A 5 series being more expensive than an LS makes sense. Importing a car can have significant overhead. Go look at the cost difference between a 2016 4 cylinder ecoboost mustang in the US and in Germany. It's almost double the price in Germany. No 5 series has ever been made in american. And guess what... yep, competes in the same segment in both countries. Starting a 40k+ in Germany wasn't enough to make it a "luxury" sports car.
 
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The Suzuki Kizashi

It is not boring.
But nobody knows it even exists.
And Nobody know how good a little car it is..
It has a look that is not bad at all...

But then again even when people look at it, they are not offended by it, not particularly attracted to it, and they have no idea what it is...

Which is too bad for Suzuki, because they have invested and have put effort in making sure this is a fun car to drive...

I wish this car does better... It deserves better attention.

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https://www.motortrend.com/cars/suzuki/kizashi/2012/2012-suzuki-kizashi-gts-awd-first-test/


EDIT:

I should have searched first but apparently @MedigoFlame did mention about this car in this thread a couple of years back @ https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/boring-car-appreciation-thread.318138/page-8#post-11909840
 
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People often tend to flock to nameplates which are proven for quite a long time already. In this class, classic examples are the Corolla and Civic. I'm not even sure if there's an alternative from America or Korea that would be able to topple the long-time reputation of these two.
 
GTV0819
People often tend to flock to nameplates which are proven for quite a long time already. In this class, classic examples are the Corolla and Civic. I'm not even sure if there's an alternative from America or Korea that would be able to topple the long-time reputation of these two.
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In the US at least, it would appear Teslas model 3 and buyers preferring a crossover/SUV have taken huge chunks out of most car sales. Tora cars sales dropped by 110k from 2017 to 2018, and they saw an equal uptick in purchases from their "truck" line up. Civics were down in sales by 55k in 2018.
It seems that SUVs and crossovers are doing what the competition's car line ups couldnt.
 
Rallywagon
In the US at least, it would appear Teslas model 3 and buyers preferring a crossover/SUV have taken huge chunks out of most car sales. Tora cars sales dropped by 110k from 2017 to 2018, and they saw an equal uptick in purchases from their "truck" line up. Civics were down in sales by 55k in 2018.
It seems that SUVs and crossovers are doing what the competition's car line ups couldnt.
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I was referring to compact cars though when I said that, not any other platforms there.

But yes, many SUVs and crossovers have been dominating the roads plus to a great extent, they have also made minivans and station wagons things of the past.

Also notable is that Ford has slashed off many of its saloons they used to offer in the market so they could focus solely on big cars such as SUVs, crossovers and their trucks, too.
 
The big three are cutting most of their car line up. GM is even giving up on the Camaro, again.
I think, strictly speaking, the only threat to the civic and Camry is going to be the Tesla 3, which was the 5th selling car in that class for 2018. But... that was 137k compared to 300k+ for the camry, civic and carolla each.
I only bring up SUVs and crossovers because of the huge correlation between the rise of their sales and drop in compact cars sales.
 
Americans love their bloated SUVs, which at this point are more akin to morbidly obese cars than the trucks they used to be based off of. At least ford plans on keeping the Mustang though.
 
Rallywagon
Americans love their bloated SUVs, which at this point are more akin to morbidly obese cars than the trucks they used to be based off of. At least ford plans on keeping the Mustang though.
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If you have to be honest, the Europeans have now fully embraced the SUVs as well... They are every where and replacing small and hatchback ...
 
CTznOfTime
If you have to be honest, the Europeans have now fully embraced the SUVs as well... They are every where and replacing small and hatchback ...
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I am very sorry... I personally hate the trend, even if I daily drive an 2014 explorer...
 
Well, in our case (my wife an I) we have a mazda3 that was to be our commuter. It has racked up over 165k miles and is rusting away and needs more work done to it than it's worth. Its gonna be put up for sale in short order then we will be car shopping once again. This time likely for an audi wagon. Although, keeping with the theme, i wouldn't mind finding an old ford country squire wagon.
 
As long as most people who drive big vehicles like SUVs are matured in holding the wheel and wise enough to know that they are not race cars, then it's fine for me.

However, the problem is that I observed many of their drivers aren't like that at all; no discipline, no courtesy and no aptitude, which is the saddest part of it.

It made me suddenly wonder that all the hype of people buying them is simply because of the cool image or factor they try to exude in the roads.
 
Nice. 1977 Ford Maverick. No late 70s american car was really note worthy, but the earlier years were pretty good looking.
 
I have never like the Altima, but I think the very latest version of the Altima is not bad at all, and has a quite attractive front...

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This didn't take any significant attention from the NA market but it became fairly popular in the ASEAN region during its time that it was still produced there for a few more years even if its successor has already arrived.

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I present the obscure (to the US) Merkur Scorpio!
273px-Merkur_Scorpio_2.9_Ghia_(35762979256).jpg
What a completely boring looking design.
For those not in the know, Merkur was a Ford brand back in the mid 80's. The idea of the brand was to bring European Ford stock to sell to us fine Americans. This, and the XR4Ti (Ford Sierra in the EU) were sold under the Marquee. Sadly, the brand was only around for a few short years as vehicle safety requirements changed in 87 that would have required extensive chassis modifications to the EU cars before they could be sold in the US. Thus Ford killed off Merkur. A real shame as under the marquee I imagine we would have gotten some of the better ford cars like the real escort, not the econobox fwd BS escort the US got.
 
On the topic of older Passats, the 2002-2004 W8 comes to mind. On paper, it sounds pretty awesome, a basic family sedan with a big eight-cylinder engine, 4WD, and even a manual... until you realize it was one of the most unreliable vehicles of the decade. I'd have more faith in a base-spec Chrysler Sebring having less issues than a Passat W8 after a few years.



Furthermore, the original Passat, which came out 45 years ago by now, is pretty interesting looking.



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