Briatore gets banned, Renault given suspended sentence and the fallout begins!

Regardless of the accusation it is obvious Piquet has an agenda and is desperate to get retribution on Briatore. In my opinion Piquet has not needed much influence to crash his car and as for the way he crashed anyone who actually saw the race could tell he went in a little to fast into the corner and spun the car. If in fact they would have wanted him to do it on purpose it would have been questioned by the stewards and the other teams instantly, not a year later.

Renault do have a rather dubious past and Briatore is just a tycoon pretending to be a something he's not. He was lucky to have signed Alonso and as soon as Fernando gets his destined ride Flavio will dissapear.

Just like how Flavio was meant to disappear after 1994 right? ;)
Although I dislike him, I wouldn't go so far as to say he is "pretending", he does know what he is doing - he pretty clearly has a lot of experience managing teams into championship winners. Like his style or not, he is an effective team principal when it all comes together.

Ghosn has repeatedly said that Formula 1 is a necessity for Renault and he strongly encourages it, emphasizing that Renault will continue to be in F1 for several years to come regardless of current bad results. They are signed until 2012 as well.

Signing the concord agreement means nothing. Welcome to F1, where teams sign agreements which are easily broken.

I don't think Renault expected to be repeatedly brought before the WSMC and achieve F1 headlines to do with their dangerous or cheating team when they said "regardless of current bad results". ;)
 
The saga continues:
Race-day meeting key to Renault case

By Jonathan Noble and Michele Lostia - Wednesday, September 9th 2009, 16:20 GMT

A meeting between Nelson Piquet, Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds hours before last year's Singapore Grand Prix is central to the race fixing allegations surrounding the Renault team, AUTOSPORT has learned.

With the FIA's World Motor Sport Council due to meet on September 21 for Renault to answer charges that the team caused a deliberate crash in Singapore last year to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed for the first time background details of the case.

AUTOSPORT understands that key to what happened in the race is the discussion that took place in one of Renault's offices at the Singapore track on the Sunday, where race tactics were discussed between Piquet, team principal Briatore and director of engineering Symonds.

Sources claim that in evidence submitted to the FIA by Nelson Piquet, the Brazilian driver says he was asked by Briatore and Symonds to crash deliberately early in the race so as to help Alonso win.

Piquet says that he agreed to do so because he felt uncomfortable about his situation at the team, with Renault having not renewed his contract for 2009 at that time - and Briatore was stalling on making a firm commitment. Piquet suggests that he only went ahead and caused the accident because he felt he would be rewarded for his actions.

In his evidence, Piquet claims that he was taken aside by Symonds after the first meeting and instructured that he should crash on lap 13 or 14, shortly after Alonso's scheduled first stop, at Turn 17.

The reason this part of the track was singled out was because there were no cranes present there to lift the car away, so any accident would virtually guarantee a safety car.

Piquet's claims have, however, been denied by both Briatore and Symonds in documents that are believed to have been submitted with the FIA. Although they confirm that the meeting between the three of them took place, both suggest that it was Piquet's own suggestion to cause an accident.

Sources claim that the Singapore race-fix matter came to light on July 26 - the day of Piquet's last race for Renault in Hungary - when his father Nelson contacted FIA president Max Mosley to make him aware of what had happened.

Piquet Jr. then visited the FIA's headquarters in Paris on July 30 to present a statement to FIA representatives, believed to be stewards' advisor Alan Donnelly, and external investigators from the Quest agency.

Following Piquet's testimony, the three stewards from the Singapore Grand Prix, plus two external investigators from Quest, were flown to the Belgian Grand Prix to conduct interviews with Renault representatives.

A report in Italian magazine Autosprint also suggests that telemetry data from Piquet's car has emerged as another reason why the matter has gone to the WMSC.

At Turn 17 where Piquet crashed, normally the rear wheels of the Renault would lose grip on the exit - requiring the driver to ease off the throttle briefly. However, on the lap he crashed, Piquet kept accelerating even though the rear wheels had lost grip.

Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family.

"I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about. I also remember that Piquet at Singapore was in a very fragile state of mind. Besides that, there are the audio recordings where I express disappointment when I see on the screens that Piquet had crashed."

Symonds is also reported as saying: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation."

Renault has said it will not comment on the matter officially before the WMSC hearing later this month.
 
O man. Nelson Piquet is a snitch.

Besides that, whether it's true or not, Briatore and Symonds are in a bad spot. And why did Sr. have to tell FIA? It's not like Piquet Jr. could've done it himself. Plus, it seems as though, judging by the interviews, that Piquet wanted to make the guys happy anyway he can. Even if it means wrecking to make Alonso win. It seems more of a desperate move by Piquet than Briatore and Symonds wanting a win that bad.

It seems to me, only in my opinion, Piquet Sr. took actions into his own hands since the team dropped his son and spilled the beans. Sorry your son isn't as good as you were, Sr. I think they're spots left in GP2. :lol:
 
I remember a while back Piquet Sr. acknowledged on TV that his son wasn't doing good, so I don't think it should matter now.
 
That wasn't the Piquet Sr. we all love and admire. No way, nuh uh, not a chance.. :sly:
 
Easy for Flavio to say now: "Look, the guy was so desperate to remain in the team that when I called a meeting with him and Pat Sunday morning (insert a perfect excuse for this meeting to happen) and we both were surprised by this idea HE came up with. Of course, we didn't accept it fom him".

Yeah, right ...
 
Lol, right? The guy offers to crash his car, I assume you reject the idea, and when he goes and crashes anyways, you don't ground him? Pass the tartar sauce...something's fishy here...
 
I just like to have my moment of gloating:

Hmm, well thats the easy part - who was formerly at Renault who would provide new evidence right now? ;)

This particular person is never going to be hired in F1 again after all this fuss. The guy should learn to shut his trap, this isn't how you stay in F1.

Piquet denies it. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions because it's to do with Renault and the claims came from a Brazilian journalist. I've already heard other rubbish conspiracy theories that suggest it's Max Mosley latching onto the first thing he could find to discredit Flavio Briatore, one of the leaders of the rogue FOTA faction and their unofficial convenor (FOTA always met on Renault territory - Briatore's yacht in Monaco, and Renault's Enstone facility in Britain).



Oh yeah, called it ages ago :P
It was pretty damn obvious that Piquet was the one that set off this bomb. Coincidence that he's kicked out of Renault and then evidence turns up? I think not.

Both Renault and Piquet are in deep trouble now though, guess Piquet doesn't want to have a career in F1 anymore, he's done pretty much everything you can do to destroy it apart from tell lies to the stewards or something.

And Briatore and Symonds just effectively made it very obvious they are guilty....why didn't they just flat deny anything was mentioned about crashing?
 
This is quite extraordinary - notice how no-one is denying that the accident was deliberate? Whoever came up with the idea, I think the lot of them are in serious trouble. Very disappointing to hear that a man of Pat Symonds stature and calibre could be so heavily implicated in this. It is clear from what Piquet has said on his own website that Flavio was threatening him before races, and hence it is possibly understandable why Piquet would have towed the line in this manner (if the allegations are true, of course). If they are, however, then none of these people should work in F1 again.
 
This has kicked up a lot of dirt in Renault's direction. Whether they are found guilty or not, and with it looking increasingly like Alonso switching to Ferrari for next season, i don't see Renault in F1 in 2010.
 
This has kicked up a lot of dirt in Renault's direction. Whether they are found guilty or not, and with it looking increasingly like Alonso switching to Ferrari for next season, i don't see Renault in F1 in 2010.
Would Ferrari want him after this? While Alonso may have known nothing of what was going on, he was still a major player in all of it. If Renault brought the sport into disrepute, it's likely he could face a driving ban.

And I'll believe Alonso-to-Ferrari when either party says it is happening.
 
Would Ferrari want him after this? While Alonso may have known nothing of what was going on, he was still a major player in all of it. If Renault brought the sport into disrepute, it's likely he could face a driving ban.

And I'll believe Alonso-to-Ferrari when either party says it is happening.

Neither Alonso nor Hamilton got banned for Spy-Gate, though I think Hamilton or McLaren should have gotten a 1-race ban for "Lie-Gate"... so I doubt that Alonso will get banned for something that Piquet says he was not a part of.

I highly doubt Piquet Jr. will ever see the inside of an F1 car, again, though. Never been competitive... embroiled in scandal...

Wonder what penalty Renault will get? You can't retroactive a done championship... so it may be a penalty imposed on this season... and probably a hefty, hefty, hefty fine.
 
If in fact they would have wanted him to do it on purpose it would have been questioned by the stewards and the other teams instantly, not a year later.

I think you will find that questions were raised at the time, if I recall Massa and Ferrari queried the crash (Massa may have even said that he thought it was planned).

However with no evidence avaliable at the time it wasn't taken any further. Now new evidence is in place (we are told) it can be taken further.


Regards

Scaff
 
You can't retroactive a done championship...

This is the FIA. They can do anything, regardless of how irrational or retarded it seems to normal folk. Remember that they changed the results of thirteen completed races in 2007 (though only for one team - the others weren't moved up).
 
This is the FIA. They can do anything, regardless of how irrational or retarded it seems to normal folk. Remember that they changed the results of thirteen completed races in 2007 (though only for one team - the others weren't moved up).

Indeed, I still find it hard to believe that they didn't DQ the drivers too ;).
 
This is quite extraordinary - notice how no-one is denying that the accident was deliberate? Whoever came up with the idea, I think the lot of them are in serious trouble. Very disappointing to hear that a man of Pat Symonds stature and calibre could be so heavily implicated in this. It is clear from what Piquet has said on his own website that Flavio was threatening him before races, and hence it is possibly understandable why Piquet would have towed the line in this manner (if the allegations are true, of course). If they are, however, then none of these people should work in F1 again.

I'll give Pat Symonds the benefit of the doubt on this. I'll offer no comment or judgement until the WMSC reveal their findings.
 
I can see Renault being dropped from last years championship... 0 points - just like McLaren...

Then the FIA will redistribute the monies that the "lesser" teams would've earned for placing higher in the league.

C.
 
This is quite extraordinary - notice how no-one is denying that the accident was deliberate? Whoever came up with the idea, I think the lot of them are in serious trouble. Very disappointing to hear that a man of Pat Symonds stature and calibre could be so heavily implicated in this. It is clear from what Piquet has said on his own website that Flavio was threatening him before races, and hence it is possibly understandable why Piquet would have towed the line in this manner (if the allegations are true, of course). If they are, however, then none of these people should work in F1 again.

It's funny how quickly the F1 community latches on to things. The FIA announced that they were investigating a race from last year, and immediately everyone settled on this one event (which I don't even remember happening, to be honest!).

There does seem to be a weight of evidence. And since we're into quoting ourselves with hindsight:

GilesGuthrie
Although if Renault had asked Piquet Jr to do what's being alleged, it would go some way to providing justification for their inexplicable decision to retain him for (the start of) 2009. Previously, I'd thought that to be financially-motivated, but if there were some shenanigans, it would make sense.

The WMSC's opening question should be "So, Renault, why did you retain the unbelievably s*** Piquet in 2009?"
 
I think Piquet would not lie... Or perhaps yes but who knows actually now..

Most of these incidents were triggered by the team itself...
 
That document is very bad news for all involved. Renault need to act fast and fire everybody involved which might make the FIA more lenient when they decide to act.
 
Piquet Jr. is finished as far as F1 or any other major form of motorsport is concerned. We'll see about Briatore and Symmonds.
 
I hope Briatore goes. I've never made any secret of my distaste for him, and I think his departure can only be a good thing.
 
Piquet Jr. is finished as far as F1 or any other major form of motorsport is concerned. We'll see about Briatore and Symmonds.

In this case, Brazilian local media is more aware of any other, in fact t was Reginaldo Leme who first broke the story.

From what we heard on Globo TV, it's pretty obvious that Piquet Senior spoke to Bernie and had a "deal", to burn Briatore without damaging his sun's future (more than he has already damaged).

I won't be surprise if he get's a seat in one of the new teams for 2010, as part of the deal to crush Briatore.

Piquet wouldn't start this mess if he knew he would end up as the bad guy.
 
What did Reginaldo say?

But, anyway you look at it, and considering all teams have their secrets (dirty or not) I don't see how a team would in the future sign a contract with Piquet Jr., knowing that if the relationship ended with bitterness (as it happens so often) some sort of blackmailing was possible to retain a seat.

That's why I think Piquet Jr's career is over. Not because he agreed to crash, but because he spoke about it after he was sacked ... and because he was sacked.

To be honest, I'd like all this to come from somone else, not Piquet (Sr. or Jr.). Like it happened in the spygate affair, where the tiffoso that made the copies made also an historical phonecall to Maranello.
 
But there's no way around it. Piquet is screwed either way. 1. for actually doing it and 2. keeping this a secret from FIA and they will NOT like this one bit. You can point as many fingers as you want at Briatore and Symonds but that's not going to change the fact that you did what you did.
 
In this case, Brazilian local media is more aware of any other, in fact t was Reginaldo Leme who first broke the story.

From what we heard on Globo TV, it's pretty obvious that Piquet Senior spoke to Bernie and had a "deal", to burn Briatore without damaging his sun's future (more than he has already damaged).

I won't be surprise if he get's a seat in one of the new teams for 2010, as part of the deal to crush Briatore.

Piquet wouldn't start this mess if he knew he would end up as the bad guy.

The same Bernie who's a business partner with Flav?
 

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