Britain - The Official Thread

[ECGadget]

First of all, I am quite shocked at this, and my thoughts are with her friends and family. Especially her children right now.

Second. If this was political, does this make it a terrorist act (as is that not what the definition of terrorism states or something?)

Either way, this is horrible =(

 

[Katiegan]

First of all, I am quite shocked at this, and my thoughts are with her friends and family. Especially her children right now.

Second. If this was political, does this make it a terrorist act (as is that not what the definition of terrorism states or something?)

Either way, this is horrible =(

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm
noun

1. the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
   "the fight against terrorism"

I'd say definitely. But, of course, it wasn't a Muslim or someone of another ethnic minority, so the media won't label it as that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You seriously consider that to be of the same scale?

The images you have posted are reporting what witnesses have said, a false flag murder by Remain is a leap far, far further.

Scale is debatable. Same general idea..definitely.

I'd say definitely. But, of course, it wasn't a Muslim or someone of another ethnic minority, so the media won't label it as that.

So what was the perpetrator's political agenda?

 

[Katiegan]

So what was the perpetrator's political agenda?

Vote Leave would be my guess. Or, anti-immigration, since Jo Cox was very pro-immigration.

 

[Dotini]

Or, anti-immigration, since Jo Cox was very pro-immigration.

This? Fox business network reports Cox as having made numerous trips to Syria, and might thus be assumed as very much pro-regime change and pro-war in the middle east. Perhaps her assailant lost a son in Iraq? Did she die for the sins of Tony Blair and western meddling?

 

[Katiegan]

This? Fox business network reports Cox as having made numerous trips to Syria, and might thus be assumed as very much pro-regime change and pro-war in the middle east. Perhaps her assailant lost a son in Iraq? Did she die for the sins of Tony Blair and western meddling?

I wouldn't say trips to Syria would make someone pro-war, if anything I'd say someone like her visiting would go to see the devastation the war has caused and the impact it has on the civilians there. More likely, the killer was just a nutcase of a Britain First supporter who blamed everything on the 'bloody moose-limbs', and didn't like the idea of more coming over and 'taking are bloody jobs'.

 

[Famine]

I'd say definitely. But, of course, it wasn't a Muslim or someone of another ethnic minority, so the media won't label it as that.

Vote Leave would be my guess. Or, anti-immigration, since Jo Cox was very pro-immigration.

I wouldn't say trips to Syria would make someone pro-war, if anything I'd say someone like her visiting would go to see the devastation the war has caused and the impact it has on the civilians there. More likely, the killer was just a nutcase of a Britain First supporter who blamed everything on the 'bloody moose-limbs', and didn't like the idea of more coming over and 'taking are bloody jobs'.

At the moment we don't know anything about the perpetrator (which is as it should be - it's about time the press stopped making these crimes all about the perpetrators), however if it is who it is reported that it is, we only know that he has previously been a mental health patient according to quotes he gave to the Huddersfield Examiner a couple of years ago.

Extracting motivations from that is... a nest of snakes at best.

 

[Danny]

guess

Now there's a dangerous word.

 

[TenEightyOne]

This? Fox business network reports Cox as having made numerous trips to Syria, and might thus be assumed as very much pro-regime change and pro-war in the middle east.

They should have reported on why she went to Syria... she worked for Oxfam, one of our largest charities and one that does a huge amount of overseas aid work. Their stance is strictly a-political and most definitely not pro-war.

Of course, that would mean that Fox only told half a story, surely not?

 

[Katiegan]

At the moment we don't know anything about the perpetrator (which is as it should be - it's about time the press stopped making these crimes all about the perpetrators), however if it is who it is reported that it is, we only know that he has previously been a mental health patient according to quotes he gave to the Huddersfield Examiner a couple of years ago.

Extracting motivations from that is... a nest of snakes at best.

Of course. It could've been anyone with any motive. But, in my opinion, I just think it's pretty likely he was something along those lines, especially if the reports of him shouting 'Britain First' are true.

 

[Dotini]

They should have reported on why she went to Syria... she worked for Oxfam, one of our largest charities and one that does a huge amount of overseas aid work. Their stance is strictly a-political and most definitely not pro-war.

Of course, that would mean that Fox only told half a story, surely not?

FBN is pro-remain.
But I would say these NGOs were all supporting the rebels.

 

[Famine]

Of course. It could've been anyone with any motive. But, in my opinion, I just think it's pretty likely he was something along those lines, especially if the reports of him shouting 'Britain First' are true.

As (at least) a former mental health patient who reportedly found volunteering better than medication or therapy, can we put any ideological stock in the phrase even if it's true?

I mean, I'm not saying it isn't and I agree that she is a very unusual choice of victim if it is unrelated to her Remain campaigning, but we are talking about a guy with documented mental health problems. It wouldn't be unusual for someone on a severe break to become obsessive about what's most commonly put in front of them - and right now we're in a period of pretty awful campaigning on this issue (on both sides) that plays on paranoia and fear.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Of course. It could've been anyone with any motive. But, in my opinion, I just think it's pretty likely he was something along those lines, especially if the reports of him shouting 'Britain First' are true.

First it was definitely terrorism now it's just your opinion? What if the reports of him shouting "Britain First" aren't true? Then what?

 

[Tired Tyres]

It doesn't matter if he said "Britain First" or "Free my best friend Mr McChicken, KFC must die." Mentally ill is mentally ill.

 

[polysmut]

I've just seen a picture of the suspect on TV. There were other people in the room talking but I think the reporter said that the suspect had previously written to a newspaper (if i heard correctly) asking about mental illness & also that he had (again, if I heard correctly) some form of mental illness.

I already felt sad that somebody had been killed, I felt sadder still when the reporters described the victim's achievements.
Then sad on yet another level that the guy who did it may have been a victim of something himself & that his symptoms caused a terrible thing.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Mentally ill is mentally ill.

What a sweeping generalisation. 👎

I have no doubt that this guy had issues, but at this point those issues could be anything between "believing an act of violence will lead to some sort of political change" to "wanting to impress Jodie Foster". There's no real way of us knowing with the current information, and it's not for us to speculate on until we hear further from the police or whoever.

Regardless, today's events are a deeply saddening, and I can only express my most sincere condolences to the friends and family of Jo Cox, as well as sending my best wishes for a speedy recovery to the other man injured in the attack.

 

[polysmut]

What a sweeping generalisation. 👎

While I can't speak for @Tired Tyres, I took his comment differently to that. I thought it was a comment that we shouldn't assign political motives that don't necessarily exist if an act is committed as a symptom of illness.

 

[Katiegan]

First it was definitely terrorism now it's just your opinion? What if the reports of him shouting "Britain First" aren't true? Then what?

One would assume someone killing a political figure during a very important campaign in the UK would have had a political motive. I'll admit, I wasn't aware of his genuine history of mental illness, so perhaps I shouldn't have jumped to a definite conclusion so soon.

I just found it a little strange that this wasn't being presumed terrorism straight away as opposed to the Orlando shootings, for example, being instantly recognised as terrorism due to the suspect being of Afghani heritage. Slightly bigger scale mind, but still.

 

[Hun200kmh]

This? Fox business network reports Cox as having made numerous trips to Syria, and might thus be assumed as very much pro-regime change and pro-war in the middle east. Perhaps her assailant lost a son in Iraq? Did she die for the sins of Tony Blair and western meddling?

Just seen this quote from her, I guess that'll clear what made her interested in Syria and syrian refugees

 

[Tired Tyres]

While I can't speak for @Tired Tyres, I took his comment differently to that. I thought it was a comment that we shouldn't assign political motives that don't necessarily exist if an act is committed as a symptom of illness.

That is exactly what I meant. I could have made that clearer though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

One would assume someone killing a political figure during a very important campaign in the UK would have had a political motive. I'll admit, I wasn't aware of his genuine history of mental illness, so perhaps I shouldn't have jumped to a definite conclusion so soon.

I just found it a little strange that this wasn't being presumed terrorism straight away as opposed to the Orlando shootings, for example, being instantly recognised as terrorism due to the suspect being of Afghani heritage. Slightly bigger scale mind, but still.

When dozens of people are shot inside a building I think most people begin to think terrorism is a good possibility right away. A single person killed on the street and terrorism isn't usually the first thing that comes to mind because more often than not, it's not usually terrorism.

 

[Lizard]

I read somewhere that the guy actually shouted 'put Britain first'.

How one word changes it all. He might just have been anti EU or anti aid or something.

 

[Roger the Horse]

The reports are that he shouted "Britain First". Maybe he shouted "put Britain first" and witnesses misheard or misquoted him; but all reports of him shouting anything other than "Britain First" are pure speculation, possibly from Britain First or others of their ilk who may have a vested interest in distancing themselves from this incident.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The reports are that he shouted "Britain First". Maybe he shouted "put Britain first" and witnesses misheard or misquoted him; but all reports of him shouting anything other than "Britain First" are pure speculation, possibly from Britain First or others of their ilk who may have a vested interest in distancing themselves from this incident.

So it's a definite then that he shouted Britain First and everything else is speculation?

 

[Dotini]

Reportedly she received such a mountain of hate mail that she was offered, but laughed off, protection. Really? Why??

 

[Lizard]

Reportedly she received such a mountain of hate mail that she was offered, but laughed off, protection. Really? Why??

Who is saying that?

MPs are protected in parliament but outside they can be left on their own. When I went canvasing for the election it was just me, some other supporters and the woman trying to win the seat. No bodyguards or anything.

 

[Roger the Horse]

So it's a definite then that he shouted Britain First and everything else is speculation?

It's not a definite. He might have shouted "mittens burst" and been misheard by witnesses, but the notion that he said anything other than what he was reported to have said by witnesses is purely speculation.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's not a definite. He might have shouted "mittens burst" and been misheard by witnesses, but the notion that he said anything other than what he was reported to have said by witnesses is purely speculation.

This eyewitness?

 

[TenEightyOne]

This eyewitness?

Huh? The tweet itself says he didn't hear that. At the time Cox left the library she was surrounded by her aids as she walked onto a busy street. Perhaps, and this is a guess, he's not the eyewitness who reported the killer's words to police?

In fairness to Britain First the police haven't linked them to the far-right white supremacist group that the killer is said to have had links to.

EDIT: A witness who did hear the killer say either "Britain First" or "put Britain first".

 

[Dotini]

Listening to the BBC overnight I thought I hear it reported that Cox may not have been the target of the initial assault, but may have become a target after becoming involved in another assault or altercation already in progress.

On the hate mail question, it is partially addressed in numerous press reports. These should probably be looked at in detail. She may have been doing things that angered her constituency, and sent one over the edge of madness.

"Over the past three months Mrs Cox had become the target of a hate mail campaign and was in the process of receiving additional security at her constituency office in Birstall, West Yorkshire as well as at her houseboat in London."
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...r/news-story/29abe0ca608dce0355f426297666aefd