Britain - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter Ross
  • 12,481 comments
  • 500,862 views

How will you vote in the 2019 UK General Election?

  • The Brexit Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Change UK/The Independent Group

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Conservative Party

    Votes: 3 7.5%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Labour Party

    Votes: 11 27.5%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

    Votes: 3 7.5%

  • Other Independents

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other Parties

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Spoiled Ballot

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Will Not/Cannot Vote

    Votes: 11 27.5%
  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
polysmut
John Bercow is to stand down as speaker of the house of commons and as an MP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49639828
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It's a shame, although he had put it off having said he'd go earlier this year. I think he's done a good job of not allowing the various governments to bulldoze Parliament against the will of the House. Now there'll be a Tory patsy in place, although that's what they'd hoped Bercow would be.
 
Daz555
The Tories don't have enough seats in the House.
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You're right - I hadn't seen the genius in Bercow going now. His replacement will be elected by this house, not by a post-GE house, which could well return the Tories to a majority. With the latter said the Lib Dems are promising to cancel Article 50 and are effectively a Remain vote.

Labour have said they'll *mumble mumble*
 
polysmut
they would negotiate the "best" possible version of a withdrawal agreement
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... though it is unclear how Labour can get a 'better' or even a different version of the Withdrawal Agreement to the one(s) already offered...
polysmut
then offer that versus remain in a referendum.
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...and then campaign against their own version of the deal anyway, thus there is no chance of the EU making any changes to the WA.

Labour are adopting policies that make revoking Brexit virtually impossible to avoid, while at the same time they claim to support their manifesto pledge to 'respect the result' and leave the EU. It's a flat-out contradiction, and they simply cannot go on pretending that they can be on both sides of what is a pretty black and white question. Tom Watson has today broken with Corbyn's official position and said that Labour must unequivocally back Remain... that is eminently sensible, because Corbyn and Labour's official policies are idiotic.
 
Muxlee
just looked at the poll results the Tories aint got no votes

there is no upside to this :(
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The European Parliamentary elections that the poll relates to were four months ago.
 
Muxlee
I see .... but looking at todays results from the Scottish courts it seems we are in deep trouble
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The two are not connected.

Also, there's a reason that this case was heard in the Scottish courts under Scottish law, and not the Supreme Court under British law.
 
Touring Mars
Johnson is up Brexit creek without a paddle...
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When you get the job you always wanted.

EEGk821WsAIXagG
 
Touring Mars
...and then campaign against their own version of the deal anyway, thus there is no chance of the EU making any changes to the WA.
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I wonder if they'd be able to put it to the EU that any withdrawal agreement would be an offer to the UK electorate & not to the (hypothetical Labour) government. With a guarantee that there would be a referendum on the final offer the (hypothetical Labour) government could negotiate on behalf of the country without the fact that they would campaign to remain having to be an obstacle.

It probably wouldn't clear up their position much but I think I can see some logic in there.
 
Famine
The two are not connected.

Also, there's a reason that this case was heard in the Scottish courts under Scottish law, and not the Supreme Court under British law.
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they are connected ... the reason being held up there is the English courts don't sit in August and Scottish law is equal to English law that's why we are called the united kingdom which we are not today this is serious stuff happening ... you cant go around lying the Queen it wont end well
 
Muxlee
they are connected ... the reason being held up there is the English courts don't sit in August and Scottish law is equal to English law that's why we are called the united kingdom which we are not today this is serious stuff happening ... you cant go around lying the Queen it wont end well
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Scottish Law isn't "equal" to English & Welsh Law, it just applies to a different part of the island.
 
Muxlee
they are connected ...
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There is zero connection between a GTPlanet poll of how members would have voted in an election held four months ago and an attempt in Scottish courts to halt the prorogue of Parliament.
Muxlee
the reason being held up there is the English courts don't sit in August and Scottish law is equal to English law that's why we are called the united kingdom which we are not today
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Scottish law applies in Scotland. Parliament is in London, which isn't in Scotland - although some Scottish people work there some of the time (technically an MP's place of work is their constituency office, which is in their constituency) - which is why this decision is absolutely meaningless until heard in the Supreme Court, whose decision will apply UK-wide.

Also it's September.
Muxlee
this is serious stuff happening ... you cant go around lying the Queen it wont end well
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I... don't know what any of this means.
 
polysmut
I wonder if they'd be able to put it to the EU that any withdrawal agreement would be an offer to the UK electorate & not to the (hypothetical Labour) government. With a guarantee that there would be a referendum on the final offer the (hypothetical Labour) government could negotiate on behalf of the country without the fact that they would campaign to remain having to be an obstacle.

It probably wouldn't clear up their position much but I think I can see some logic in there.
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Possible, but then what incentive would the EU have to 'improve' the deal knowing that the worse a deal they offered, the more likely it would be to be rejected, and directly leading to a complete reversal of Brexit? That would virtually guarantee that the EU would achieve their ultimate aim, which is to cancel Brexit.
 
Touring Mars
Possible, but then what incentive would the EU have to 'improve' the deal knowing that the worse a deal they offered, the more likely it would be to be rejected, and directly leading to a complete reversal of Brexit? That would virtually guarantee that the EU would achieve their ultimate aim, which is to cancel Brexit.
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Probably no incentive at all.

Which means that the very real threat of "no deal" is the only way that the EU negotiating position could change. Thus suggesting that the current prime minister is a master negotiator.
 
polysmut
Probably no incentive at all.

Which means that the very real threat of "no deal" is the only way that the EU negotiating position could change. Thus suggesting that the current prime minister is a master negotiator.
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Well, quite. As I've said before, however much I disagree with the concept of leaving with No Deal, Johnson is correct in his view that the option to leave without a deal is the only way to possibly secure a reasonable deal. That is a sorry state of affairs, but it appears to be the truth.

Hence, by legally blocking No Deal, Parliament has effectively wrecked Johnson's negotiating position and made securing anything better than May's deal virtually impossible. Unfortunately, this is having the effect of making No Brexit at all considerably more likely, which paradoxically is also fomenting more popular support for No Deal. Johnson could well lose this battle (and indeed it looks like he already has), but he could well end up winning the war if he takes up Farage's offer of an electoral pact in order to secure a No Deal Brexit via a majority Brexit coalition.
 
Touring Mars
Johnson could well lose this battle (and indeed it looks like he already has), but he could well end up winning the war if he takes up Farage's offer of an electoral pact in order to secure a No Deal Brexit via a majority Brexit coalition.
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This could spell the end of the Conservative party, and even herald the break-up of the UK.
 
Dotini
This could spell the end of the Conservative party, and even herald the break-up of the UK.
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The break-up of the UK is already on the cards if Scotland* have anything to do with it, and if NI can reform a government then perhaps they'll go down the Republican road now. The Conservative party aren't in sole power now, just as they wouldn't be in another coalition and I think they'll remain.

* EDIT: If the SNP, not necessarily Scotland
 
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I've just read the Times article and the Twitter pic was (understandably) topped and tailed. Here's some from the middle of the article:

The Times
“Providing the very best service in the UK and Ireland remains our priority but we also wish to use our expertise, knowledge and influence to help others save lives across the world, particularly in countries where drowning rates are high.”

A spokeswoman said that the institution’s founder, Sir William Hillary, had said that its work on drowning prevention should be extended to “the most remote quarters of the globe”.

The RNLI said that 2 per cent of its income was spent on overseas projects and this did not have an impact on its domestic rescue services.

Providing free crèche places reduced a child’s risk of drowning by 82 per cent, it added. The Isle of Man government announced in June that it was spending £57,855 from its international development budget to support the Bangladesh project.

In 2016 the RNLI announced that it was provided training and equipment to Greek, German, Dutch and Swedish organisations to help save migrants crossing from Turkey to Greece.
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The RNLI is also the lifeboat charity for the Republic of Ireland and always has been.

If you're only finding out now that the RNLI has operations abroad and are outraged about it then... you're an idiot. It's been going on for 97 years.
 

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