Britain - The Official Thread

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How will you vote in the 2024 UK General Election?

  • Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Labour Party

    Votes: 14 48.3%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Other Independents

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other Parties

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Spoiled Ballot

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Will Not/Cannot Vote

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Liquid
The RNLI is also the lifeboat charity for the Republic of Ireland and always has been.

If you're only finding out now that the RNLI has operations abroad and are outraged about it then... you're an idiot. It's been going on for 97 years.
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You'd also think that Times readers would be economically literate and understand how budgets work, but judging from the Most Recommended Post with 130 likes, I'm not so sure:

Reader on ToL
The RNLI seems to be going down the same virtue-signalling path as so many other charities. I am sure that the 135 losing their jobs are very happy to see where the savings from their salaries are going.
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130 whole likes? Wow. I can't think of a more obvious example of "virtue-signalling" than the people pretending to threaten to withdraw their non existent support for a charity they've never used or donated to just to make some gammonesque point to their chums about valuing British jobs over foreign lives. Clicktivism at its finest.
 
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You know how that even if they're a bit rubbish, almost every train in the last 50 years has a toilet? Well Wales wants to put an end to such absurd luxury.

On the planned improvements to the South Wales commuter lines, the new trains scheduled to be introduced will not have any toilets on board; Merthyr Tudful to Cardiff is an hour's journey. Of course, there are planned works for step-free access and better toilets at stations but that hardly seems the point. I'm sure commuters in the morning and winos on the last train back Friday nights will love it.

Yeah, they're trying to turn it into a tram service like Manchester and Sheffield but replacing a service with toilets with a service without toilets just doesn't fly. I'm sure when Manchester ripped up its first lines for trams people were cross for the same reasons but in 2019 it is simply a backwards step and a backwards way of "improving" public infrastructure and transportation. Especially when plenty of stations will remain unstaffed; how will they guarantee that station toilets won't be vandalised? Never mind the fact that if you're caught short you'll have to alight and then wait for another train.
 
HenrySwanson
You'd also think that Times readers would be economically literate and understand how budgets work,
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They send their money to Rupert Murdoch so, not so much.

Liquid
On the planned improvements to the South Wales commuter lines, the new trains scheduled to be introduced will not have any toilets on board; Merthyr Tudful to Cardiff is an hour's journey. Of course, there are planned works for step-free access and better toilets at stations but that hardly seems the point. I'm sure commuters in the morning and winos on the last train back Friday nights will love it.
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This sounds like it should be a massive disability issue.
 
You guys remember the movie: 28days later ?

Its real now HAHA :)
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Just doing some hard procrastination here on Friday afternoon.

Should a majority be more than 50% to count?

Based on the last general election results:

Of 650 MP's, 26% did not have more than 50% of the votes in their constituency... 96% did not receive votes totaling more than 50% of their constituency's electorate. Interestingly, of the 26 constituencies whose MP received votes totaling more than 50% if the electorate, 24 were won by Labour.

Of a national electorate of 46.8 million people, only 17.9 million are represented by an MP they voted for. Using simple totals, ignoring the DUP for a moment, only 13.6 million people voted for the ruling party, so that's 29.1% of the electorate gaining 48.7% of seats...

But, actually, of those 13.6 million votes, only 9.2 million were cast in constituencies were the MP belonged to the ruling party (i.e. A Tory vote in a Labour constituency doesn't effective gain a Tory seat)... so in reality, only 19.8% of votes gained 48.7% of seats.

Factoring in the DUP, only 0.5% of the electorate were responsible for them gaining the seats that allowed for the Tories to take control (327)(50.3%). So, that 9.2 million (9,261,441 to be precise) and the 218,196 from NI totalling 9,479,637 people are the only people that were actually represented by parliament (20.2%).

22,724,536 million people actively voted against those 9,479,637 peoples votes, but were effectively over-ruled, and it's true to say that 37,375,941 did not vote for the ruling party (parties) also.

I've already stated that I believe voting should be mandatory, and I also believe the FPTP system (in its current form at least), has to go... but in our current state, the concept of majorities, and proper representation of the people in parliament being more important than it has been in living memory... I sincerely hope that after Brexit, the nation turns it's anger on the system rather than on people with opposing views on the EU.




.. like I said, just procrastinating.



edit: apologies for swapping between present and past tense and/or pluralising things wrongly... I'm tired, it's Friday.
 
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UKMikey
If not, then what happens when no candidate polls 50% or more?
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The problem there is, IMHO the requirement for a candidate at all.

I think it's time to acknowledge that democracy as we imagine it isn't really reflected in our system of government, I also think it's fair to say that the way we imagine democracy is flawed anyway. It's a poor system and this is demonstrated when its limits and margins are tested.
 
Labour are continuing their long, slow implosion at the party conference: Tom Watson looks set to be voted out as Deputy Leader by a motion tabled by Momentum, the hardcore Corbinista "fringe" element that's becoming the Labour mainstream. Labour MPs in general don't seem happy. Parliament (and voters) need a strong opposition now more than ever, but Labour are still fighting this internal battle. Madness.
 
TenEightyOne
Labour are continuing their long, slow implosion at the party conference: Tom Watson looks set to be voted out as Deputy Leader by a motion tabled by Momentum, the hardcore Corbinista "fringe" element that's becoming the Labour mainstream. Labour MPs in general don't seem happy. Parliament (and voters) need a strong opposition now more than ever, but Labour are still fighting this internal battle. Madness.
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And that continued today with news leaking that one of Corbyn's closest aides is resigning having criticised the leaders offices "lack of professionalism, competence and human decency".
 
PzR Slim
And that continued today with news leaking that one of Corbyn's closest aides is resigning having criticised the leaders offices "lack of professionalism, competence and human decency".
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Meanwhile Corbyn has kaiboshed the anti-Watson motion. This begs questioning why he didn't do so earlier or if he was waiting to see which way the wind blew, not for the first time.
 
TenEightyOne
Labour are continuing their long, slow implosion at the party conference: Tom Watson looks set to be voted out as Deputy Leader by a motion tabled by Momentum, the hardcore Corbinista "fringe" element that's becoming the Labour mainstream. Labour MPs in general don't seem happy. Parliament (and voters) need a strong opposition now more than ever, but Labour are still fighting this internal battle. Madness.
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It would be funny if not for the fact that the UK needs a decent Government and a credible opposition, and right now we have neither.

The Guardian (?!) puts the problem rather succinctly...

On the eve of the Labour conference, a poll was published that gave Jeremy Corbyn a negative personal approval rating of minus 60 points – yes, you read that right, minus 60 points. These are depths of unpopularity never plumbed by any opposition leader in the more than 40 years that pollsters have been recording this figure. Even Michael Foot wasn’t that disliked by the British public in the run-up to Labour’s landslide defeat at the hands of Margaret Thatcher in 1983. To have a candidate for prime minister who is that repellent to the country is a problem for Labour, especially when it is facing a general election.

To Mr Corbyn’s allies, the answer is obvious – the deputy’s head must roll.
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Touring Mars
the fact that the UK needs a decent Government and a credible opposition, and right now we have neither.
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Is this really true?
Isn't it arguable that the best government is little-to-no government, and the permanent civil service, defense and financial establishments are carrying on just fine?
 
Touring Mars
It would be funny if not for the fact that the UK needs a decent Government and a credible opposition, and right now we have neither.

The Guardian (?!) puts the problem rather succinctly...
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Impossible to tell the Corbynistas that however. I had a couple of 'discussions' on twitter with Corbyn fans over the weekend and they still think he's going to lead us all to the promised land. It's depressing.
 
Dotini
Isn't it arguable that the best government is little-to-no government, and the permanent civil service, defense and financial establishments are carrying on just fine?
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Perhaps, but while we have the system we have its essential that it works in the interest of those who voted representatives into the Parliament. The rights and wrongs of the British system are for another day, perhaps recent events have brought that day closer. For now the country has a potential crisis on its hands (and we still don't know exactly what form that crisis might evolve into next) and it seems that neither HM's Government or the official Opposition have enough internal direction to collectively face each other properly.
 
MatskiMonk
It's depressing that anyone can believe any of the major parties are fit for purpose.
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Absolutely. For the first time in my life as a voter I don't think there is anyone I can get behind. It's all just so extreme. Country will be divided for generations no matter what ends up happening.
 
PzR Slim
Absolutely. For the first time in my life as a voter I don't think there is anyone I can get behind. It's all just so extreme. Country will be divided for generations no matter what ends up happening.
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I'll be generally appalled if we carry on after Brexit with no changes to our political, governmental and parliamentary systems.

I find myself in a similar situation too. I should vote Liberal democrat, because they're quite closely aligned to my views on the political compass... but it feels like a protest vote, or a proxy-referendum vote, and I'm becoming vehemently opposed to the idea of single issue votes deciding the entire government... so I actually feel compelled to vote green as a genuine protest vote... which I fully admit, is a bit ridiculous. Since I also live in one of the safest Tory seats I know it won't matter anyway - it's so bloody frustrating. I don't even really care about Brexit anymore, I just want fundamental ground up change to the system, not just the people.
 
MatskiMonk
I just want fundamental ground up change to the system, not just the people.
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If you are serious about fundamental ground up change to the system and to the people, then you must DESTROY and wipe away the old system to make way for the new.
 
Dotini
If you are serious about fundamental ground up change to the system and to the people, then you must DESTROY and wipe away the old system to make way for the new.
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Much as I like the revolutionary sound of that, it's only half a plan. The 'new' needs to be established, planned, tested amended and agreed by the people prior to implementation. An anarchic power vacuum would not be to the benefit of the people.
 
MatskiMonk
Much as I like the revolutionary sound of that, it's only half a plan. The 'new' needs to be established, planned, tested amended and agreed by the people prior to implementation. An anarchic power vacuum would not be to the benefit of the people.
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You need to have a vision, a plan, a strong-willed and well-bankrolled organization. Then you use charm, deceit, and force to get it done.
 

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