British Cars

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Both the ideas of "all British cars will fall apart because they were built improperly" and "British engineers are responsible for these great cars from x country" are contrived statements from the likes of Clarkson to make ignorant generalizations based on trends from the 1970's and promote national pride, respectively. Less so the second one (Brits are certainly known make great race cars), but it annoys me how the statement seems to ignore the significant amount of parts and expertise that tend to from the original country and just how common it is for companies to outsource and reuse. This also goes for modern production cars. The V12's in Aston Martins are basically two Ford Duratec V6's welded together and it's no secret how German Rolls Royce and Bentley are.
 
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Just to bash back maz,

maseratis : also the built quality is not superbe, Electronic as in most italian are annoying to say at least. And Mas loose huge value after touching the road once.

For Brittish : Vince's post is a good exemple of very cool Uk creations. They are not all great, some lack built quality, but generalizing is just wrong. The same I did above.
 
Both the ideas of "all British cars will fall apart because they were built improperly" and "British engineers are responsible for these great cars from x country" are contrived statements from the likes of Clarkson to make ignorant generalizations based on trends from the 1970's and promote national pride, respectively. Less so the second one (Brits are certainly known make great race cars), but it annoys me how the statement seems to ignore the significant amount of parts and expertise that tend to from the original country and just how common it is for companies to outsource and reuse.

All the examples I used above were no more or less accurate than they needed to be and absolutely nothing to do with Clarkson-like generalisation. The MX5 really was built at the prototype stage by a small company in Essex (it was also influenced by several British sports cars, the concept imagined by an American journalist called Bob Hall and built by the Japanese), the GT40 really was developed by Lola in Slough (designed in the UK, built in the States with an American engine and raced by several nationalities) and the Shelby Cobra really wouldn't exist had Caroll Shelby not rather liked the AC Ace.

They all had plenty of input from elsewhere as you'd expect but they're all examples of supposedly "crappy" British engineering.

It's the concept of all British cars for some reason being rubbish that I object to, rather than someone preferring the cars of another country. There's nothing partisan about it and I'd be equally as irritated if someone came out and said "all American cars are crap".

This also goes for modern production cars. The V12's in Aston Martins are basically two Ford Duramax V6's welded together

Poor example. First, Duramax is a Chevy diesel engine used in trucks (corrected while I was typing). Secondly, the engine you're referring to, the Duratec V6, was jointly developed in the UK and Germany. Thirdly, the V12 Aston engine, while co-developed with Ford, is a long way from being two Duratecs joined at the crank, though admittedly it is still being assembled in Germany.

That, and like anything else, the engine is only one aspect of a car. The Elise and Evora currently use Toyota engines, but it doesn't mean the rest of the car is badly developed.

With regards to Rolls and Bentley, they're undoubtedly excellent cars now, but then there's never been a point where that hasn't been the case anyway... and they managed to last for a hundred years or so before they were bought by German companies, so they must have been doing something right.
 
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The XJ series 1 has one of the best fronts ever made.
 
And still one of the best cars ever made in terms of ride quality, according to those in the know.
 
I don't know a thing when it comes to the engineering aspect of cars, but I really love the styling of Aston Martins, Lotus and Mini...
 
homeforsummer
They all had plenty of input from elsewhere as you'd expect but they're all examples of supposedly "crappy" British engineering.

It's the concept of all British cars for some reason being rubbish that I object to, rather than someone preferring the cars of another country. There's nothing partisan about it and I'd be equally as irritated if someone came out and said "all American cars are crap".

That, and like anything else, the engine is only one aspect of a car. The Elise and Evora currently use Toyota engines, but it doesn't mean the rest of the car is badly developed.

With regards to Rolls and Bentley, they're undoubtedly excellent cars now, but then there's never been a point where that hasn't been the case anyway... and they managed to last for a hundred years or so before they were bought by German companies, so they must have been doing something right.

Good points. They do a much better job at illustrating my point than my own.

For the record, I never dissed British cars or engineering, I quite like them (Damn you, Lucas) I'm against saying a car is from ____ because ____ critical part was done here.
 
And still one of the best cars ever made in terms of ride quality, according to those in the know.

👍

Rebuild one with series 3 drivetrain, x300 v12, and you have such an awesome classic. I worked on those things for 4 years, and test driving them ment taking the car for a week guzzling gas on charge of my boss. My best job ever.

But to add to the discussion, all the car owners with a Jaguar from the early 60's up to the late builds of the Series 3, had a extra car, just in case the Big Kitty vehicle had a bad morning.
 
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Say what you want about British cars, but I think they're very soulful. I quite like them. They seem to have personalities of their own - you won't mistake them for anything else! Whether you view 'personality' as your Elise driving around corners like the earth has 2.5x gravity or because your Jaguar's electronics pack up every time it rains, is up to individual discretion I suppose, but all the same...
 
Boy oh boy, just because you had an argument over how cars that are 'glued' together are rubbish you must create a thread just for the sake of bashing directly towards british cars? :odd: Not the way to go mate...

Saying the Jaguar XF is the only non-crap brit motor is actually blasphemy: AM DBS, AMV8 Vantage, Jaguar XK-R, Jaguar XJ, Caterham Superlight, Lotus Evora and Exige, Range Rover, Ginetta G40, Noble M600, Ariel Atom, McLaren MP4-12C, Morgan Aeromax and the list goes on and on...
 
*gets popcorn to watch the europeans argue over the crap*

we've ALL had failcars at some point, gentlemen. every one of you has dealt with america's failcar, Chrysler. i read some of the reports of Chrysler's efforts from ten years ago. WHY Mercedes didn't think to de-content the damn things for the European market, I'll never know.

British fail? not taking the cold into account (and you keep forgetting to flip the controlls, mate)
Italian fail? not taking cold and WET into account
German fail? not taking the lower classes into account (they are still rich people's cars!)
i don't have to tell you the french fail

Universal fail: not taking any OTHER market into account

we're all finally learning automotive lessons in the Information age.
oh, I think the biggest "clean it up lesson" ever learned was when YANKS bought half of the remaining brits (we humiliated ourselves with GM and Chr bankrupting out, so...)

on a brighter note, the Commercials for the 500 finally popped up even out here in the boonies.
 
This thread is stupid, trolls will troll I guess.

, said the troll...

Anyway...

I feel like i should tidy up my First post:

1. Apologies to Jaguar for calling their cars rubbish
2. I don't think ALL British caRs are rubbish, just the older ones made by 'bargain' manufacturers.
3. I respect that some old British cars are good (E-Types, Morgans etc.)

And the other stuff:

4. I only class manufacturers such as Bentley to be German, because they are ONWNED by the Germans.

5.I undersatnd that Italian cars aren't the first word in interior fit-and-finish, but they sure aren't built from (alot of) glue and plastic.
 
What do you have against glue and plastic? It's better than being built by a tractor manufacturer.

OWNED btw, not onwned...

'Bargain' manufacturers? Care to explain this foot in mouth comment?
 
2. I don't think ALL British caRs are rubbish, just the older ones made by 'bargain' manufacturers.

Like which ones, for example?

4. I only class manufacturers such as Bentley to be German, because they are ONWNED by the Germans.

Is Lamborghini German too? Did it used to be American?

5.I undersatnd that Italian cars aren't the first word in interior fit-and-finish, but they sure aren't built from (alot of) glue and plastic.

If they were ment to be cheap and very light, they probably would be.
 
What do you have against glue and plastic? It's better than being built by a tractor manufacturer.

OWNED btw, not onwned...

'Bargain' manufacturers? Care to explain this foot in mouth comment?

Glue-and-plastic looks tacky, feels tacky and sounds tacky.

Bargain manufacturers, such as Austin, who built cheap cars for the general public.
 
You know carbon fibre is essentially glue and plastic right? :lol:
 
Glue-and-plastic looks tacky, feels tacky and sounds tacky.

If it works, and it does. What's the problem?

Bargain manufacturers, such as Austin, who built cheap cars for the general public.

In what way are Fiat, makers of cheap cars for the general public, any different to Austin? Is the Fiat 500 a better car than the Austin Mini?
 
Sorry but whilst i've been reading through this thread, i can't help but think why nobody has mentioned the likes of Lancia or Alfa Romeo? I didn't realise they was perfect in every way? Every country makes some sort of budget car so people who purely use them for getting from A to B can drive a safe car, right?
 
You know carbon fibre is essentially glue and plastic right? :lol:

If it works, and it does. What's the problem?



In what way are Fiat, makers of cheap cars for the general public, any different to Austin? Is the Fiat 500 a better car than the Austin Mini?

I can see you're just going to keep arguing with me, so...

I PERSONALLY dislike British Cars, for many PERSONAL reasons. Although, i do PERSONALLY like Italian (and german and Japanese) cars. I can't expalin why, it's just my PERSONAL feelings. So, before you reply, think about that; It doesn't matter how much you try to 'sell' the idea of british cars being good, i just don't like them. Reading back though, i feel like i should apologise to other members for the quote made in my first post. "British Cars Are Crap", i really shoudln't have said that, it is very opinionated and biased, so sorry.

Now, stealing an idea from Richard Hammond, i am now holding my breath... :D
 
Your personal reasons are based in rubbish but it's your opinion, one question...why create this thread when you're obviously going to get an argument? Trollololololol

I PERSONALLY dislike specific brands, not countries. That's just a poor nationalistic argument.
 
Your personal reasons are based in rubbish but it's your opinion, one question...why create this thread when you're obviously going to get an argument? Trollololololol

I wanted to express my apologies to any members among us who were JLR fans. But then a flame war broke out. And how can you possibly call my own personal preferences rubbish? that is the biggest example of Trollolololololoing here.:yuck:
 
I can see you're just going to keep arguing with me, so...

I PERSONALLY dislike British Cars, for many PERSONAL reasons. Although, i do PERSONALLY like Italian (and german and Japanese) cars. I can't expalin why, it's just my PERSONAL feelings. So, before you reply, think about that; It doesn't matter how much you try to 'sell' the idea of british cars being good, i just don't like them. Reading back though, i feel like i should apologise to other members for the quote made in my first post. "British Cars Are Crap", i really shoudln't have said that, it is very opinionated and biased, so sorry.

If you don't want your PERSONAL opinions questioned, don't post them on an open web forum :rolleyes:

No one is trying to 'sell' the idea of British cars to you - we simply want to hear the rational thinking behind your opinions. So far we haven't seen any evidence of that.
 
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