Broadband speed

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gamewarrior14

gamewarrior14

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game-warrior14
Does the speed of your broadband effect you in a race online?
I have a low speed but unsure if people with fast connections are at an advantage.
What do you think?
 
gamewarrior14
Does the speed of your broadband effect you in a race online?
I have a low speed but unsure if people with fast connections are at an advantage.
What do you think?
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Sort of. In order of importance:

How far apart everyone in the room is
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Upload speed


Download speed is irrelevant so long as you're better than dialup.
 
phil_75
^What does that mean, upload speed is important?
Click to expand...

Eventually it is, yes. Got to send that data out quick.

Once download speeds are over 500 kbps, it's irrelevant what the download is - keep an eye on how much data you download during an hour of GT5 only (with nothing else going on) and you'll find it's not very much. However, if you have only 500kbps down it's not likely you'll be running a good upload speed - probably no better than a quarter of that - and your gaming experience may suffer (while you're blaming your download speed).

But it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list. It's all* about the ping and it's all about not your Pingtest ping but your ping to the guys actually in the room. This is why geography - or at the very least the tele-geography - is important.


For quick reference, for me:
Leeds: 3.69Mbps down, 0.36Mbps up, 67ms Ping
Paris: 3.70Mbps down, 0.35Mbps up, 57ms Ping
Tampere: 3.80Mbps down, 0.37Mbps up, 84ms Ping
New York: 3.71Mbps down, 0.36Mbps up, 114ms Ping
San Francisco: 3.69Mbps down, 0.36Mbps up, 184ms Ping
Canberra: 3.65Mbps down, 0.32Mbps up, 339ms Ping
Christchurch: 3.62Mbps down, 0.30Mbps up, 332ms Ping

Guess who I have trouble playing with? :D

*Okay, not all, just very much so
 
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phil_75
^What does that mean, upload speed is important?
Click to expand...

If you're upload speed is poor you won't be able to upload your input/position etc. data to the host so you lag everywhere then DC. 👍

Trust me I've had it happen twice in the Lotus Elise Club Cup when we were getting 0.02mbps upload for some reason. :rolleyes:
 
gamewarrior14
Does the speed of your broadband effect you in a race online?
I have a low speed but unsure if people with fast connections are at an advantage.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Yes upload speed is very important. Its pretty much the deciding factor to your online experience. If your upload is poor, nothing else matters.
I recommend checking out http://www.speedtest.net/ and let us know your download and upload speed. Its free and only takes a few seconds.
 
What is a good upload speed?or good enough anyway.mine pulled 800 kbps on the PS3's speedtest.
 
More is better, really. You don't want to be going much lower than 0.25Mbps.

(and remember, that's BITS, not BYTES - a 1.0Mbps download "speed" takes 8s to download 1MB).
 
sik180sx
What is a good upload speed?or good enough anyway.mine pulled 800 kbps on the PS3's speedtest.
Click to expand...
It really depends on the game. Some games you will be ok with 800kbs upload. Others you will have massive problems. Some games require a very very good connection. Halo 3 co-op campaign was very demanding. GRAW 2 multiplayer was another one. If you didnt have an outstanding connection, your experience with those games was misreable. People blamed the games but it really was their connection. This happens all the time. People instantly blame the games without knowing their own connection.

The most innovative feature that GRAW 2 had was the ability to tell you how many you could host. Thats how I found out I needed to upgrade my internet. Every time I hosted a room it said I could only support 6 players. And that was back when I had around 5 megs download and only about 500kb upload. It was nowehre near enough. So I called and doubled my connection. 10megs download 1 meg upload. Then I could host 16 player games. Now several years later after the company upgraded their speed, I have 25 megs download and 3 megs upload. Its rare I ever have problems with any game. If I do, its more than likely the server for that game. EA servers are known for issues.
 
My download is 0.8 mbps.
And upload is 0.3 - 0.4.
I dont often suffer online on gt5 unless a computer is on then i lag abit.
Thanks for the help greatly apreciated.
XD
 
Another thing to do and sometimes is often overlooked, ensure that ALL other electronics that draw a signal, ie: computers, IPads/IPhones, wireless devices and even cable boxes (if cable internet). This will ensure the max. signal at the time of going online. When I am about to start a series race, I ensure they are all off. Of course, this is not always possible due to family life.

Also, do not have any of your electronics downloading files from your service provider either, this will more than likely bounce you off the server.
 
I do want to point out that latency is much more important than throughput. Please, don't fret over how Mbps up or down. Pint latency and packet collisions are much more important.

And to the OP, people with faster connections are not at an advantage. They won't be faster on the track. If you have a poor connection, either you'll get dropped, or everyone will have a bad time.

It is not clear if having the person with the best connection hosting the room makes a difference.
 
Vol Jbolaz
I do want to point out that latency is much more important than throughput. Please, don't fret over how Mbps up or down. Pint latency and packet collisions are much more important.

And to the OP, people with faster connections are not at an advantage. They won't be faster on the track. If you have a poor connection, either you'll get dropped, or everyone will have a bad time.

It is not clear if having the person with the best connection hosting the room makes a difference.
Click to expand...
Upload and download speed are the building blocks for online gaming. The foundation. If your upload and download speeds are poor from your Internet Provider, nothing else in the world is going to make your online experience magically better. I dont care where you live, what equipment you use, if your are a millionaire. If your upload and download speeds are slow from your IP, there is nothing you can do until your IP is improved. If you have .001kbps download and .001kbps upload, nothing will make that an enjoyable online experience.

The person with the best connection hosting the room does indeed make a huge difference. If the host is carrying everyone, they need to have a really good connection. That can easily be proven in any online game. I have a couple friends on my friends list that know they have a poor connection. If they host, its misreable for everyone. We either get dropped or have massive lag.
 
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But then even if you have awesome upload and download speeds, your online experience will be a shocker if you have a poor ping. Don't see many gamers from Diego Garcia or McMurdo for this reason.

But even if yours is fine, GT5 is peer-to-peer. That means your gaming experience is only as good as the weakest link in your lobby. Your upload and download count for nothing if he's running dialup.
 
CAMAROBOY69
Upload and download speed are the building blocks for online gaming. The foundation. If your upload and download speeds are poor from your Internet Provider, nothing else in the world is going to make your online experience magically better. I dont care where you live, what equipment you use, if your are a millionaire. If your upload and download speeds are slow from your IP, there is nothing you can do until your IP is improved. If you have .001kbps download and .001kbps upload, nothing will make that an enjoyable online experience.

The person with the best connection hosting the room does indeed make a huge difference. If the host is carrying everyone, they need to have a really good connection. That can easily be proven in any online game. I have a couple friends on my friends list that know they have a poor connection. If they host, its misreable for everyone. We either get dropped or have massive lag.
Click to expand...

This game doesn't demand a very high throughput. We aren't moving images, just vectors. Your throughput is not your bottleneck.

Latency is a potential bottleneck. This game isn't moving much data around, but all of that data is very time sensitive. If it takes you too long to get a packet to a destination, then your packet will be ignored. Hop count, network traffic, and packet collision can all lead to low ping rates. It doesn't matter if you can push 30 Mbps up and down, if your ping rate is 500 ms, you will get dropped.

As to the person with the best connection carrying everyone? I'm sorry, but have you seen some documentation from PD that no one else has? There is no proof that this game uses a centralized networking model. I find it unlikely that it does. It would be faster, safer, and lead to the possibility of better gaming experiences if the networking model were distributed. Again, we can only speculate. Personal experience though doesn't give any credence to the host making a difference.
 
Vol Jbolaz
Personal experience though doesn't give any credence to the host making a difference.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I've got pretty weak throughput (but a darn good ping) and I've hosted rooms with 12 people with absolutely no issues. Quality was good. No lag. Even the voice chat was clear.

I actually have more problems if I am some distance down the line, though, even when there is a host with a very solid 45 Mbps up/down connection. I have a feeling that, at least with regards to voice chat, GT5 gives some preference to those who have connected to a room first.
 
Apmaddock
Agreed. I've got pretty weak throughput (but a darn good ping) and I've hosted rooms with 12 people with absolutely no issues. Quality was good. No lag. Even the voice chat was clear.

I actually have more problems if I am some distance down the line, though, even when there is a host with a very solid 45 Mbps up/down connection. I have a feeling that, at least with regards to voice chat, GT5 gives some preference to those who have connected to a room first.
Click to expand...

I've been in a room where two people couldn't see each other. We changed hosts, and they still couldn't see each other, even after leaving and rejoining. We all moved to a public lounge and those two drivers still couldn't see each other.

I really think the game's network paradigm is distributed.

I suspect that the voice server is a separate program, I'm just not sure where it is running. Is it running on a PS3, or is it running on one of the Qriocity servers. I don't know. But your experience is interesting.
 
Vol Jbolaz
I've been in a room where two people couldn't see each other. We changed hosts, and they still couldn't see each other, even after leaving and rejoining. We all moved to a public lounge and those two drivers still couldn't see each other.

I really think the game's network paradigm is distributed.

I suspect that the voice server is a separate program, I'm just not sure where it is running. Is it running on a PS3, or is it running on one of the Qriocity servers. I don't know. But your experience is interesting.
Click to expand...

Setting up a DMZ or opening ports does wonders for the first problem–just make sure that your router and your modem/router (if it's configured as such) are both set up that way. Even if you have NAT Type 2 you may need to go through that process. (I know it's not you, Vol, but I figured this info could further the public awareness.)

The second bit is more annoying than anything. Typically I can hear all other chat just fine, but when a room is full my voice won't upload. I've got about 650k upload speed, and that doesn't seem to be the problem. Interestingly, neither does the number of people in the room. It just seems to be caused by certain other members of the room. I don't know what kind of connection might be causing the problem, but once one person or another drops, even if their spot is taken over by someone else, I'll no longer have issues.
 
as has been written, latency (ping) is the most important component of a good online experience.

DL/UL speeds above the speed of dial up are fine and any higher is not any better.

latency is one of the reasons satellite internet is a very poor choice for online gaming eventhough DL/UL speeds are more than adequate. Physics is a b1tch, it simply takes 500ms for the signal to travel from your house to the bird in the sky.

finally, whether your ISP gives you a public IP address or not will depend on whether you can achieve NAT2 or better. if you are being doubled NATTED by your ISP (you will have a private WAN side IP address on your ISPs network) there is *nothing* you can do to get out of NAT3 short of contacting them and (for an additional fee) getting them to give you a public IP. Some ISPs will do this, some will not.

finally part II: GT5 employs a Peer-to-Peer model however, it is slightly different when in a FIXED HOST room. The host almost acts like a game server to a degree in that some data flows through the host and out to the people in the room. This becomes evident when people you see online that will have the infamous 'loading bars/not visible on track' in non-fixed host rooms (likely because the connection between you and them is too poor) will appear on the track in the fixed host room (likely because the connection goes from them to the host to you and vicey versa [ie. an in between). I have observed this many times and none of you will convince me otherwise. :) Fixed Host rooms fix many issues.
 
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Regarding GT5's network and that linked article:

I'm fairly certain that finishes are time stamped, rather than based on what you actually see. Evidence for this comes when you watch the finishers come in or watch a replay. Sometimes the time will say X:XX.XXX for a few seconds, before changing to a very slightly different number. I've a feeling this is an initial response followed by the actual, corroborated final time.

And yes. Satellite internet is absolutely horrible for gaming. I had it at one point and can back that up. In my experience, though, it was actually pretty terrible for absolutely everything.
 
Apmaddock, says you are in rural nebraska what are your options of high speed?

I'm in rural Ontario and I'm basically limited to Satellite and Wireless (3G/4G [ie. Cell Signals). The latter of which works well enough except that I cannot get out of NAT3 (private WAN side IP).
 
esoxhntr
Apmaddock, says you are in rural nebraska what are your options of high speed?
Click to expand...

Not much. In fact, I've spent a lot of time in the last couple of months getting everything that I could out of what I've got.

Basically I can have dial-up, satellite, or wireless. DSL stops about a mile from my house, as the crow flies.

I had satellite, but found that dial-up actually worked better for gaming. Sad. I know.

Now I've got wireless. I've upgraded it several times over the last few years. It went from 2G, which was miserably inconsistent and required frequently resetting my modem, etc. to 4G (ISP says 5G…right…). This 4G has been much, much better. I've had NAT Type 2 from the start, it will stay logged onto the PSN basically without interruption, and the ping has been great:



The upload speed is the biggest hurdle, and it occasionally causes me to lose the ability to speak…or at least be heard…online.

The big upside to this provider is their customer service. Not only have I been given discounts for being a customer of theirs for as long as I have, but they are willing to help as they can. They used to have a resident gamer who opened some ports for me on the 2G system. When I upgraded to 4G, he was gone, but I did not know that and emailed him, anyway. What I got back when I asked for the ports to be opened again was an email from another guy saying that the gamer didn't work with them anymore, but this guy went ahead and put my modem/router in a DMZ. Great!

I put my PS3 in a DMZ on my router, and things have been great, since. I have not had a single problem with never-ending loading screens or not seeing people in-game since I did that.

I would also have the option of upgrading my service yet further, with higher speeds and whatnot. I could even get a business class connection with them which gives my connection priority through the radio, but I have noticed little traffic most of the time. Of course, all of that would come at a price, and I'm already paying more than I should for the privilege of online gaming. ;)

If you're interested, this connection also gives me HD quality when I'm streaming Netflix. So that keeps me happy, too.
 
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so i am running 12 down 2-3 upload

and do mostly online racing
fixed and non fixed host
and lobbies here most recently

and im freezing entirely to much with that setup

i clear cache every other day
usually rooms are are not full (5-9 pple)

the freezing happens at all differnet times
i can mostly trigger it when changing tracks
but recently it will happen when im tuning , changing other settings, and so on


ive called playstation, and they couldnt help me

i have nat2 with very high signal

thanks in advance for help
 
Connection speed seems to matter very little for gt5.
Reliability and quality seem to matter more.

If someone else in your household, on the same internet connection, is streaming movies, or uploading or downloading heavily, or skype or playing another game while you're racing - it won't matter how fast your connection is, you're going to lag.

Being connected via a wireless network seems to be a big problem for people - regardless of their connection speed.

As far as I know, the "host" at the top only really matters in terms of "compatibility". In other words, sometimes the host will have incompatibility with another person, and if that person is at the top as host, the other won't be able to join the lounge. Or, there will be invisible car problems.
I don't think the host matters in terms of lagging issues.

Vol Jbolaz
I've been in a room where two people couldn't see each other. We changed hosts, and they still couldn't see each other, even after leaving and rejoining. We all moved to a public lounge and those two drivers still couldn't see each other.
Click to expand...

Was it fixed-host or mics disabled?

I have found that disabling mics in the lounge sometimes helps with invisible car issues.

Last resort is a pub lobby with fixed host status - usually completely solves the invisible car problem.

In my experience, the invisible car problem is usually occurring when at least one of the parties with the invisible car problem is on a wireless network. (irregardless of having a mic or not)
 
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juicy2
and im freezing entirely to much with that setup
Click to expand...

Freezing is an entirely different issue. More likely this is a problem with your PS3 than the game or network. Try some sort of restore and back up your info. I'd be afraid of an oncoming YLOD.

watermelonpunch
As far as I know, the "host" at the top only really matters in terms of "compatibility". In other words, sometimes the host will have incompatibility with another person, and if that person is at the top as host, the other won't be able to join the lounge. Or, there will be invisible car problems.
I don't think the host matters in terms of lagging issues.
Click to expand...

I agree with this in entirety, and have seen it in action.
 

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